Drivers DCPC.. is it worth the time and money?

coffeeholic · 16 June 2011 21:55

Long distance clara:

Coffeeholic:

Long distance clara:
If you are a drivers hours guru don’t book a drivers hours course.

Where would the fun be in doing that? I have a working knowledge of the hours rules but I’ve heard some of the BS that is taught so I am doing an hours course for sure.

Hello mate can you please expand on the BS you are talking about?

There is plenty of it documented on these boards. Breaks (WTD and EU Driver’s Hurs), rest periods and the digital tacho are among the top contenders. Overspeeds is another popular one.

wheel_nut · 16 June 2011 22:07

Long distance clara:
I agree with you there but you could say the life skills thing about anything. You probably had ■■■ education at school but did they teach you every position? somethings you just have to learn yourself.

As for mixing you up, i had that many people jump on me

We didn’t get that far in ■■■ education classes.

By the way we are all mad in here!

lovlyperson · 17 June 2011 05:26

NO
I dont spend a Hour for that if i dont get it paid,and i dont spend a Penny on it.
I just Bookmarked the Jobcentreplus Website

hitch · 17 June 2011 05:53

is it worth the effort
mmm
only if you want to be a proffessional driver

hitch · 17 June 2011 06:07

there was 3 drivers on a night out in Avon Lodge
supping beer in the bar
a newish driver 2/3 years on the job
one well versed in the job 15 years on the job
and an old boy 35 years on the job

any how the ale flowed and yarns were told
and the old boy tells the youngest
i was in Bahgdad before you was inyour dads bags etc etc
he also told us

HE HAD FORGOTTON MORE THAN WE HAD LEARNED

that my friends is the very reason the the Drivers CPC

moomooland · 17 June 2011 09:34

MrHappy:
This shows what you actually KNOW about the industry. The job is hard enough at the moment, there are enough rules and regulations to make you wanna top yourself, fuel is at an all time high, insurance scams are on the increase, I could go on. Apart from some of the very big outfits, you’d be very hard pushed to find any Haulier is “coining it in.” Your assumption that hauliers are doing the bare minimum, may well be correct, for some, keeping just inside the law is the only way they can continue trading for now, however it is an extremely arrogant view to take.

Just as I pointed out to one of our esteemed colleagues from the HA the other day, you don’t need to come on here telling us what a great service you provide, when all you are doing is spouting off some old ■■■■■■■■ that your organisation’s propaganda dept has turned out, just to justify YOUR existence. You might think you’re providing a wonderful service to us, but really we are just tolerating you because we have no choice.

Incredible

Great post there Mr Happy especially the line…
“You might think you’re providing a wonderful service to us, but really we are just tolerating you because we have no choice”
Spot on.

truckerjon · 17 June 2011 10:51

hitch:
is it worth the effort
mmm
only if you want to be a proffessional driver

The problem is that no one can give a worthwhile explanation as to how sitting in a classroom listening to what can potentially be incorrect information, or just doing the sun crossword while someone tells you 999 facts you already know, and maybe slips in 1 you don’t, will make you a professional driver.
I am not opposed to the DCPC in theory, but in its current form it is flawed, and might just as well be given away with lucky bags.
It will not make it any easier for new drivers to get work, because employers will always look out for experience, so 2 drivers, one with a shiny new licence, and one with 35 years driving experience, both with a DQC go for a job. I know who will have the best chance.
It will not improve our reputation with the general public. There are an awful lot of LGV drivers who know nothing about it, there are far more members of the general public who know nothing about it, and don’t give a ■■■■. In the eyes of the public we will always be a bunch of dangerous killers and rapists, who drive dirty, polluting juggernauts through the tranquility of rural england, holding them up from driving at 90MPH so that they can get to and from work a bit quicker.
It will not improve road safety, as there is no requirement for anything related to road safety being part of the course. Although WTD, drivers’ hours, first aid, manual handling, loading etc, can all be worthwhile courses, they will have very little impact on how the vehicles are actually driven on the road.

I believe that, for new drivers an initial DCPC of say 14 hours on theory, such as Drivers hours and WTD, first aid prior to the practical test, followed by 21 hours of supervised practical training within the first year of holding a licence, would be far more benificial. This might stop many of the “stupid” questions asked on truck forums For “experienced” drivers, on the job training, company inductions and training and a 14 hour refresher on laws every 5 years should be enough. Also, why shouldn’t drivers with x amount of years driving be exempt from the DCPC unless they are involved in a road traffic violation, when they must attend a refresher course.
There is a thread on here about 2 days “free” inductions for agency drivers, where they are expected to train for 2 days with no pay. I am also against this because some companies take advantage of the drivers, however, if this could be counted towards the DCPC, maybe it would lessen the blow.
The training is out there already. we don’t need a quango set up to make us ay for what is generally already available.

Companies like DHL, Wincanton, Stobbarts, Tesco, Asda to name but a few, already have very good in house training programs which are far better than those given by the majority of DCPC trainers, but can not be counted towards the DCPC, OK, I hear you say, we don’t all work for these companies. how about the training companies getting together with these companies and offering the training packages to other drivers?
I don’t have all the answers but I do kmow it needs seriuosly changing.

biscuits · 18 June 2011 07:27

Just to put the time and expense of DCPC into perspective;

For a driver working 50 hours a week, 48 weeks a year the 35 hours over 5 years will take 0.29% of his time.

For a driver earning £20,000 net pa, paying for DCPC himself at £70 per 7 hour session, it will cost 0.35% of his income.

For a self-employed driver losing £100 profit per day it will cost him 0.85% of his income (which includes the above).

For drivers whose boss is paying them to sit and do DCPC then this whole thing is a non-issue, unless they have some strange aversion to sitting in a room rather than a cab for one day a year. If they’re convinced they have nothing to learn they can sit and read a paper.

For drivers whose employer isn’t paying then you have a small price to pay for doing your chosen profession, plus you might learn something new. Although if your boss isn’t paying then he’s a blithering idiot. All operators have to make a legal undertaking that their drivers are properly qualified. Drivers can at least look for a new job with an employer who will train them. Operators will HAVE to have DCPC trained drivers, otherwise on 10th September 2014 they can no longer do business.

For self-employed drivers DCPC does seem to be an extra cost they could do without, albeit a small one.

henrys_cat · 18 June 2011 07:44

truckerjon:
I believe that, for new drivers an initial DCPC of say 14 hours on theory, such as Drivers hours and WTD, first aid prior to the practical test, followed by 21 hours of supervised practical training within the first year of holding a licence, would be far more benificial. This might stop many of the “stupid” questions asked on truck forums For “experienced” drivers, on the job training, company inductions and training and a 14 hour refresher on laws every 5 years should be enough. . **Also, why shouldn’t drivers with x amount of years driving be exempt from the DCPC unless they are involved in a road traffic violation, when they must attend a refresher course.**There is a thread on here about 2 days “free” inductions for agency drivers, where they are expected to train for 2 days with no pay. I am also against this because some companies take advantage of the drivers, however, if this could be counted towards the DCPC, maybe it would lessen the blowThe training is out there already. we don’t need a quango set up to make us ay for what is generally already available.

Fully agree with your points apart from some of the one I highlighted.

I feel that everyone, regardless of experience or number of years in the industry, should attend regular refresher courses on hours laws and new legislation. Some drivers I have met, who have more experience than I have at 12 yrs, have no idea on the recent hours changes or the wtd. Just because you’ve done the job for 20,30,40 yrs it doesn’t mean you know it all, or are upto date on the current hours situation.

coffeeholic · 18 June 2011 09:04

Biscuits:
Just to put the time and expense of DCPC into perspective;

For a driver working 50 hours a week, 48 weeks a year the 35 hours over 5 years will take 0.29% of his time.

For a driver earning £20,000 net pa, paying for DCPC himself at £70 per 7 hour session, it will cost 0.35% of his income.

For a self-employed driver losing £100 profit per day it will cost him 0.85% of his income (which includes the above).

For drivers whose boss is paying them to sit and do DCPC then this whole thing is a non-issue, unless they have some strange aversion to sitting in a room rather than a cab for one day a year. If they’re convinced they have nothing to learn they can sit and read a paper.

For drivers whose employer isn’t paying then you have a small price to pay for doing your chosen profession, plus you might learn something new. Although if your boss isn’t paying then he’s a blithering idiot. All operators have to make a legal undertaking that their drivers are properly qualified. Drivers can at least look for a new job with an employer who will train them. Operators will HAVE to have DCPC trained drivers, otherwise on 10th September 2014 they can no longer do business.

For self-employed drivers DCPC does seem to be an extra cost they could do without, albeit a small one.

This^ 100% this.

I said this about the cost on either this or another thread recently. The cost is so minimal as to be a non issue when you look at the outlay to reward factor, a couple of pence per day to be able to keep doing an easy job that pays good money for not doing very much. The alternative is not to lash out the tuppence a day and leave the industry to do a job you might not want to do, that you have to work harder doing and possibly will not pay as much. Hardly a ‘tax on our jobs’ or a ‘travesty’.

truckerjon · 20 June 2011 16:59

When you look at it from a percentage figure, i agree it looks a small price to pay, however why pay for something that is of no value? What percentage is the cost to the average earnings for an agency driver who has to spend 2,3,4 or 5 days every year on “induction” training free of charge? what will be the cost in 5 years time when your boss decides that he will not pay for the next round of CPC courses for you? what will be the cost when your boss doesn’t want to pay for your licence renewal and medical because he sees a way of saving a few bob? what will be the cost when the DSA decide to double the upload fee for the CPC? what will be the cost when the training companies try to make extra profit because they know we have to do this training? What will be the cost when your boss asks you to contribute toowards the cost of your uniform? How soon will it be before we have to pay to work?
There is a point where we have to stand up and be counted. Even just 5 years ago, the idea that you could be asked to work for free on a “training” course, and pay for it would have been laughed at by 99% of drivers, and yet here we are exactly that is happening.

moomooland · 20 June 2011 17:17

truckerjon:
When you look at it from a percentage figure, i agree it looks a small price to pay, however why pay for something that is of no value? What percentage is the cost to the average earnings for an agency driver who has to spend 2,3,4 or 5 days every year on “induction” training free of charge? what will be the cost in 5 years time when your boss decides that he will not pay for the next round of CPC courses for you? what will be the cost when your boss doesn’t want to pay for your licence renewal and medical because he sees a way of saving a few bob? what will be the cost when the DSA decide to double the upload fee for the CPC? what will be the cost when the training companies try to make extra profit because they know we have to do this training? What will be the cost when your boss asks you to contribute toowards the cost of your uniform? How soon will it be before we have to pay to work?
There is a point where we have to stand up and be counted. Even just 5 years ago, the idea that you could be asked to work for free on a “training” course, and pay for it would have been laughed at by 99% of drivers, and yet here we are exactly that is happening.

Good post truckerjon

henrys_cat · 20 June 2011 17:49

truckerjon:
When you look at it from a percentage figure, i agree it looks a small price to pay, however why pay for something that is of no value? What percentage is the cost to the average earnings for an agency driver who has to spend 2,3,4 or 5 days every year on “induction” training free of charge? what will be the cost in 5 years time when your boss decides that he will not pay for the next round of CPC courses for you? what will be the cost when your boss doesn’t want to pay for your licence renewal and medical because he sees a way of saving a few bob? what will be the cost when the DSA decide to double the upload fee for the CPC? what will be the cost when the training companies try to make extra profit because they know we have to do this training? What will be the cost when your boss asks you to contribute toowards the cost of your uniform? How soon will it be before we have to pay to work?
There is a point where we have to stand up and be counted. Even just 5 years ago, the idea that you could be asked to work for free on a “training” course, and pay for it would have been laughed at by 99% of drivers, and yet here we are exactly that is happening.

Depends on the firm you work for Jon. Many firms won’t pay for this already.

The main problem I see with the campaign is the mixed messages that are coming across. One day your aiming to get it scrapped, the next your looking at alternatives, then your back to trying to scrap it. To be taken seriously you need a single aim.

If that aim is trying to get it scrapped, then your definatly on a hiding to nothing. Too many big comapnies have invested alot to let it get scrapped, also its from europe so our lot implement it to the letter.

The other site has come up with a good starting point for an alternative, it still needs alot of work, as has been admitted over there, but I feel that is the way to proceed.

coffeeholic · 20 June 2011 19:10

truckerjon:
When you look at it from a percentage figure, i agree it looks a small price to pay, however why pay for something that is of no value?

It does have value. The couple of pence a day gets me a little plastic card that enables me to continue to do a job I like, that doesn’t require much effort and pays decent money that I am happy with because it pays all my bills and leaves money over for fun stuff.

The alternative, if I wasn’t getting it paid for by the company, is not spend the couple of pence a day and not be able to continue to do this job. That would mean finding another job that I might not like, would more than likely require me to work harder and maybe not pay as much so less fun stuff money. Even if it paid the same it would mean more work for the same money. That means it certainly has a value to me.

james_bateman · 21 June 2011 08:59