Europe yes or no

Carryfast:

switchlogic:

limeyphil:

switchlogic:

Carryfast:

syramax:
as i understand it ,we will get a vote if tories are re-elected, will that happen■■?

The answer to that is to vote for UKIP.Simples. :bulb:

Logic still isn’t your strong point is it old man. UKIP takes votes from the Tories, which will allow Labour into power, thereby ending your dreams of a referendum. If you think Farage has a chance of being the next PM your even more stupid than I thought.

Not quite. If UKIP take votes from the conservatives, They will also take votes from Labour and the Lib dems. This wouldn’t put Farage in as prime minister, But he’d be in a barganing position to form a coalition with Labour or Conservative.

Errrr, no, they won’t. Well not to the same degree. UKIP appeals to the Conservative right which is a large group, certainly not core Labour voters. The Conservatives have the most to lose from UKIP and if enough people vote for them you’ll end up with a majority Labour government, giving that daft ■■■ Farage no bargaining power whatsoever

You obviously don’t remember a time when the Labour Party was split between for and against membership of the EU with a ( very ) strong anti group led by Shore just like the country in general at the time and since.As for the Labour core vote there’s never been such a thing.The Party has been made up of every type of political following ranging from similar to the BNP to Communists before putting Blair into power who was/is a raving EEC/EU supporting Thatcherite.As one of those Labour core voters at the time I should know. :unamused:

It’s 2013, maybe time you stopped living in the 70’s eh? Interesting though that you say Labour has never had a core vote then call yourself a core Labour voter back then.

NO.
Dump the ■■■■■■■ EU altogether. It’s done more harm to the social fabric of this country than good. We’ve been legally invaded by peasants with ■■■■ all to offer, we have bugger all power over our own borders, we can never seem to extradite ■■■■■ back to their own country, every crim worth his salt knows that he can have it over the system by going to the EU court of human ■■■■■■■ rights and the MEPS’s running the show are the biggest shiesters going with billions a year disappearing without trace.

And to top it all it costs us over 18 BILLION a year to be a part of it!

Please yourself but I say NO MORE. This isn’t what we voted for in '75

I voted out, although we need to still trade with Europe and they with us, but we need to explore far far larger markets like India,china and South America.
Europe is not a very big place…and the Swiss seem to be doing ok…

ironstipper:

switchlogic:

ironstipper:

switchlogic:
Just an interesting point, those of you saying you’d vote UKIP could end up stopping the very thing you want. Cameron has been clever, vote Conservative at the next election or you won’t get a referendum.

I think its just soundbite BS. All he is doing is putting Lasticband in a position where he has to either go against his parties policy’s or go with what the voters are demanding.

I notice around all sorts of forums, his interview on radio 4 the other day has not been mentioned. He clearly said early on in the interview if he gets into power in 2015, he will take us into the Euro.

Between the liblabcon party right now, the lib and lab are 2 cheeks of the same 'arris, and Cameron is the brown tea towel holder slap bang in the middle.

Can you provide a listen again link to that interview so I can listen? Cheers

I cant provide a link, as to be honest, i’m not clued up enough on this internetty stuff. But I’m pretty sure it was the morning market and news stuff on Friday or Monday, around 7am. It was the day Call me Dave should have made his EU speech, but cancelled it due to the Algerian crisis.

lasticband went onto say about Callmedave causing uncertainty and saying GB is shut for business ect

hope it helps chap.

It could be this one: bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01pw38l it was the Today programme on 17/01/13 which started at 06.00, but this interview starts 2.10hrs in.

Deepinvet:
I voted out, although we need to still trade with Europe and they with us, but we need to explore far far larger markets like India,china and South America.
Europe is not a very big place…and the Swiss seem to be doing ok…

To be fair though Europe is the biggest economy in the world

At the moment…Europe is not the only market , we need to look further.
The world is a huge place, just look at china, it was nowhere 10 years ago now it is a major world player…India is going the same way. We need to exploit these markets and not just rely on selling a bit of hanging pork to the Germans …:wink:))
India and china alone there are approximately 4 billion people and about 700 million in Europe …

ironstipper:

Carryfast:

Whirlwind:
If you want any chance to vote out then anything other than a conservative vote is wasted. . Ukip will get a couple of seats but not enough , clever of Cameron really .

There’s no way that the tories would ever go against the wishes of big business.Everything else is just bs just like when Thatcher pretended to be against it all having been part of the in campaign during the last referendum.It’s obvious that Cameron is just stalling and holding out a bs promise to damage the UKIP vote.There’s nothing stopping him calling a referendum now if he’s telling the truth and then declaring ourselves out right away depending on the result.Like all tories he’s just talking bs and you can bet that after the election he’d find some bs reason to to stay in and stop the referendum and/or support the in campaign even if he kept his promise.

[zb] I agree with carryfast :blush: well except for the Maggie bit.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kin … s_campaign

Deepinvet:
At the moment…Europe is not the only market , we need to look further.
The world is a huge place, just look at china, it was nowhere 10 years ago now it is a major world player…India is going the same way. We need to exploit these markets and not just rely on selling a bit of hanging pork to the Germans …:wink:))
India and china alone there are approximately 4 billion people and about 700 million in Europe …

And what is the spending power of the average european to the average Chinese of Indian?

switchlogic:

Carryfast:

switchlogic:

limeyphil:

switchlogic:

Carryfast:

syramax:
as i understand it ,we will get a vote if tories are re-elected, will that happen■■?

The answer to that is to vote for UKIP.Simples. :bulb:

Logic still isn’t your strong point is it old man. UKIP takes votes from the Tories, which will allow Labour into power, thereby ending your dreams of a referendum. If you think Farage has a chance of being the next PM your even more stupid than I thought.

Not quite. If UKIP take votes from the conservatives, They will also take votes from Labour and the Lib dems. This wouldn’t put Farage in as prime minister, But he’d be in a barganing position to form a coalition with Labour or Conservative.

Errrr, no, they won’t. Well not to the same degree. UKIP appeals to the Conservative right which is a large group, certainly not core Labour voters. The Conservatives have the most to lose from UKIP and if enough people vote for them you’ll end up with a majority Labour government, giving that daft ■■■ Farage no bargaining power whatsoever

You obviously don’t remember a time when the Labour Party was split between for and against membership of the EU with a ( very ) strong anti group led by Shore just like the country in general at the time and since.As for the Labour core vote there’s never been such a thing.The Party has been made up of every type of political following ranging from similar to the BNP to Communists before putting Blair into power who was/is a raving EEC/EU supporting Thatcherite.As one of those Labour core voters at the time I should know. :unamused:

It’s 2013, maybe time you stopped living in the 70’s eh? Interesting though that you say Labour has never had a core vote then call yourself a core Labour voter back then.

Which part of the word Party don’t you understand.As I said the Party had a core vote for the ‘Party’ which ranged from views of all types ranging from those which you’d expect of supporters of the BNP to those which you’d expect of the Communist Party and sometimes a mixture of both.However contrary to your typical 21 st century stereotypical ideas the so called ‘left wing’,at that time,were ( rightly ) actually on the anti side of the argument knowing that British jobs would end up being lost because of our trade deficit with Europe together with the lose lose situation of higher prices and higher taxes. :unamused:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kin … o_campaign

Deepinvet:
At the moment…Europe is not the only market , we need to look further.

But still our biggest trading partner.

The world is a huge place, just look at china, it was nowhere 10 years ago now it is a major world player

And once the fiddling and manipulation of currency roles through, watch where it will be in 10 years. It will be the EU. If the world worked on the Gold Standard, China would never be where it is, as it would not have been able to manipulate its currency as it has. The war on iraq, contrary to belief was not all about oil. Sadam wanted to get out of the dollar as a trading currency, and trade in gold. Now with America and the western worlds debts, It would have vastly deflated the doller and possibly bankrupt the satates. (Although personally i feel they are bankrupt now). Not to say how naffed the UK would be when 11+ failure Brown not only flogged all our gold, but advertised the fact at its lowest ever price.

…India is going the same way. We need to exploit these markets and not just rely on selling a bit of hanging pork to the Germans …;-)))

India is booming, but on the back of what? I’m watching this one, and fancy investing a small amount but I’m looking for a safe long term bet and cant pin the tail on the donkey here. I still dont think you have a trustworth government to by shares or bonds there.

India and china alone there are approximately 4 billion people and about 700 million in Europe …

You find me a AIM company listed in the UK from China or India that has run straight and not had the company and funds run into the ground over 5 years. I’ll toss £500 in them tomorrow.

As someone that likes playing with high risk shares, I’ve put my money where my mouth is, and have £750 sat in a company called “GLOBO”. they are Greek. and I feel safer there then China, Japan or India.

Carryfast:

switchlogic:

Carryfast:

switchlogic:

limeyphil:

switchlogic:

Carryfast:

syramax:
as i understand it ,we will get a vote if tories are re-elected, will that happen■■?

The answer to that is to vote for UKIP.Simples. :bulb:

Logic still isn’t your strong point is it old man. UKIP takes votes from the Tories, which will allow Labour into power, thereby ending your dreams of a referendum. If you think Farage has a chance of being the next PM your even more stupid than I thought.

Not quite. If UKIP take votes from the conservatives, They will also take votes from Labour and the Lib dems. This wouldn’t put Farage in as prime minister, But he’d be in a barganing position to form a coalition with Labour or Conservative.

Errrr, no, they won’t. Well not to the same degree. UKIP appeals to the Conservative right which is a large group, certainly not core Labour voters. The Conservatives have the most to lose from UKIP and if enough people vote for them you’ll end up with a majority Labour government, giving that daft ■■■ Farage no bargaining power whatsoever

You obviously don’t remember a time when the Labour Party was split between for and against membership of the EU with a ( very ) strong anti group led by Shore just like the country in general at the time and since.As for the Labour core vote there’s never been such a thing.The Party has been made up of every type of political following ranging from similar to the BNP to Communists before putting Blair into power who was/is a raving EEC/EU supporting Thatcherite.As one of those Labour core voters at the time I should know. :unamused:

It’s 2013, maybe time you stopped living in the 70’s eh? Interesting though that you say Labour has never had a core vote then call yourself a core Labour voter back then.

Which part of the word Party don’t you understand.As I said the Party had a core vote for the ‘Party’ which ranged from views of all types ranging from those which you’d expect of supporters of the BNP to those which you’d expect of the Communist Party and sometimes a mixture of both.However contrary to your typical 21 st century stereotypical ideas the so called ‘left wing’,at that time,were ( rightly ) actually on the anti side of the argument knowing that British jobs would end up being lost because of our trade deficit with Europe together with the lose lose situation of higher prices and higher taxes. :unamused:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kin … o_campaign

carryfast:
As for the Labour core vote there’s never been such a thing.

Ok then, you don’t know your arse from your elbow so how do you expect the rest of us to understand you?

I look forward to all the clueless xenophobes in this country voting us out of Europe so the Tories can, for example, squeeze the health service even further and remove even more rights for workers. :unamused:

Deepinvet:
I voted out, although we need to still trade with Europe and they with us, but we need to explore far far larger markets like India,china and South America.
Europe is not a very big place…and the Swiss seem to be doing ok…

I think in the case China you’re jumping from the frying pan,of a massive trade deficit with Europe,and resulting debt into the fire of an even larger one.While just like India the only way that the Chinese are going to get the money to buy stuff from us is by us giving them the money first by way of imports of stuff which we don’t need because we can make it for ourselves or foreign ‘aid’ payments.

switchlogic:

Carryfast:

switchlogic:

Carryfast:

switchlogic:

limeyphil:

switchlogic:

Carryfast:

syramax:
as i understand it ,we will get a vote if tories are re-elected, will that happen■■?

The answer to that is to vote for UKIP.Simples. :bulb:

Logic still isn’t your strong point is it old man. UKIP takes votes from the Tories, which will allow Labour into power, thereby ending your dreams of a referendum. If you think Farage has a chance of being the next PM your even more stupid than I thought.

Not quite. If UKIP take votes from the conservatives, They will also take votes from Labour and the Lib dems. This wouldn’t put Farage in as prime minister, But he’d be in a barganing position to form a coalition with Labour or Conservative.

Errrr, no, they won’t. Well not to the same degree. UKIP appeals to the Conservative right which is a large group, certainly not core Labour voters. The Conservatives have the most to lose from UKIP and if enough people vote for them you’ll end up with a majority Labour government, giving that daft ■■■ Farage no bargaining power whatsoever

You obviously don’t remember a time when the Labour Party was split between for and against membership of the EU with a ( very ) strong anti group led by Shore just like the country in general at the time and since.As for the Labour core vote there’s never been such a thing.The Party has been made up of every type of political following ranging from similar to the BNP to Communists before putting Blair into power who was/is a raving EEC/EU supporting Thatcherite.As one of those Labour core voters at the time I should know. :unamused:

It’s 2013, maybe time you stopped living in the 70’s eh? Interesting though that you say Labour has never had a core vote then call yourself a core Labour voter back then.

Which part of the word Party don’t you understand.As I said the Party had a core vote for the ‘Party’ which ranged from views of all types ranging from those which you’d expect of supporters of the BNP to those which you’d expect of the Communist Party and sometimes a mixture of both.However contrary to your typical 21 st century stereotypical ideas the so called ‘left wing’,at that time,were ( rightly ) actually on the anti side of the argument knowing that British jobs would end up being lost because of our trade deficit with Europe together with the lose lose situation of higher prices and higher taxes. :unamused:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kin … o_campaign

carryfast:
As for the Labour core vote there’s never been such a thing.

Ok then, you don’t know your arse from your elbow so how do you expect the rest of us to understand you?

No it’s just that as I read it the word ‘core’ in your description was all about the so called ‘right wing’ vote as opposed to the ‘left wing’ vote.As you can see being a ‘Labour’ voter then took a bit more intelligence and non recognition of the bs right and left issue than the type of pro EEC/EU Labour voters who voted for Blair and who took over the Party making it untenable for anyone with any intelligence to be a part of or vote for ever again.Which is why Miliband has taken up the Thatcherite pro Europe cause that Wilson,Callaghan and Blair left behind them. :unamused:

Looking at the results of this poll, it’s clear that Dave’s shameless attempt to appeal to the ignorant masses thus ensuring he stays in power was a brilliant idea! :smiley:

Have read of these,
ukip.org/content/ukip-policies

and this

ukip.org/content/ukip-polici … -stand-for

What do you think?

Out…

And btw, didn’t John Major make the same promises for his election campaign ? or does my memory wobble here ?

Contraflow:
I look forward to all the clueless xenophobes in this country voting us out of Europe so the Tories can, for example, squeeze the health service even further and remove even more rights for workers. :unamused:

I don’t remember German workers ever helping their British counterparts in the case of jobs being lost from British industry to German imports and the unions here were actually stronger before we joined the EEC because we were a net exporter of manufactured goods and self sufficient in coal.So you’re saying the national health service didn’t exist before 1973.The reality is that the NHS had more money coming in while the taxes needed to pay for it were lower before we joined.Because we weren’t paying a fortune to the EU in contributions and we had more people employed in British industry before we gave it all away to the Germans and now the global free market economy. :unamused:

Geezus, is it any wonder nothing happens fast in our Governments ?

1970s:

The first and only referendum on the UK’s relationship with Europe was held in 1975
1 January 1973: The UK joins the European Economic Community (EEC). Negotiations were conducted by Tory Prime Minister Edward Heath

1974: Labour, under leader Harold Wilson, promises a referendum on whether to remain in the EEC in the party’s election manifesto

6 June 1975: The public endorse the UK’s continued membership of the EEC, with 67% of people voting to stay in at a referendum

1980s:

1983: In their election manifesto, Labour pledge to begin negotiations to withdraw from the EU “within the lifetime” of the following Parliament. Labour lose the election

1989: Margaret Thatcher signals the UK will join the European Exchange Rate Mechanism. She resigns 18 months later amid internal divisions over Europe and other issues

1990s:

1992: European leaders sign the Maastricht Treaty, creating the modern day European Union. The UK exits the European Exchange Rate Mechanism

1993: Tory rebels fail in campaign for a referendum on the Maastricht Treaty. Parliament approves the treaty but only after John Major is forced to call a vote of confidence in his government. Denmark and France are among countries to hold a referendum

1996: Businessman Sir James Goldsmith launches the Referendum Party to campaign for a public vote on the UK’s membership of the EU. It secures 3% of the vote at the 1997 general election

1997: In their election manifesto, Labour say a yes vote in a referendum is a “pre-condition” for Britain for joining the single currency.

1999: The euro is launched. The UK opts out

2000s:

2004: Labour Prime Minister Tony Blair says a referendum will be held on ratification of the European Constitution Treaty but does not name a date for the poll

2005: Labour, the Conservatives and the Liberal Democrats all promise a referendum on whether to ratify the EU Constitution in their general election manifestos. France and the Netherlands reject the proposal in referendums

The UK ratified the Lisbon Treaty without a referendum
2006: The cross-party Better Off Out Group, seeking the UK’s withdrawal from the EU, is launched

2007: The European Commission proposes a replacement treaty, which comes to be known as the Lisbon Treaty. The Labour government says it is a different document, amending not overwriting existing treaties, and a referendum is not needed. Conservative leader David Cameron gives a “cast-iron guarantee” to hold a referendum on any treaty emerging from the Lisbon process if he becomes PM

2008: Lib Dem leader Nick Clegg calls for an “in-out” referendum on UK membership of the EU. MPs reject a Conservative call for a referendum on whether the Lisbon Treaty should be ratified by 63 votes. 15 Labour MPs and 14 Lib Dems rebel against their parties

2008: The UK ratifies the Lisbon Treaty. The High Court rejects calls for a judicial review of the decision by Tory MP Bill Cash and businessman Stuart Wheeler. They claim ratification without a referendum was illegal

2009: David Cameron admits he will not be able to fulfil his pledge to hold a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty because it has been ratified by all EU member states. But he says, if elected, no future substantial transfer of powers will take place without the approval of the British people

2010s: BATTLE REJOINED

Monday’s debate follows a 100,000 strong petition being handed into Downing Street
April 2010: In their election manifesto, the Lib Dems pledge to hold an “in-out” referendum the next time there is a “fundamental change” in the EU’s treaty arrangements

May 2010: A new generation of more eurosceptic Conservative MPs is elected to Parliament

February 2011: Tory MP Peter Bone fails in a bid to secure an “in-out” referendum by amending government legislation proposing a referendum in future if big changes are made to EU treaties. Mr Bone said a second referendum on UK membership should be triggered if the public initially vetoed plans to hand more powers to Brussels but his plan to change the Europe Bill is rejected

March 2011: People’s Pledge campaign for a referendum is launched.

8 September 2011: A petition calling for a referendum on EU membership, signed by 100,000 people, is handed into Downing Street

12 September 2011: More than 100 Tory MPs meet to discuss how to reconfigure the UK’s relationship with Europe in wake of the eurozone financial crisis

17 October 2011: Backbench business committee agrees to hold a Commons debate on EU membership following a request by Tory MP David Nuttall

24 October 2011: The motion calling for a referendum on EU membership is defeated in the Commons by 483 votes to 111. However, 81 Tory MPs support it and a further two actively abstain - making it by far the largest ever Conservative rebellion over Europe. In addition, 19 Labour MPs and one Liberal Democrat defy their party leadership in urging a referendum

Carryfast:
I don’t remember German workers ever helping their British counterparts in the case of jobs being lost from British industry to German imports and the unions here were actually stronger before we joined the EEC because we were a net exporter of manufactured goods and self sufficient in coal.So you’re saying the national health service didn’t exist before 1973.The reality is that the NHS had more money coming in while the taxes needed to pay for it were lower before we joined.Because we weren’t paying a fortune to the EU in contributions and we had more people employed in British industry before we gave it all away to the Germans and now the global free market economy. :unamused:

…and breathe. :smiley: