animal:
I managed to drop a trailer once it was even ground ish went back under trailer checked hight ( alway get out & check ) lift up unit then went back under pin clicked in got out of unit checked put pin in finished connecting up as per yep did the tug test
Went to pull off the bay slowly trailer stayed took suzies out in my defence this happened a few times a year but when I told several people about this they asked if I was driving a Scania as this does happen sometimes although it all looks time there is a slight gap yep I had checked it but didn’t see it
No damage done to trailer did snap 1 of the lines where I was they did have a mechanic who sorted this out for me np
I did learn form it as I now double check everything when going back under a trailer drop suspension when under I get out of cab check then raise suspension the go back slowly double check the tug test get out check pin with torch if dark also check handle is in right
So if you see a female driver getting out cab to check a few times before coupling up it might be me
This can be done normally happens with a Scania for some reason
If you mean a gap between the fifth wheel and trailer that would foreseeably be a result of that mad idea of lowering the unit then lifting it but possibly with not enough height to lift the trailer off its legs.All because of trying to stop a bit of grease getting pushed off the fifth wheel while coupling using,‘what should be’,the idea of making sure that the trailer is already sitting at a lower level than fifth wheel height,‘before’ putting the unit under it.With insult added to injury in the form of trailers being dropped too high.
robert1952:
Nobody has mentioned LHD / RHD trailers. In my experience, I’ve observed that diligent drivers who have a good systemised walk-round checking procedure before dropping a trailer, are occasionally caught out when using a mixed fleet of UK & Continental trailers. Continental trailers have their winding handles on the European near-side, rather than the UK near-side. This means that if you are on dock traction, you may well be pulling a variety of both types into the yard (or docks) on any given day. Your well-established walk-round procedure will have one single imperfection: the LHD / RHD winding handle. Even palm couplings versus bayonet types won’t interrupt your walk-round procedure, but the winding handle can catch out even the most seasoned driver. It’s just one of those damned things! Happy New Year! Robert
Blimey in that case I’d have been dropping trailers on their knees all over the place.In our case we had handles both sides with many depots needing trailers to be parked close offside to near side.Which meant making sure that the correct side was put into neutral to wind the opposite sides needed.
sweepster:
If there’s no resistance I always lift.
The unit needs to lift the trailer from the first point of contact as an essential part of a safe coupling procedure.If you’ve got a height mismatch that won’t allow that then that mismatch needs to be dealt with ‘before’ starting to put the unit under the trailer not after.Which in the real world means a visual check either outside or by use of the mirrors that confirms the trailer height is no higher than the unit ramps or at least the chamfered forks at the rear of the fifth wheel.While using air suspension to adjust the height of the unit to a high trailer could foreseeably result in the situation of that unit height adjustment running out before the unit is at the correct height to actually lift the trailer off it’s legs as it goes under the trailer.In which case using the old school steel suspension method of winding the trailer down is arguably preferable to raising the unit.Which itself is generally the result of people not dropping trailers properly from normal unit running height and/or also not leaving some space under the legs.
Thanks Carryfast for confirming that, I think. Experience helps a lot. At Coventry they sometimes drop the trailers too high that I have to wind the legs down in low gear, even with the unit suspension at max. Nice people.
animal:
I managed to drop a trailer once it was even ground ish went back under trailer checked hight ( alway get out & check ) lift up unit then went back under pin clicked in got out of unit checked put pin in finished connecting up as per yep did the tug test
Went to pull off the bay slowly trailer stayed took suzies out in my defence this happened a few times a year but when I told several people about this they asked if I was driving a Scania as this does happen sometimes although it all looks time there is a slight gap yep I had checked it but didn’t see it
No damage done to trailer did snap 1 of the lines where I was they did have a mechanic who sorted this out for me np
I did learn form it as I now double check everything when going back under a trailer drop suspension when under I get out of cab check then raise suspension the go back slowly double check the tug test get out check pin with torch if dark also check handle is in right
So if you see a female driver getting out cab to check a few times before coupling up it might be me
This can be done normally happens with a Scania for some reason
If you mean a gap between the fifth wheel and trailer that would foreseeably be a result of that mad idea of lowering the unit then lifting it but possibly with not enough height to lift the trailer off its legs.All because of trying to stop a bit of grease getting pushed off the fifth wheel while coupling using,‘what should be’,the idea of making sure that the trailer is already sitting at a lower level than fifth wheel height,‘before’ putting the unit under it.With insult added to injury in the form of trailers being dropped too high.
Yep there was a slight gap between the fifth wheel & trailer I did lift unit up hight enough as alway make sure the legs are off the ground slightly as I was taught
It not only happens when you lower / lift unit as said asked if it was a Scania as they are know for this small gap between the fight wheel & unit although not very often
When it happened I did post on here about it as was a while ago now although the trailer didn’t move I was also lucky that it want heavy & there were folk lifts about also a fitter to help with air line that was snapped
Carryfast:
If you mean a gap between the fifth wheel and trailer that would foreseeably be a result of that mad idea of lowering the unit then lifting it but possibly with not enough height to lift the trailer off its legs.All because of trying to stop a bit of grease getting pushed off the fifth wheel while coupling using,‘what should be’,the idea of making sure that the trailer is already sitting at a lower level than fifth wheel height,‘before’ putting the unit under it.With insult added to injury in the form of trailers being dropped too high.
Yep there was a slight gap between the fifth wheel & trailer I did lift unit up hight enough as alway make sure the legs are off the ground slightly as I was taught
It not only happens when you lower / lift unit as said asked if it was a Scania as they are know for this small gap between the fight wheel & unit although not very often
When it happened I did post on here about it as was a while ago now although the trailer didn’t move I was also lucky that it want heavy & there were folk lifts about also a fitter to help with air line that was snapped
Logically the situation of the unit lifting the legs off the ground without the trailer sitting on the fifth wheel turn table would realistically be the foreseeable result of having lifted the unit when it was too far back under the trailer thereby fouling the pin against the jaws of the fifth wheel.Which is why the trailer needs to be sitting lower than the height of the fifth wheel ‘before’ putting the unit under it so that it’s lifted by the unit ramps or the fifth wheel chamfered forks to guarantee that the trailer is sitting on the turntable well before the pin goes into the jaws.On that note assuming the trailer needs to be supported by the fifth wheel at the point where the fifth wheel rear chamfered forks have gone under what does lowering the unit then lifting it actually achieve other than to create that situation of lifting it at the wrong point when it’s too far under.Also bearing in mind that the grease issue will obviously apply in all cases assuming the fifth wheel is supporting the trailer at that correct point when reversing the unit against the pin.
[quote="CarryfastThe unit needs to lift the trailer from the first point of contact as an essential part of a safe coupling procedure.If you’ve got a height mismatch that won’t allow that then that mismatch needs to be dealt with ‘before’ starting to put the unit under the trailer not after.Which in the real world means a visual check either outside or by use of the mirrors that confirms the trailer height is no higher than the unit ramps or at least the chamfered forks at the rear of the fifth wheel.While using air suspension to adjust the height of the unit to a high trailer could foreseeably result in the situation of that unit height adjustment running out before the unit is at the correct height to actually lift the trailer off it’s legs as it goes under the trailer.In which case using the old school steel suspension method of winding the trailer down is arguably preferable to raising the unit.Which itself is generally the result of people not dropping trailers properly from normal unit running height and/or also not leaving some space under the legs.
[/quote]
Using mirrors to check trailer and unit are height aligned is not an option. In fact, you’d fail your test for doing it. Getting out and checking is the only way, even if it does add twenty seconds onto your day!
Captain Caveman 76:
[quote="CarryfastThe unit needs to lift the trailer from the first point of contact as an essential part of a safe coupling procedure.If you’ve got a height mismatch that won’t allow that then that mismatch needs to be dealt with ‘before’ starting to put the unit under the trailer not after.Which in the real world means a visual check either outside or by use of the mirrors that confirms the trailer height is no higher than the unit ramps or at least the chamfered forks at the rear of the fifth wheel.While using air suspension to adjust the height of the unit to a high trailer could foreseeably result in the situation of that unit height adjustment running out before the unit is at the correct height to actually lift the trailer off it’s legs as it goes under the trailer.In which case using the old school steel suspension method of winding the trailer down is arguably preferable to raising the unit.Which itself is generally the result of people not dropping trailers properly from normal unit running height and/or also not leaving some space under the legs.
Using mirrors to check trailer and unit are height aligned is not an option. In fact, you’d fail your test for doing it. Getting out and checking is the only way, even if it does add twenty seconds onto your day!
[/quote]
Assuming it’s fitted with ramps then it’s just a case of clearing the mudguards with minimum clearance and the trailer then can’t be anything but height aligned with the ramps and obviously lower than fifth wheel height.While assuming it hasn’t got ramps then it will obviously need to be checked against the height of the fifth wheel’s chamfered fork ends themselves from outside.
Either of which are better than the procedure actually being described of lowering the unit,thereby putting the trailer above fifth wheel height,then reversing it under then lifting it in the hope that (1) it’s not gone back far enough for the pin to foul the jaws as it’s being lifted.Or (2) that the trailer hasn’t been dropped higher than the available suspension height adjustment.
All to supposedly save the bit of grease being wiped off the fifth wheel by the trailer as the fifth wheel slides into place and lifts the trailer at the same time thereby guaranteeing that the pin is in the correct position vertically v the jaws.Which is an inevitable result of coupling the thing properly using the ramps and/or fifth wheel to lift the trailer not the suspension.Which is the point.On that note I’m still waiting for an answer by the unit lifters as to what the chamfered fork ends on the fifth wheel,let alone ramps,are there for if not for lifting the trailer onto the turntable while coupling.
Carryfast:
The unit needs to lift the trailer from the first point of contact as an essential part of a safe coupling procedure.If you’ve got a height mismatch that won’t allow that then that mismatch needs to be dealt with ‘before’ starting to put the unit under the trailer not after.Which in the real world means a visual check either outside or by use of the mirrors that confirms the trailer height is no higher than the unit ramps or at least the chamfered forks at the rear of the fifth wheel.While using air suspension to adjust the height of the unit to a high trailer could foreseeably result in the situation of that unit height adjustment running out before the unit is at the correct height to actually lift the trailer off it’s legs as it goes under the trailer.In which case using the old school steel suspension method of winding the trailer down is arguably preferable to raising the unit.Which itself is generally the result of people not dropping trailers properly from normal unit running height and/or also not leaving some space under the legs.
Using mirrors to check trailer and unit are height aligned is not an option. In fact, you’d fail your test for doing it. Getting out and checking is the only way, even if it does add twenty seconds onto your day!
Assuming it’s fitted with ramps then it’s just a case of clearing the mudguards with minimum clearance and the trailer then can’t be anything but height aligned with the ramps and obviously lower than fifth wheel height.While assuming it hasn’t got ramps then it will obviously need to be checked against the height of the fifth wheel’s chamfered fork ends themselves from outside.
Either of which are better than the procedure actually being described of lowering the unit,thereby putting the trailer above fifth wheel height,then reversing it under then lifting it in the hope that (1) it’s not gone back far enough for the pin to foul the jaws as it’s being lifted.Or (2) that the trailer hasn’t been dropped higher than the available suspension height adjustment. If the trailer is higher than the fifth wheel it doesn’t matter what method you use, you’ll still need to lower the trailer.
All to supposedly save the bit of grease being wiped off the fifth wheel by the trailer as the fifth wheel slides into place and lifts the trailer at the same time thereby guaranteeing that the pin is in the correct position vertically v the jaws.Which is an inevitable result of coupling the thing properly using the ramps and/or fifth wheel to lift the trailer not the suspension.Which is the point. Being a cab hopper AND a professional driver I take great pride in leaving units in the best possible condition, inside and out, (Usually a good deal better than when I picked them up!). Not to mention the fact that grease on the raised platform I am expected to walk on is a health hazard. Reversing under before raising the arse end is just as safe as reversing under, but without the added risk of buckling the ramps.
On that note I’m still waiting for an answer by the unit lifters as to what the chamfered fork ends on the fifth wheel,let alone ramps,are there for if not for lifting the trailer onto the turntable while coupling. Since I was taught to wind the legs to the floor then back up half a turn, perhaps they are there to give the trailer a nice smooth descent when dropping off and saving mudguards from being ripped off.
I really don’t understand your beef with this method. It takes no longer, is safe and it keeps the unit free from grease.
boredwivdrivin:
And isnt it funny how the most know all members on this forum know jack shiiite about anything eh evil
Do you ever think through what you’re about to say before saying it■■?
Please explain to me how YOU came into the industry, and knew EVERYTHING right off the bat?
And while you ponder that, I’ll apologise for not knowing everything right from the start, although I am wondering what specifically you are referring to? Why should i hand my licence back? What have I said that demonstrates I’m a hopeless case that shouldn’t be allowed to have a licence? Have I had a succession of accidents, mishaps, errors or misunderstandings that leads you to that conclusion? Or are you just spouting bile because the issue is more with you, than me■■?
I can appreciate and accept that I’m not going to be everyone’s flavour of the month, and Isaac Hunt makes that clear in the TruckNet awards thread! But to me (Like yourself) he’s a bit of a negative grump, as he has criticised me for giving advice on this forum to other Newbies. Now I wasn’t aware that there was some special time limit for being a trucker, before you can give, or pass on advice about what you have learnt to others… And like yourself, he hasn’t thought through (that as a Newbie myself) I’m probably more aware of what it feels like to be a newbie searching for wisdom than he is. So when a fellow Newbie specifically asks me for advice I’ll give it willingly! Plus I also have the benefit of what I post on here being moderated by the experienced HELPFUL members, who can set me straight if i get something wrong, or add to what I’ve said to improve my own knowledge!
But all of this seems to be beyond your comprehension, and I already know that my efforts to try and educate YOU on this topic is a waste of time, as you are a bitter old dinosaur. Your purpose on this forum seems to be to ■■■■■ and moan, and when you can, attempt to be clever by putting others down in a vein attempt to make yourself feel better! But it doesn’t work though does it, as the Snowman slaps you senseless every time. So looking forward for 2016, why don’t you turn over a new leaf and try to have fun on the forum, as that’s what I try to do, as to me this place is a learning opportunity, and if I can do that while having a laugh, I’m going to ■■■■ well do it. I’m sorry if that upsets you and maybe a few others, but get over it and cheer up mate!!!
Steevo:
How did we used to manage on steel springs■■?
You made sure you dropped the trailer low enough so when someone picked it up it ran up the ramps. Companies tend to have same trailers you just got used to it.
No mate, my knickers are not at all twisted you lobotomized dipstick…
So why don’t you go ahead and explain to me how you knew everything the moment you stepped into a truck?
Or will you do your normal thing of criticising others and ignoring the points put to you?
Carryfast:
The unit needs to lift the trailer from the first point of contact as an essential part of a safe coupling procedure.If you’ve got a height mismatch that won’t allow that then that mismatch needs to be dealt with ‘before’ starting to put the unit under the trailer not after.Which in the real world means a visual check either outside or by use of the mirrors that confirms the trailer height is no higher than the unit ramps or at least the chamfered forks at the rear of the fifth wheel.While using air suspension to adjust the height of the unit to a high trailer could foreseeably result in the situation of that unit height adjustment running out before the unit is at the correct height to actually lift the trailer off it’s legs as it goes under the trailer.In which case using the old school steel suspension method of winding the trailer down is arguably preferable to raising the unit.Which itself is generally the result of people not dropping trailers properly from normal unit running height and/or also not leaving some space under the legs.
Using mirrors to check trailer and unit are height aligned is not an option. In fact, you’d fail your test for doing it. Getting out and checking is the only way, even if it does add twenty seconds onto your day!
Assuming it’s fitted with ramps then it’s just a case of clearing the mudguards with minimum clearance and the trailer then can’t be anything but height aligned with the ramps and obviously lower than fifth wheel height.While assuming it hasn’t got ramps then it will obviously need to be checked against the height of the fifth wheel’s chamfered fork ends themselves from outside.
Either of which are better than the procedure actually being described of lowering the unit,thereby putting the trailer above fifth wheel height,then reversing it under then lifting it in the hope that (1) it’s not gone back far enough for the pin to foul the jaws as it’s being lifted.Or (2) that the trailer hasn’t been dropped higher than the available suspension height adjustment. If the trailer is higher than the fifth wheel it doesn’t matter what method you use, you’ll still need to lower the trailer.
All to supposedly save the bit of grease being wiped off the fifth wheel by the trailer as the fifth wheel slides into place and lifts the trailer at the same time thereby guaranteeing that the pin is in the correct position vertically v the jaws.Which is an inevitable result of coupling the thing properly using the ramps and/or fifth wheel to lift the trailer not the suspension.Which is the point. Being a cab hopper AND a professional driver I take great pride in leaving units in the best possible condition, inside and out, (Usually a good deal better than when I picked them up!). Not to mention the fact that grease on the raised platform I am expected to walk on is a health hazard. Reversing under before raising the arse end is just as safe as reversing under, but without the added risk of buckling the ramps.
On that note I’m still waiting for an answer by the unit lifters as to what the chamfered fork ends on the fifth wheel,let alone ramps,are there for if not for lifting the trailer onto the turntable while coupling. Since I was taught to wind the legs to the floor then back up half a turn, perhaps they are there to give the trailer a nice smooth descent when dropping off and saving mudguards from being ripped off.
I really don’t understand your beef with this method. It takes no longer, is safe and it keeps the unit free from grease.
Firstly you’ve conveniently missed the point as to ‘why’ some space needs to be left under the legs when dropping the trailer.IE it’s there to increase the odds that the trailer will be left at the correct ‘lower’ than fifth wheel height when it’s picked up.
As for my ‘beef’ I thought I’d made that clear.In the fact that sooner or later one of these clean greaseless unit muppets will inevitably miscouple a trailer as described by animal and for the reasons I’ve provided and drop the thing in lane 2 of a busy running motorway.On that note,putting a unit under a trailer,that’s sitting at a ‘higher’ height that the fifth wheel ‘and then’ trying to couple it using a similar method as using a demount rigid,which is actually what is being described,is anything but safe.
Steevo:
How did we used to manage on steel springs■■?
You made sure you dropped the trailer low enough so when someone picked it up it ran up the ramps. Companies tend to have same trailers you just got used to it.
Exactly.The important bit being that it guarantees that the trailer will be sitting with all its weight on the fifth wheel turntable not on its legs and therefore the vertical alignment of the pin v the fifth wheel jaws ‘before’ its coupled.
Unlike the bs hit or miss idea of putting the unit under the trailer with a trailer sitting higher than the fifth wheel and then using the air suspension to lift the trailer off its legs without the pin fouling the jaws.All to supposedly save a bit of grease getting on the unit.
On that note there ‘should be’ no difference in the approach to coupling artic trailers regardless of wether its on steel or air suspension.
Steevo:
How did we used to manage on steel springs■■?
You made sure you dropped the trailer low enough so when someone picked it up it ran up the ramps. Companies tend to have same trailers you just got used to it.
Exactly.The important bit being that it guarantees that the trailer will be sitting with all its weight on the fifth wheel turntable not on its legs and therefore the vertical alignment of the pin v the fifth wheel jaws ‘before’ its coupled.
Unlike the bs hit or miss idea of putting the unit under the trailer with a trailer sitting higher than the fifth wheel and then using the air suspension to lift the trailer off its legs without the pin fouling the jaws.All to supposedly save a bit of grease getting on the unit.
On that note there ‘should be’ no difference in the approach to coupling artic trailers regardless of wether its on steel or air suspension.
I really don’t understand how either running the trailer up the rails, or lifting it with the suspension makes any difference to the final pin/jaws lock. As both of these methods lift the legs off the floor and therefore put all the weight on the 5th wheel.
Carryfast:
On that note there ‘should be’ no difference in the approach to coupling artic trailers regardless of wether its on steel or air suspension.
I really don’t understand how either running the trailer up the rails, or lifting it with the suspension makes any difference to the final pin/jaws lock. As both of these methods lift the legs off the floor and therefore put all the weight on the 5th wheel.
As I said the problem is that it introduces the variables of running out of unit height adjustment before the legs are clear of the ground and it not being noticed and/or the hit or miss small amount of distance tolerance between the pin fouling the jaws of the fifth wheel or not as it’s lifted leading to exactly the type of scenario described by animal.
The fact is artics aren’t supposed to be coupled in a similar way as demounts are picked up.The coupling process needs to start with the trailer sitting lower than the height of the fifth wheel and it being picked up by the rearward movement of the unit ramps and/or fifth wheel against the trailer.No ifs no buts and certainly not giving a zb about a bit of grease being shifted off the fifth wheel as part of that process.
More like arrogant younger drivers who think they know it all but know zb all until they drop a trailer at the wrong time in the wrong place.Which probably includes the modern day training regime.
Carryfast:
As I said the problem is that it introduces the variables of running out of unit height adjustment before the legs are clear of the ground and it not being noticed and/or the hit or miss small amount of distance tolerance between the pin fouling the jaws of the fifth wheel or not as it’s lifted leading to exactly the type of scenario described by animal.
The fact is artics aren’t supposed to be coupled in a similar way as demounts are picked up.The coupling process needs to start with the trailer sitting lower than the height of the fifth wheel and it being picked up by the rearward movement of the unit ramps and/or fifth wheel against the trailer.No ifs no buts and certainly not giving a zb about a bit of grease being shifted off the fifth wheel as part of that process.
Well doesn’t that just mean the trailer was dropped high and needs lowering?
So the issue is not whether you run the trailer up the runners, or pick it up with the suspension, as in either case you will have have to lower the trailer. And if you normally rely on just ramming the the truck at the trailer to run it up the bars, you’re putting yourself in a position where you’re more likely to remodel the back of the cab because you took your eye off the ball one time. (I’ve never done or seen this method, but would assume you need to give it a bit of welly?)
But if you always pick the trailer up with the suspension, you will see you have a problem when the trailer doesn’t lift.
But to me (Like yourself) he’s a bit of a negative grump, as he has criticised me for giving advice on this forum to other Newbies. Now I wasn’t aware that there was some special time limit for being a trucker, before you can give, or pass on advice about what you have learnt to others… And like yourself, he hasn’t thought through (that as a Newbie myself) I’m probably more aware of what it feels like to be a newbie searching for wisdom than he is. So when a fellow Newbie specifically asks me for advice I’ll give it willingly! Plus I also have the benefit of what I post on here being moderated by the experienced HELPFUL members, who can set me straight if i get something wrong, or add to what I’ve said to improve my own knowledge!