Eastern European Drivers

[franglais]

caledoniandream:
I think EE drivers are really the least of our worries, with the pound so low the rest of Europe will be looking for cheap British drivers (like a couple of years ago)

We must realise we import a hell lot of stuff, with very important things like electricity, gas, food (Britain cannot produce food itself).
We buy a hell lot of knowledge on medical, information technology and goods for the heavy industry from countries in the EU.
Italy is a big supplier of production machines for the food and aluminium industries.

All the guys who use to run Europe and some who still do, know how much comes out the EU.

Regarding car manufacturers here; Nissan, Honda, and Toyota are only here, because we have acces to the single market, if the single market disappears, there is no point for them to produce here, as the GB market is to small.

Similair thing for JLR, if we don’t have acces to a single market, it may be more interesting for them to produce in India.

Ford already reducing their investment in the engine plants in the UK, while there is more investment in the Spanish and even the Saarbrucken plant.

I don’t think the EE immigrants will be of our slightest worry in the future.

I see on a daily bases, very good job offers cannot be filled with British (un-employed) workers, because they rather be on the dole.

My next guess will be that salaries will be again frozen for a long time to come (with the excuse to support our economy)

I have dual Nationality, and won’t give it up in a whim, keep the door open.

I`m considering buying a kilt and renting a flat in Gretna Green if UK goes out and Scotland goes in ! Trouble is Ive got knobbly knees and an allergy to the cold.

[albert1]

telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10 … o-eu-laws/

[ovlov_jay]

caledoniandream:
I think EE drivers are really the least of our worries, with the pound so low the rest of Europe will be looking for cheap British drivers (like a couple of years ago)

We must realise we import a hell lot of stuff, with very important things like electricity, gas, food (Britain cannot produce food itself).
We buy a hell lot of knowledge on medical, information technology and goods for the heavy industry from countries in the EU.
Italy is a big supplier of production machines for the food and aluminium industries.

All the guys who use to run Europe and some who still do, know how much comes out the EU.

Regarding car manufacturers here; Nissan, Honda, and Toyota are only here, because we have acces to the single market, if the single market disappears, there is no point for them to produce here, as the GB market is to small.

Similair thing for JLR, if we don’t have acces to a single market, it may be more interesting for them to produce in India.

Ford already reducing their investment in the engine plants in the UK, while there is more investment in the Spanish and even the Saarbrucken plant.

I don’t think the EE immigrants will be of our slightest worry in the future.

I see on a daily bases, very good job offers cannot be filled with British (un-employed) workers, because they rather be on the dole.

My next guess will be that salaries will be again frozen for a long time to come (with the excuse to support our economy)

I have dual Nationality, and won’t give it up in a whim, keep the door open.

Anyone can produce anything. It comes down to cost. Cash is king and it’s currently cheaper to import. We will still need the things we import, and if we can produce them cheaper post Brexit, then someone will see the opportunity to make money doing so. Why does everybody think the whole country is going to combust

[carryfast]

tommy t:
By doing either traitor sharia may will be ending her political career because she will be ousted as will the tories, the sad old control freak needs a size 10 up her jacksie the dithering delaying has gone on long enough already

Looking at it objectively as I said we’ve got the US and Chinese governments against us who are both ideologically opposed to successful Secession anywhere in the world for obvious reasons at home.Although a Trump win might be a game changer in that regard but don’t bet on it when the CIA have ‘leaned’ on him and ‘advised’ him to change his mind.

She isn’t dithering at all she’s just following the remain agenda which is all about playing for time to overturn the referendum vote with as little aggravation as possible.Which Cameron put her there to implement.

She won’t be ending her career by doing so because on a constituency electoral level the remain side have a massive cross party majority and the Con Eurosceptics know it.The fact is if we were really leaving we’d be out now with article 50 being a pointless exercise.

[carryfast]

Winseer:
Implementing Brexit is going to be the key issue for the next election - regardless of who and when.

I think even Corbyn is getting wise to this, as he’s gone rather quiet of late with regards to “any talk of overturning the referendum result”. This is unlike Owen Smith of course.

If the next government is to be a coalition AND not involving the only-8-seats-left Libdems - then the fight for the “3rd position” kingmaker is going to be key between now and the next election.
At present, that spot is occupied by the SNP. Trouble is for them - they can’t really increase their number of seats beyond what they already have. It’s going to be a tall order to get any other party - even UKIP or the Greens past what the SNP are still likely to hold onto at the next election.

The inconvenient fact is that we’ve got no way of reflecting the referendum result in parliament which is already just an EU puppet and remain institution that doesn’t want the powers that the leave side want it to take on.

[carryfast]

Franglais:
Franglais:
For any major manufacturer to succeed they need economies of scale, hence large factories rather than small ones and tie ins such as Renault/Nissan. Motor manufacturers need an international market for each factory not summat as small as a single country. So cross border sales are necessary to survival. Tariffs can kill this trade because of the competitive market and low margins mass producers operate at. A trade war will result in lowered consumption of non essentials (a new car after 4 years instead of 2 years)(t-shirts worn 2 seasons instead of 2weeks). Less goods means less employment and a downward spiral. Show me when anyone (outside of an emerging economy) benefitted from tariffs?
Also our main exports are from the service sector. No expensive factories invested in, no problem relocating the raw material, people elsewhere; over the Channel maybe? Financial institutions dont have much/any national fidelity do they? If their bottom line is threatened theyll not be hanging around too long methinks.

A trade war based on selectively applied ‘quotas’ v tarrifs isn’t the same thing as a trade war based on tarrifs v tarrifs.The latter would just be fighting it on Juncker’s terms.IE they impose tarrifs on us we impose ‘quotas’ on Germany.Such as if the Germans want to sell stuff here then they’ll have to transfer production of it here.In which case exactly how does that affect domestic consumption of UK manufactured goods to make up the shortfall.

The problem being not that we can’t easily win a trade war with the EU but the fact that we’ve got a traitorous population and government that isn’t up for the fight.

[carryfast]

Franglais:

del trotter:

dsbu:
This Government needs to be strong with Europe, as they need us as much as (if not more than) we need them. If they (Germany/France primarily) dont want to do a deal that this country can live with, without the free movement of labour condition, then we should walk away. I re-iterate my point that they need us as much as (if not more than) we need them!

UK exports to the EU represent 13% of UK GDP, EU exports to the UK represent 3% of their GDP, now who needs who more.

Good point. Also note that UK exports to the Eu are about 50% of total exports. So the Eu is our largest market. Can we afford to increase the prices of our goods to our biggest market? Rosy tinted wishful thinking don`t cut it in the real world.

(UK exports 3months July 2016 – Eu-35.7 Non.Eu-36.9. (£m))(ons.gov.uk/economy/national … cordssheet) Office of Nat Stats.

Now give us the same figures for Germany.Germany is the EU’s largest economy and on which the whole of the EU depends.The Germans can’t afford a trade war with the UK.

[ovlov_jay]

Carryfast:

Franglais:

del trotter:

dsbu:
This Government needs to be strong with Europe, as they need us as much as (if not more than) we need them. If they (Germany/France primarily) dont want to do a deal that this country can live with, without the free movement of labour condition, then we should walk away. I re-iterate my point that they need us as much as (if not more than) we need them!

UK exports to the EU represent 13% of UK GDP, EU exports to the UK represent 3% of their GDP, now who needs who more.

Good point. Also note that UK exports to the Eu are about 50% of total exports. So the Eu is our largest market. Can we afford to increase the prices of our goods to our biggest market? Rosy tinted wishful thinking don`t cut it in the real world.

(UK exports 3months July 2016 – Eu-35.7 Non.Eu-36.9. (£m))(ons.gov.uk/economy/national … cordssheet) Office of Nat Stats.

Now give us the same figures for Germany.Germany is the EU’s largest economy and on which the whole of the EU depends.The Germans can’t afford a trade war with the UK.

Ssshhhh! Don’t go asking for facts and figures, they aren’t as scary as percentages

[franglais]

OVLOV JAY:
Anyone can produce anything. It comes down to cost. Cash is king and it’s currently cheaper to import. We will still need the things we import, and if we can produce them cheaper post Brexit, then someone will see the opportunity to make money doing so. Why does everybody think the whole country is going to combust

We have no, or next to no production, of raw materials. We import steel(net 435£m 2015)(eef.org), aluminium(Lochaber makes 43,000t, we use 800,000t), electricity(6.4% imported 2nd quarter 2016) and even food. How can we reduce our costs against the global market? We have little/no control over costs of almost anything except labour…
No, Im not slitting my wrists. Not yet. Am I being unduly pessimistic? Show me some optimistic figures and Ill change my mind. PLEASE, show me summat good!

[ovlov_jay]

Franglais:

OVLOV JAY:
Anyone can produce anything. It comes down to cost. Cash is king and it’s currently cheaper to import. We will still need the things we import, and if we can produce them cheaper post Brexit, then someone will see the opportunity to make money doing so. Why does everybody think the whole country is going to combust

We have no, or next to no production, of raw materials. We import steel(net 435£m 2015)(eef.org), aluminium(Lochaber makes 43,000t, we use 800,000t), electricity(6.4% imported 2nd quarter 2016) and even food. How can we reduce our costs against the global market? We have little/no control over costs of almost anything except labour…
No, Im not slitting my wrists. Not yet. Am I being unduly pessimistic? Show me some optimistic figures and Ill change my mind. PLEASE, show me summat good!

Yes, we import cheap Chinese steel while we have 4000 workers worried for their jobs at port talbot. Like I say, it’s not that we can’t, it’s that we don’t.

[carryfast]

caledoniandream:
I think EE drivers are really the least of our worries, with the pound so low the rest of Europe will be looking for cheap British drivers (like a couple of years ago)

We must realise we import a hell lot of stuff, with very important things like electricity, gas, food (Britain cannot produce food itself).
We buy a hell lot of knowledge on medical, information technology and goods for the heavy industry from countries in the EU.
Italy is a big supplier of production machines for the food and aluminium industries.

All the guys who use to run Europe and some who still do, know how much comes out the EU.

Regarding car manufacturers here; Nissan, Honda, and Toyota are only here, because we have acces to the single market, if the single market disappears, there is no point for them to produce here, as the GB market is to small.

Similair thing for JLR, if we don’t have acces to a single market, it may be more interesting for them to produce in India.

Ford already reducing their investment in the engine plants in the UK, while there is more investment in the Spanish and even the Saarbrucken plant.

I don’t think the EE immigrants will be of our slightest worry in the future.

I see on a daily bases, very good job offers cannot be filled with British (un-employed) workers, because they rather be on the dole.

My next guess will be that salaries will be again frozen for a long time to come (with the excuse to support our economy)

I have dual Nationality, and won’t give it up in a whim, keep the door open.

Ironically for that argument the supermarket shelves rightly aren’t exactly full of European essential foods like meat and vegetables and milk etc.While in fact Brit farmers have actually been calling for even more access to the UK market in favour of even less imports which doesn’t suggest a country without the ability to feed itself without EU help.While even the example of seasonal Waitrose lamb imports for example,referred to here,inconveniently for your argument,are unsurprisingly sourced from NZ with none from the EU.

fwi.co.uk/news/revealed-supe … armers.htm

As for the transfer of UK manufacturing to Europe we’ve seen more of that as an EU member than before we joined.Which isn’t surprising bearing in mind our trade deficit with the EU in manufactured goods.Of which we’ve got more chance of sorting out as a non EU member with the right to impose tarrifs and quotas.But that would obviously require a nation and government which is prepared to stand up for itself rather than a subservient bunch of EU quislings.

[franglais]

Carryfast:

Franglais:
Franglais:
For any major manufacturer to succeed they need economies of scale, hence large factories rather than small ones and tie ins such as Renault/Nissan. Motor manufacturers need an international market for each factory not summat as small as a single country. So cross border sales are necessary to survival. Tariffs can kill this trade because of the competitive market and low margins mass producers operate at. A trade war will result in lowered consumption of non essentials (a new car after 4 years instead of 2 years)(t-shirts worn 2 seasons instead of 2weeks). Less goods means less employment and a downward spiral. Show me when anyone (outside of an emerging economy) benefitted from tariffs?
Also our main exports are from the service sector. No expensive factories invested in, no problem relocating the raw material, people elsewhere; over the Channel maybe? Financial institutions dont have much/any national fidelity do they? If their bottom line is threatened theyll not be hanging around too long methinks.

A trade war based on selectively applied ‘quotas’ v tarrifs isn’t the same thing as a trade war based on tarrifs v tarrifs.The latter would just be fighting it on Juncker’s terms.IE they impose tarrifs on us we impose ‘quotas’ on Germany.Such as if the Germans want to sell stuff here then they’ll have to transfer production of it here.In which case exactly how does that affect domestic consumption of UK manufactured goods to make up the shortfall.

The problem being not that we can’t easily win a trade war with the EU but the fact that we’ve got a traitorous population and government that isn’t up for the fight.

But we alone won`t dictate which selection to make! We may choose to put tariffs on grain, wine, luxury cars they may decide to put tariffs on ? luxury cars, 4x4s, whisky, financial services…? Game Over. We loose 50% of our export market.
What do you expect BMW to do? build cars in Munich, paint them here, then ship them back? Or build a bijou little factory here? Or a full size factory building iconic cars? Maybe Minis??
Traitorous Population? If we live in democracy, then how can a population be traitorous to themselves??

[carryfast]

OVLOV JAY:
Yes, we import cheap Chinese steel while we have 4000 workers worried for their jobs at port talbot. Like I say, it’s not that we can’t, it’s that we don’t.

You can add to that the question of how many German imports of manufactured products are made with UK produced steel not German and how much steel do we import from the EU.On that note I don’t like Redwood but you can’t argue with his facts.

johnredwoodsdiary.com/2016/04/01 … om-the-eu/

[franglais]

OVLOV JAY:

Franglais:

OVLOV JAY:
Anyone can produce anything. It comes down to cost. Cash is king and it’s currently cheaper to import. We will still need the things we import, and if we can produce them cheaper post Brexit, then someone will see the opportunity to make money doing so. Why does everybody think the whole country is going to combust

We have no, or next to no production, of raw materials. We import steel(net 435£m 2015)(eef.org), aluminium(Lochaber makes 43,000t, we use 800,000t), electricity(6.4% imported 2nd quarter 2016) and even food. How can we reduce our costs against the global market? We have little/no control over costs of almost anything except labour…
No, Im not slitting my wrists. Not yet. Am I being unduly pessimistic? Show me some optimistic figures and Ill change my mind. PLEASE, show me summat good!

Yes, we import cheap Chinese steel while we have 4000 workers worried for their jobs at port talbot. Like I say, it’s not that we can’t, it’s that we don’t.

How will leaving the Eu and thereby risking tariffs help the UK steel industry? To survive in a Global economy you need a large factory/smelter with a large stable home market. The UK, indeed any European country isn`t big enough alone. Surely we are better as part of a large free trade zone rather than isolating ourselves?

[ovlov_jay]

It’s better because we can use our own steel rather than imported Chinese steel. Eu tariffs won’t have an impact on what we produce for our own consumption

[carryfast]

Franglais:

Carryfast:

Franglais:
Franglais:
For any major manufacturer to succeed they need economies of scale, hence large factories rather than small ones and tie ins such as Renault/Nissan. Motor manufacturers need an international market for each factory not summat as small as a single country. So cross border sales are necessary to survival. Tariffs can kill this trade because of the competitive market and low margins mass producers operate at. A trade war will result in lowered consumption of non essentials (a new car after 4 years instead of 2 years)(t-shirts worn 2 seasons instead of 2weeks). Less goods means less employment and a downward spiral. Show me when anyone (outside of an emerging economy) benefitted from tariffs?
Also our main exports are from the service sector. No expensive factories invested in, no problem relocating the raw material, people elsewhere; over the Channel maybe? Financial institutions dont have much/any national fidelity do they? If their bottom line is threatened theyll not be hanging around too long methinks.

A trade war based on selectively applied ‘quotas’ v tarrifs isn’t the same thing as a trade war based on tarrifs v tarrifs.The latter would just be fighting it on Juncker’s terms.IE they impose tarrifs on us we impose ‘quotas’ on Germany.Such as if the Germans want to sell stuff here then they’ll have to transfer production of it here.In which case exactly how does that affect domestic consumption of UK manufactured goods to make up the shortfall.

The problem being not that we can’t easily win a trade war with the EU but the fact that we’ve got a traitorous population and government that isn’t up for the fight.

But we alone won`t dictate which selection to make! We may choose to put tariffs on grain, wine, luxury cars they may decide to put tariffs on ? luxury cars, 4x4s, whisky, financial services…? Game Over. We loose 50% of our export market.
What do you expect BMW to do? build cars in Munich, paint them here, then ship them back? Or build a bijou little factory here? Or a full size factory building iconic cars? Maybe Minis??
Traitorous Population? If we live in democracy, then how can a population be traitorous to themselves??

If we’re a sovereign country in a trade war with the EU what do you mean by we alone won’t be able to selectively hit who we want where we want how we want.In this case as I said concentrate on hitting German manufacturing imports and the EU will fold because the loss of those exports would be too much of the German economy to withstand.

As for what do I want BMW and Merc to do that would obviously be the same as we told Ford to do when we actually had a government working in the interests of the country.IE if they are sold here then we build them here from start to finished product.

We don’t live in a democracy when it’s in large part controlled by the EU federal government which we have no direct Electoral control over.‘If’ you were to say let’s change that EU constitution to a Confederal one,in which the National MEP groups hold supremacy over the Commissioners,with the National right of opt out,substitution and VETO,then I’d support remaining.

[nightline]

Dover will have to treble it’s docking for boats because the French are going to love sending anyone that wants to come no control in France big mistake and a lot of people voted thinking this was going to sort it

[carryfast]

Franglais:
How will leaving the Eu and thereby risking tariffs help the UK steel industry? To survive in a Global economy you need a large factory/smelter with a large stable home market. The UK, indeed any European country isn`t big enough alone. Surely we are better as part of a large free trade zone rather than isolating ourselves?

How is it a supposedly free trade zone when,unlike EFTA or NAFTA,it attaches the strings of sovereignty for trade.As for being better off tied to the EU tell that to Greece.

While if it’s all about not being big enough alone and the EU is the supposed answer to all our problems then our steel industry or in fact manufacturing industry as a whole would obviously be in the same position as that of Germany’s.The fact is the EU for us is a lose lose situation of handing over sovereignty to people like Juncker and jobs for Germans and East Europeans at the expense of Brits.

[ovlov_jay]

nightline:
Dover will have to treble it’s docking for boats because the French are going to love sending anyone that wants to come no control in France big mistake and a lot of people voted thinking this was going to sort it

And that can be sorted by imposing massive fines on the ferry operators, just like the hauliers get. The only delays will be while they triple check the boats for stowaways in Calais.

[franglais]

OVLOV JAY:
It’s better because we can use our own steel rather than imported Chinese steel. Eu tariffs won’t have an impact on what we produce for our own consumption

As I understand it the UK produces enough domestic steel for the construction industry, but needs to import other grades for automotive uses etc. Our steel is produced from largely imported coal, ore, and domestic scrap. If we use expensive UK steel from (almost non-existent UK coal/ore mines) to make goods how can we then export cars or whatever in a world market? We use Chinese steel because it`s cheap, so making the end product cheap, after all. You can make valid arguments about regulation, safety of workers,and pollution etc but as you say “cash is king” and Chinese steel is currently king.