Drivers DCPC.. is it worth the time and money?

[waynedl]

Long distance clara:

Wheel Nut:

Long distance clara:

moomooland:
Having driven an HGV Class 1 for the last 35 years can someone please explain why on earth i need 5 days training to tell my how to do what i have been doing for 35 years!!!

Because you have been driving for the past 35 years.
Be honest how many days training have you been given with regards to driving in the last 35 years? you maybe an exception to the rule but most drivers pass there test and then drive and that is it no further training at all.

I am a DCPC instructor and when it first come out i thought it was a joke, however since teaching it for the last 2 years i can say it is probably the most satisfying course i have ever taught. Not once has a driver ever left my classroom and has said that was crap i knew all that.

There are far 2 many cowboys out there doing the bear minimum just to tick a box for the drivers and coin the cash in. i also agree there should be a formal test at the end of the day and it should be a pass fail but to be honest if that come in drivers would moan about that.

If the instructor is clever he should be able to keep the class interested and learning all day long. Again not blowing my own trumpet but in 2 years I have only had 1 proper pain in the backside and I stopped that within 20 mins.

This will never go away as it has gone to far down the road, remember buses have been doing this since Sept 2008 and a lot of money has been spent by all.

The comment about first aid someone made I agree with but remember the rules and regs of the road for new drivers would have been covered throughout training and theory tests. so rather than bore them as long as it is job specific then you can pretty much accredit whatever you want to gain your hours.

It is also a clever way of ensuring Transport managers get regular updates as well, as when you do a management CPC then there is no requirement to go back and up date your skills.

Welcome to Trucknet LD Clara. Can I ask you about your experience in the industry, before DCPC and JAUPT?

If you think you hate DCPC try being me I have to sit on a course to get mine even though I teach it. I agree the scheme is not great and I would love them to bring in testing.

This is 1 question I was going to ask, if you teach the course do you have to sit it, thanks for answering that for me. Saves me becoming a trainer

Long distance clara:
In my experience the older generation are more apposed of this than younger drivers as the education system you had was different to today’s. A person under the age of around 35 ish would have been bought up with rules and regs changes all through their school and working life, so this is just something else they have to do.

I’m 34 and I’ve sat the dCPC course, 35hrs (well 40 actually because it was a gvt funded Merc approved training course) through 1 and 7hrs through another company / trainer, and I thought both were a flawed waste of my time and money.

Long distance clara:
People like yourself actually annoy me to be honest, you have 35 years experience and are digging out this scheme and some are digging out the instructors. With all this experience why are you not teaching? All your valuable experience is going to retire and die with you, why are you not sharing it?

He IS, on here. If people want to learn, they can ask / google / put the effort in.
When I passed my C+E, 1st job I did was a trunk to Bellshill, I was given the keys to a Renault Premium, given my paperwork with a trailer / bay number and told ‘don’t forget to raise the suspension on the trailer before you pull off’… Erm, how?? I asked, this wasn’t in any training I’d taken, so I asked.

---

1st 7hrs dCPC I did was ‘driving hours’, and he was teaching a class of 10 or so, and all the time of talking of driving hours limits and minimum daily rest, he never once pointed out (which has been pointed out clearly on here MANY times) that your working time AND your daily rest must be taken within 24hrs of your start time - ie, start at 6am and finish at 7.01pm means you’ve reduced your daily rest.
I had to point this out as I felt a duty that the people on this course should actually know, and then I had to explain it in ‘lamens terms’ because the instructor couldn’t and the class just didn’t understand.
So, in that case I agree that some training was obviously needed for the class, but wasn’t for me, and it wasn’t given to the class (or wouldn’t have been had I not been there), yet they’d have got their ‘hours in’.

Other dCPC course, talk of split daily rest, he asked if anyone had used this, I’d just come off containers so obviously it was a yes, he asked me to explain what I thought was req’d which I did (minimum 3hr 1st rest, minimum 9hr 2nd rest all taken within the 24hr period = a not reduced daily rest) and he said I’d missed something out, that I’d need to take a minimum of a 12hr rest within 24hrs of that■■?
I have this in writing! I argued with him and explained that he’s mistaken and it must be a typo and that the 3+9 WAS the 12.
This was with a class of 12 people, most of who didn’t want me there because it made the course longer and they just wanted their ‘hours in’.

edit
forgot to add the bit about a drivers digital tacho card only holding 28days info. I had to take a printout in with me to prove they went back further, thought 2007 was good enough, then he said that was stored in the truck, I said that’s a smart truck then, I printed that out of a mates skip truck that I’ve never driven, and that was done in an 07 Iveco that I only drove once.

