EU POLL - New as of 20/2/16

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
161

Boris Johnson, the Conservative mayor of London, has dismissed Cameron’s “Project Fact” claim as “baloney”.
Speaking on a visit to Northern Ireland, Johnson said people had “everything to gain” from leaving the EU.

I wonder what is baloney, but some fact cant be ignored just because he doesnt like them. Speaking of trade agreements UK is part of as member of EU.
How long will take if both partners are willing to negotiate can be seen in the charts.
And that’s just one direction we are talking about - trade. What will happen with people from both side of the isle, no one seems to care from the political spectrum.

“Pawel Swidlicki, an analyst at the Open Europe thinktank, has written a blog assessing how realistic are the claims in today’s government report on withdrawing from the EU (pdf).
He includes these charts showing how long it has taken to negotiate other free trade deals”.
Given all the above, it is clear that post-Brexit negotiations would be complex and take a significant amount of time – though no-one can really be precise about how long they would take. Generally, striking an FTA takes anywhere between four and ten years. When it comes to the UK-EU negotiations the importance of the deal and the extent of the links between the two sides could cut both ways. On the one hand, given that the two sides are each other’s largest single trading partner, there could well be significant pressure to move swiftly ahead with the negotiations, while the existing cohesion might make this possible.

However, on the other hand, the deal will be incredibly complex to negotiate and will encompass not only a free trade deal but also tying up all the other lose ends from Brexit – ranging from the status of UK nationals in the EU and vice-versa to tricky issues around Gibraltar and Northern Ireland. Furthermore, as our EU Wargames simulation showed, there may be a desire to drag out the negotiations in order to ward off those who may want to follow the UK’s lead.

‘Brexit’ fears haunt London’s roaring trade in euros
uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britai … 3020150722

What would Brexit mean for everyday life in the UK?
theguardian.com/politics/201 … ryday-life

Trade deals negotiations in years so far.

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162

YAWN !

Couple of teensy weensy fings u forgot to mention :

1> we have a trade DEFICIT of £1 billion/week with EU .

2> our exports ALREADY comply with EU bureaucracy

3> any economic benefit from trading with EU must be divided by immigration ie : GDP = GNP/population .

4> UK already a member of group with free trade agreements with EU = Commonwealth !

5> if EU get arsey good for us . the best exporting countries in world (ex germany) are not in EU ie China , South Korea , Australia etc etc

6> if EU was just a free trade organisation we wouldnt have a problem with it .

163

The Immigration Lie

we all know that the figures people like Dolph And DaveCam quote are false ." 300K immigrants only last year" for example .

they of course only talk official net figures .

real figure is over the 650K national insurance numbers issued last year . over ? yes because kids dont get NI numbers , and neither do people working here through foreign firms/agencies , nor people working illegally .

““The official statistics on immigration may be as illusory as Ms May’s executive rigour. We are told that 265,000 EU migrants came to Britain last year yet the Government admits that at least 630,000 EU arrivals were issued with National Insurance numbers in the past 12 months.””

express.co.uk/comment/expres … nt-comment

this has been going on since Tory Bliar days .

officially we have had 2.5 million immigrants since 2004 .

everyone knows this is nonsense .

realistically the absolute lowest figure possible is 6.5 million .

marketoracle.co.uk/Article54205.html

and … we also learn that official immigration figures do not count anyone who claims to want to come for LESS than 1 year !!

""The ONS uses the UN-recommended definition of a long-term international migrant as a person living in a country for at least a year to make it their “usual residence”. “”

independent.co.uk/news/uk/po … 97206.html

im not going to delve into numbers of uncontrolled unskilled workers from RomBulHunPol socially backward countries as i will become depressed .

similarly figures showing what each unskilled immigrant costs the country. but read it here :UK Out of Control Immigration Crisis Continues, Tax Credits, EU Referendum and BrExit :: The Market Oracle ::

it must be impossible for any person who cares about their kids future to vote to remain in the bloody idiot union . unless they are totally nuts

164

Хахаха that’s great, now you can show us how you gonna integrate Slovakian gypsy and any gypsy.
Why the hell you continue to give benefits to people who are abusing the system, they are telling in your face that they are benefit scroungers and nothing happen?

P.S. 92% of Bulgarian gypsy are unemployed, uneducated and/or illiterate, they survive on benefits, theft, prostitution and begging, also 90% of prison population in Bulgaria is made up of gypsy’s. This people refuse to integrate for the past 26 years, despite being given opportunities numerous times. Only the communst party was able to force them to go to school and work back in the commie days.

As of you claim that 6.5 million EU migrants live in UK, yeah right…More like you are invaded by 10 million soviets :unamused:
The size of the foreign-born population in the UK increased from about 3.8 million in 1993 to over 8.3 million in 2014.

Table 3 - Top ten sender countries of migrants by country of birth and nationality, UK 2013
Country of birth Percentage share

India 9.2%
Poland 9.1%
Pakistan 6.0%
Ireland 4.4%
Germany 3.6%
South Africa 2.5%
Nigeria 2.4%
Bangladesh 2.4%
Romania 2.2%
United States 2.0%

migrationobservatory.ox.ac.u … k-overview

P.S. You see, without national ID card you don’t even know who’s in your country and in what numbers :grimacing:

165

wot has 2013 got to do with anything ■■

last time i checked its 2016 , and we have been suffering immigration at up to 1 million a year

im not surprised , your statistics are always wrong !

also who mentioned anything about gypsies ■■

just let your prejudices flow mr racist . gypsies are just foreign and no more or less foreign , or welcome , than any other foreigner .

166

boredwivdrivin:
wot has 2013 got to do with anything ■■

last time i checked its 2016 , and we have been suffering immigration at up to 1 million a year

im not surprised , your statistics are always wrong !

also who mentioned anything about gypsies ■■

just let your prejudices flow mr racist . gypsies are just foreign and no more or less foreign , or welcome , than any other foreigner .

Did you personally counted everyone at the border?
The video on one of the links you posted about benefit scroungers, they are Slovakian gypsies. Prejudice■■? The difference between me and you is that I know what gypsies are like: lazy, criminal benefit scroungers that will drain the social system in a blink of an eye.
You are smart as a door knob if you think gypsies are the same are ordinary citizens of any given EE country. But Im not surprise, as we all know you prefer illegal invaders from Afghanistan then legal immigrants from Eastern Europe.

167

Dolph:
Boris Johnson, the Conservative mayor of London, has dismissed Cameron’s “Project Fact” claim as “baloney”.
Speaking on a visit to Northern Ireland, Johnson said people had “everything to gain” from leaving the EU.

I wonder what is baloney, but some fact cant be ignored just because he doesnt like them. Speaking of trade agreements UK is part of as member of EU.
How long will take if both partners are willing to negotiate can be seen in the charts.
And that’s just one direction we are talking about - trade. What will happen with people from both side of the isle, no one seems to care from the political spectrum.

“Pawel Swidlicki, an analyst at the Open Europe thinktank, has written a blog assessing how realistic are the claims in today’s government report on withdrawing from the EU (pdf).
He includes these charts showing how long it has taken to negotiate other free trade deals”.
Given all the above, it is clear that post-Brexit negotiations would be complex and take a significant amount of time – though no-one can really be precise about how long they would take. Generally, striking an FTA takes anywhere between four and ten years. When it comes to the UK-EU negotiations the importance of the deal and the extent of the links between the two sides could cut both ways. On the one hand, given that the two sides are each other’s largest single trading partner, there could well be significant pressure to move swiftly ahead with the negotiations, while the existing cohesion might make this possible.

However, on the other hand, the deal will be incredibly complex to negotiate and will encompass not only a free trade deal but also tying up all the other lose ends from Brexit – ranging from the status of UK nationals in the EU and vice-versa to tricky issues around Gibraltar and Northern Ireland. Furthermore, as our EU Wargames simulation showed, there may be a desire to drag out the negotiations in order to ward off those who may want to follow the UK’s lead.

‘Brexit’ fears haunt London’s roaring trade in euros
uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britai … 3020150722

What would Brexit mean for everyday life in the UK?
theguardian.com/politics/201 … ryday-life

Trade deals negotiations in years so far.

Blimey Dolph when will you start to realise that the EU can’t win a trade war from a position of massive trade surplus.IE bring it on we would actually benefit by it.Although your bs ideas are obviously based on the delusion that the EU imposing trade sanctions on us can only be a one sided tactic of which we can’t retaliate to much better,and beneficial for us,effect.Good luck with that approach.

168

Dolph:

boredwivdrivin:
wot has 2013 got to do with anything ■■

last time i checked its 2016 , and we have been suffering immigration at up to 1 million a year

im not surprised , your statistics are always wrong !

also who mentioned anything about gypsies ■■

just let your prejudices flow mr racist . gypsies are just foreign and no more or less foreign , or welcome , than any other foreigner .

Did you personally counted everyone at the border?
The video on one of the links you posted about benefit scroungers, they are Slovakian gypsies. Prejudice■■? The difference between me and you is that I know what gypsies are like: lazy, criminal benefit scroungers that will drain the social system in a blink of an eye.
You are smart as a door knob if you think gypsies are the same are ordinary citizens of any given EE country. But Im not surprise, as we all know you prefer illegal invaders from Afghanistan then legal immigrants from Eastern Europe.

You seem to have missed the point that us leaving the EU makes it ‘easier’ for ‘us’ to actually keep ‘out’ your emigrant parasitic gypsy problem.As opposed to if we stay we have to offer them freedom of movement. :unamused:

As for them claiming benefits in your own place that’s your problem not ours.

As for the African and Asian invasion we’re facing at the moment that has more to do with the Socialist zbwit Merkel letting them all in than anything to do with us.Again like the East Euro gypsy problem we’ve got more chance of stopping them,by telling that mad old Stasi hag to zb off,if we’re out not in. :bulb:

169

Let’s take a step back and look at it from a neutral standpoint politically:

Let’s say that ALL “facts and figures” given to us are guff. No one really knows what any real figures are at all. Are we losing now? Will we lose post-brexit? Will be be right-royally shafted one way or the other?

Let’s be self-centred, and see it from the “I’m alright jack” point of view…

WHAT are we experiencing now? - Cushy life? Not as good as 10 years ago? Plumbing a new depth day by day? - That’s a question only each one of us can answer in our own lives as it stands.

What the referendum is really about is "Do we want things as they are to continue - or would we like a change?

People living it large right now - are going to want to stay the same.
People who are better off than they used to be, but feel insecure right now - are going to not want to gamble with any unknowns.

Only people who can see a clear detriment to their lifestyles - both already and more so in the future - will be voting “OUT”.

One would think that that is “most of us”.

The bookmaker’s price has been constant these past few weeks though 1.43 (decimal odds) on us staying in the EU. 4/11 on in terms of bookmaker’s traditional odds.

In terms of votes, that’s about 33% for “IN”, 32% for “OUT” and 35% who won’t vote. They are the type of people who’ll let their phone go off in the cinema, poke your kid in the eye with a handbag, and huff righteuous indignation at the fact that you are going to claim a “spongers” pension soon (!) paid for by their taxes that they’ve already paid an accountant to get out of.

That 35% for “can’t be arsed” then are the lowest of the low. The people who’ll screw everyone over, even themselves because they really don’t care.

What was the definition of “Evil” again?

Meanings are in people - not words. :frowning:

As it stands though, these uncaring people are going to be the ones that shaft us all, as they are in the majority, and that’s where we’ll be going in the future. With what they want for all of us.

I watched a historical programme on BBC Iplayer made in 2008. In it, there were some scenes shot at Palmyra, (now destroyed) and some homely scenes shot in Syrian cities (now destroyed)

All this because the people became divided in a Civil War. ISIS are a faction bred out of the most evil third of THEIR population, added to similar folk from northern Iraq and northern Iran.

All this banging on about “Hitler - a warning from History” when it comes to the “rise” of right-wing parties. So much effort is made to get the public away from such political thinking though - that no one is seeing just how divided up we are becoming in this country - not from political conflict, but Demographic conflict!

We need to reform our entire political lives in the West - before we fall into a civil war of our own.

ISIS combatants were created out of the ashes of the losers of Civil War.

We could easily see this country so weakened by much more unchecked immigration/atheism/don’t give a damnism 0 that those uncaring third of people - become the “new rising power” when the INs and OUTs effectively cancel each other out post-referendum, when the “losing side” (“out camp”) feels quite rightly that it was robbed.

THIS is why the result needs to be a MASSIVE majority one way or the other - a neck and neck split will not do. It’s downright dangerous for not just the UK, but the rest of the western Hemisphere, as it’ll encourage other nations like America to swing to an even greater extreme politically - to try and prevent such a fate to befall them!

170

Dolph, we note and thank you kindly for your (very nearly rabid) concerns over Britains imminent exit from the EU experiment. Just one question however; why are so many mainland Europeans so concerned about Britain leaving? Gravy train derailed perhaps?

171

the maoster:
Dolph, we note and thank you kindly for your (very nearly rabid) concerns over Britains imminent exit from the EU experiment. Just one question however; why are so many mainland Europeans so concerned about Britain leaving? Gravy train derailed perhaps?

Who are this “so many mainland Europeans”?

172

The Tripod of Germany, France and the UK is effectively bankrolling the entire EU social experiment of “open gates to all”.

If Britain leaves, then France will become like Scotland became after the referendum went the “wrong way” for ordinary Scots. They’ll push for another general election of their own to give Le Penn another crack at getting into power, now that it’s been proven that “it can be done” and of course “she was right the first time”.

Without Britain, Germany will initially try and divide up the cost of Britain leaving among France and Germany. That’ll mean France ends up carrying the can then, as Germany will not suddenly start paying for even 50% of bill for this “social engineering experiment disaster” - let alone the 100% if might have to pay - if France legs it as well!

Of course, Germany will just dissolve the EU project at that point, before they get landed with the bill.

Leaving countries (everyone since the EU is now being disbanded) will be told that ALL debts to the ECB must still be honoured, but NO more “aid” monies will be paid out of EU coffers. All the money therein belongs to “swung the other way” Deutschland, as dictated to by the Bankers keeping the Holocaust Hand-Wringers in office.
This “pound of flesh” argument of the ECB is something we’ve come to expect of the banking system, and those who remain in their ivory towers running the banks.

This would leave those nations in the most severe recession imaginable - perhaps even worse than 1920’s Germany, after the enforcement of WWI reparations effectively ripped the guts out of the entire economy there.

Now… With THIS much downside to “Britain leaving” - you’d think they’d OFFER anything to keep us in… But they are not! They just arrogantly think they can bull the entire electorate over here with promises of “reforms will come after you vote to stay in”… Always the “Jam Tomorrow” deal just like we ex-Union members know all too well as being the catch-all management offer that you don’t take to the workforce - but you take to the press and rubbish the union membership in the eyes of the public… “Greedy Doctors won’t work weekends for their fat pay cheques” or “Postman still intend to strike after 40% pay offer” or even “Coal miners murdering ethnic taxi drivers. Rate hate crimes MUST be stamped upon!” … Ringing any bells?

It’s easy to dress up one event as being the cause or effect of another unrelated matter. That’s politics.

It’s time we changed the politics. We can’t get rid of our idiot leaders mid-term, and the opposition are beneath idiocy themselves by not even bothering to take the counter argument…

So. We must upset the applecart ourselves - whilst we still can.

The resentment post-Scottish referendum was palpable. It’s going to be a whole lot worse for both those who voted IN as it is for OUT after, bearing in mind that I’ve already stated in the previous post above that it is the DON’T CARE faction that currently stands to “win” the EU referendum…

If I was the Pope, I might say “Everyone can expect a punch” following a split result. Just make sure you know which shoulder to look over when the time comes - OR try and talk your neighbour into “getting out there and voting”… If everyone DOES vote - the result won’t be anywhere near 50/50. It’ll be 60/40 at least, which is a good sized step in the right direction, if we’re going to continue with "Democracy - that worst form of government - except all the others that have been tried" as Churchill once said…

173

Winseer:
Let’s take a step back and look at it from a neutral standpoint politically:

Let’s say that ALL “facts and figures” given to us are guff. No one really knows what any real figures are at all. Are we losing now? Will we lose post-brexit? Will be be right-royally shafted one way or the other?

Let’s be self-centred, and see it from the “I’m alright jack” point of view…

WHAT are we experiencing now? - Cushy life? Not as good as 10 years ago? Plumbing a new depth day by day? - That’s a question only each one of us can answer in our own lives as it stands.

What the referendum is really about is "Do we want things as they are to continue - or would we like a change?

People living it large right now - are going to want to stay the same.
People who are better off than they used to be, but feel insecure right now - are going to not want to gamble with any unknowns.

Only people who can see a clear detriment to their lifestyles - both already and more so in the future - will be voting “OUT”.

One would think that that is “most of us”.

The bookmaker’s price has been constant these past few weeks though 1.43 (decimal odds) on us staying in the EU. 4/11 on in terms of bookmaker’s traditional odds.

In terms of votes, that’s about 33% for “IN”, 32% for “OUT” and 35% who won’t vote. They are the type of people who’ll let their phone go off in the cinema, poke your kid in the eye with a handbag, and huff righteuous indignation at the fact that you are going to claim a “spongers” pension soon (!) paid for by their taxes that they’ve already paid an accountant to get out of.

That 35% for “can’t be arsed” then are the lowest of the low. The people who’ll screw everyone over, even themselves because they really don’t care.

What was the definition of “Evil” again?

Meanings are in people - not words. :frowning:

As it stands though, these uncaring people are going to be the ones that shaft us all, as they are in the majority, and that’s where we’ll be going in the future. With what they want for all of us.

I watched a historical programme on BBC Iplayer made in 2008. In it, there were some scenes shot at Palmyra, (now destroyed) and some homely scenes shot in Syrian cities (now destroyed)

All this because the people became divided in a Civil War. ISIS are a faction bred out of the most evil third of THEIR population, added to similar folk from northern Iraq and northern Iran.

All this banging on about “Hitler - a warning from History” when it comes to the “rise” of right-wing parties. So much effort is made to get the public away from such political thinking though - that no one is seeing just how divided up we are becoming in this country - not from political conflict, but Demographic conflict!

We need to reform our entire political lives in the West - before we fall into a civil war of our own.

ISIS combatants were created out of the ashes of the losers of Civil War.

We could easily see this country so weakened by much more unchecked immigration/atheism/don’t give a damnism 0 that those uncaring third of people - become the “new rising power” when the INs and OUTs effectively cancel each other out post-referendum, when the “losing side” (“out camp”) feels quite rightly that it was robbed.

THIS is why the result needs to be a MASSIVE majority one way or the other - a neck and neck split will not do. It’s downright dangerous for not just the UK, but the rest of the western Hemisphere, as it’ll encourage other nations like America to swing to an even greater extreme politically - to try and prevent such a fate to befall them!

That misses the point that anti federalism and sovereignty is all about the ‘freedom’ to agree,disagree,or abstain as an electorate within our own defined historic national borders.That ‘freedom’ and ‘sovereignty’ being non negotiable and not something that can possibly be voted on by anyone to compromise or give away such as in the case of the treaties binding us to the EU Federation and its Federal governmental system.

IE this isn’t an issue of giving a zb about the vote either way because anything other than out vote is an illegitimate invalid result anyway regardless.In which case the lessons of history suggest if we don’t get out peacefully now by whatever means we’ll more than likely just be handing the issue on to future generations who’ll have to fight a war of secession to get their country and freedom back.In which case it’s all about a combination of the lessons from history of what took place in Yugoslavia and in the US war of secession

While the demographic implications,of our historic an ongoing open door non EU immigration agenda,are just adding to the above issues.But also now being not only the idiotic policies of our own government but also people like Merkel as part of EU Federalist rule.In which case we certainly can’t fix any of our immigration problems and resulting demographic implications by staying in the EU which is just making things worse.

The obvious inference being that if/when it does implode here it is more likely to be the type of multi sided inter ethnic and secessionist fight that we saw in the breakup of the former Yugoslavia.A war in this case that the immigrant demographic takeover of the country will win by having the EU federal government backing it in an alliance against the indigenous secessionist population.That’s the scenario that the zbwit pro immigration in vote is condemning future generations to.

174

Dolph:

the maoster:
Dolph, we note and thank you kindly for your (very nearly rabid) concerns over Britains imminent exit from the EU experiment. Just one question however; why are so many mainland Europeans so concerned about Britain leaving? Gravy train derailed perhaps?

Who are this “so many mainland Europeans”?

Germany and East Euros like yourself and the Poles for just two examples. :unamused:

175

Winseer:
The Tripod of Germany, France and the UK is effectively bankrolling the entire EU social experiment of “open gates to all”.

If Britain leaves, then France will become like Scotland became after the referendum went the “wrong way” for ordinary Scots. They’ll push for another general election of their own to give Le Penn another crack at getting into power, now that it’s been proven that “it can be done” and of course “she was right the first time”.

Without Britain, Germany will initially try and divide up the cost of Britain leaving among France and Germany. That’ll mean France ends up carrying the can then, as Germany will not suddenly start paying for even 50% of bill for this “social engineering experiment disaster” - let alone the 100% if might have to pay - if France legs it as well!

Of course, Germany will just dissolve the EU project at that point, before they get landed with the bill.

Leaving countries (everyone since the EU is now being disbanded) will be told that ALL debts to the ECB must still be honoured, but NO more “aid” monies will be paid out of EU coffers. All the money therein belongs to “swung the other way” Deutschland, as dictated to by the Bankers keeping the Holocaust Hand-Wringers in office.
This “pound of flesh” argument of the ECB is something we’ve come to expect of the banking system, and those who remain in their ivory towers running the banks.

This would leave those nations in the most severe recession imaginable

The question then being if that’s what would happen by us leaving now.What happens if we stay and when everyone suddenly realises that our net contributions are all just based on printed money and massive debt and resulting economic figures based on bs and lies.IE Ze Germans haf then won by turning us into another Greece by not only taking what money we had but by also getting us into massive debt to pay even more.With the Polish Communists in the form of Merkel etc having infiltrated ze German government to finish the job that Stalin started. :open_mouth:

176

Carryfast:

Dolph:

the maoster:
Dolph, we note and thank you kindly for your (very nearly rabid) concerns over Britains imminent exit from the EU experiment. Just one question however; why are so many mainland Europeans so concerned about Britain leaving? Gravy train derailed perhaps?

Who are this “so many mainland Europeans”?

Germany and East Euros like yourself and the Poles for just two examples. :unamused:

Im not concerned at all, I’ve state it numerous times, your country your choice.
We have a discussion here, or maybe others then Brits are not allowed??
Also as I’ve said before, I prefer UK out of EU, so we can continue building ever closer union aka United States of Europe, something that UK prevents for years.

theguardian.com/commentisfre … pean-union

177

Dolph:
Im not concerned at all, I’ve state it numerous times, your country your choice.
We have a discussion here, or maybe others then Brits are not allowed??
Also as I’ve said before, I prefer UK out of EU, so we can continue building ever closer union aka United States of Europe, something that UK prevents for years.

theguardian.com/commentisfre … pean-union

All based on the catastrophic delusion that German,or at least French, Nationalism won’t eventually win out over naive opportunist East Euro Federalism.Thereby leaving you where you started with a massive much bigger version of Yugoslavia. :open_mouth: :laughing: :laughing:

178

Carryfast:

Dolph:
Im not concerned at all, I’ve state it numerous times, your country your choice.
We have a discussion here, or maybe others then Brits are not allowed??
Also as I’ve said before, I prefer UK out of EU, so we can continue building ever closer union aka United States of Europe, something that UK prevents for years.

theguardian.com/commentisfre … pean-union

All based on the catastrophic delusion that German,or at least French, Nationalism won’t eventually win out over naive opportunist East Euro Federalism.Thereby leaving you where you started with a massive much bigger version of Yugoslavia. :open_mouth: :laughing: :laughing:

Yugoslavia way its only in your dreams, I don’t see German boots on the ground to keep Italy, France or Bulgaria into EU, something that Milosevic did.
Also no nationalism in the sense you are talking about, we saw Le Pan 2 on election day months ago…
Actually Yugoslavia looked more like UK, one language, currency, capitol etc. one country stronger then the rest and wanting to control them. Like England over Scotland, Norther Ireland and Wales. Did you forgot the scare tactics of England over Scottish referendum… :unamused:

179

Dolph:
Im not concerned at all, I’ve state it numerous times, your country your choice.
We have a discussion here, or maybe others then Brits are not allowed??
Also as I’ve said before, I prefer UK out of EU, so we can continue building ever closer union aka United States of Europe, something that UK prevents for years.

For someone who “isn’t concerned at all” you do a bloody good impression of someone desperately attempting to cling to the lifeboat!

Pray tell me about these perceived “closer links”, what precisely are you and your country bringing to this particular party?

180

Dolph:

Carryfast:

Dolph:
Im not concerned at all, I’ve state it numerous times, your country your choice.
We have a discussion here, or maybe others then Brits are not allowed??
Also as I’ve said before, I prefer UK out of EU, so we can continue building ever closer union aka United States of Europe, something that UK prevents for years.

theguardian.com/commentisfre … pean-union

All based on the catastrophic delusion that German,or at least French, Nationalism won’t eventually win out over naive opportunist East Euro Federalism.Thereby leaving you where you started with a massive much bigger version of Yugoslavia. :open_mouth: :laughing: :laughing:

Yugoslavia way its only in your dreams, I don’t see German boots on the ground to keep Italy, France or Bulgaria into EU, something that Milosevic did.
Also no nationalism in the sense you are talking about, we saw Le Pan 2 on election day months ago…
Actually Yugoslavia looked more like UK, one language, currency, capitol etc. one country stronger then the rest and wanting to control them. Like England over Scotland, Norther Ireland and Wales. Did you forgot the scare tactics of England over Scottish referendum… :unamused:

Having been familiar with Yugoslavia over a long period what I saw just convinced me that the right of self determination and Nationalist ideology will always win out over the naive dictatorial federalist system.On that note history shows that sooner or later Federalism usually descends into Federal boots on the ground trying to stamp out the Secessionist Nationalist right of self determination.Whether it be the UK,USA or Yugoslavia.There’s no reason to think the EU will eventually be any different in that regard especially with the precedent of already showing a liking for East European Communist type leadership in the form of Merkel among others.

On that note I support Scottish Nationalism.Although like in the case of Ireland it’s anyone’s guess how they can be stupid enough to then translate secession from the UK into EU membership instead. :open_mouth: :unamused: