Europe yes or no

switchlogic:

Carryfast:
The fact is it’s the EU that has everything to lose in that situation while we can only win.

My god you do live in some sort of weird alternative reality don’t you? Are you really daft enough to believe that? The reality is they couldn’t care less, we’d be nothing more than an annoying pimple on their arse you poor deluded man.

In which case Merkel would be saying that instead of whining about the possibility of us leaving the whole scam.So how can we lose in a situation in which we’re in a trade deficit situation with the EU.The reality is we’re paying for the privilege of being a net importer of goods from the EU countries.

Dennisthemenace:

Carryfast:

Saaamon:

crispie:
Luke has it spot on Cameron has pulled a blinder, if you do not vote Consevative at the next election and they dont get in any referendum vanishes. Certainly UKIP will not offer one, and Milliband has not the balls to go for one.
For me personally its stay in and challenge from a postion of strength if we move away the doors will close. The company I work for still manufacture in the UK and we export over 60% into Europe, Germany is our main market and ship at least 1-2 trucks per week, in fact some of you on here may be shipping for us as i write this, we are owned by an American firm and if the UK pull out i can see them looking to move to mainland Europe where the main market is for us, and the repercussions on 400 workforce.
As for Norway and Switzerland they also pay a lot of money to Europe without having any say in any regulations or laws passed that still affect them so that they can trade easily.
We are a successful European company it just so happened we are based in the UK.
What does get up my nose is the constant cry of “we dont make anything any more in the UK” if more of our politicians visited companies like ours they would see that “MADE IN UK” is still a fantastic brand in Europe.
Don’t forget you guys and girls driving those trucks all over the UK and Europe without the influence of Europe right or wrong do you prefer the nice Volvo, Scania’s, MAN, Merc’s etc than the old GB Atkinson’s, AEC, ERF’s as if it was not for the “foreign” makers bringing the industry into the 21st century and being part of Europe where would we be.
Sorry for going on for so long
Anyway by the time comes to vote i will be happily retired living in New Zealand. :smiley: :slight_smile: :laughing:
Good luck for 2013

Well said!

More like Norway and Swiss are mugs adhering to EU regs and paying the EU for the privilege of trading with it.We’d actually be in a much stronger position than Norway and Switzerland if we’re out because we’ve got a massive trade deficit with the EU to start with.In our case all we need to do is tell the EU to get stuffed we’re not paying for the privilege of importing stuff from them that we could be making for ourselves and if they want a trade war then bring it on.The fact is it’s the EU that has everything to lose in that situation while we can only win.

Britain would be nothing without Europe. Sad, but true.

The British economy was much stronger before we joined and all joining did was to turn a trade surplus with europe into a deficit with the addition of paying massive amounts of money in the form of contributions for the privilege.

Carryfast:

switchlogic:

Carryfast:
The fact is it’s the EU that has everything to lose in that situation while we can only win.

My god you do live in some sort of weird alternative reality don’t you? Are you really daft enough to believe that? The reality is they couldn’t care less, we’d be nothing more than an annoying pimple on their arse you poor deluded man.

In which case Merkel would be saying that instead of whining about the possibility of us leaving the whole scam.So how can we lose in a situation in which we’re in a trade deficit situation with the EU.The reality is we’re paying for the privilege of being a net importer of goods from the EU countries.

Didn’t say we would lose, it’s only a childish competition to you not the rest of us. Just said most of Europe isn’t that bothered if we stay or go.

switchlogic:

Carryfast:

switchlogic:

Carryfast:
The fact is it’s the EU that has everything to lose in that situation while we can only win.

My god you do live in some sort of weird alternative reality don’t you? Are you really daft enough to believe that? The reality is they couldn’t care less, we’d be nothing more than an annoying pimple on their arse you poor deluded man.

In which case Merkel would be saying that instead of whining about the possibility of us leaving the whole scam.So how can we lose in a situation in which we’re in a trade deficit situation with the EU.The reality is we’re paying for the privilege of being a net importer of goods from the EU countries.

Didn’t say we would lose, it’s only a childish competition to you not the rest of us. Just said most of Europe isn’t that bothered if we stay or go.

Not a childish competition just hoping that finally the mug British population will get it’s head out of the sand and realise that they’ve been ripped off big time ever since they allowed a bunch of big business supporting tory tossers to take us into the EEC/EU on the bs basis that we’d be a lot worse off outside of it.Which goes against every one of the figures which we’ve paid into the scam and the comparison of the trade figures with europe before and since we joined.

Yes, in your opinion.

I voted against joining the then “Common Market” in the 1975 referendum and my view hasn’t changed to date!All those years ago the idea was sold to us,by “grocer” Ted Heath as purely a “Common market” nothing more than that.Now look what it has stealthy morphed into over the years,all but a united Superstate with the constituent 27 members becoming “regions” and gradually losing their independence.With regards to the Euro,we have Gordon Brown to thank for keeping us out,but it had nothing to do with “sound economics” and more to do with him being at “loggerheads” with that ■■■■■■ Blair who would have had us join the doomed currency at any cost,but because he was for it Brown was 'agin it ! What a state we’d have been in now if we had joined the Euro,but Clegg and his pals,although keeping a low profile at the moment would have us join the Euro to-morrow if they could,talk about “lemmings over the cliff” !! We have been “net” contributors since we joined,just imagine what use we could have made of all those Billions if we’d kept them here and not “■■■■■■■ them away to Brussels over the years.As for the scaremongering about all the UK jobs that would be lost if we left,that is bollox pure and simple,we could and should be free to trade with the World,and don’t worry the Germans and Frogs will still want to sell us their goods as we are one of their largest customers and those “gentlemen” have no sentiment when it comes to trading with whoever they can!! IMHO we’d be better served in leaving and just becoming a trading partner and don’t forget that the Germans will always want to be “top dog” in the EU and the French don’t like us full stop as we have either hammered them in long distant wars over the years or helped to save them in two World wars,they just want to keep us at “arms length” and we will,mark my words,just become an offshore appendage of the EU the same as Ireland has become.We have nothing whatsoever in common with mainland Europe either socially or econonically and never will have in the long term I believe.IMO Cameron is just as bigger ■■■■ as Blair was,and I’ve voted conservative all my life,but no more ! Cheers Bewick.

Winseer:
It’s more post-thatcherism. We have to live in the reality that is the mess created by previous generations of politicians, especially Thatcher.

Ford, on the other hand, wasn’t going to be signing up to the “underpay employees, and let them top-up their lifestyle shortfalls with debt” system pushed upon society by the zionist faction.

0

“Supply creates it’s own demand”
(Say’s Law)

and

“If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you.”
(Samuel Clemens)

seem more appropriate things to consider here.

Supply doesn’t create it’s own demand.

what ya man say was on about was if you supply something and make money, then you use that money to go and demand something

“Resounding” is the result here is it not? :astonished:

We’d be in a “position of strength” if we left the Eurozone, then got begged to re-join, which of course we’d only do dictating our own terms.
Threatening to leave won’t cut it. Do the deed, and then watch the panic on the continent…
There’s no way that Germany and France can shoulder the parasitic nature of the other states without a third set of contributions coming from blighty.

The rest of Europe in the Med zone wouldn’t give a monkeys of course, but the east would (nowhere to go to flood the labour market anymore) the North would mind (set our own crude export levels, undercutting the rest) and the centre, France & Germany especially would petulantly attempt to upset our apple cart in a trade war or three, trying to make us regret having left.

How’s Iceland coming along by the way? Strange how there’s nothing in the news about their recovery eh?
They are not walking around with barrels around them after all, which is what one might expect of a country effectively going bust…

I have no interest in the UK being “at the heart of Europe” ie join the united states of Europe where we are just a offshore minor state in the bigger picture of the future to come.
On the other side, I wouldn’t mind seeing a united states of England emerge, seeing as they’ve already agreed to adopt our language (surely the hardest step to sell the euro electorate, but already done nonetheless…) The UK would have a much bigger administrative job of running Europe in this scenario, what with our previous experience of running an empire and all. Of course, the Germans and Italians also have “empire” experience too, but they can be re-labelled “won’t pay” and “can’t pay” in the great future of things.

Bewick:
I voted against joining the then “Common Market” in the 1975 referendum and my view hasn’t changed to date!All those years ago the idea was sold to us,by “grocer” Ted Heath as purely a “Common market” nothing more than that.Now look what it has stealthy morphed into over the years,all but a united Superstate with the constituent 27 members becoming “regions” and gradually losing their independence.With regards to the Euro,we have Gordon Brown to thank for keeping us out,but it had nothing to do with “sound economics” and more to do with him being at “loggerheads” with that ■■■■■■ Blair who would have had us join the doomed currency at any cost,but because he was for it Brown was 'agin it ! What a state we’d have been in now if we had joined the Euro,but Clegg and his pals,although keeping a low profile at the moment would have us join the Euro to-morrow if they could,talk about “lemmings over the cliff” !! We have been “net” contributors since we joined,just imagine what use we could have made of all those Billions if we’d kept them here and not “■■■■■■■ them away to Brussels over the years.As for the scaremongering about all the UK jobs that would be lost if we left,that is bollox pure and simple,we could and should be free to trade with the World,and don’t worry the Germans and Frogs will still want to sell us their goods as we are one of their largest customers and those “gentlemen” have no sentiment when it comes to trading with whoever they can!! IMHO we’d be better served in leaving and just becoming a trading partner and don’t forget that the Germans will always want to be “top dog” in the EU and the French don’t like us full stop as we have either hammered them in long distant wars over the years or helped to save them in two World wars,they just want to keep us at “arms length” and we will,mark my words,just become an offshore appendage of the EU the same as Ireland has become.We have nothing whatsoever in common with mainland Europe either socially or econonically and never will have in the long term I believe.IMO Cameron is just as bigger [zb] as Blair was,and I’ve voted conservative all my life,but no more ! Cheers Bewick.

^ This.

But it all goes back a lot further than Blair.From a Labour voter’s perspective Wilson,Callaghan and Healey amongst ‘others’ were even bigger zb’s than Heath,Thatcher and Cameron because being Labour they were ( supposed ) to have been looking after the interests of the average British worker not the big business tory lot that they joined in that referendum yes campaign against those in their own Party who knew better.I think real Labour voters realised long ago that Wilson,Callaghan,Thatcher and Blair were all the same.While today the whole Labour movement has been brainwashed into supporting the pro EU lot,unlike the situation in 1975.

switchlogic:
Yes, in your opinion.

So you’re saying that we were in net trade deficit with europe before we joined the EEC/EU and in net trade surplus afterwards and we haven’t been net contributors to the whole scam since we joined :question: . :unamused:

stevieboy308:

Winseer:
It’s more post-thatcherism. We have to live in the reality that is the mess created by previous generations of politicians, especially Thatcher.

Ford, on the other hand, wasn’t going to be signing up to the “underpay employees, and let them top-up their lifestyle shortfalls with debt” system pushed upon society by the zionist faction.

0

“Supply creates it’s own demand”
(Say’s Law)

and

“If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you.”
(Samuel Clemens)

seem more appropriate things to consider here.

Supply doesn’t create it’s own demand.

what ya man say was on about was if you supply something and make money, then you use that money to go and demand something

Not at all. Once upon a time we got by without mobile phones. Now nearly everyone has one, and can’t give up using one. Supply was created, and demand is almost total from near zero when the price was too high for the general population back in the 1980’s for example.
The British Empire created demand for Opium in China by over-supplying it to the nation that had no interest in paying top dollar for British imports of a normal nature otherwise. We created a market, then addiction jacked up the demand (and the price!) of that market. Pretty rotten, but history is written by the empires not by it’s victims. One could even argue that China are now getting their own back using “Credit” instead of “Opium” as their dodgy product that they create artificial demand for by supressing their own currency, supporting currencies borrowed, and holding down interest rates worldwide - oversupply of credit which of course we do what with? - Buy Chinese manufactured goods.

You can also create demand out of a money-losing scenario given enough credit. Even if the founding firm goes under most of the time, the industry it created goes on IF demand has been created in time. Brunel’s enterprises lost the shirts of their investor base, but no one would dare suggest what infrastructure there is that is credited to him is nothing but long term, and continues to be beneficial to the nation. Dot Com firms have condensed into a small shadow of the huge number that existed during the dot com boom. All sense of reality has been lost, because some of the best products are from now long-bust firms, whilst big firms still continuing to burn cash daily prosper - because they’ve got ever more credit line to draw upon.
Ask yourself the questions “Does Google make any profit out of YOU?” compared to “Do you use infrastructure like Fibre Optic internet connection that once belonged to a now-bust firm?”

If everyone took the view “Let’s not do that, because there isn’t a market for it” we’d still be living in grass huts. :smiley:

Winseer:
We’d be in a “position of strength” if we left the Eurozone, then got begged to re-join, which of course we’d only do dictating our own terms.
Threatening to leave won’t cut it. Do the deed, and then watch the panic on the continent…
There’s no way that Germany and France can shoulder the parasitic nature of the other states without a third set of contributions coming from blighty.

The rest of Europe in the Med zone wouldn’t give a monkeys of course, but the east would (nowhere to go to flood the labour market anymore) the North would mind (set our own crude export levels, undercutting the rest) and the centre, France & Germany especially would petulantly attempt to upset our apple cart in a trade war or three, trying to make us regret having left.

How’s Iceland coming along by the way? Strange how there’s nothing in the news about their recovery eh?
They are not walking around with barrels around them after all, which is what one might expect of a country effectively going bust…

I have no interest in the UK being “at the heart of Europe” ie join the united states of Europe where we are just a offshore minor state in the bigger picture of the future to come.
On the other side, I wouldn’t mind seeing a united states of England emerge, seeing as they’ve already agreed to adopt our language (surely the hardest step to sell the euro electorate, but already done nonetheless…) The UK would have a much bigger administrative job of running Europe in this scenario, what with our previous experience of running an empire and all. Of course, the Germans and Italians also have “empire” experience too, but they can be re-labelled “won’t pay” and “can’t pay” in the great future of things.

What’s wrong with just going back to the type of British economy that we had in 1969 for example :question: .

Winseer:

stevieboy308:

Winseer:
It’s more post-thatcherism. We have to live in the reality that is the mess created by previous generations of politicians, especially Thatcher.

Ford, on the other hand, wasn’t going to be signing up to the “underpay employees, and let them top-up their lifestyle shortfalls with debt” system pushed upon society by the zionist faction.

0

“Supply creates it’s own demand”
(Say’s Law)

and

“If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you.”
(Samuel Clemens)

seem more appropriate things to consider here.

Supply doesn’t create it’s own demand.

what ya man say was on about was if you supply something and make money, then you use that money to go and demand something

Not at all. Once upon a time we got by without mobile phones. Now nearly everyone has one, and can’t give up using one. Supply was created, and demand is almost total from near zero when the price was too high for the general population back in the 1980’s for example.
The British Empire created demand for Opium in China by over-supplying it to the nation that had no interest in paying top dollar for British imports of a normal nature otherwise. We created a market, then addiction jacked up the demand (and the price!) of that market. Pretty rotten, but history is written by the empires not by it’s victims. One could even argue that China are now getting their own back using “Credit” instead of “Opium” as their dodgy product that they create artificial demand for by supressing their own currency, supporting currencies borrowed, and holding down interest rates worldwide - oversupply of credit which of course we do what with? - Buy Chinese manufactured goods.

You can also create demand out of a money-losing scenario given enough credit. Even if the founding firm goes under most of the time, the industry it created goes on IF demand has been created in time. Brunel’s enterprises lost the shirts of their investor base, but no one would dare suggest what infrastructure there is that is credited to him is nothing but long term, and continues to be beneficial to the nation. Dot Com firms have condensed into a small shadow of the huge number that existed during the dot com boom. All sense of reality has been lost, because some of the best products are from now long-bust firms, whilst big firms still continuing to burn cash daily prosper - because they’ve got ever more credit line to draw upon.
Ask yourself the questions “Does Google make any profit out of YOU?” compared to “Do you use infrastructure like Fibre Optic internet connection that once belonged to a now-bust firm?”

If everyone took the view “Let’s not do that, because there isn’t a market for it” we’d still be living in grass huts. :smiley:

The flaw in that argument is that sooner or later you end up in the situation where the debt and it’s repayments exceed income.Which is more or less where the British economy is now.It’s having a surplus of cash that creates demand and provides the liquidity in the economy for continuing production and economic growth not credit.The problems arise when that cash gets spent on imported goods that we could make for ourselves.

We can’t go back to 1969 without dropping the population to 1969 levels with it. Not possible this side of WWIII or a pandemic dieback most likely.
Wages merely meet debt minimum tickover payments these days. This means there is no chance the debt will be paid, but the lenders don’t care, as paying interest on the same debt for umpteen years (without increasing the capital outstanding) means getting the biggest bang for your loaned buck.

The bubble bursts when people realise that they CAN go without “credit”, and subsequently take the next logical step of defaulting all unsecured debts currently outstanding…

Punishment for unsecured debt default is “your credit rating will suffer” which means toss-all if you’re not looking to borrow more money for the foreseeable future. :grimacing:
If you don’t own any of your house, you can’t have your house re-possessed. A charging order won’t work, because it still requires a house to be sold at a profit to raise any money for the issuer. If your income is so low you are on any kind of benefit, an attempt to get an “attrachment of earnings order” will be set aside “until the defendant gets a full time job” The defendant merely works part time for 6 years, and kisses goodbye to all that debt - all perfectly legal. :grimacing:
Debt collectors are too tight fisted to pay for bankruptcy proceedings themselves, so they won’t ever go for that option unless they are SURE the defendant is hiding away major assets which can be seized. They WILL, on the other hand, try and manipulate the defendant into bankrupting themselves, which of course if the debtor refuses to play along with, the debt collector has lost there and then. Where do you think “bad debts” come from?
There is a limit to how many times a debt can be sold on before it becomes unenforceable (over 6 years old) or toxic to the collector, because it would cost more to collect than even asset seizure would raise. :wink:

You only truly get out of heavy debt by accepting that you’ll not be borrowing money again, and defaulting.
Few people are going to get the hefty increment in income that is required to pay the debt off fair and square otherwise.

btw. The public are getting wise to “debt walkaway” which costs nothing, and involves no third party “debt advisors” to do. Collections agencies are already quietly going out of business, because people with unsecured debts along with a mortgage merely have to pay the mortgage in full, and leave the unsecured stuff. Any objections from unsecured lenders would have them attempting to extract money back from those mortgage payments, which just isn’t going to happen - the mortgage lender will even fight your corner for you, and prevent THEIR asset from being seized to pay off an unsecured debt that the secured lender doesn’t give a ■■■■ about. Attempts to get unsecured debts converted into “secured on the debtors property” will also fail, once one involves the mortgage lender in the process as “White Knight”. They will jealously guard their “preferential creditor” status, and will happily tell all other creditors to bog off. :sunglasses:

I predict a pandemic of debt default by the end of the decade, which will be our “lost decade” as far as interest income is concerned.
Ordinary savers already know what it feels like to be “denied interest payments upon their savings”. It is only a matter of time before the large entities in the credit markets wake up to the reality that a credit deflationary crash will occur before the next major upswing in the global economy. :open_mouth:

Winseer:
We can’t go back to 1969 without dropping the population to 1969 levels with it. Not possible this side of WWIII or a pandemic dieback most likely.
Wages merely meet debt minimum tickover payments these days. This means there is no chance the debt will be paid, but the lenders don’t care, as paying interest on the same debt for umpteen years (without increasing the capital outstanding) means getting the biggest bang for your loaned buck.

The bubble bursts when people realise that they CAN go without “credit”, and subsequently take the next logical step of defaulting all unsecured debts currently outstanding…

Punishment for unsecured debt default is “your credit rating will suffer” which means toss-all if you’re not looking to borrow more money for the foreseeable future. :grimacing:
If you don’t own any of your house, you can’t have your house re-possessed. A charging order won’t work, because it still requires a house to be sold at a profit to raise any money for the issuer. If your income is so low you are on any kind of benefit, an attempt to get an “attrachment of earnings order” will be set aside “until the defendant gets a full time job” The defendant merely works part time for 6 years, and kisses goodbye to all that debt - all perfectly legal. :grimacing:
Debt collectors are too tight fisted to pay for bankruptcy proceedings themselves, so they won’t ever go for that option unless they are SURE the defendant is hiding away major assets which can be seized. They WILL, on the other hand, try and manipulate the defendant into bankrupting themselves, which of course if the debtor refuses to play along with, the debt collector has lost there and then. Where do you think “bad debts” come from?
There is a limit to how many times a debt can be sold on before it becomes unenforceable (over 6 years old) or toxic to the collector, because it would cost more to collect than even asset seizure would raise. :wink:

You only truly get out of heavy debt by accepting that you’ll not be borrowing money again, and defaulting.
Few people are going to get the hefty increment in income that is required to pay the debt off fair and square otherwise.

btw. The public are getting wise to “debt walkaway” which costs nothing, and involves no third party “debt advisors” to do. Collections agencies are already quietly going out of business, because people with unsecured debts along with a mortgage merely have to pay the mortgage in full, and leave the unsecured stuff. Any objections from unsecured lenders would have them attempting to extract money back from those mortgage payments, which just isn’t going to happen - the mortgage lender will even fight your corner for you, and prevent THEIR asset from being seized to pay off an unsecured debt that the secured lender doesn’t give a ■■■■ about. Attempts to get unsecured debts converted into “secured on the debtors property” will also fail, once one involves the mortgage lender in the process as “White Knight”. They will jealously guard their “preferential creditor” status, and will happily tell all other creditors to bog off. :sunglasses:

I predict a pandemic of debt default by the end of the decade, which will be our “lost decade” as far as interest income is concerned.
Ordinary savers already know what it feels like to be “denied interest payments upon their savings”. It is only a matter of time before the large entities in the credit markets wake up to the reality that a credit deflationary crash will occur before the next major upswing in the global economy. :open_mouth:

Increased population would/should translate into even more demand for domestically produced goods under the type of economy which we had in 1969.Hence more demand for labour and even higher wages.The problem in reality,in this case,is that the population increase is mainly all about immigration which adds to housing demand and therefore housing costs and adds to the labour supply which decreases wages while the extra demand for goods just translates into more imports so an even bigger trade deficit and no benefits in more demand for labour so even more downward pressure on incomes. :bulb:

I think the flaw in your idea is seperating secured mortgage debt and unsecured consumer debt when the fact is they are both reliant on the same non existent income and as we know default on secured mortgage debt just feeds back to the banks which then go bust and have to be bailed out by the tax payer.The problem in this case being that taxation revenues are falling like a stone,in addition to our trade deficit in relation to the basics like fuel let alone imported goods while the demands from the EU for more contributions for the privilege of running that trade deficit with it grow ever larger.

The great Thatcherite tory dream has turned the British economy into a nightmare that can’t even pay for the heating and lighting bills that’s even if it can provide enough money to pay for a mortgage for a house to heat and light.Just as every union member during the 1970’s told them would happen.

Carryfast:

Dennisthemenace:

Carryfast:

Saaamon:

crispie:
Luke has it spot on Cameron has pulled a blinder, if you do not vote Consevative at the next election and they dont get in any referendum vanishes. Certainly UKIP will not offer one, and Milliband has not the balls to go for one.
For me personally its stay in and challenge from a postion of strength if we move away the doors will close. The company I work for still manufacture in the UK and we export over 60% into Europe, Germany is our main market and ship at least 1-2 trucks per week, in fact some of you on here may be shipping for us as i write this, we are owned by an American firm and if the UK pull out i can see them looking to move to mainland Europe where the main market is for us, and the repercussions on 400 workforce.
As for Norway and Switzerland they also pay a lot of money to Europe without having any say in any regulations or laws passed that still affect them so that they can trade easily.
We are a successful European company it just so happened we are based in the UK.
What does get up my nose is the constant cry of “we dont make anything any more in the UK” if more of our politicians visited companies like ours they would see that “MADE IN UK” is still a fantastic brand in Europe.
Don’t forget you guys and girls driving those trucks all over the UK and Europe without the influence of Europe right or wrong do you prefer the nice Volvo, Scania’s, MAN, Merc’s etc than the old GB Atkinson’s, AEC, ERF’s as if it was not for the “foreign” makers bringing the industry into the 21st century and being part of Europe where would we be.
Sorry for going on for so long
Anyway by the time comes to vote i will be happily retired living in New Zealand. :smiley: :slight_smile: :laughing:
Good luck for 2013

Well said!

More like Norway and Swiss are mugs adhering to EU regs and paying the EU for the privilege of trading with it.We’d actually be in a much stronger position than Norway and Switzerland if we’re out because we’ve got a massive trade deficit with the EU to start with.In our case all we need to do is tell the EU to get stuffed we’re not paying for the privilege of importing stuff from them that we could be making for ourselves and if they want a trade war then bring it on.The fact is it’s the EU that has everything to lose in that situation while we can only win.

Britain would be nothing without Europe. Sad, but true.

The British economy was much stronger before we joined and all joining did was to turn a trade surplus with europe into a deficit with the addition of paying massive amounts of money in the form of contributions for the privilege.

“The British economy was much stronger…”" That’s the keyword; WAS. Once upon a time… Just think about the vehicle industry; Rover is gone, the streets are ruled by german cars. The British industry simply poor. When I was a chid in the seventies people were looking for goods with the words on them; “Made in England”. Now the people do not even know these words, anyone looking for good quality german goods, or cheap chinese rubbish. The British economy run on the consumption generated by the 60 million people who live in the UK. Most of the workplaces are in the retail business…etc. Also, ask any foreigner trucker; they always come over here with a full load, but big time they going back to Europe empty, that obviously means, the import much bigger than the export.

I often think that Germany actually did win the war, it just took a long time.
I understand Adolf Hitler was aiming for an Europe controlled by a central Germany…

We only have a union with Europe when the big players say we have.
If we had free trade, Then my son would be able to insure his car in any member state.
A Vauxhall corsa 1.2 in the UK is about £2000. In another member state it’s £82.
If the EU was set up correctly from the start, Equal wages, Equal taxation, Equal road tax, Etc. Then maybe we could trade on quality and reliability first rather than wherever the cheap labour is.

triple-tango:
I often think that Germany actually did win the war, it just took a long time.
I understand Adolf Hitler was aiming for an Europe controlled by a central Germany…

Yes, they did. The “engine” of Europe is obviously Germany.