where do you get your info from Carryfart?
Carryfast:
muckles:
Carryfast:
muckles:
Carryfast:
The fact is transport of freight ( not bulk aggregates etc ) by road beats rail wherever it is even over those North American distances.The history of the road transport industry shows that.Is this why about 40% of the Freight/miles in the US is by Rail and yet it has received virtually no subsidies or government intervention?
Road fuel taxation ‘is’ a form of government intervention and road fuel costs and taxes aren’t now what they were there when the US road transport industry was wiping the floor with the rail freight industry given a fair level playing field on fuel costs in addition to which is the continuation of the ridiculous situation of interstate US gross weight limits relative to vehicle lengths.
When was the US road transport sector wiping the floor with the rail industry?
It’s unbelievable how so many of those involved in the industry don’t seem to know it’s history and how it got to be where it got.
So you’ve rushed off done a bit of googling and posted a link to the history of the interstate, which actually only takes the story up to 1960 and then talks about projected trends.
but it still hasn’t answered the question.
In fact it says in 1958 rail freight accounted for 46% and road freight 20% of freight traffic, so 50 or so years not a great deal of change then.
Of course US road freight might of done better in the 60’s and 70’s, but your link didn’t go that far.
mickyblue:
where do you get your info from Carryfart?
Google like he rest of us. 
kr79:
If a container has been in a boat six weeks another week floating round the rail network isn’t going to make much of a difference. Where road haulage will always win Is flexibility. Where we are near Winnipeg we can load today and be anywhere in North America in a maximum of 3 driving shifts obviously less if you are running team and its a door to door service. It’s the same reason there is still a few trucks doing Middle East work yes a container is cheaper and in most cases its ok but by road it can be quicker and if its oversize etc it can be accommodated.
Europe and the uk Is the same and the smaller distances of the uk make it more so that yes a train makes sense pulling two hundred boxes out of felixstowe to the midlands but if there’s a problem and a box gets forgotten the truck will always be the solution.
It’s like that stobart truck v train thing yes they can leave the dock together an race to a terminal but the truck in reality will go straight to the delivery.
Haulage has done such a good job of serving the just in time culture that rail could never hope to beat it.
Even the Royal Mail dropped train use as road was more efficient.
It was the same in the muck away business when I was back home. Cross rail and a few other jobs were sending muck to holland for land reclamation by barge people were saying it will screw the tipper game but not every job is on a canal bank so how does it get to the barge?
As for America same as Canada you see the mile long container trains but that’s about it there’s still thousands of trucks pounding the interstate moving freight wether its 50 miles or 2000 miles.
I think the big difference is the way that those working in the road transport industry have been indoctrinated by years of ‘environmental’ bs propaganda by the rail freight industry to accept the idea of ‘co operation’ rather than what it should always be,a case of the market isn’t big enough for both and the two modes need to compete with each other to the point of trying to take as much work and market share from the other as possible and certainly not co operating by moving intermodal loads that can be taken by road over the whole journey.It’s that failure to regard the rail freight industry as a mortal enemy to the road transport industry that,as I’ve said,will cause massive damage to the road transport industry setting it back to where it was in the early 20 th century.
muckles:
Carryfast:
muckles:
Carryfast:
muckles:
Carryfast:
The fact is transport of freight ( not bulk aggregates etc ) by road beats rail wherever it is even over those North American distances.The history of the road transport industry shows that.Is this why about 40% of the Freight/miles in the US is by Rail and yet it has received virtually no subsidies or government intervention?
Road fuel taxation ‘is’ a form of government intervention and road fuel costs and taxes aren’t now what they were there when the US road transport industry was wiping the floor with the rail freight industry given a fair level playing field on fuel costs in addition to which is the continuation of the ridiculous situation of interstate US gross weight limits relative to vehicle lengths.
When was the US road transport sector wiping the floor with the rail industry?
It’s unbelievable how so many of those involved in the industry don’t seem to know it’s history and how it got to be where it got.
So you’ve rushed off done a bit of googling and posted a link to the history of the interstate, which actually only takes the story up to 1960 and then talks about projected trends.
but it still hasn’t answered the question.In fact it says in 1958 rail freight accounted for 46% and road freight 20% of freight traffic, so 50 or so years not a great deal of change then.
Of course US road freight might of done better in the 60’s and 70’s, but your link didn’t go that far.
mickyblue:
where do you get your info from Carryfart?Google like he rest of us.
The relevant bit was that it showed the starting point where the road transport industry was during the early 20 th century compared to rail at that time and the rate of growth during the mid 20 th century which the interstate road network then added to massively no surprise with the rail freight industry trying to throw a spanner in the works at every point along the way.
It doesn’t take a genius tro understand exactly what that report showed concerning the way in which the road transport industry has always needed to fight tooth and nail against the rail freight industry to grow.No surprise that the current policy of rail freight growth involves loss of market share from road to rail.In other words the road transport industry is going backwards but in this case helped by it’s own workers who’d rather support the loss of market share to rail than fight it. 
Carryfast:
The fact is transport of freight road beats rail wherever it is even over those North American distances.The history of the road transport industry shows that.
Muckles:
Is this why about 40% of the Freight/miles in the US is by Rail and yet it has received virtually no subsidies or government intervention?
Carryfast:
when the US road transport industry was wiping the floor with the rail freight industry
Muckles:
When was the US road transport sector wiping the floor with the rail industry?
Carryfast:
It’s unbelievable how so many of those involved in the industry don’t seem to know it’s history and how it got to be where it got.
Muckles:
In fact it says in 1958 rail freight accounted for 46% and road freight 20% of freight traffic, so 50 or so years not a great deal of change then.
Of course US road freight might of done better in the 60’s and 70’s, but your link didn’t go that far.
Carryfast:
The relevant bit was that it showed the starting point where the road transport industry was during the early 20 th century compared to rail at that time and the rate of growth during the mid 20 th century which the interstate road network then added to massively no surprise with the rail freight industry trying to throw a spanner in the works at every point along the way.
But it still doesn’t show a time when US Road Freight wiped the floor with Rail Freight and I believe that was the question.
You’re worse that some MP on Newsnight for ducking the question.
Carry(not so)fast beaten with his own crap, you couldn’t make it up
muckles:
Carryfast:
The fact is transport of freight road beats rail wherever it is even over those North American distances.The history of the road transport industry shows that.Muckles:
Is this why about 40% of the Freight/miles in the US is by Rail and yet it has received virtually no subsidies or government intervention?Carryfast:
when the US road transport industry was wiping the floor with the rail freight industryMuckles:
When was the US road transport sector wiping the floor with the rail industry?Carryfast:
It’s unbelievable how so many of those involved in the industry don’t seem to know it’s history and how it got to be where it got.Muckles:
In fact it says in 1958 rail freight accounted for 46% and road freight 20% of freight traffic, so 50 or so years not a great deal of change then.
Of course US road freight might of done better in the 60’s and 70’s, but your link didn’t go that far.Carryfast:
The relevant bit was that it showed the starting point where the road transport industry was during the early 20 th century compared to rail at that time and the rate of growth during the mid 20 th century which the interstate road network then added to massively no surprise with the rail freight industry trying to throw a spanner in the works at every point along the way.But it still doesn’t show a time when US Road Freight wiped the floor with Rail Freight and I believe that was the question.
You’re worse that some MP on Newsnight for ducking the question.
Road transport wiped the floor with rail in the sense of it’s rate of growth from the early 20 th century into the late 20 th century,at the expense of rail freight’s market share,and the fact is there’s no way that road transport could have sustained that rate of growth without it being more efficient than rail transport and without a fight against the big business rail freight interests.
The only questions that I see being ducked is if road transport is supposed to be so inefficient compared to rail,then why is it that the rail freight transport industry ( helped by it’s big business friends in government ) is so bothered about the issue of removal of all road fuel taxes from road transport and allowing de regulation of truck gross weight and length limits.Also why is it that those who make their living in the road transport industry seem to be so keen on co operating with,and helping to make the case for,rail transport.
shuttlespanker:
Carry(not so)fast beaten with his own crap, you couldn’t make it up
Beaten how 
.
It seems to me just like the type of argument which would take place between any train driver and truck driver throughout history.The question is why would any of those employed in the road transport industry want to make any case for rail.
Neither road or rail is perfect yes rail is more efficient if you are moving 200 containers to the same place in no hurry.
You want to move 26 pallets of stuff 200 mile up the road and its got to be there in a few hours the train is a waste of time.
Don’t encourage him Spanky, have you seen the Jimmy Saville thread FFS.
kr79:
Neither road or rail is perfect yes rail is more efficient if you are moving 200 containers to the same place in no hurry.
You want to move 26 pallets of stuff 200 mile up the road and its got to be there in a few hours the train is a waste of time.
All of which seems to contradict the fact that trucks have regularly competed against rail over much bigger distances than just 200 miles and won and the only reason that they’re carrying 26 pallets not a lot more is because of the artificial truck length and weight restrictions which are imposed to protect the rail freight industry.
Not forgetting that it’s not just container traffic that the rail freight industry is taking from road transport.The main issue at present is all about fuel taxation followed by over regulation related to lengths and gross weights.
Carryfast:
The fact is transport of freight road beats rail wherever it is even over those North American distances.The history of the road transport industry shows that.
Muckles:
Is this why about 40% of the Freight/miles in the US is by Rail and yet it has received virtually no subsidies or government intervention?
Carryfast:
when the US road transport industry was wiping the floor with the rail freight industry
Muckles:
When was the US road transport sector wiping the floor with the rail industry?
Carryfast:
It’s unbelievable how so many of those involved in the industry don’t seem to know it’s history and how it got to be where it got.
Muckles:
In fact it says in 1958 rail freight accounted for 46% and road freight 20% of freight traffic, so 50 or so years not a great deal of change then.
Of course US road freight might of done better in the 60’s and 70’s, but your link didn’t go that far.
Carryfast:
The relevant bit was that it showed the starting point where the road transport industry was during the early 20 th century compared to rail at that time and the rate of growth during the mid 20 th century which the interstate road network then added to massively no surprise with the rail freight industry trying to throw a spanner in the works at every point along the way.
Muckles:
But it still doesn’t show a time when US Road Freight wiped the floor with Rail Freight and I believe that was the question.
You’re worse that some MP on Newsnight for ducking the question.
Carryfast:
Road transport wiped the floor with rail in the sense of it’s rate of growth from the early 20 th century into the late 20 th century,at the expense of rail freight’s market share,
I see now wiped the floor in the same way the Paul di Resta wiped the floor with Sebastian Vettel in this years F1. Because in 2011 Di Resta got 27 points and Vettel got 392 but in 2012 Di Resta got 46 points but Vettel could only manage a measly 281.
Your all waisting your time as Carryfast thinks convoy and smokey and the bandit were documentarys.
Carryfast:
newmercman:
Container haulage in the UK is very different to most other countries, apart from a little dabble with Freightliner not much goes on the choo choo, whereas everywhere else the train takes the strain.In the US and Canada, probably Australia too, the train does the bulk of the work and the local deliveries are undertaken by drayage outfits, the only exception being reefer boxes (in Canada) these run from the meat plants in Manitoba all the way to Vancouver (1500miles) on the back of
The fact is containers and trailers are both used for intermodal freight operations and if intermodal rail/road transport was more efficient,( given a level playing field in regards to fuel taxation ),than just sending freight by road,there would have been no such thing as a large scale long distance sector of the road transport industry,which grew throughout North America etc etc by actually taking market share from rail.The only reason why that situation is now being reversed is because of a deliberate government policy of switching freight from road to rail by using punitive taxation and truck regulation policies targeted at road transport,in order to make the choice,of sending freight by road,over long distances, less economically attractive if not totally economically unviable thereby effectively removing that choice.
It’s no surprise that it’s the Canadian road transport industry that seems to be the last one left with any scope for growth and opportunities being that the Canadian government hasn’t totally sold out to the big business rail freight sector ( yet ).
It’s also no surprise that there doesn’t seem to be enough of a strong long distance sector of the US road transport industry left to compete with the Canadian one to take adavantage of what remains of the long distance North/South Canadian/US freight transport market which isn’t subject to the same amount of over capacity as the US domestic East/West freight transport market is now ( cause by growth in the rail freight industry and a reversal of the situation in which road transport took market share from rail ) which was the life blood of the US road transport industry before US politicians sold out to the big business rail freight interests in a similar way to which the British government has done.
Ironically if you and kr are right,about rail being better for long distance freight transport,then it’s only a matter of time before the Canadian road transport industry is subject to similar pressures forcing it into just local work as rail takes an ever larger market share of both East/West domestic long distance traffic and Canada/US North/South traffic.
The fact is allowing rail to reverse the situation,in which the long distance sector of the road tranport industry grew at the expense of rail,will put the road transport industry back to where it was in the early 20th century.
More a case of lots of USA hauliers don’t want the agrivation of crossing the border and the average American mentality of possessing a passport and going to another country.
Canadian haulage has grown around the necessity of trading with its neighbor so the haulage industry had grown to accommodate that.
philberg182:
Don’t encourage him Spanky, have you seen the Jimmy Saville thread FFS.
i must admit, that is one thread that i have not actually looked at 
kr79:
Your all waisting your time as Carryfast thinks convoy and smokey and the bandit were documentarys.
]
Actually it was more a case of knowing the difference between the type of driving career which I and others had during the late 20 th century compared to that of my grandfather who worked at a time when the idea of road transport doing all the local zb while rail did all the rest was taken to it’s logical conclusion. 
kr79:
Your all waisting your time as Carryfast thinks convoy and smokey and the bandit were documentarys.
I know Poor old Carryfast, whilst he lying on the rail tracks waiting for a freight train, some bloke called Tomasz has nicked his 26 pallet load for Moscow and probably the young woman he was hoping to impress as well.
Yeah night trunking up the M1 you were living the dream. 
Early 20 th century a roads no bypasses 20 mph obviously the train would win but today road wins on flexibility hands down.
The number of hgv trucks licensed to run in the uk has hardly changed since ww2 just the size of vehicle.
The percentage of freight on the railway hasn’t massively changed other than in your head.
If somehow rail managed to nick even 10% more work it couldn’t cope as the rail system is pretty much at capacity and rightly so passenger movement takes preference over freight as shifting people in and out of city’s from the suburbs in out small congested city’s makes sense over commuting in the car.
muckles:
kr79:
Your all waisting your time as Carryfast thinks convoy and smokey and the bandit were documentarys.I know
Yeah or his 6x4 kenworth road train is stuck in some Italian village looking for a vineyard to run home at 50p a mile
So…have Elite gone properly bust, or is this just downsizing?
Anyone know why?