Winseer:
The westerm psyche has always been about being a more productive consumer rather than worker.
“Pay me more, and in turn I’ll spend more, and support jobs in other areas of the economy.”
Even I am of the same opinion that “I feel more productive earning £500 for 40 hours rather than £600 for 84 hours” after all. I want more pay for less hours as much as everyone else! That’s MORE productive to my HOUSEHOLD, but LESS productive to my EMPLOYER! - They’d like to see an 84 hour week bod taking home less and less after all.
Meanwhile, your house is repossesed, your wife leaves you and takes the kids, and people hassle you all the time - all because they think you are “Loadsamoney” when you in fact have not a pot to ■■■■ in!
The time for “painful adjustment” has come.
Get with the austerity plan that in time will improve our living standards, because we’ve long since stopped wasting money on crap we can’t afford anymore.
Thrift isn’t about “going to work an hour before you go to bed, and paying pit owner to employ uz” - it’s getting through your life getting what you want out of cash in hand, and not getting into legal, financial, or relationship trouble.
It’s about what you don’t spend, rather than what you earn. It always has been. Lifestyles need to change, not pay & conditions that are already long gone in the format we would have wanted to keep.
I know plenty of people living in the same neighbourhood as me (eg. approx same value housing) who earn more than double what I do, but are racked with unaffordable debts because they can’t give up the waster’s lifestyle that went with their originally high earnings!
Who’s better off? Them for earning double, or me for cutting my overheads by 60% already?
Wages deflation is like poison. You can outrun it with enough determination and constitution. Cut your costs faster than the wages are drooping, and hey presto! You’re real-terms better off when the downturn finally runs itself out.
Any bean counter will tell you that in real terms I’m flying high over the heads of those that think themselves superior, merely based upon their earnings.
“Cutting one’s personal overheads”, unlike getting a well-paid job, is something that ANYONE can choose to do at any time.
It’ll solve a lot more problems than taking the next job going too, even a well-paid one. How much money is going to get wasted on “the new lifestyle choices” that go with the fancy new job that you thought was going to make you rich, or at least pay of the mortgage when you took it?
Sounds closer to Thatcherism than Fordism to me.The fact is you won’t grow the economy by not having loads of workers employed in industry being paid and spending loads a money to buy the consumer goods which they’re making.
I agree carryfast - it was started with thatcher she tuked it up and then major then blair made a right hash of it all and should have been canned a long time before he was and now we’ve got a labour party that might as well be lib dem or tory in that they all want the same thing — they want us to carry on propping up the eastern block when it expands again which it will and nothing ever changes…
i hated it when all these foreigners started popping up on building sites and the rates halved literally overnight and then i saw it in transport too and now you’re lucky if you can get paid half decent money and then on top of all that the government actively allow in trucks that are not fit to be on our roads whilst making us all pay for it…
where or when does it all stop — is it before or after this country has been shoved so far down the pan that it has to live on subsidy from the rest of the world ■■?
We were promised a referendum but didn’t get it . Why, because its a gravy train for unelected MP’s. Turkeys will be voting for 3 christmasses a year before a in/out referendum.
Kerbdog:
i think the reality of it all is that most people are missing the point. Cameron is just playing a game of cat & mouse. He wants a better deal for Britain from the EU but nothing more than that but to get it has to play a game casting uncertainty of Britain being a part of the EU. I don’t think he has any intention of pulling out really.
i’d go with this, and the fact he wants to get voted back in again next time round.
imagine we did opt out, i’m sure our european neighbours wouldn’t make it hard for the british lorries involved with european haulage
would we go back to having to clear in and out at each border?
I don’t think anyone with even the slightest bit of intelligence doesn’t think he’s just another lying EU supporting tory zb just like Thatcher was.Just based on the simple question that if he’s telling the truth then why not hold the referendum now instead of after the election and why wait unti 2017 to leave the EU assuming it’s a vote for withdrawal.
As for British European truck operations who cares it worked before we joined and it’ll work if we leave.Maybe with the advantage that we can apply quotas to make sure that British operated trucks get their fair share of the work involving imports and exports entering and leaving the country,which certainly isn’t the case today.
It’s more post-thatcherism. We have to live in the reality that is the mess created by previous generations of politicians, especially Thatcher.
Ford, on the other hand, wasn’t going to be signing up to the “underpay employees, and let them top-up their lifestyle shortfalls with debt” system pushed upon society by the zionist faction.
Kerbdog:
i think the reality of it all is that most people are missing the point. Cameron is just playing a game of cat & mouse. He wants a better deal for Britain from the EU but nothing more than that but to get it has to play a game casting uncertainty of Britain being a part of the EU. I don’t think he has any intention of pulling out really.
i’d go with this, and the fact he wants to get voted back in again next time round.
imagine we did opt out, i’m sure our european neighbours wouldn’t make it hard for the british lorries involved with european haulage
would we go back to having to clear in and out at each border?
Not quite sure how the clearing at each border thing would work, firstly, the infrastructure has been removed meaning there are physically few land border posts still there. Plus, would it be cost effective to resurrect them for the handful of Brit trucks that “may” pass through. And secondly, the Swiss don’t need to clear borders within Europe at this moment.
All in all I’d hazard a guess that sod all would change in that respect.
Luke has it spot on Cameron has pulled a blinder, if you do not vote Consevative at the next election and they dont get in any referendum vanishes. Certainly UKIP will not offer one, and Milliband has not the balls to go for one.
For me personally its stay in and challenge from a postion of strength if we move away the doors will close. The company I work for still manufacture in the UK and we export over 60% into Europe, Germany is our main market and ship at least 1-2 trucks per week, in fact some of you on here may be shipping for us as i write this, we are owned by an American firm and if the UK pull out i can see them looking to move to mainland Europe where the main market is for us, and the repercussions on 400 workforce.
As for Norway and Switzerland they also pay a lot of money to Europe without having any say in any regulations or laws passed that still affect them so that they can trade easily.
We are a successful European company it just so happened we are based in the UK.
What does get up my nose is the constant cry of “we dont make anything any more in the UK” if more of our politicians visited companies like ours they would see that “MADE IN UK” is still a fantastic brand in Europe.
Don’t forget you guys and girls driving those trucks all over the UK and Europe without the influence of Europe right or wrong do you prefer the nice Volvo, Scania’s, MAN, Merc’s etc than the old GB Atkinson’s, AEC, ERF’s as if it was not for the “foreign” makers bringing the industry into the 21st century and being part of Europe where would we be.
Sorry for going on for so long
Anyway by the time comes to vote i will be happily retired living in New Zealand.
Good luck for 2013
Winseer:
It’s more post-thatcherism. We have to live in the reality that is the mess created by previous generations of politicians, especially Thatcher.
Ford, on the other hand, wasn’t going to be signing up to the “underpay employees, and let them top-up their lifestyle shortfalls with debt” system pushed upon society by the zionist faction.
0
“Supply creates it’s own demand”
(Say’s Law)
and
“If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you.”
(Samuel Clemens)
seem more appropriate things to consider here.
The fact is we’ve been living under a Thatcherite economy ever since 1979 and we’re still under that exact same system.Regardless of the issues concerning Ford’s ideas of who might,or might not,have been controlling the banking system of the 1920’s,the relevant bit is the US economy,and to a lesser extent ours,as they stood during the 1960’s.Which was all about strong unions calling for ( and getting ) high pay increases within a Fordist system of mainly domestically produced goods which was then reflected in economic growth and increased consumer demand for those domestically produced goods.It’s the high pay angle and satisfying the resulting demand with domestic industrial production not imports which is the key and it’s the total opposite to what we’ve got and had ever since Thatcherism and Reaganomics were allowed to take off and our membership of the EU since the Tories took us into it in 1973 just added to that situation.
Kerbdog:
i think the reality of it all is that most people are missing the point. Cameron is just playing a game of cat & mouse. He wants a better deal for Britain from the EU but nothing more than that but to get it has to play a game casting uncertainty of Britain being a part of the EU. I don’t think he has any intention of pulling out really.
i’d go with this, and the fact he wants to get voted back in again next time round.
imagine we did opt out, i’m sure our european neighbours wouldn’t make it hard for the british lorries involved with european haulage
would we go back to having to clear in and out at each border?
Not quite sure how the clearing at each border thing would work, firstly, the infrastructure has been removed meaning there are physically few land border posts still there. Plus, would it be cost effective to resurrect them for the handful of Brit trucks that “may” pass through. And secondly, the Swiss don’t need to clear borders within Europe at this moment.
All in all I’d hazard a guess that sod all would change in that respect.
The borders of the EU are formed by any neighbouring country that isn’t a member.There certainly are border posts between every Swiss and EU border.For the purposes of travel between EU states the borders only effectively apply where they meet non EU countries although there’s a difference between the Schengen and non Schengen states of which we’re not one anyway.So there’d be no big issue concerning the change in our border controls with the EU than exist now except they’d be more or less as they are between Switzerland and France/Italy/Germany or Norway and Sweden.Or for that matter the Isle of Man or the Channel Islands ( neither of which are EU members ) and Britain.
ROG:
Do other EU countries regard the UK as a good EU member or do they think we should not really be a member ?
No surprise that the EU wanted Britain as a member as soon as they saw the advantages of having a North Sea oil rich country in the club,especially after the Arab oil embargo,and the potential for getting loads of contributions out of us.Which was very convenient for ze Germans for example with Thatcher being hell bent on destroying British industry by turning the place over to imports of European made goods which we could make for ourselves in exchange for oil which we could have kept at home for ourselves at below market costs thereby giving British workers a competitive advantage over German ones.Which of course didn’t suit the idea of keeping German workers happy at the expense of the Brits probably as part of that policy of keeping the so called peace in europe by making sure never to upset ze Germans again.With the result that the Brits have often ended up paying more at the pump for our own oil than the Europeans who had zb all of their own.
crispie:
Luke has it spot on Cameron has pulled a blinder, if you do not vote Consevative at the next election and they dont get in any referendum vanishes. Certainly UKIP will not offer one, and Milliband has not the balls to go for one.
For me personally its stay in and challenge from a postion of strength if we move away the doors will close. The company I work for still manufacture in the UK and we export over 60% into Europe, Germany is our main market and ship at least 1-2 trucks per week, in fact some of you on here may be shipping for us as i write this, we are owned by an American firm and if the UK pull out i can see them looking to move to mainland Europe where the main market is for us, and the repercussions on 400 workforce.
As for Norway and Switzerland they also pay a lot of money to Europe without having any say in any regulations or laws passed that still affect them so that they can trade easily.
We are a successful European company it just so happened we are based in the UK.
What does get up my nose is the constant cry of “we dont make anything any more in the UK” if more of our politicians visited companies like ours they would see that “MADE IN UK” is still a fantastic brand in Europe.
Don’t forget you guys and girls driving those trucks all over the UK and Europe without the influence of Europe right or wrong do you prefer the nice Volvo, Scania’s, MAN, Merc’s etc than the old GB Atkinson’s, AEC, ERF’s as if it was not for the “foreign” makers bringing the industry into the 21st century and being part of Europe where would we be.
Sorry for going on for so long
Anyway by the time comes to vote i will be happily retired living in New Zealand.
Good luck for 2013
The UK doesn’t need to be In the USE to trade with it.
Think about it logically.
Leave The EU/USE or whatever theyre calling themselves next, then draw a big line through any rule, reg, directive etc that came from Brussels overnight. Less bs red tape. We’d be able to rebuild our countries sovereignty and given time our national pride, industrial skills base etc.
The Club of Rome/EU was never anything more than a continental bloc, a stalking horse for a World Government.
How faraway are we now from Eric Blairs famous “Oceana”(?).
crispie:
Luke has it spot on Cameron has pulled a blinder, if you do not vote Consevative at the next election and they dont get in any referendum vanishes. Certainly UKIP will not offer one, and Milliband has not the balls to go for one.
For me personally its stay in and challenge from a postion of strength if we move away the doors will close. The company I work for still manufacture in the UK and we export over 60% into Europe, Germany is our main market and ship at least 1-2 trucks per week, in fact some of you on here may be shipping for us as i write this, we are owned by an American firm and if the UK pull out i can see them looking to move to mainland Europe where the main market is for us, and the repercussions on 400 workforce.
As for Norway and Switzerland they also pay a lot of money to Europe without having any say in any regulations or laws passed that still affect them so that they can trade easily.
We are a successful European company it just so happened we are based in the UK.
What does get up my nose is the constant cry of “we dont make anything any more in the UK” if more of our politicians visited companies like ours they would see that “MADE IN UK” is still a fantastic brand in Europe.
Don’t forget you guys and girls driving those trucks all over the UK and Europe without the influence of Europe right or wrong do you prefer the nice Volvo, Scania’s, MAN, Merc’s etc than the old GB Atkinson’s, AEC, ERF’s as if it was not for the “foreign” makers bringing the industry into the 21st century and being part of Europe where would we be.
Sorry for going on for so long
Anyway by the time comes to vote i will be happily retired living in New Zealand.
Good luck for 2013
Well said!
More like Norway and Swiss are mugs adhering to EU regs and paying the EU for the privilege of trading with it.We’d actually be in a much stronger position than Norway and Switzerland if we’re out because we’ve got a massive trade deficit with the EU to start with.In our case all we need to do is tell the EU to get stuffed we’re not paying for the privilege of importing stuff from them that we could be making for ourselves and if they want a trade war then bring it on.The fact is it’s the EU that has everything to lose in that situation while we can only win.
Carryfast:
The fact is it’s the EU that has everything to lose in that situation while we can only win.
My god you do live in some sort of weird alternative reality don’t you? Are you really daft enough to believe that? The reality is they couldn’t care less, we’d be nothing more than an annoying pimple on their arse you poor deluded man.
dew:
Get out of it. European countries will still trade with us, but we’ll be able to decide our own regulations rather than taking the [zb] from brussells.
I wonder, which british product will be sellable after that (customs??).
crispie:
Luke has it spot on Cameron has pulled a blinder, if you do not vote Consevative at the next election and they dont get in any referendum vanishes. Certainly UKIP will not offer one, and Milliband has not the balls to go for one.
For me personally its stay in and challenge from a postion of strength if we move away the doors will close. The company I work for still manufacture in the UK and we export over 60% into Europe, Germany is our main market and ship at least 1-2 trucks per week, in fact some of you on here may be shipping for us as i write this, we are owned by an American firm and if the UK pull out i can see them looking to move to mainland Europe where the main market is for us, and the repercussions on 400 workforce.
As for Norway and Switzerland they also pay a lot of money to Europe without having any say in any regulations or laws passed that still affect them so that they can trade easily.
We are a successful European company it just so happened we are based in the UK.
What does get up my nose is the constant cry of “we dont make anything any more in the UK” if more of our politicians visited companies like ours they would see that “MADE IN UK” is still a fantastic brand in Europe.
Don’t forget you guys and girls driving those trucks all over the UK and Europe without the influence of Europe right or wrong do you prefer the nice Volvo, Scania’s, MAN, Merc’s etc than the old GB Atkinson’s, AEC, ERF’s as if it was not for the “foreign” makers bringing the industry into the 21st century and being part of Europe where would we be.
Sorry for going on for so long
Anyway by the time comes to vote i will be happily retired living in New Zealand.
Good luck for 2013
Well said!
More like Norway and Swiss are mugs adhering to EU regs and paying the EU for the privilege of trading with it.We’d actually be in a much stronger position than Norway and Switzerland if we’re out because we’ve got a massive trade deficit with the EU to start with.In our case all we need to do is tell the EU to get stuffed we’re not paying for the privilege of importing stuff from them that we could be making for ourselves and if they want a trade war then bring it on.The fact is it’s the EU that has everything to lose in that situation while we can only win.
Britain would be nothing without Europe. Sad, but true.
I will vote to come out of Europe…if we get to have a referendum.All we have had from being a member state of the EU is a lot of legislation,with a lot of UK money going in,with very little to show for it.
