Europe yes or no

Andrejs:
The migrant drivers are not problem, cos they work for the same salary like the british collagues. At british companies, of course.
100 percent correct.and more.
why migraNTS can found driving jobs,but some people who born here can t found job???what you think.
yes of course all depend from area where live people but may be some young person don t want work for drivers,may be don t like taked risk,may be like aplly just for benefits.may be get better jobs.,may be like do nothing.

I don’t think there’s any shortgage of British drivers willing to work for the national average wage.No surprise though that the road transport industry isn’t one of those where the national average wage ( on a per hour basis ) applies in many cases and the immigrant labour issue doesn’t help that situation.

As for young British people,not wanting to work in whatever job,including driving,how do you explain the issue of east european immigrants taking British jobs while our own young people end up in Afghanistan just like Russian conscripts did. :unamused:

Carryfast:
As for AETR who gives a zb.As I said I’m sure there’s plenty of scope,within the type of trade deficit which we’ve had with the EU ever since we joined it,to make the case that British trucks will run wherever they want to run subject to the regs which apply in their country of registration.If the EU wants to argue and make a trade war of it then bring it on because we can only win in such a war.

I’ve got to admire this dream world you live in. People would pay a fortune for drugs that have that effect.

Carryfast:
But I think we were actually importing a few Jap crap motors even then for anyone who really wanted one instead of one of those.

No we weren’t actually importing many Jap crap motors in 1969 because the buyers knew better back then and had more money in their pockets.

As for the referendum I knew that Harold Wilson was a waste of space,just like Callaghan and Thatcher amongst ‘others’ running the yes campaign,even before I was old enough to vote. :smiling_imp: :wink:

By the way by ‘export’ of ‘British made’ Jap cars does that mean from foundry to finished product including most of the sub contract componentry :question: and you didn’t answer that question related to the actual numbers of British workers emmployed in the British car industry and it’s suppliers in 1969 compared to today.

The employee numbers were many more, but you have to choose between quality and quantity, from 1969 there would be 17 people sweeping up one production line, now 2 men will do the whole plant with modern machinery, much the same as the rest of the plant. As you talk of 1969 and BLMC being the major manufacturer, the new “exciting” vehicles in the car parc were Maxi, Dolomite and Toledo, all world beaters■■?

telegraph.co.uk/finance/comm … r-war.html

Interestingly I discovered that in 1975 there were 3,500,000 new cars sold in Germany and France, of which only 7204 were of British manufacture

Carryfast:

Andrejs:
The migrant drivers are not problem, cos they work for the same salary like the british collagues. At british companies, of course.
100 percent correct.and more.
why migraNTS can found driving jobs,but some people who born here can t found job???what you think.
yes of course all depend from area where live people but may be some young person don t want work for drivers,may be don t like taked risk,may be like aplly just for benefits.may be get better jobs.,may be like do nothing.

E
I don’t think there’s any shortgage of British drivers willing to work for the national average wage.No surprise though that the road transport industry isn’t one of those where the national average wage ( on a per hour basis ) applies in many cases and the immigrant labour issue doesn’t help that situation.

As for young British people,not wanting to work in whatever job,including driving,how do you explain the issue of east european immigrants taking British jobs while our own young people end up in Afghanistan just like Russian conscripts did. :unamused:

Carryfast I don’t know if you haven’t noticed national service finished in 1960. Any British troop serving in Afghanistan or anywhere else joined of there own free will.
The rights and wrongs of it are however a total different subject.

Just another scenario , that I don’t think anyone has considered.

Is this just a Cameron pledge or a Conservative party pledge, I ask this because what could also happen is let say people fall for this bs and cons get in and either a no confidence vote on Cameron takes place or he just stands down then if this is not a Conservative party pledge then there is nothing stopping the new leader of the conservatives from just saying well I/ the party didn’t make the pledge and Cameron shouldn’t have made personal pledges. They have then got in for another term with a referendum get out clause as an added bonus.

Not saying this is the case but I for one will never trust conservatives or labour , I also think that previous lib dem voters will also vote ukip because clegg has proved he can not be trusted. Add these to loyal ukip voters and strays from conservatives and labour then theoretically ukip could come out on top ( remote but still a possibility)

Anyway if it was held today I would vote out but don’t think it will happen.

Wheel Nut:

Carryfast:
But I think we were actually importing a few Jap crap motors even then for anyone who really wanted one instead of one of those.

No we weren’t actually importing many Jap crap motors in 1969 because the buyers knew better back then and had more money in their pockets.

As for the referendum I knew that Harold Wilson was a waste of space,just like Callaghan and Thatcher amongst ‘others’ running the yes campaign,even before I was old enough to vote. :smiling_imp: :wink:

By the way by ‘export’ of ‘British made’ Jap cars does that mean from foundry to finished product including most of the sub contract componentry :question: and you didn’t answer that question related to the actual numbers of British workers emmployed in the British car industry and it’s suppliers in 1969 compared to today.

The employee numbers were many more, but you have to choose between quality and quantity, from 1969 there would be 17 people sweeping up one production line, now 2 men will do the whole plant with modern machinery, much the same as the rest of the plant. As you talk of 1969 and BLMC being the major manufacturer, the new “exciting” vehicles in the car parc were Maxi, Dolomite and Toledo, all world beaters■■?

telegraph.co.uk/finance/comm … r-war.html

Interestingly I discovered that in 1975 there were 3,500,000 new cars sold in Germany and France, of which only 7204 were of British manufacture

Right so we are talking British leyland Realy as ford and vauxhall/Opel would be selling European built cortinas escorts etc.
The mini although cute and quirky was very old hat by 75 Renault had the 5 by then which was modern stylish and comfy.
The allegro v the golf I’d go for the golf
The marina v the passat mk1
The maxi v the Audi 80
Triumph dolomite v the outgoing BMW 2002 and the new 3 series
Triumph 2000/2500 coming to the end if its life against the 5 series BMW or Audi 100
Rover p6 then the sd1 against mercs w123
Carry fasts beloved xj6 xj12 although way more stylish than the big mercs and the BMW 7 series had no where near the build quality of a BMW 7 series or merc.

This isms only ones off the top of my head and no doubt the British models which ended up as the but if jokes will be better some how.

But in seriousness what went wrong if you look at the list the British cars I’ve mentioned that were 60s designs like the triumph 2000 and river p6 and the mini of the 50s were great vehicles in there day but come the 70s it all went wrong.

Wheel Nut:

Carryfast:
But I think we were actually importing a few Jap crap motors even then for anyone who really wanted one instead of one of those.

No we weren’t actually importing many Jap crap motors in 1969 because the buyers knew better back then and had more money in their pockets.

As for the referendum I knew that Harold Wilson was a waste of space,just like Callaghan and Thatcher amongst ‘others’ running the yes campaign,even before I was old enough to vote. :smiling_imp: :wink:

By the way by ‘export’ of ‘British made’ Jap cars does that mean from foundry to finished product including most of the sub contract componentry :question: and you didn’t answer that question related to the actual numbers of British workers emmployed in the British car industry and it’s suppliers in 1969 compared to today.

The employee numbers were many more, but you have to choose between quality and quantity, from 1969 there would be 17 people sweeping up one production line, now 2 men will do the whole plant with modern machinery, much the same as the rest of the plant. As you talk of 1969 and BLMC being the major manufacturer, the new “exciting” vehicles in the car parc were Maxi, Dolomite and Toledo, all world beaters■■?

telegraph.co.uk/finance/comm … r-war.html

Interestingly I discovered that in 1975 there were 3,500,000 new cars sold in Germany and France, of which only 7204 were of British manufacture

I said we were importing ‘a few’ Jap crap motors but we ‘weren’t importing many’ so where’s the problem with that being that those two statements are entirely consistent with each other. :unamused:

I wasn’t referring to production line sweepers being that in the truck factory where I worked the sweeper was just that one sweeper who also drove the forklift.I was referring to front line production workers working in every type of sector concerning vehicle production from steel making to final inspection and test drivers. :bulb: It’s noticeable that you didn’t actually answer that question concerning that type of employment amounts then compared to now as opposed to just the sweeper and forklift driver.

I think your figures concerning car sales in Germany and France actually confirms my case concerning the trade deficit which we’ve always run in the EEC/EU after opening up our markets to euro imports.But no the exciting products in the British car parks before we joined the EEC were the larger engined models made by Jaguar,Rover,Triumph and Ford and Vauxhall.IE Jag Mk2,S type,XJ6/12,Rover 2000/3500,Triumph 2.5 PI,Ford Zodiac and Vauxhall Ventora etc.The type of description which you’ve provided is just typical selective bollox.When in fact the Germans and the French were never going to chuck their own economies down the tubes by buying imports from us or each other for that matter even though at that time most British car products,as I’ve described,were superior to theirs.