Conclusion… Training for those that NEED IT, relevent training for the rest, ie I’d not have argued at getting my adr or HIAB or FLT, but these weren’t on the funding list, so I took what I could get for free.

[waynedl]

Henrys cat:

truckerjon:
I believe that, for new drivers an initial DCPC of say 14 hours on theory, such as Drivers hours and WTD, first aid prior to the practical test, followed by 21 hours of supervised practical training within the first year of holding a licence, would be far more benificial. This might stop many of the “stupid” questions asked on truck forums For “experienced” drivers, on the job training, company inductions and training and a 14 hour refresher on laws every 5 years should be enough. . **Also, why shouldn’t drivers with x amount of years driving be exempt from the DCPC unless they are involved in a road traffic violation, when they must attend a refresher course.**There is a thread on here about 2 days “free” inductions for agency drivers, where they are expected to train for 2 days with no pay. I am also against this because some companies take advantage of the drivers, however, if this could be counted towards the DCPC, maybe it would lessen the blowThe training is out there already. we don’t need a quango set up to make us ay for what is generally already available.

Fully agree with your points apart from some of the one I highlighted.

I feel that everyone, regardless of experience or number of years in the industry, should attend regular refresher courses on hours laws and new legislation. Some drivers I have met, who have more experience than I have at 12 yrs, have no idea on the recent hours changes or the wtd. Just because you’ve done the job for 20,30,40 yrs it doesn’t mean you know it all, or are upto date on the current hours situation.

That’s fine then, a compulsory refresher course WHEN THE HOURS RULES CHANGE!!

If they’re the same, why the need to do a course? And what about the other 30hrs or so?

[waynedl]

Coffeeholic:

Biscuits:
Just to put the time and expense of DCPC into perspective;

For a driver working 50 hours a week, 48 weeks a year the 35 hours over 5 years will take 0.29% of his time.

For a driver earning £20,000 net pa, paying for DCPC himself at £70 per 7 hour session, it will cost 0.35% of his income.

For a self-employed driver losing £100 profit per day it will cost him 0.85% of his income (which includes the above).

For drivers whose boss is paying them to sit and do DCPC then this whole thing is a non-issue, unless they have some strange aversion to sitting in a room rather than a cab for one day a year. If they’re convinced they have nothing to learn they can sit and read a paper.

For drivers whose employer isn’t paying then you have a small price to pay for doing your chosen profession, plus you might learn something new. Although if your boss isn’t paying then he’s a blithering idiot. All operators have to make a legal undertaking that their drivers are properly qualified. Drivers can at least look for a new job with an employer who will train them. Operators will HAVE to have DCPC trained drivers, otherwise on 10th September 2014 they can no longer do business.

For self-employed drivers DCPC does seem to be an extra cost they could do without, albeit a small one.

This^ 100% this.

I said this about the cost on either this or another thread recently. The cost is so minimal as to be a non issue when you look at the outlay to reward factor, a couple of pence per day to be able to keep doing an easy job that pays good money for not doing very much. The alternative is not to lash out the tuppence a day and leave the industry to do a job you might not want to do, that you have to work harder doing and possibly will not pay as much. Hardly a ‘tax on our jobs’ or a ‘travesty’.

Actually it IS a tax on our jobs, whether it be a penny, or tuppence per day, it’s still a tax.

[tommy_t]

waynedl:

tommy t:
Today i was talking with a trainer who does the dcpc along with other stuff such as the ADR and he told me that there is no government funding available for unemployed drivers for the ADR & DCPC

Well, he’s wrong.

I got my dCPC paid for by the gvt when I had 3 weeks out of work, didn’t even have to wait the 3 months like other ‘training courses’.

I’d have liked my ADR though, but beggars and choosers.

I would say that is dependant on where in the country you live,other than funding by private company’s such as Mercedes Benz who have provided funding (the pot is now empty) as the government will not fund the DCPC because the way they class it, and i would say that if any government funding is available for the ADR then they would probably expect confirmation from an employer that they would employ you if you passed the exams associated with the ADR , otherwise it will be a no no,

[waynedl]

tommy t:

waynedl:

tommy t:
Today i was talking with a trainer who does the dcpc along with other stuff such as the ADR and he told me that there is no government funding available for unemployed drivers for the ADR & DCPC

Well, he’s wrong.

I got my dCPC paid for by the gvt when I had 3 weeks out of work, didn’t even have to wait the 3 months like other ‘training courses’.

I’d have liked my ADR though, but beggars and choosers.

I would say that is dependant on where in the country you live,other than funding by private company’s such as Mercedes Benz who have provided funding (the pot is now empty) as the government will not fund the DCPC because the way they class it, and i would say that if any government funding is available for the ADR then they would probably expect confirmation from an employer that they would employ you if you passed the exams associated with the ADR , otherwise it will be a no no,

Merc didn’t fund it, they just did a course that’s the same all over, the funding was by the gvt, hence it was 40hrs instead of 35… Has to be 40hrs to be classed as full time education or some bull like that.

I’m back out of work again now, the agency work I was doing has dried up this week, only 1 day so far, so I’ll be back bugging them to try and get HIAB or ADR or anything else I can get, but also sign onto more agencies because money is worth more than paper

[mavrick]

Good post trucker john, sadly too many drivers are prepared to sit in the classroom like good little boys and girls and have their little bit of intelligenced insulted. I have watched and read and heard drivers saying what a load of crap it is, yet they still sat there and paid up, I have to laugh when they say i told the trainer he was wrong and proved it, did you get your money back, NO, If i hear another driver tell me they are a professional i swear i will swing for them. what sort of professional qualification allows you to turn up fall asleep and still pass■■?
I think a lot of drivers need to remove the rose coloured specs and see the job for what it is.
If you were to write out a job description for this industry and look at it in the cold light of day you would not touch it with a barge pole. and now you are paying a tax on your right to work, get a life. where is your self respect?
I can not believe drivers are so divided they are taking this without a fight. If this goes through in its present form every driver who accepts it will have no respect from anyone.
I can’t understand why so many employers are just going along with it, ask them for a pay rise and see if they resist. It seems the british truck driver is well and truly beaten. but hey you might get a new truck.

[biscuits]

waynedl:
Actually it IS a tax on our jobs, whether it be a penny, or tuppence per day, it’s still a tax.

If HM gov wanted to tax HGV/PCV drivers specifically they would just make the vocational license renewable every 5 years, for a suitable fee.

[wheel_nut]

waynedl:
That’s fine then, a compulsory refresher course WHEN THE HOURS RULES CHANGE!!

If they’re the same, why the need to do a course? And what about the other 30hrs or so?

The problem with that is since the last change on 11th April 2007, not many people know they even changed or to what extent. However it should be the companies instructing us about the hours regulations, not us instructing them. In the early days, the company would have covered the cost, but since drivers started paying for their own parking, boots, hard hats, hiviz vests and gloves, not to mention tacho rolls, drivers paying for the DCPC was a natural progression.

[simon]

Biscuits:

waynedl:
Actually it IS a tax on our jobs, whether it be a penny, or tuppence per day, it’s still a tax.

If HM gov wanted to tax HGV/PCV drivers specifically they would just make the vocational license renewable every 5 years, for a suitable fee.

They just did (well it started a couple of years ago). They decided to call it the Drivers CPC, instead of calling it a tax, that’s all.
It is also a method for getting people out of the dole queue, by calling them DCPC trainers instead of dole scroungers

[biscuits]

Simon:

Biscuits:

waynedl:
Actually it IS a tax on our jobs, whether it be a penny, or tuppence per day, it’s still a tax.

If HM gov wanted to tax HGV/PCV drivers specifically they would just make the vocational license renewable every 5 years, for a suitable fee.

They just did (well it started a couple of years ago). They decided to call it the Drivers CPC, instead of calling it a tax, that’s all.
It is also a method for getting people out of the dole queue, by calling them DCPC trainers instead of dole scroungers

My point is that if the idea is to raise tax revenue, then the DCPC is a pretty poor way of doing it.

[biscuits]

I can’t understand why all the mega experience, driving 20+ years, drivers aren’t campaigning to have more DCPC type stuff. If you do know it all already then the more, and harder to obtain, certificates there are the better. It leverages your greatest asset; your experience. Campaign for compulsory DCPC testing (and SAFED, and ADR etc etc etc), annually, because you’ll ■■■■ through it, and it will drive the less able out of your job market.

At the moment becoming a truck driver isn’t rocket science. Make it rocket science! Rocket scientists get paid a helluva lot more than truck drivers!

[fastrantiger]

Biscuits:
If HM gov wanted to tax HGV/PCV drivers specifically they would just make the vocational license renewable every 5 years, for a suitable fee.

It is renewable every 5 years, has been for years (unless you happen to be under 45).

As for the DCPC, much has been quoted about the cost of the DCPC as a percentage against earnings. True it’s not much and for anyone on a decent salary can afford it, albeit under protest but at least it keeps you in a job.

So for those of us not in a job and with no DCPC, where does that leave us? There was talk of providing the modules to unemployed drivers to help get them back into work, thats no longer the case

Tiger.

[axletramp]

Fastrantiger:

Biscuits:
If HM gov wanted to tax HGV/PCV drivers specifically they would just make the vocational license renewable every 5 years, for a suitable fee.

It is renewable every 5 years, has been for years (unless you happen to be under 45).

As for the DCPC, much has been quoted about the cost of the DCPC as a percentage against earnings. True it’s not much and for anyone on a decent salary can afford it, albeit under protest but at least it keeps you in a job.

So for those of us not in a job and with no DCPC, where does that leave us? There was talk of providing the modules to unemployed drivers to help get them back into work, thats no longer the case

Tiger.

Actually, at one time the HGV licence had to be renewed (and paid for) every 3 years.
And the licence was a little booklet and not a piece of plastic.

[happy_keith]

mavrick:
‘…It seems the British truck driver is well and truly beaten…’

Meanwhile, the last time a huge majority of motorists read a Highway Code was before they scraped through a driving test a million years ago.

It seems that a continual succession of supposedly British, pro-EU, foreign ■■■■- licking Governments can’t see the wood for the trees from their isolated ivory towers.

[wheel_nut]

Biscuits:
I can’t understand why all the mega experience, driving 20+ years, drivers aren’t campaigning to have more DCPC type stuff. If you do know it all already then the more, and harder to obtain, certificates there are the better. It leverages your greatest asset; your experience. Campaign for compulsory DCPC testing (and SAFED, and ADR etc etc etc), annually, because you’ll ■■■■ through it, and it will drive the less able out of your job market.

At the moment becoming a truck driver isn’t rocket science. Make it rocket science! Rocket scientists get paid a helluva lot more than truck drivers!

You are correct about truck driving, any silly bugger can pass a test, it isn’t difficult, and as a driver of 20 years plus, neither am I against training, I am against poor or inaccurate training, and I am also against the driver paying for this inaccurate unmarked tosh

[dieseldave]

axletramp:
Actually, at one time the HGV licence had to be renewed (and paid for) every 3 years.
And the licence was a little booklet and not a piece of plastic.

I remember those days too.

You paid your renewal fee, then the TC sent you a sticker (the glue tasted awful ) that you stuck straight on the top of the last one.

[waynedl]

Wheel Nut:

waynedl:
That’s fine then, a compulsory refresher course WHEN THE HOURS RULES CHANGE!!

If they’re the same, why the need to do a course? And what about the other 30hrs or so?

The problem with that is since the last change on 11th April 2007, not many people know they even changed or to what extent. However it should be the companies instructing us about the hours regulations, not us instructing them. In the early days, the company would have covered the cost, but since drivers started paying for their own parking, boots, hard hats, hiviz vests and gloves, not to mention tacho rolls, drivers paying for the DCPC was a natural progression.

I buy my own boots / steel toe capped trainers, but also get ■■■■ boots supplied off companies, I don’t wear their ■■■■ boots, hence I buy my own better ones. Everything else is paid for by the company, if they don’t pay for parking, then they better hope that the ■■■■■■ don’t nick the fuel / goods, because I won’t stop them and they’ll be paying me to stop for a shower at a services before I go park up anyway, 1/2 hrs overtime isn’t usually that much cheaper than parking costs.
Hard hats, hi vis and gloves are all supplied by every company I’ve ever worked for. Usually again ■■■■■■ ones that you wouldn’t want to wear, but they’re there.
and tacho rolls, I carry my own spares, but if a company doesn’t supply any, then the truck is returned with no tacho roll in, I’ll use 1 of my own to keep me legal on the road, but it isn’t staying in the truck after that.

[moomooland]

The title of this thread is
“Drivers DCPC… is it worth the time and money?”
In a word “NO”

[dessy]

moomooland:
The title of this thread is
“Drivers DCPC… is it worth the time and money?”
In a word “NO”

+1