East European Drivers

[tagoat]

I’m ambivalent towards this particular topic, however, I do waver towards the plight of our Eastern neighbours.

They are soley doing what most other honest working people do. That is striving to better their circumstances in the best way possible, and in the only way they know how. They follow the “buck”

Their lands have been ravaged by war for centuries, and mostly they have lived under the control of some despot or other all of their lives. Without hope.

Now, with a glimmer of opportunity, what happens? A good kicking appears to be the order of the day judging from some of the posts here.

And whilst they are “over here” attempting to have a chance of a decent life, whats happening at their home?

Now that land, for the first time available to be bought by themselves, is being absolutely gobbled up by people from outside their country … and thus forcing the price way outside of their means.
“Foriegners” are buying up their country in preperation for the riches of EEC grants.

Nothing to do with road safety I know.

So, what are they supposed to do?

I have no idea, but I do feel compassion.

[guest1]

Very well put.

A few other questions.

1. Has anyone actually lost their job to an Eastern European?
2. Has anyone’s pay been cut because of an Eastern European?
3. Has anyone’s employment benefits been reduced as a result of Eastern European labour?
4. Has anyone’s lifestyle altered manifestly as a result of an Eastern European?
5. If the price of EU membership is labour moblity, then is it better to give up the former - by far the UK’s biggest export market - in order to preserve jobs lost as a result of the latter?
6. If yes, then where do we - as a small island, parked off the coast of the world’s largest economic community - go from here?

You know that thing that keeps a count of your hours. It’s a clock. It measures time. Which - guess what - moves on. This is 2006, and we live in a rather smaller world.

Get over it.

[thebear]

smcaul:
There are far to many “Agencies” trying to get in on the “European Labour Market” (is that pc enough ), they are offering labour at very “Competitive” rates, now I have no problem with people wanting to provide a better a life for themselves and their families, what I do object to is the fact that if the agency is charging less for these drivers then it goes without saying that the drivers themselves are getting paid less (and yes I can confirm what I have posted, but I am not prepared to go into detail on an open forum). All this does is deflates all drivers wages, now is that what people on here want? It was said eariler that they are only filling jobs that uk drivers don’t want, well why don’t we want it? Normally because it does not pay enough - supply and demand, the basis of our economy is being bypassed by using imported laboour. And where do you think the ££ they earn are spent? Not in the UK, that’s for sure. For every £1 you spend from your paypacket the govenment will see that same £1 spent 7 times by the time it gets back to the Bank of England. That is alot of tax the government is getting to pay for health care and schools, Now if that £1 is spent outside of the UK it will only raise £1 when it eventually finds it way back to the BofE.

To my mind there is nothing Racist or Xenophobic about the above, it is simple fact - and I have a right, as do others, to provide for themselves and their families without seeing their pay packets eroded by the influx of cheaper labour.

There is nothing racist about that statement, smcaul … what I get fed up about is the attitude that all Eastern Europeans are rubbish drivers and they are here like the Vikings of centuries ago… ■■■■■■ and pillaging our women and jobs.

[smcaul]

TheBear:
There is nothing racist about that statement, smcaul … what I get fed up about is the attitude that all Eastern Europeans are rubbish drivers and they are here like the Vikings of centuries ago… ■■■■■■ and pillaging our women and jobs.

They are welcome to my woman - but leave my job alone

[smcaul]

But on a more serious note, my main point is that there is a loss of job oppertunities because of the influx of cheaper labour, Round here in the south I know of several companies that have taken on other european drivers, yet there are new drivers who have just passed itching to get behind the wheel but who struggle to get a start anywhere. One company i know off (take that to mean have worked for) used to use quite a few agency staff, that number has dropped as they have a number of fellow europeans working for them - they used to be able to find the labour ok here, but have now changed to using a different labour market, Why? I can only assume it is because it is cheaper - no doubt damages (if there are any) are paid for by the agency, or some similar agreement.

If UK companies want to employ other European labour then we must make sure that they are getting the going rate and not under cutting our current level of pay or in a few years time we will see a dive in the industry that it will never recover from.

[suffolk_reeferboy]

smcaul:
If UK companies want to employ other European labour then we must make sure that they are getting the going rate and not under cutting our current level of pay or in a few years time we will see a dive in the industry that it will never recover from.

They are at present being paid the going rate but as you say give it a couple of years and then see .
I have seen companies get rid of drivers full time /part time / agency regulars because a agency using just eastern bloc workers has gone in and quoted a rate lower then the regular employed drivers where recieving and this isnt HEARSAY ITS FACT
AND its not just British drivers who are peed off with this , having spoken to various German and Dutch drivers they are having the same problems with the eastern bloc labour in their countries as well.

I would like to see one of the trucking mags do some work and put together a real life article about the eastern bloc labour that is now working within the transport industry, but I guess its easier to write about Joe Bloggs new topline complete with all the chav tat he can bolt on, then write a decent story that may require a little work rather then just turn up and take some nice little pics.

Some companies in my area use to operate the young driver scheme, but not now, no need, why employ a young person and train him or her up when a the drop of a hat you can have a eastern bloc ■■■■ sat in the driving seat who is avavilable with little input from the company.

Certain companies are now finding that the eastern bloc drivers are not the saviour that they once thought they would be and are now regretting taking such a large number on example being Wens night regular route been done for years out of East Anglian Packing house resulted in one written off FM globetrotter on a 54 plate and one 2 year old fridge trailer being written of , when 20 ton of onions was tipped over, driver, young polish lad dropped wheel off road and rolled over , road is wide flat fen land stretch, no other vehicles involved , wittnessed by worker from packing house who was following truck .
This is not the first time this company has had rollovers and it wont be the last .

I would still have a problem with employing eastern bloc labour over British workers if they were proper drivers but as the majority I have seen are not former drivers it ■■■■■■ me off even more .
Simple as that.

[froggy]

Gst 1,1 see above post,2,wages are kept low,so no pay rise over time is a pay cut,3n.a.4,5, and 6 with the unemployement rate rising (now at 1.5 million)should they still be working when british drivers are on the dole?

[Lasurazes]

guest1:
You know that thing that keeps a count of your hours. It’s a clock. It measures time. Which - guess what - moves on. This is 2006, and we live in a rather smaller world.

Get over it.

no mate i think you need get over it, people have as much if not more of a right to fight their corner, and are free to debate than others have the “right” to come here for work!

sauce for the goose guest, spouting patronising lessons on time and then telling people to get over it is just arrogant minded garbage that does nothing but ■■■■ people off!

[suffolk_reeferboy]

froggy:
Gst 1,1 see above post,2,wages are kept low,so no pay rise over time is a pay cut,3n.a.4,5, and 6 with the unemployement rate rising (now at 1.5 million)should they still be working when british drivers are on the dole?

Any other country in the world would have to advertise the job before being allowed to take on workers from abroad , there should be NO BRITISH DRIVER SEEKING WORK but because of the so called driver shortage they employ any old driver from wherever which is the lame old crappy excuse for employing eastern bloc labour.
But because we are part of the EU ■■■■■■■ group we have to employ any old tat as long as its cheap.

I am sure some big fridge companies are using the fact they are offering employment to workers from poor eastern bloc countries to then secure EU money to build up their fleets , coldstores etc.
Some of these companies were advertising in some down town polish paper in advance of europe opening its doors to the eastern bloc countries , one company I know of no longer advertises local jobs, no need they have a endless supply of jokers all “fully expierenced drivers” at the end of the phone all eager little beavers ready to jump on a £20.00 easy jet to Luton. Is this .FAIR on local drivers with families and mortages to pay, is it rollocks but never mind dont worry about them . As long as the merchant bankers who start shouting RACIST and other such PC trap are happy who cares

I would now have to be desperate to work for a company that plays by these rules, thankfully there are many companies I know off who wont entertain the thought of employing eastern bloc labour.

[suffolk_reeferboy]

Mal:

guest1:
You know that thing that keeps a count of your hours. It’s a clock. It measures time. Which - guess what - moves on. This is 2006, and we live in a rather smaller world.

Get over it.

no mate i think you need get over it, people have as much if not more of a right to fight their corner, and are free to debate than others have the “right” to come here for work!

sauce for the goose guest, spouting patronising lessons on time and then telling people to get over it is just arrogant minded garbage that does nothing but [zb] people off!

Well said Mal , Im sick of PC merchants hiding behind racist cards.

Self edited one time to avoid offending

[Lasurazes]

i hate being called a racist srb, if it was true i wouldn t mind and would admit it! and youre right, the racist card has been played to bleeding death!

im a spacist definately, and even a lookin after me own firstist and im proud to admit it, but never have been and never will be a racist!

is guest an ex journalist then?

[suffolk_reeferboy]

Mal:
i hate being called a racist srb, if it was true i wouldn t mind and would admit it! and youre right, the racist card has been played to bleeding death!

im a spacist definately, and even a lookin after me own firstist and im proud to admit it, but never have been and never will be a racist!

is guest an ex journalist then?

Looking through his posts I sherlocked he was but as I have been wrong before I may be wrong again which is why I have self edited previous post to save being told" personal attack" etc etc .

[thebear]

While I can see your points about Eastern European drivers and British drivers, SFB and Mal … its been asked previously in this post and I’ll ask again…

Do you know of any Class One driver that has been refused a job or lost a job because there are ‘foreigners’ sitting in the driving seat??
To my mind, all GOOD Class One drivers have jobs and have no worries (like myself )

When these companies that employ them discover they are employing a load of rubbish then they will come running back to the fold. You really can’t paint every Eastern European with the same brush … thats not fair. It’s like me saying all people from Suffolk are idiots just cos I got carved up by one 10 years ago.
This problem isn’t going to go away, no matter what we do or say, until the companies realise they are being given rubbish drivers by these agencies.

[suffolk_reeferboy]

TheBear:
Do you know of any Class One driver that has been refused a job or lost a job because there are ‘foreigners’ sitting in the driving seat??
To my mind, all GOOD Class One drivers have jobs and have no worries (like myself )

When these companies that employ them discover they are employing a load of rubbish then they will come running back to the fold. You really can’t paint every Eastern European with the same brush … thats not fair. It’s like me saying all people from Norfolk are idiots just cos I got carved up by one 10 years ago.
This problem isn’t going to go away, no matter what we do or say, until the companies realise they are being given rubbish drivers by these agencies.

The problem is people are not being offered the jobs that are available because they are just being filled straight away in some companies by eastern bloc labour, no adverts in local papers , no word of mouth and not even any job centre ads .

I think the big boys dont care about accidents etc as long as the load gets to wherever and the company doesnt get fined for late delivery and lose a big contract , most of the big fridge concerns make more money on storage then haulage now so the cheaper labour they can get for transport the bigger profit which is fair enough but I think they should help the local workforce first as this work force were the ones who helped them get as big as they have in the first place a little loyalty wouldnt go amiss .

I cant see them coming back very quick to real drivers , I think they will just accept that damage and poor driving is part of the price of having an endless supply of labour.

But like I say there are a few who will not touch them, but if the poles next door are happy little chaps working for minimum wage my boss will soon say well the rates aint going up because the company across the road can run for less my wages will slowly come around to what a pole will work for.

This aint gonna go away overnight only time will tell but I dont think the future is bright

Bear I changed your poor spelling of Norfolk in the quote I took from you

[Lasurazes]

bear, the easy answer to your question is no, but i do know jobs that are now filled, and with a list, so that if a job is needed it is not going to be there. my argument is pretty simple, i dont care where the drivers come from, or who they are, it aint of any interest to me how good or bad they are either, thats an argument for some, but not me.

whats botherign me is these facts

a, this island is getting more crowded all the time, this will in time affect all residents here in a negative way, regardless of what origin they are. space is at a premium, 99% of the people are living on 10% of the land, the landowners are not going to release land that they own. hence the govt insist on 14 houses per acre, we are by edict stacked up like rats and the price of land is ridiculous. so we are packed into a tight spot, that is a plain fact. this is not new, but was far more tolearble at 50 mill population than say 64, what about if it gets to 100 or 200 mill where is the line drawn eh?? if things get worse, our children can barely afford a dwelling as it is due to supply & demand of land, what about our grandchildren? 300 year mortgages? whats the answer?

b, there are many residents here in britain getting plenty dough and for no show, this is mad. unless there is a damned good reasion for it nobody should be on a hand out for free. simpley importing foreigners in to plug the gaps is a bull ■■■■ short term strategy. and if things go belly up such as a recession, they will be entitled to welfare, who’s gonna pay for it? or have they all got to be sent packing?? i’d sooner not invite people unless there was absolutely no other possible way of getting work done!

c, in the case of driving jobs particularly. i kind of liked the “shoratge” work got done, nobody starved the country didnt grind to a halt, in fact it thrived, and as a by product we yes you me and all of us, got a better deal from the gaffers. i liked that! and it was good for all of us, importing drivers will, and is allready reversing this. you say whats wrong with a bit of good for them, nowt actually, but charity starts at home first, so whats wrong with a bit of good for us eh?

bolting the stable door AFTER the horses have run away is about as much use as a chocolate teapot! witing till things can can be discerened over the horizon is just plain stupid in my opinion.

of course, any of the above can easily be shirked off by adopting the attitude of, well im allright jack, it aint a problem for me. thats ok, ive heard that before, and heard the same people weeping and wailing when summat does eventually happen to them!

[thebear]

Suffolk ReeferBoy:

TheBear:
Do you know of any Class One driver that has been refused a job or lost a job because there are ‘foreigners’ sitting in the driving seat??
To my mind, all GOOD Class One drivers have jobs and have no worries (like myself )

When these companies that employ them discover they are employing a load of rubbish then they will come running back to the fold. You really can’t paint every Eastern European with the same brush … thats not fair. It’s like me saying all people from Norfolk are idiots just cos I got carved up by one 10 years ago.
This problem isn’t going to go away, no matter what we do or say, until the companies realise they are being given rubbish drivers by these agencies.

Bear I changed your poor spelling of Norfolk in the quote I took from you

Glad to see you still have a sense of humour, SRB

[leslie_g_heath]

A problem nowadays is as soon as you mention a problem regarding a different nationality, the race card is used to end the debate.
My first post made it quite plain my concern was to the training these drivers are getting.
I know of at least one major distribution depot where the drivers were told “next year you will do as you are told, we are and can get enough drivers from other countries as we want”.I know because i was there.
If you think the companies and agencies employ these people out of the goodness of their hearts, think again, ultimately wages will be driven down, its called supply and demand/market forces.

[scanny77]

Mal:
the racist card has been played to bleeding death!

it will continue this way too Mal. it is never challenged and it is always made legal providing it is not used by those who really need it

[guest1]

The EU is our - the UK’s - biggest single trading partner. The price of EU membership is labour mobility. Is it your contention that we bar ourselves from trading with our single biggest economic partner, stick the foreigners on a train back home and try to function as a small island in an otherwise rapidly unifying global economy? I would suggest that this would be unwise. Who will our new, improved, ethnically cleansed nation deal with then?

It is for you to decide as to whether or not I am being patronising here. My apologies if that is the impression you have derived — it was certainly not one that I meant to convey. I would, however, urge you to accept that we have an equal right to our views. It is, after all, the basis of a democracy. Which brings me to the reason as to why I find some of the observations expressed here so frightening. Back in the early ‘30’s, when the German economy headed around the U-Bend, people looked for a scapegoat. They found one, and, a few years later, six million scapegoats had been done away with. I’m rather keen for that not to happen again. Condemning people on the basis of their ethnicity is — and this is merely my point of view - a very dangerous path to take.

If you are to condemn any one group, condemn the employers. They, in turn, will point to their customers — more often than not the supermarkets — who, in turn, will say that their consumers want to pay the cheapest price possible. That consumer, ladies and gentlemen, is us. Anyone who can say that they have never bought any product produced in a low cost manufacturing environment has a right to the moral high ground here. Those of us who cannot are in part responsible for this situation. Demand and supply etc.

As to who I am, sure. Oliver Dixon, journalist, ex HGV driver, part time guest worker in the US where he — like these eastern Europeans — is only trying to make a better life for himself, but also, for the record, English, proud of the fact, and, more pertinently, proud of the fact that he comes from a country where people are — or used to be - judged not on the basis of stereotype but on their value as an individual human being.

[spardo]

A good, well argued case Oliver. I have been watching this (familiar) debate
with my (usual) dismay, but have refrained from commenting because of the
excess of heat, as opposed to light, being generated.
Like you I made my way in another country (2 actually), and am thankful that
the treatment I received in both was so different from that being meted out
here.

Hang on a minute, Oliver Dixon, you’re not from Shardlow are you?

Salut, David.