Although no surprise that the Germans were the ones who capitalised on the superiority of the large front engined rear wheel drive format,while Ford and GM increasingly handed that sector over to Cologne and Russelsheim at the expense of Dagenham and Luton.While everyone else here was zb’ing about with increasingly going for zb front wheel drive technology just like the French using descriptions like ‘new’ and ‘exciting’,to lower the expectations of British workers, because the government knew what what was coming when we handed the country’s interests over to ze Germans to keep them happy.All to make sure that the zb’s wouldn’t invade their neighbours in future and to show the East Gerrmans what a wonderful place West Germany was by comparison with their own commie zb hole. :unamused:

The rest is history and no matter how you try to dress it up the state of the economy today compared to how it stood up to 1972 says it all. :unamused: :imp:

OUT!!!
The United Kingdom shouldn’t be ruled by former member of “Bund Deutscher Mädel” or “Hitler-Jugend”.

kr79:

Wheel Nut:

Carryfast:
But I think we were actually importing a few Jap crap motors even then for anyone who really wanted one instead of one of those.

No we weren’t actually importing many Jap crap motors in 1969 because the buyers knew better back then and had more money in their pockets.

As for the referendum I knew that Harold Wilson was a waste of space,just like Callaghan and Thatcher amongst ‘others’ running the yes campaign,even before I was old enough to vote. :smiling_imp: :wink:

By the way by ‘export’ of ‘British made’ Jap cars does that mean from foundry to finished product including most of the sub contract componentry :question: and you didn’t answer that question related to the actual numbers of British workers emmployed in the British car industry and it’s suppliers in 1969 compared to today.

The employee numbers were many more, but you have to choose between quality and quantity, from 1969 there would be 17 people sweeping up one production line, now 2 men will do the whole plant with modern machinery, much the same as the rest of the plant. As you talk of 1969 and BLMC being the major manufacturer, the new “exciting” vehicles in the car parc were Maxi, Dolomite and Toledo, all world beaters■■?

telegraph.co.uk/finance/comm … r-war.html

Interestingly I discovered that in 1975 there were 3,500,000 new cars sold in Germany and France, of which only 7204 were of British manufacture

Right so we are talking British leyland Realy as ford and vauxhall/Opel would be selling European built cortinas escorts etc.
The mini although cute and quirky was very old hat by 75 Renault had the 5 by then which was modern stylish and comfy.
The allegro v the golf I’d go for the golf
The marina v the passat mk1
The maxi v the Audi 80
Triumph dolomite v the outgoing BMW 2002 and the new 3 series
Triumph 2000/2500 coming to the end if its life against the 5 series BMW or Audi 100
Rover p6 then the sd1 against mercs w123
Carry fasts beloved xj6 xj12 although way more stylish than the big mercs and the BMW 7 series had no where near the build quality of a BMW 7 series or merc.

This isms only ones off the top of my head and no doubt the British models which ended up as the but if jokes will be better some how.

But in seriousness what went wrong if you look at the list the British cars I’ve mentioned that were 60s designs like the triumph 2000 and river p6 and the mini of the 50s were great vehicles in there day but come the 70s it all went wrong.

I think you’ve missed the issue of the difference in value for money.The Merc was built like a tank because it was priced like one.But.For the money the XJ12 knocked zb out of it’s Merc and BMW competitors.Having said that most of those so called ‘build quality’ issues were just bs pro German propaganda.I should know being that I had a BMW E3 which was also a direct competitor to the XJ12 during the 1970’s and was an inferior car all round while being a lot more expensive when it was new.Ironically the reason why I chose the BMW was because it had depreciated like a stone compared to a Jaguar of the same age so it was a lot cheaper to buy.While the 7 series just compounded those issues.None of which seems consistent with the bs concerning so called superior German build quality as confirmed by the amount needed to maintain the thing even though it had only covered 57,000 miles when I bought it.Rust being one of it’s worst issues unlike the XJ12’s I’ve had since then.

As for a 5 series v a Triumph 2.5 PI for the price no contest being that the BM still had the same type of suspension as the Triumph and the Triumph was still a better looking car even though it was an older design.The only bit that went wrong during the 1970’s was the decision to go for the SD1 instead of just putting the Rover V8 in the Triumph and sell the thing for ( a lot ) less than the BM just as before.In which case you’ve got a car that’s just as quick,assuming increased capacity development such as used in the TVR,and a lot easier and cheaper to maintain.In addition to which if we’d have stayed out of the EEC we could have put massive trade tarrifs on German imports making the choice even more of a no brainer.But at that time no there was no connection between the German GM Opel and Ford Cologne cars and their British couterparts made by Ford Dagenham and Vauxhall Luton.They were both British and European market specific.

youtube.com/watch?feature=en … j-OOymsxcE

youtube.com/watch?v=vsfc8IRw5Y4

As for Austin Morris the place should have been shut down or turned over to Triumph and Rover production when the Cambridge and Westminster line had reached it’s sell by date.While cars in the Audi 80,Passat,Marina and Dolomite class,let alone the Maxi and Allegro,are/were just a poverty spec symptom of an underpaid workforce and an underperforming economy.

While in all cases joining the EEC was never an option unless you wanted to wreck the British economy. :bulb:

The only answer is ‘OUT’. Why would we want to be associated with a grouping whose accountants have been unable to sign the books off for,what is it now 18/19 years due to
corruption/they don’t know where the money has gone.That made the Kinnock family very,very rich and loooked after Mandelson admirably and worst of all might at some time in
the future have Tony Blair as President.And then will not allow this tiny island of ours to restrict the number of immigrants who wish to come here.We can survive outside the EC
and we would continue to trade,the lorries coming from Europe are all usually fully loaded and most go back across the Channel empty we might just have to reduce our population
sending masses back from whence they came.And if Scotland gains independence and remains part of Europe and it all goes wrong then we can all move over the Border and live
on Scottish benefits/pies and deep fried Mars Bars.

A message for “Carryfast”,I realise that you may never have read the Daily Mail “CF” however if you could get your 'ands on last Saturday’s copy there’s a cracking article explaining why Dave is more-or-less a carbon copy of that slippery old ■■■■ Wilson and that Daves “game plan” is identical to the one Wilson promoted in the mid 70’s,the analysis was basically promising something that they knew they couldn’t deliver!!and,if you could read the Mail on Sunday that ■■■■■■ Blair has come out and said he agrees with 90% of what Dave said in his speech !And as for that ■■■■■■ Milliband well he has well and truly ■■■■■■ on his chips by refusing to allow a referrendum and refusing to acknowledge there is an immigration problem,so if Nigel at UKIP keeps up the pressure he should do well at both the EURO and the General elections as he should sweep up dissafected Tory votes and surely the working class Labour supporters should see the light and stick two fingers up at Milliband ! Cheers Bewick.

Bewick:
A message for “Carryfast”,I realise that you may never have read the Daily Mail “CF” however if you could get your 'ands on last Saturday’s copy there’s a cracking article explaining why Dave is more-or-less a carbon copy of that slippery old [zb] Wilson and that Daves “game plan” is identical to the one Wilson promoted in the mid 70’s,the analysis was basically promising something that they knew they couldn’t deliver!!and,if you could read the Mail on Sunday that [zb] Blair has come out and said he agrees with 90% of what Dave said in his speech !And as for that ■■■■■■ Milliband well he has well and truly ■■■■■■ on his chips by refusing to allow a referrendum and refusing to acknowledge there is an immigration problem,so if Nigel at UKIP keeps up the pressure he should do well at both the EURO and the General elections as he should sweep up dissafected Tory votes and surely the working class Labour supporters should see the light and stick two fingers up at Milliband ! Cheers Bewick.

Absolutely agree 110% with that Bewick.Heath,Wilson,Callaghan,Thatcher,Blair,Clegg,Cameron,and Miliband they’re all the same bunch of total tossers every one of em. :imp: :wink:

But a coalition between a Powell led Conservative Party and a Shore led Labour Party would have been a different matter. :smiling_imp: :wink:

As for Farage the word is he’s just another Thatcherite and as we all know she was part of the yes campaign together with Wilson the last time and then she did more damage to British industry and it’s workers than Hitler. :open_mouth: So it’s probably a case of stay at home and don’t bother voting for me.

