Saw a trailer dropped on its nose at a roundabout at Immingham Docks yesterday, anyone on here? 
Out of curiosity, what are the chances that it wasn’t the driver’s fault? How likely is the fifth wheel coupling to fail if you’ve coupled up properly and your chain is in?
When were fifth wheels introduced and what was there before them?
Yours,
Curious of Barnsley.
Most likely the drivers fault and they were invented in 1915.
The name FIFTH wheel comes from there actually being a wheel there before the modern turntables we see today
As for was it the drivers fault or not??
I have seen it where the pin has actually broken off the trailer ( it’s very rare tho )
I have seen it where the pin has actually broken off the trailer ( it’s very rare tho )
Never seen that - but have seen a turntable ripped off the chassis but still clamped around the pin !
Its entirely possible to pick a trailer up without it being in correctly, rare but it usually happens on uneven ground when it does, what happens is the king pin enters the fifth wheel jaws at an angle which closes the jaws, but they’ve closed under the pin and its sitting on top of the jaws not locked in, tug test clip in all good but its still not in.
I didn’t believe it could happen, but one of my oppos dropped an empty trailer on London embankment after travelling all the way from Bristol, none of us could work out what happened.
Several months later i’m picking up a loaded trailer dropped on rough ground as described, something about the sound of the jaws locking didn’t fill me with confidence so after i’d connected i pulled the trailer gently off the bank and onto the flat, got out and had a poke nose, sure enough daylight visible between fifth wheel and rubbing late and shining a torch in showed the pin to be sitting on the locked jaws… 
That was a wake up for me, and my pick up routine since always involves making sure i’m actually picking the trailer up before pushing the fifth wheel onto the pin, and then when hitched shine me torch from behind the fifth wheel to actually see the jaws and pin in place.
Some new guy dropped one at our place while I was off doing my class 1.
He’d gone by the time I returned!
As for lifting the trailer before backing onto the pin, that’s what I always do as it’s the way I’ve been taught.
Doesn’t everyone do that?
Hah, if only Evil, i’ve seen 'em too bone idle to even open a window and look out, and never even slow down to check heights, just ram straight back on mirrors alone just keep going till the vehicle stops, great if it happens to be the pin locking in the jaws, not so good it its missed the pin entirely and its the cab chassis/lights smashing on the landing legs or worse still the front of the trailer against the cab/deflectors/hydraulic tank.
Seen a regular driver repeatedly mashing the fifth wheel (which had tilted wrong way due to dropping too high previously) up the front of the supermarket box trailer, several hits by the way till i managed to attract their attention and pointed out why it wouldn’t hitch up, looking at the row of identical trailers this would appear to be a daily ritual… 
Its not a new phenomenon, nearly 40 years ago i watched in awe the Castrol shunter (dunno if that day or permanent) doing his circus comedy routine, to pick up take a run up flat out and don’t lift off till it hits and the vehicle stops with the empty trailer some several feet further back than it was with a noise like hell…this back in the days before spring brakes where a trailer might well have no brakes at all (cable parking brake often seized or off its spool in a worthless tangle) and hitting it at speed could send it flying across a yard, utter imbecile who presumably thought he was making an impression, he was.
So many times i wish i’d been an amateur video enthusiast…
Adonis.:
Saw a trailer dropped on its nose at a roundabout at Immingham Docks yesterday, anyone on here?Out of curiosity, what are the chances that it wasn’t the driver’s fault? How likely is the fifth wheel coupling to fail if you’ve coupled up properly and your chain is in?
When were fifth wheels introduced and what was there before them?
Yours,
Curious of Barnsley.
Was that as you were leaving/arriving at Humber sea terminal? A white daf xf, and a blue white NDQ trailer, the nose of the trailer was in the ditch.
Funny you mention that Juddian, I watched one of our artic drivers couple up, do the tug test and everything. Pulled forward, he turned right, the trailer went sorta followed before hitting the deck pulling the suzies out. To the OP, what trailer was it? Was it blue or black?
I’ve clearly a lot to learn, as I’d never back on to a trailer without dropping the suspension first. Followed by ensuring I’d lifted the trailer up before completing the pin locking. I wasn’t aware that rough or uneven ground could also be a factor, but that’s not really an issue in our yard…
I’ve been told that the pin depth can vary on some trailers, and this coupled with the ability to move the 5th wheel, makes me always get out and check how much further I’ve got to go before I remodel the back of the truck!
I was also a bit surprised that when Ash spent a day with me, that he wasn’t shown/told to lift the trailer when backing in during his trainer. As it turns out, the suspension was knackered on his training vehicle, so the only way he could hitch up during his training was to run the trailer up the running bars (if that’s the right name for them). And talking about running bars, I’ve seen at least one unit without these, which just seems crazy considering the consequences of not having them!
Evil8Beezle:
he wasn’t shown/told to lift the trailer when backing in during his trainer.
i was not either 
however on my DHL training i have been told lots of useful things including this one
Evil8Beezle:
Some new guy dropped on at our place while I was off doing my class 1.
He’d gone by the time I returned!As for lifting the trailer before backing onto the pin, that’s what I always do as it’s the way I’ve been taught.
Doesn’t everyone do that?
I was always taught do this for three reasons. 1) make sure the pin hasn’t gone over the fifth wheel 2) stops the trailer pushing fifth wheel grease onto the catwalk 3) makes it easier to wind the legs up if there isn’t as much weight on them.
Much easier with a manual though, auto’s tend to get stuck then fly backwards with a bang!
Priest:
Evil8Beezle:
he wasn’t shown/told to lift the trailer when backing in during his trainer.i was not either
Grr, its grossly unfair to new drivers not to drill the basics into them, bloody bad enough trying to get a start as a newby without the fair chance you could drop a trailer completely or at the very least get yourself in a right bleedin pickle and do some damage by not following the basic routine, and then you’ve bollocksed your new job up with the possibility of that following you around the locality.
Trainers !!! over to you, again.
Good point Evil about checking there’s enough room for the trailer front to fit depending on fifth wheel position and kin pin depth, long time served drivers don’t even give that a second thought when they go banging in 
Captain Caveman 76:
Evil8Beezle:
Some new guy dropped on at our place while I was off doing my class 1.
He’d gone by the time I returned!As for lifting the trailer before backing onto the pin, that’s what I always do as it’s the way I’ve been taught.
Doesn’t everyone do that?I was always taught do this for three reasons. 1) make sure the pin hasn’t gone over the fifth wheel 2) stops the trailer pushing fifth wheel grease onto the catwalk 3) makes it easier to wind the legs up if there isn’t as much weight on them.
Much easier with a manual though, auto’s tend to get stuck then fly backwards with a bang!
Oh yessss… good man yerself, a pint of whatever Sir Caveman is drinking please barman…someone else who realises manual is bestest…be quick now Caveman to deny cos they’ll be along soon to call you a Luddite or worse…
As for grease on the catwalk, our tractors get serviced at night, and i can guarantee whoever hitches it up on nights will just shove it straight under wiping all that new grease straight up the front of the trailer where it then usefully gets wiped all over the suzies and tipping pipe and then forms lovely pattern on the catwalk, wonderful stuff…last week i was actually able to connect me own up after service for the first time in months, what a pleasure to actually get the grease in the right place just for once.
Captain Caveman 76:
Evil8Beezle:
Some new guy dropped on at our place while I was off doing my class 1.
He’d gone by the time I returned!As for lifting the trailer before backing onto the pin, that’s what I always do as it’s the way I’ve been taught.
Doesn’t everyone do that?I was always taught do this for three reasons. 1) make sure the pin hasn’t gone over the fifth wheel 2) stops the trailer pushing fifth wheel grease onto the catwalk 3) makes it easier to wind the legs up if there isn’t as much weight on them.
Much easier with a manual though, auto’s tend to get stuck then fly backwards with a bang!
I think I was lucky, as I was actually taught this at my gig for the above reasons, before I even did my training…
They even made me do it with a full cup of coffee on the back of the unit, and I’d fail if I spilt any of it!
I managed it once and was then told to uncouple, and drive around the yard to do it again!
But as I was about to back under for the second time, a forkie came over and knocked the cup off! 
That was my bloody coffee!
That was in an Auto Juddian! 
As a matter of routine I always shine my torch through the jaws of the 5th wheel when I’m coupling up. If I can still see the pin the I know there’s a problem. I wouldn’t set off without checking, I did this when I did an assessment once and their trainer said he’d never had anyone do that before but we’ll done.
Something similar (and embarassing ) I dropped my trailer in one of our depots last week for a unit repair, came back and the headboard was level with the ground, it had sank both legs into the ground…never happened to me before in 35+ years.
Turns out there was a thin concrete strip to drop the legs on, which I was about 2 inches off, entirely my fault admittedly , but in my defence it was black dark, and I just did not see it.
I did not get a bollocking off the depot manager, as he saw how genuinely ■■■■■■ I was about it, and he knew I wasn’t a new driver so would (or should) have known better anyway, so it would have achieved nothing.
Instead he supervised and helped lift it…a decent guy and I owe him one.
Juddian:
Captain Caveman 76:
Evil8Beezle:
Some new guy dropped on at our place while I was off doing my class 1.
He’d gone by the time I returned!As for lifting the trailer before backing onto the pin, that’s what I always do as it’s the way I’ve been taught.
Doesn’t everyone do that?I was always taught do this for three reasons. 1) make sure the pin hasn’t gone over the fifth wheel 2) stops the trailer pushing fifth wheel grease onto the catwalk 3) makes it easier to wind the legs up if there isn’t as much weight on them.
Much easier with a manual though, auto’s tend to get stuck then fly backwards with a bang!Oh yessss… good man yerself, a pint of whatever Sir Caveman is drinking please barman…someone else who realises manual is bestest…be quick now Caveman to deny cos they’ll be along soon to call you a Luddite or worse…
As for grease on the catwalk, our tractors get serviced at night, and i can guarantee whoever hitches it up on nights will just shove it straight under wiping all that new grease straight up the front of the trailer where it then usefully gets wiped all over the suzies and tipping pipe and then forms lovely pattern on the catwalk, wonderful stuff…last week i was actually able to connect me own up after service for the first time in months, what a pleasure to actually get the grease in the right place just for once.
I learnt in a manual and my first few jobs were in a manual too. There’s certain times when a manual gives you so much more control. Of course auto makes things so much easier. Somebody give me a three pedal auto scania and my life would be complete! (Apart from having to drive a scania of course! )
ps juddian, mines a diet coke, no ice. Ta. 
Cavey
philgor:
Adonis.:
Saw a trailer dropped on its nose at a roundabout at Immingham Docks yesterday, anyone on here?Out of curiosity, what are the chances that it wasn’t the driver’s fault? How likely is the fifth wheel coupling to fail if you’ve coupled up properly and your chain is in?
When were fifth wheels introduced and what was there before them?
Yours,
Curious of Barnsley.
Was that as you were leaving/arriving at Humber sea terminal? A white daf xf, and a blue white NDQ trailer, the nose of the trailer was in the ditch.
It was at the roundabout just down from Knauf (Pretty sure its Knauf) at the East gate.
Was a white XF unit and I think a 20ft box on a skelly. Didn’t look to be in a ditch, looked like the trailer had landed partly on the roundabout, the legs were well damaged anyway. The nose of the trailer was in the middle of the tar.
Don’t tell me there was 2 in one day in the same place
Interesting on picking up trailers too, personally I lift until I can see the legs are off the ground before I commit to going right back but see plenty that just fly back under without checking heights or anything.
A.
Evil8Beezle:
Captain Caveman 76:
Evil8Beezle:
Some new guy dropped on at our place while I was off doing my class 1.
He’d gone by the time I returned!As for lifting the trailer before backing onto the pin, that’s what I always do as it’s the way I’ve been taught.
Doesn’t everyone do that?That was in an Auto Juddian!
lalala fingers in ear a la wet willie, bet it weren’t a bloody ageing Daf with arsetronic and the on/off switch clutch engager…