EU POLL - New as of 20/2/16

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
141

Reg Bimmler:
What should concern anyone on here is that, should we vote to leave the EU, The UK would probably be unable to use the EU Regs on Drivers Hours anymore. You have to ask yourself, if this happened, do I trust the current crop of Politicians to be able to sort out a new set of rules so that are at least similar, if not, better, than the ones that we have under the EU at present?
It’d be interesting to hear what others on here think about this as It could seriously affect us all.
Like a lot of people, I’m not sure where I stand on the issue at the moment but it’s gonna be things like this that might make people vote one way or the other.

Perhaps it could be said that Brexit would mean an end to “job and knock” mentality where a yard pushes it’s drivers to do a 60 hour week in 48 hours using POA. There would not actually be any need for POA post-Brexit if you think about it.

A driver applying for a job will go for the one with the decent headline hours and headline pay.
It’s about time we saw the back of these deals that’ll get firms trying to get salaried drivers to work all the hours God gave them all the time “to get their money’s worth” - whilst failing to define even some basic concepts, like sick pay, holiday pay, hourly rates, etc.

On Agency meanwhile, you might have a commuting driver who can’t be arsed to go to a shift that’s 50 miles away, and only a “guaranteed” 5-8 hours pay at a mediocre hourly rate for it.
Better to define the job then, so you know what you’re up for even though it’s your first day…

This job needs definitions right now - to encourage new blood into the industry.

As it stands, even if one gets the licence, gets that job - there’s all that time and money to be spent on DCPC every five years (can be dropped on Brexit) renewing cards (paid for by yourself on agency) keeping legal (fined if you don’t!) and at no stage has any trucker killing a bystander ever resulted in a court case saying “The firm are running their drivers ragged”. I’m not talking about “illegal hours” here - but things like a 5-6-5-6 shift pattern with shift changes so weighed down with jetlag - that you’ve got drivers with the nodding dog by Wedneday of each week… :open_mouth:

All this stuff, and more - can be kicked into touch with some sensible regulations of our own - Eg., “Minimum hours off between shift - 11.” NOT reducable to 9 three times a week!
Minimum weekly rest - 48 hours per week without fail - none of this “reduceable to 25 hours once a fortnight”. Get an agency in to cover that weekend work - or employ a full timer friday-monday dammit!

The EU version of “driving rules” as they stand are there to maximize profits for yards, charge drivers themselves for as much of their work as possible by the back door, drive down wages with “time on duty that doesn’t count towards the so-called max 48 hour week”, and if anything goes wrong - it’s always the driver’s fault for being “insufficiently rested”.
Sufficient rest ends up with the driver on a work-eat-sleep pattern with no leisure time to speak of. That’s hardly going to encourage new blood into the industry either.

Take the gloves off, get all those foreign trucks off our roads, and let’s get our country back for those that actually live and work here.
If you want to work here - then bloody well live here, and make a new life out of it if necessary. Enough of this “commute to Britain”, and send it all on back to the wife. Auf Wiedersehen pet - it ain’t!

Dennis, Neville, and the lads - didn’t get benefits when they were working in Dusseldorf - did they? :imp:

142

Reg Bimmler:
What should concern anyone on here is that, should we vote to leave the EU, The UK would probably be unable to use the EU Regs on Drivers Hours anymore. You have to ask yourself, if this happened, do I trust the current crop of Politicians to be able to sort out a new set of rules so that are at least similar, if not, better, than the ones that we have under the EU at present?
It’d be interesting to hear what others on here think about this as It could seriously affect us all.
Like a lot of people, I’m not sure where I stand on the issue at the moment but it’s gonna be things like this that might make people vote one way or the other.

The idea of a return to domestic regs,but with the improvement of a minimum 12 hours unbroken daily rest period,wouldn’t exactly be rocket science and would certainly be ‘better’ than someone starting a new shift after a ‘reduced’ 9 hour daily rest.While also allowing more productivety in the form of more flexible driving time limits. :unamused:

143

Dolph:
The Bulgarian parliament extended on Thursday the powers of the army, allowing it to guard the state borders.
The amendment to the Defence and Armed Forces Act was unanimously approved at second reading with 137 MPs voting in favour, daily Dnevnik informs.
Until now, the armed forces could only provide assistance, such as logistics, to the officials of the interior ministry.
Now the army has the power to guard the border on an equal footing with border policemen.

Also as part of Frontex operation BG border police is patrolling the waters of Greek island Lesbos.
NATO is expected to tighten its control in the Mediterranean as of today

It seems obvious that East Euro is all about making sure that it isn’t subjected to Merkel’s Asian and African invasion while supporting her in everything else.On that note East Euro ‘border controls’ obviously aren’t about keeping ‘them’ out it’s about making sure they go on through to us without setting up home there.

As for NATO it seems obvious that it’s heading for a clash with Russia sooner or later over Syria and Ukraine it’s strings obviously being pulled by the EU and zbwit US foreign policy.

144

Reg Bimmler:
What should concern anyone on here is that, should we vote to leave the EU, The UK would probably be unable to use the EU Regs on Drivers Hours anymore. You have to ask yourself, if this happened, do I trust the current crop of Politicians to be able to sort out a new set of rules so that are at least similar, if not, better, than the ones that we have under the EU at present?

In the event we leave Article 50 is triggered; firstly there is a two year notice period, after which, the UK ceases to be an EU Member State.
The second puts in place the framework for negotiations towards an alternative trading agreement with the EU after we leave.

So we have two years in order to sort it all out.

145

Viktor Orban, Hungary’s Prime Minister, has told his parliament that Cameron got nothing and reassures them that Hungarians who have not paid contributions will still get UK benefits:

“the real debate was about there being benefits which workers do not pay for, but for which they are nonetheless eligible. The question was what should happen with benefits paid to third-country nationals, for which no contributions are paid in Britain. Here, too, we have succeeded in ensuring that these social benefits cannot be taken away. This means that we have even succeeded in protecting benefits which people working in the United Kingdom did not pay for in the form of contributions.”

Quite literally, Orban is boasting that Hungarians in Britain will get something for nothing.

A bit rich really when you consider that Hungary is regarded as an allie of Britain. Makes you think what those who really hate us think - just a cash cow tbh.

Which begs the question as to why the Remain Tory MP’s do not see that Cameron is a liar and join the Leave side immediately.

146

Stanley Knife:
In the event we leave Article 50 is triggered; firstly there is a two year notice period, after which, the UK ceases to be an EU Member State.
The second puts in place the framework for negotiations towards an alternative trading agreement with the EU after we leave.

So we have two years in order to sort it all out.

Bearing in mind we had no referendum regards the Lisbon treaty we shouldn’t consider ourselves held to it if we vote to leave on grounds of sovereignty.

Having said that,together with the nature of the in campaign’s tactics regards with holding of important government information from the out campaign for example,it would arguably be better for the out campaign to boycott the referendum and force an election or possibly even not.With a Eurosceptic Conservative and UKIP alliance calling for immediate withdrawal without a referendum based on the fact that our EU membership and signing of all treaties was an illegal act.

147

Stanley Knife:
Which begs the question as to why the Remain Tory MP’s do not see that Cameron is a liar and join the Leave side immediately.

Going by the contradiction in the stated policies of the Conservatives regarding London’s Conservative GLA Group’s intentions towards the surrounding Counties, let alone selling the country out to the EU,the Cons can’t be trusted.On that note the only way to sort the wheat from the chaff now would be for the Eurosceptics to depose Cameron based on the idea of leaving the EU immediately without a referendum on the basis of the legality of our membership v the constitution.

148

Cameron is using the government, foreign governments and the civil service to promote his case against his own party. Threatening to sack Brexit ministers for questioning the legal status of the renegotiation, using the civil service to promote staying in, denying civil service advice to Brexit ministers, publishing a letter from former defence chiefs where signatories deny they consented to their names being added or claim they were pressurised into signing.

And yet No.10 is desperate to ensure that Brussels do not interfere in the referendum process. Apparently the Eurocrats want to warn the UK electorate as to the strong retaliatory measures that would be taken should they dare to choose to leave.

Also No.10 is concerned that no mention be made by Brussels until after June 23rd of the plans already in progress for the European Army, Euro Tax Harmonisation and the significant increase in UK contributions planned in 2016/17 including the UK’s contribution to the Euro migration costs.

Now I wonder why that would be. :unamused:

149

My concern is that the sheeple will be sucked in by Cameron’s scare tactics and vote to stay in.

Boris Johnson and the no campaign don’t see to have got started yet.

Also, what the hell is Cameron playing at, a Tory PM shouldn’t be wanting to stay in should he? He’s showing his leftie credentials isn’t he??

150

Carryfast:
On that note the only way to sort the wheat from the chaff now would be for the Eurosceptics to depose Cameron based on the idea of leaving the EU immediately without a referendum on the basis of the legality of our membership v the constitution.

It is a wonderful irony that the only way Cameron can now achieve what he promised to obtain is by leaving the EU.

151

bazza123:
My concern is that the sheeple will be sucked in by Cameron’s scare tactics and vote to stay in.

I have absolutely no doubt that the fear factor will be used in it’s utmost.

Boris Johnson and the no campaign don’t see to have got started yet.

There is four months to go. Events, dear boy, events.

Also, what the hell is Cameron playing at, a Tory PM shouldn’t be wanting to stay in should he? He’s showing his leftie credentials isn’t he??

Cameron is, and always has been, a europhile. He’s just doing as he’s told now by the people pulling his strings.

Politically you have to look at Corbyn and Johnson. Corbyn is a committed outer now on the remain side to cement his position as leader, and BoJo is a committed europhile now campaigning for out as a strategy to oust Cameron and become PM. Both of them using the referendum as a means of furthering their political careers, and neither of whom I would ■■■■ on if they were on fire.

152

bazza123:
Also, what the hell is Cameron playing at, a Tory PM shouldn’t be wanting to stay in should he? He’s showing his leftie credentials isn’t he??

You do know that Heath,Thatcher and a majority of the Cons actually took us in then campaigned to stay in the last referendum and were happy to go along with all the relevant treaties.As for left it depends on your definition of left.Are you saying that Shore,Heffer,Benn and now Hoey were/are all on the ‘right’. :unamused:

153

Stanley Knife:
Politically you have to look at Corbyn and Johnson. Corbyn is a committed outer now on the remain side to cement his position as leader, and BoJo is a committed europhile now campaigning for out as a strategy to oust Cameron and become PM. Both of them using the referendum as a means of furthering their political careers, and neither of whom I would ■■■■ on if they were on fire.

In Corbyn’s case it’s the contradiction and the dilemma between Socialism v Nationalism in which being anti Federalist means by definition the latter which he had to come to terms with and predictably,like the Unions,being a typical Socialist zbwit,he chose the former. :bulb:

154

Socialism & Nationalism = ■■■■.

We need to be careful with all this “further integration into Europe”.

Take a neutral look for a moment… We shouldn’t want this for us any more than the EU might want it for themselves. It should only be them wanting it for us as the place where we get to draw the line - now or never. :exclamation:

There is nonetheless - a little too much “Nationalism” and “Socialism” flying around right now as if a gas.
I won’t say so much “God Help us if they get it together again” - but "Why not nip it all in the bud by distancing ourselves from such government culture as would be incompatible with our way of life?".

155

Winseer:
Socialism & Nationalism = ■■■■.

We need to be careful with all this “further integration into Europe”.

Take a neutral look for a moment… We shouldn’t want this for us any more than the EU might want it for themselves. It should only be them wanting it for us as the place where we get to draw the line - now or never. :exclamation:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AnpTWKKWQ1o
There is nonetheless - a little too much “Nationalism” and “Socialism” flying around right now as if a gas.
I won’t say so much “God Help us if they get it together again” - but "Why not nip it all in the bud by distancing ourselves from such government culture as would be incompatible with our way of life?".

It’s impossible to be a Nationalist and a Socialist.

The former recognises the right of self determination and the Nation State in this case that would be a Confederal Europe in which the states retain supreme government sovereignty ( IE right of Opt Out,Substitution,VETO and unconditional summary Secession ).IE friends with fences.

The latter is the anti thesis of that.As proved by Hitler and Stalin and Tito and the Chinese in Tibet and is therefore predisposed towards Federal rule whether it be the Yugoslav Federation,the EU,or the Third Reich.

The Third Reich actually being the ‘unification of Europe’ and other German ‘interests’ under a centralised German government and puppet proxy ( Federal ) governments like Vichy France and what would have been here if the RAF hadn’t stopped him.

156

View the vid. No one told Hitler, and it seems that Euro politicians everywhere are not giving a ■■■■ about the will of their own people, just being on some kind of “goody two-shoes campaign” in their own minds.

Integration has failed. What needs to be said - isn’t allowed to be said, so any “politician” speaking the truth, such as Farage - gets marginalized by the rest of the political spectrum.

OK, let’s not heed any warnings at all, and sleepwalk into millions more criminal migrants entering this country “on the dictat of the EU” in the years to come.

If we leave the EU - we can save the EU from itself into the bargain. :bulb:
I’ve heard that Le Penn is watching developments re our referendum with interest… :wink:

157

Winseer:
View the vid. No one told Hitler, and it seems that Euro politicians everywhere are not giving a ■■■■ about the will of their own people, just being on some kind of “goody two-shoes campaign” in their own minds.

If we leave the EU - we can save the EU from itself into the bargain. :bulb:
I’ve heard that Le Penn is watching developments re our referendum with interest… :wink:

I did view the vid.Key words like

'you mustn’t act ( think ) for yourself,

‘you must obey’ ‘you must give in’ ‘you must submit to the overwhelming need to obey’( IE to the collective ),

‘it is the luck to help which rewards those who commits themselves to the Socialist State’,everyone must have the belief that there is always someone in a much worse situation than I am and this person I want to help as a comrade,

‘when you sacrifice for your community you can walk with your head held up high’

‘the struggle against Marxism has evolved into a united struggle’ ( see all the above all of which could just as easily have been said by Tito,Stalin,Mao or zb Merkel ) :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

After all that he then decided that the way to make Germany great was to remove its national borders with the rest of Europe and make the other states all dependent subservient puppet Federal regimes under his centralised rule.In total contradiction with the idea of the nation state and the right of self determination and the right of individual freedom.

If that mad lying zb was a Nationalist then the pope ain’t a Catholic. :unamused:

On that note yes unlike Hitler Le Pen is the real deal. :wink:

158

Winseer:
View the vid. No one told Hitler, and it seems that Euro politicians everywhere are not giving a ■■■■ about the will of their own people, just being on some kind of “goody two-shoes campaign” in their own minds.

Integration has failed. What needs to be said - isn’t allowed to be said, so any “politician” speaking the truth, such as Farage - gets marginalized by the rest of the political spectrum.

OK, let’s not heed any warnings at all, and sleepwalk into millions more criminal migrants entering this country “on the dictat of the EU” in the years to come.

If we leave the EU - we can save the EU from itself into the bargain. :bulb:
I’ve heard that Le Penn is watching developments re our referendum with interest… :wink:

I agree. The politicians are not listening to their electorates (and let’s face it haven’t done for some time).

I think people’s patience is wearing thin and it’s only a matter of time before they let this be known. We’ve seen this with people’s attitudes toward the migrants coming into Europe to voting in far right groups in Greece.

Christ knows how German people think Merkel having let in tens of thousands.

We’ve been here before of course, in the 1930’s and onwards :unamused:

159

I thought the delivery of the “You must obey” bit was him paraphrasing and mocking the demands of other European leaders against himself…
I didn’t know that “war by other means” was conducted against Germany long before America officially joined WWII?

…Perhaps that threat has been considered by the EU against an errant Britain - should we vote for Brexit… Trade Embargos?

They are an act of war - make no mistake.

The only thing the EU can do against us post-brexit - is try and continue fiddling their exchange rate so their stuff is too expensive for us to afford (so we’ll stop buying it - they lose!) or our stuff is too cheap for them to buy (so they’ll buy more, as it’s now cheaper…)

These are the effects of the so-called “guaranteed to collapse pound” we’re being ear-bashed about in the media of late. :angry:

Look to how the EU now treats Greece - as to what’s in store for us post-IN vote…

We really can’t afford to get this one wrong folks.

I’ll vote IN if Merkel is Gone, France has a snap election, and the EU has closed its entire outer border with the outside - all implemented BEFORE the June referendum… :sunglasses: :grimacing:

160

Winseer:
I thought the delivery of the “You must obey” bit was him paraphrasing and mocking the demands of other European leaders against himself

It seemed clear enough to me.IE his message was all about calling on the people to commit themselves to ‘the Socialist State’ .IE the collective.

On that note the proof of what the lying zbwit was saying would have been the question of what would have happened to me ‘if’ I’d have been there and shouted what about the rights of the individual and the right of self determination and respect for other nation states and their cultures and their sovereignty,zb the collective and zb the Socialist State.That’s the difference between a Nationalist v a Socialist. :bulb: :wink: