it happened to me about 7 years ago,as i’ve posted before.pin on the trailer broke near j14 of the m1. started to pull away from the lights,and noticed in my mirror the trailer wasn’t following! a couple of minutes later i would have been on the motorway…
Juddian:
How did we manage on steel springs?We managed just like anything else, the big difference being if we were dropping an empty we’d leave about 3" of space under the landing legs to allow for spring compression, every tractor had pick up ramps then, you needed them and they were far more sturdy items than they are now.
We had idiots then just like now, those who couldn’t grasp the concept of spring compression when loaded and would, three sheets in the wind, wind the legs right down to the ground…this happened especially with drivers who had sliding fifth wheels, rare then because the average tractor had a short wheelbase, they obviously sat higher anyway but expecting them to take that into consideration as well as dropping gap was too much for them to cope with.
Trailers didn’t always have two speed landing gears, so if some plonker had dropped it high empty and it was loaded where it stood, it was the case of searching for blocks and planks to run the tractor back wheels up to lift the trailer a bit cos you’d never get the legs up in a month of Sundays.Oh Boredwivlivin, what difference did three airlines make…apart from the fact it made for safer braking cos you had a full secondary braking system, which you aint got now…we only had one electrical suzy then so a total of 4 connections on the average lorry.
The big difference then is that most cabs were smallish, mostly day cabs, and nearly all had windows in the back so you were actually watching the fifth wheel do its thing directly through said window, you could see if was right height and we all had manual clutches so we had more control over how gently or not we had to connect up.
No, grease didn’t matter so much then because you could usually have a picnic between the tractor and trailer they were so far apart, grease didn’t fall on the catwalk it fell behind it (partly cos the pins were usually right at the front of the trailer and the lines didn’t get greasy because they were generally mounted fairly high on the back of the tractor and didn’t drop onto the catwalk either, even in the tightest of jack knife’s, unless you ran foreign spec trailer such as tilts with deep pins, the lines would simply bend round the corner of the front of the trailer and go nowhere near any grease.
Parking brakes, well we more or less ignored them, most were cable and if they weren’t seized up some plonker would most likely have wound them off the spool and they be jammed solid, they only worked for MOT and a month after in most cases, and any driver picking up a trailer he didn’t know would assume the air would have drained out and the brakes released as they did then, so the first thing you did was to back up close to the trailer, ie slide the ramps under but not actually lifting it, then connect the red line and blow some air in to put the brakes on then release it again and listen for the right sounds…remember some units had trailer only brake levers (superb) so you could at this point if you wished connect up the air lines and put the trailer air brakes on fully.
Just as now you used you common sense, those who had no common sense then were just as useless as those who have none now.
Maybe we took more pride then, most lorry drivers kept their lorries clean by use of the yard steam cleaner, none of this truckwash ■■■■■■■■ (must think they’re fatty car drivers, standing round finger up arse whilst someone else cleans it), lorries got cleaned properly by hand not a lick and a prayer from a passing twirly brush.How did we learn, we asked old hands, not many old hands about now and many of them haven’t got two minutes to live to give a new lad some help and pointers, hence this forum is a great source of info, and some of us who might just have benefitted from having a mentor…an older driver at a place you started at who took you under his wing…well this place gives us the honour of passing that help on.
As for your dig at certain members, some of our new lads are trying their best to do the job right and take a pride in it, they will be the old school in the future and hopefully pass it on to newbies in their own good time, if you can’t see that as a good positive thing for all then all i can do is offer you a Merry Christmas.
Hey Juddian, great post, you only forgot to tell there was a lot more swearing when finding a trailer at the wrong hight 
These days, with air suspension, ramps are a nuisance.
Captain Caveman 76:
boredwivdrivin:
Steevo:
How did we used to manage on steel springs■■?Exactly .
And how did we manage before 5th wheels had springs in them , and you had to manually open AND close the bar handle ■■
Or when we had 3 airlines ?
Or manual hanbrakes ?
Or landing legs had no handles ?
How did we manage when the only training came via school of hard knocks …
When there was no one to hold our hands and wipe our bums .And isnt it funny how the most know all members on this forum know jack shiiite about anything eh evil
You’re a [zb] dinosaur. A throwback to a bygone age. The world’s moved on but you’re still stuck in the “good old days” that weren’t really that good. Leave the modern world to us youngsters.
It was only in the 90s, Not that long ago and we didn’t seem to drop trailers then!
Cheers Bald, i’ll have you know i’m still swearing just as (far too) much, just the subject has varied slightly over the years… 
some of the ones who make you swear most are older drivers who you’d think would know better by now and appreciate a good job by doing it right . 
One of my oppos found the good point about pick up ramps only last week, he forget to wind the legs down dropping an empty, (of course WE have never done anything like that 
) the sound of it dropping onto the pick up ramps saved it being a big drop with possible wrecked trailer suzies (or smashed unit rear air tank on some), so they still have their place, must have happened similarly with my regular tractor a few times as every now and again a big wadge of slid grease appears half way down them.
boredwivdrivin:
And isnt it funny how the most know all members on this forum know jack shiiite about anything eh evil
Do you ever think through what you’re about to say before saying it■■?
Please explain to me how YOU came into the industry, and knew EVERYTHING right off the bat?
And while you ponder that, I’ll apologise for not knowing everything right from the start, although I am wondering what specifically you are referring to? Why should i hand my licence back? What have I said that demonstrates I’m a hopeless case that shouldn’t be allowed to have a licence? Have I had a succession of accidents, mishaps, errors or misunderstandings that leads you to that conclusion? Or are you just spouting bile because the issue is more with you, than me■■?
I can appreciate and accept that I’m not going to be everyone’s flavour of the month, and Isaac Hunt makes that clear in the TruckNet awards thread! But to me (Like yourself) he’s a bit of a negative grump, as he has criticised me for giving advice on this forum to other Newbies. Now I wasn’t aware that there was some special time limit for being a trucker, before you can give, or pass on advice about what you have learnt to others… And like yourself, he hasn’t thought through (that as a Newbie myself) I’m probably more aware of what it feels like to be a newbie searching for wisdom than he is. So when a fellow Newbie specifically asks me for advice I’ll give it willingly! Plus I also have the benefit of what I post on here being moderated by the experienced HELPFUL members, who can set me straight if i get something wrong, or add to what I’ve said to improve my own knowledge!
But all of this seems to be beyond your comprehension, and I already know that my efforts to try and educate YOU on this topic is a waste of time, as you are a bitter old dinosaur. Your purpose on this forum seems to be to ■■■■■ and moan, and when you can, attempt to be clever by putting others down in a vein attempt to make yourself feel better! But it doesn’t work though does it, as the Snowman slaps you senseless every time. So looking forward for 2016, why don’t you turn over a new leaf and try to have fun on the forum, as that’s what I try to do, as to me this place is a learning opportunity, and if I can do that while having a laugh, I’m going to ■■■■ well do it. I’m sorry if that upsets you and maybe a few others, but get over it and cheer up mate!!! 
Evil8Beezle:
boredwivdrivin:
And isnt it funny how the most know all members on this forum know jack shiiite about anything eh evilDo you ever think through what you’re about to say before saying it■■?
Please explain to me how YOU came into the industry, and knew EVERYTHING right off the bat?
And while you ponder that, I’ll apologise for not knowing everything right from the start, although I am wondering what specifically you are referring to? Why should i hand my licence back? What have I said that demonstrates I’m a hopeless case that shouldn’t be allowed to have a licence? Have I had a succession of accidents, mishaps, errors or misunderstandings that leads you to that conclusion? Or are you just spouting bile because the issue is more with you, than me■■?
I can appreciate and accept that I’m not going to be everyone’s flavour of the month, and Isaac Hunt makes that clear in the TruckNet awards thread!
But all of this seems to be beyond your comprehension, and I already know that my efforts to try and educate YOU on this topic is a waste of time, as you are a bitter old dinosaur. Your purpose on this forum seems to be to ■■■■■ and moan, and when you can, attempt to be clever by putting others down in a vein attempt to make yourself feel better! But it doesn’t work though does it, as the Snowman slaps you senseless every time. So looking forward for 2016, why don’t you turn over a new leaf and try to have fun on the forum, as that’s what I try to do, as to me this place is a learning opportunity, and if I can do that while having a laugh, I’m going to ■■■■ well do it. I’m sorry if that upsets you and maybe a few others, but get over it and cheer up mate!!!
Keep asking questions, most of the time it’s a lot cheaper then learning the hard way , and by asking another newbie might pick something usefull up as well.We sometimes consider something as evident, but it might not be that evident for somebody new.
Most of us, old timers, learned by example, going with our dad or a another family member, long before we went for our license, (and if we did anything wrong, a clip around the ears made sure we never forgot 
), and we learned slowly, but surely.
Steevo:
Captain Caveman 76:
You’re a [zb] dinosaur. A throwback to a bygone age. The world’s moved on but you’re still stuck in the “good old days” that weren’t really that good. Leave the modern world to us youngsters.It was only in the 90s, Not that long ago and we didn’t seem to drop trailers then!
From memory the first/only units I drove with air were DAF 85/95’s.Even in that case picking up and dropping trailers was done in just the same way as with steel with no need to mess about with the height control.The modern way seems to be to couple up an artic like a demount rigid with obvious results.
On that note the obvious question for the unit lifters is why does the fifth wheel coupling have the chamfered forks at the back of it just the same today as in the days of steel ?.
Adonis.:
philgor:
Adonis.:
Saw a trailer dropped on its nose at a roundabout at Immingham Docks yesterday, anyone on here?Out of curiosity, what are the chances that it wasn’t the driver’s fault? How likely is the fifth wheel coupling to fail if you’ve coupled up properly and your chain is in?
When were fifth wheels introduced and what was there before them?
Yours,
Curious of Barnsley.
Was that as you were leaving/arriving at Humber sea terminal? A white daf xf, and a blue white NDQ trailer, the nose of the trailer was in the ditch.
It was at the roundabout just down from Knauf (Pretty sure its Knauf) at the East gate.
Was a white XF unit and I think a 20ft box on a skelly. Didn’t look to be in a ditch, looked like the trailer had landed partly on the roundabout, the legs were well damaged anyway. The nose of the trailer was in the middle of the tar.
Don’t tell me there was 2 in one day in the same place
Interesting on picking up trailers too, personally I lift until I can see the legs are off the ground before I commit to going right back but see plenty that just fly back under without checking heights or anything.
A.
It was a Quayside unit pulling an east trans trailer. Think it was a reefer but couldn’t be certain. Looked like the legs were wound down as I went past, but the o/s were badly damaged in any event.
Regardless of fault, I kinda felt sorry for the driver 2 days before Xmas, likely to be getting his P45
If ya passed yer CE on wag n drag you wouldn’t know about 5th wheel procedures.
I think a lot of Army fellas came unstuck with that.
Chill out Evil8, there’s some professional grumps on here and I’ve met a few on the job - you know the ones - won’t talk to you unless you’ve been on the firm for at least fifteen years
Juddian:
How did we manage on steel springs?We managed just like anything else, the big difference being if we were dropping an empty we’d leave about 3" of space under the landing legs to allow for spring compression, every tractor had pick up ramps then, you needed them and they were far more sturdy items than they are now.
We had idiots then just like now, those who couldn’t grasp the concept of spring compression when loaded and would, three sheets in the wind, wind the legs right down to the ground…this happened especially with drivers who had sliding fifth wheels, rare then because the average tractor had a short wheelbase, they obviously sat higher anyway but expecting them to take that into consideration as well as dropping gap was too much for them to cope with.
Trailers didn’t always have two speed landing gears, so if some plonker had dropped it high empty and it was loaded where it stood, it was the case of searching for blocks and planks to run the tractor back wheels up to lift the trailer a bit cos you’d never get the legs up in a month of Sundays.Oh Boredwivlivin, what difference did three airlines make…apart from the fact it made for safer braking cos you had a full secondary braking system, which you aint got now…we only had one electrical suzy then so a total of 4 connections on the average lorry.
The big difference then is that most cabs were smallish, mostly day cabs, and nearly all had windows in the back so you were actually watching the fifth wheel do its thing directly through said window, you could see if was right height and we all had manual clutches so we had more control over how gently or not we had to connect up.
No, grease didn’t matter so much then because you could usually have a picnic between the tractor and trailer they were so far apart, grease didn’t fall on the catwalk it fell behind it (partly cos the pins were usually right at the front of the trailer and the lines didn’t get greasy because they were generally mounted fairly high on the back of the tractor and didn’t drop onto the catwalk either, even in the tightest of jack knife’s, unless you ran foreign spec trailer such as tilts with deep pins, the lines would simply bend round the corner of the front of the trailer and go nowhere near any grease.
Parking brakes, well we more or less ignored them, most were cable and if they weren’t seized up some plonker would most likely have wound them off the spool and they be jammed solid, they only worked for MOT and a month after in most cases, and any driver picking up a trailer he didn’t know would assume the air would have drained out and the brakes released as they did then, so the first thing you did was to back up close to the trailer, ie slide the ramps under but not actually lifting it, then connect the red line and blow some air in to put the brakes on then release it again and listen for the right sounds…remember some units had trailer only brake levers (superb) so you could at this point if you wished connect up the air lines and put the trailer air brakes on fully.
Just as now you used you common sense, those who had no common sense then were just as useless as those who have none now.
Maybe we took more pride then, most lorry drivers kept their lorries clean by use of the yard steam cleaner, none of this truckwash ■■■■■■■■ (must think they’re fatty car drivers, standing round finger up arse whilst someone else cleans it), lorries got cleaned properly by hand not a lick and a prayer from a passing twirly brush.How did we learn, we asked old hands, not many old hands about now and many of them haven’t got two minutes to live to give a new lad some help and pointers, hence this forum is a great source of info, and some of us who might just have benefitted from having a mentor…an older driver at a place you started at who took you under his wing…well this place gives us the honour of passing that help on.
As for your dig at certain members, some of our new lads are trying their best to do the job right and take a pride in it, they will be the old school in the future and hopefully pass it on to newbies in their own good time, if you can’t see that as a good positive thing for all then all i can do is offer you a Merry Christmas.
Good one Juddian. Covered quite a bit that I hadn’t thought of saying. Must admit that as far as I know I hadn’t come across a single speed winder in my travels… glad to say. Catwalks, CATWALKS ? I only saw a really uncomfortable place to land if you slipped.
Samledger. This may be controversial but… some drivers aren’t very good!! You will HAVE to use your air suspension sometimes, because some new or crappy drivers will drop their trailers ’ high '.
In other words, a driver may forget to level their air suspension when dropping the trailer. The next driver may then come along, and simply assume the trailer was dropped level. He/she reverses straight under the trailer, the fifth wheel is now too low to connect with the pin, and hey presto!
You now have a trailer buried into your bunk. " MISSED PIN EVENT ". This can also happen if your air suspension IS level, but you have left your mid lift axle raised when dropping the trailer. (Scania’s defo do it).
ALWAYS DROP YOUR TRAILER WITH LEVEL AIR SUSPENSION AND ANY LIFT AXLE DOWN.
ALWAYS USE YOUR AIR SUSPENSION WHEN HOOKING UP.
peterm:
Juddian:
.Good one Juddian. Covered quite a bit that I hadn’t thought of saying. Must admit that as far as I know I hadn’t come across a single speed winder in my travels… glad to say. Catwalks, CATWALKS ? I only saw a really uncomfortable place to land if you slipped.
Cheers Pete, yes suppose we should have used the term catwalk loosely, apart from the fuel tank and sometimes that small square of criss cross welded steel bolted across between the chassis runners (if you were lucky) i can’t remember when i got the first lorry with a catwalk, but then lots of things changed while i was on the cars with a more or less fixed trailer, when i came back on artics we’d lost the blue line (stupid thing to lose) and gained two electrical suzies and catwalks, and gained air suspension too, obviously these changes came in during my car years but seeing as we almost never got involved in dropping and picking up, i had quite a bit to catch up on when re-entering normalish stuff.
I well remember one single geared winder on a 40ft flat which was either on concrete or steel stock, mainly cos we had a right one worked for us who had a Marathon with a sliding fifth wheel, that thing ran about 3" higher than nearly everything else and he always dropped empties at full height, hence building a bloody ramp to try and lift a little bit of weight off the trailer, God he was an embarrassing sod too, guarantee to show you up if you were stuck with him by acting like a little kid, no good trying to tell him either i don’t think he did things with malice he just hadn’t got a clue.
All part and parcel of the job, not complaining just reminiscing.
You’re quite right Eagerbeaver, it aint just the new lads who don’t think when dropping empties, you see enough older ones who should know better every bit as bad.
But then you see trailers that you could near enough walk under without limboing they’re so piggin high yet other numpties back under 'em till the crunch…
eagerbeaver:
Samledger. This may be controversial but… some drivers aren’t very good!! You will HAVE to use your air suspension sometimes, because some new or crappy drivers will drop their trailers ’ high '.In other words, a driver may forget to level their air suspension when dropping the trailer. The next driver may then come along, and simply assume the trailer was dropped level. He/she reverses straight under the trailer, the fifth wheel is now too low to connect with the pin, and hey presto!
You now have a trailer buried into your bunk. " MISSED PIN EVENT ". This can also happen if your air suspension IS level, but you have left your mid lift axle raised when dropping the trailer. (Scania’s defo do it).
ALWAYS DROP YOUR TRAILER WITH LEVEL AIR SUSPENSION AND ANY LIFT AXLE DOWN.
ALWAYS USE YOUR AIR SUSPENSION WHEN HOOKING UP.
The problem is ‘because’ of all this bs messing about with air suspension heights.In which case why would anyone want to raise the height of the unit when dropping a trailer then wind the legs into the ground.
When the the idea ‘should be’ drop it with level suspension also leaving some space under the legs just like in the case of steel.Then when it’s picked up the trailer ‘should’ be at a low enough height v the unit to either be lifted by the ramps or at least the fifth wheel chamfered forks as the unit is pushed under it.All preferably done with level susension.
Anything which says otherwise,supposedly to save a bit of grease getting pushed off the fifth wheel,is just dangerous bollox that will inevitably result in trailers being dropped too high and/or missed pins and/or mis couples at some point.
Cheers eager for the info I no its all going to be a big learning curve and I can’t wait to get stuck in now I think I start work the 4th but will see if it comes off just don’t no what to do that have offered me rather doing container work on dock or they will train me up to do caravans and over sized stuff so just thinking which route to go down
I am still learning myself Sam. But over the last 10 months of class 1 driving, I have learnt quite a lot. The likes of Juddian & Co on here offer really positive and useful advice.
Dipper Dave also offers plenty advice.
Most of which is disturbing. You will pick loads of stuff up Sam, never be afraid to ask advice from experienced drivers.
The worst that can happen is that they call you a knob.
You knob!
Ha ha lol ye I no pal I will do and I’m sure I’ll make a knob of my sen with out a dought
If there’s no resistance I always lift. If there’s no click I always check.
sweepster:
If there’s no resistance I always lift.
The unit needs to lift the trailer from the first point of contact as an essential part of a safe coupling procedure.If you’ve got a height mismatch that won’t allow that then that mismatch needs to be dealt with ‘before’ starting to put the unit under the trailer not after.Which in the real world means a visual check either outside or by use of the mirrors that confirms the trailer height is no higher than the unit ramps or at least the chamfered forks at the rear of the fifth wheel.While using air suspension to adjust the height of the unit to a high trailer could foreseeably result in the situation of that unit height adjustment running out before the unit is at the correct height to actually lift the trailer off it’s legs as it goes under the trailer.In which case using the old school steel suspension method of winding the trailer down is arguably preferable to raising the unit.Which itself is generally the result of people not dropping trailers properly from normal unit running height and/or also not leaving some space under the legs. 
Nobody has mentioned LHD / RHD trailers. In my experience, I’ve observed that diligent drivers who have a good systemised walk-round checking procedure before dropping a trailer, are occasionally caught out when using a mixed fleet of UK & Continental trailers. Continental trailers have their winding handles on the European near-side, rather than the UK near-side. This means that if you are on dock traction, you may well be pulling a variety of both types into the yard (or docks) on any given day. Your well-established walk-round procedure will have one single imperfection: the LHD / RHD winding handle. Even palm couplings versus bayonet types won’t interrupt your walk-round procedure, but the winding handle can catch out even the most seasoned driver. It’s just one of those damned things! Happy New Year! Robert
I managed to drop a trailer once it was even ground ish went back under trailer checked hight ( alway get out & check ) lift up unit then went back under pin clicked in got out of unit checked put pin in finished connecting up as per yep did the tug test
Went to pull off the bay slowly trailer stayed took suzies out in my defence this happened a few times a year but when I told several people about this they asked if I was driving a Scania as this does happen sometimes although it all looks time there is a slight gap yep I had checked it but didn’t see it
No damage done to trailer did snap 1 of the lines where I was they did have a mechanic who sorted this out for me np
I did learn form it as I now double check everything when going back under a trailer drop suspension when under I get out of cab check then raise suspension the go back slowly double check the tug test get out check pin with torch if dark also check handle is in right
So if you see a female driver getting out cab to check a few times before coupling up it might be me
This can be done normally happens with a Scania for some reason