Eu were the cause of the cod war

I thought it was the Haddock getting it’s own back personally…

Good old Enoch who was behind the immigration in the 50s

Bewick:
A message for “Carryfast”,I realise that you may never have read the Daily Mail “CF” however if you could get your 'ands on last Saturday’s copy there’s a cracking article explaining why Dave is more-or-less a carbon copy of that slippery old [zb] Wilson and that Daves “game plan” is identical to the one Wilson promoted in the mid 70’s,the analysis was basically promising something that they knew they couldn’t deliver!!and,if you could read the Mail on Sunday that [zb] Blair has come out and said he agrees with 90% of what Dave said in his speech !And as for that ■■■■■■ Milliband well he has well and truly ■■■■■■ on his chips by refusing to allow a referrendum and refusing to acknowledge there is an immigration problem,so if Nigel at UKIP keeps up the pressure he should do well at both the EURO and the General elections as he should sweep up dissafected Tory votes and surely the working class Labour supporters should see the light and stick two fingers up at Milliband ! Cheers Bewick.

I wholeheartedly agree with all this Bewick your spot on. I heard Milliband whining on on The World Service tother day, kin hilarious He’s ■■■■■■ & He knows it, who would ever vote for Him & his gang of cronies I don’t know.

My own twopenneth is We would be a far stronger country if we flicked The EU the bird, I think Merkel wanting to hear our grievences proves this, nothing wrong with free trade in a small block of countries similar. It came as no suprise to Me The French going A’ la Carte over what was said they just can’t cope & are falling apart, how many of there industries are government funded through the back door? Yeah lets get our skates on & ■■■■ quickly I say 2017 is too late.

A note to the none believers I’ll bet none of You remember The EU before the wall came down, You need to give going it alone ago we have done it before & can easily do it again. Permits/T-forms/Carnets/Visas bring it on I say.

kr79:
Good old Enoch who was behind the immigration in the 50s

To be fair no one is perfect and he was a Tory and concerning the issue of immigration and EEC membership he was probably the best of a bad bunch.In this case it was a choice of him,Heath and even worse Thatcher. :open_mouth: :smiling_imp: :laughing:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enoch_Powe … tive_Party

fly sheet:

Bewick:
A message for “Carryfast”,I realise that you may never have read the Daily Mail “CF” however if you could get your 'ands on last Saturday’s copy there’s a cracking article explaining why Dave is more-or-less a carbon copy of that slippery old [zb] Wilson and that Daves “game plan” is identical to the one Wilson promoted in the mid 70’s,the analysis was basically promising something that they knew they couldn’t deliver!!and,if you could read the Mail on Sunday that [zb] Blair has come out and said he agrees with 90% of what Dave said in his speech !And as for that ■■■■■■ Milliband well he has well and truly ■■■■■■ on his chips by refusing to allow a referrendum and refusing to acknowledge there is an immigration problem,so if Nigel at UKIP keeps up the pressure he should do well at both the EURO and the General elections as he should sweep up dissafected Tory votes and surely the working class Labour supporters should see the light and stick two fingers up at Milliband ! Cheers Bewick.

I wholeheartedly agree with all this Bewick your spot on. I heard Milliband whining on on The World Service tother day, kin hilarious He’s [zb] & He knows it, who would ever vote for Him & his gang of cronies I don’t know.

That’s an understatement he’s a bigger zb than Blair if that’s possible. :open_mouth: :smiling_imp:

BUT.Having said that. :open_mouth:

mcsoxford.org/news/michaelma … visits-mcs

Which would certainly make Farage and his party unelectable in my view.No surprise he’s obviously conveniently forgotten that,like Heath,the ‘Iron Lady’ supported Britain’s membership of the EEC/EU and she was part of the yes campaign together with Wilson an Callaghan when we last had the chance to get out.As I’ve said often before the 1970’s were a turning point in Britain’s history and there’s probably no way back now and certainly not with another Thatcherite Party running the show.In which case we’d probably just be jumping out of the frying pan of a trade deficit with the EU and being told what to do by the Germans into the fire of an even bigger one with China and even closer ties to the Chinese Communist Party. :unamused:

Carryfast:
‘…’[T]rillions’ of pounds haven’t gone to any faceless ‘servants’…’

Then maybe tell us idiots who is the EU’s Chancellor or the Head of the EU Treasury - especially since the audit - into which we pay approx £50 million per day - hasn’t been signed-off as being accountable in the EU for over a decade :wink:

Carryfast:
‘…As for Britain’s so called democracy and self governance … staying part of an increasingly federal europe isn’t going to improve that issue…’

Exactly