Was it on here that i read about the daily break of 3 x 15 mins being scrapped 
And you are now only allowed either 15 + 30 or a straight 45.Please if it was could the person put a site where he/she got this info from as i can’t find it on the vosa site.It’s to settle an argument at work 
It is a proposal under the Drivers’ Hours Regs which are likely to come into force in the near future. I can’t remember the details but essentially, the 15 minute break will disappear.
It is proposed to become law from March / April next year along with other changes such as abolishing the 24hr rest away from base, minimum 12 hr rest reduceable to 9 hrs with no compensation having to be repaid but max of 3 reduceable periods in any one week.
Split shift will also be abolished as well, I’ll see if I can dig out the full proposals but my telewest is down at the moment so i’m relying on the trusty lap top and mobile connection 
Krankee:
It is a proposal under the Drivers’ Hours Regs which are likely to come into force in the near future. I can’t remember the details but essentially, the 15 minute break will disappear.
15 minutes will be Ok, it’s the 3x15 minute split break that will disappear, you still will be able to split breaks but only as 15+30
There is also a requirement to take a full 45 hour rest every 2nd week .
Davey Driver:
Split shift will also be abolished as well(
It is not being abolished, only changed slightly. At the moment, as you know, you can split the daily rest into three periods, the shortest at least one hour and the last one of at least 8 hours. This is changing to splitting it into only two periods, one of at least three hours and one of at least nine.
As has been said the ability to split the 45 minute break into three 15 minute periods is going and it will only be able to split it into two, the first of 15 minutes and the next of 30. This is to remove the anomaly where you can drive almost nine hours with only a 15 minute break under the current rules.
Other changes include clarifying the 56 hour weekly driving limit. Due to the ambiguous wording of the current rules it is theoretically possible to drive 74 hours a week, unlikely but possible.
As has been said already, the rules are changing next year, the exact date isn’t known yet as it will be 12 months after the publication of the ‘new rules’ in the Official Journal (of the European Community). Most of the regs were decided last December at a meeting held in Brussels, they are currently being translated into the official languages of the EC, before publication. This is only provisional but it seems we will get;
- if you have a 15 minute break from driving then your next break must be 30 minutes. The 4.5 hous rule still stays.
- daily rest is normally 11 hours, can be reduced to 9 hrs upto 3 times per week, no compensation required.
- weekly rest can be reduced to 24 hours but the following weekly rest must be 45 hrs. There seems to be an argument about whether you have to compensate for a reduced weekly rest or not.
- split daily rest has to be one period of at least 3 hours followed by a period of at least none hours.
- a limit of 56 hrs driving in any week in addition to the 90 hrs in a fortnight.
- many of the exemptions are being moved from European level to national level, so some journies that are currently exempt will not be in the future.
- extraterritoriality; offences committed in one country can be prosecuted in another.
At the moment there isn’t a website with all the info on as it hasn’t been agreed yet. If I can find one I’ll put a link on here.
Coffeeholic:
This is to remove the anomaly where you can drive almost nine hours with only a 15 minute break under the current rules.
so it will be 30 minutes instead of 15 in almost 9 hours 
what happened to the 30 minutes after every 3 hours driving? i read that one somewhere ages ago. that may have been something to do with the WTD. i was over a year ago when i read about that proposal
Due to the ambiguous wording of the current rules it is theoretically possible to drive 74 hours a week, unlikely but possible.
Not one I have heard of Neil, how does that work ■■ Obviously my old gaffer never heard of it either
scanny77:
Coffeeholic:
This is to remove the anomaly where you can drive almost nine hours with only a 15 minute break under the current rules.so it will be 30 minutes instead of 15 in almost 9 hours
Possibly, but nothing is finalised yet so it could still change.
scanny77:
what happened to the 30 minutes after every 3 hours driving? i read that one somewhere ages ago. that may have been something to do with the WTD. i was over a year ago when i read about that proposal
One of the proposals that was rejected it seems.
scab-in-a-cab:
Due to the ambiguous wording of the current rules it is theoretically possible to drive 74 hours a week, unlikely but possible.
Not one I have heard of Neil, how does that work ■■ Obviously my old gaffer never heard of it either
In the fixed week beginning at 00:00 Monday and ending at 00:00 Sunday you could, by driving the maximum number of hours and taking the minimum breaks/rest periods and a 24 hour away from home weekly rest, squeeze 74 hours driving in.
i.e. begin at 00:00 Monday drive 10 hours with two 45 minute breaks, 9 hours rest. Drive 10 hours with breaks, 9 hours off. Drive 9 hours with one 45 minute break, 9 off. Drive 9 then 11 off. Drive 9 then 11 off, Drive 9 then 24 hour weekly rest. Drive 9, 11 off repeating until 00:00 Sunday.
You could only do two 10 hour driving shifts and three daily rest reductions to 9 hours in that period because they are limited to 2 and 3 respectively in the fixed week.
As I said it would be unlikely but the way the current regulations are worded it would be legal. The current rules only define a fortnightly limit of 90 hours, there is no weekly limit defined which is why they are introducing the 56 hour weekly limit in the new regulations, 56 hour effectively being the maximum hours possible in six driving shifts in a fixed week, 2 x 10 and 4 x 9.
People make the mistake of assuming a weekly limit of 56 hours currently working on the basis of six shifts then weekly rest but with a reduced weekly rest you can do more than six shifts in the 7 day fixed week, and work more than six consecutive days, I am about to set off to ship out and it is currently my tenth consecutive day, and I will do 12 consecutive days before a weekly rest period this week. In fact if I start at 22:00 on Sunday night when driving restrictions are lifted it could well be more than 12. 
If you work the rules to the maximum permitted you can get a lot done with zero reason to bend or break them.
its all double dutch to me…how can you have a 56 hour driving rule a week…and 90 hours a fortnight…then how comes the WTD quotes 48 hours as your working week…(albeit over a 17 week period)
74 hours is not unusual …as my average is approx 80 +…averaging 3 x 16 hour days and 2 x 15 hour days…although not everyday …and not every week…but on average…and this is over a 5 day week…having 9 hours rest after a 15 hour day …and an 11 hour rest after the 16 hr day…
QUESTION…
what is the minimum allowed break after a 16 hour day (taking into account you cant do a 16 without a 4 hour daily break)
QUESTION 2
How many days a week can you work 15 hours.( .i was told there is no restriction)
Although it seems my work is long and tedious…a lot of the time is spent waiting at ferry ports and on the ferries…
QUESTION ONE - The rule basically says that:
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You can split your shift into up to 3 parts.
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Each part must be at least an hour.
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the last part must be at least 8 hours.
In practice, you end up with a maximum of 12 hours “on” and a minimum of 12 hours “off”.
So if you spend 2 hours loading at one place on rest (eg. box work where you genuinely are on rest), then another 2 hours reloading somewhere else on rest then you may extend your overall spreadover to 16 hours and take 8 hours off at night. The maths works out like this:
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Overall spread of 16 hours.
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2 hours rest + 2 hours rest + 8 hours rest = 12 hours “off”. So that works.
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24 hours in a day minus 12 hours rest = 12 hours “on”. So that works too.
Because you’re splitting your rest rather than reducing it, there’s no compensation to make up. You can do this all week totally legally.
Once you get in the habit of thinking like this, you can take it a stage further in two ways:
[1] Each part of your first 2 bits of break must be at least one hour, but they don’t have to be whole hours. So you can have an hour and a half at one place and 2 and a half at another yet still be able to take 8 at night and a 16 hour spread…Or you could have an hour and a quarter at one and 2 and 3/4 at another. Same thing…Or 2 hours 20 minutes then 1 hour 40 minutes.
In that last example, the maths goes like this:
- 2 hours 20 + 1 hour 40 + 8 hours = 12 hours “off”
- 24 hours minus 12 hours “off” gives 12 hours “on”
- Therefore you may go to 16 hours spread and take 8 hours off.
[2] You don’t have to go to a full 16 hours, in order to split a shift.
Example - . Start at 6am. Have an hour off in the morning then another 2 hours off in the afternoon. Maths:
- 1 hour “off” + 2 hours “off” = 3 hours.
- To split the shift you need 12 hours “off”, so you need 9 at night.
- 24 hours minus the 9 you need above gives a 15 hours potential spreadover, without needing compensation (because you split your rest rather than reducing it. )
You can do the same to “gain” yourself an extra 14 hours shift…you just need 2 hours (or 2x1 hour) during the day and 10 at night. This one very good reason why people like me who use this system a lot (mileage paid box driver 
) will always try and take a full hour’s break rather than 45 minutes…it can be used towards splitting a shift and legally “buying” time.
It looks appallingly complicated written down, but is actually very simple in practice. A friend of mine went o/o and asked me how to do it. I told him to start off just counting whole hours, then when he got his head 'round that he could satrt playing with the little bits. After years of “throwing away” time, he’s now a very happy, fully converted, significantly richer “split-shift devotee”.
Just remember 12 “on” 12 “off” and the 3 basic rules at the top and you won’t go far wrong.
QUESTION TWO - No, you cannot reduce more than 3 rest periods/ go to 15 hours more than 3 times in a week. Fact. Anyone that tells you otherwise is woefully misinformed.
There are, however, two things worth noting here, one in your favour and one against.
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On the minus side, as soon as you go over 13 hours spread or take less than an 11 hour rest, you have used up one of the three permitted reductions. This is because everything is counted from when you put your card in to 24 hours later - therefore 24 minus 13 and a half is 10 and a half, which is a reduced break.
It also doesn’t matter if you do 15 hours and then take another 15 off. Because 24 hours minus 15 equals 9 (see above) it still counts as a reduced break. crap, eh?
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The good news goes back to Question One. If you can split all your shifts you can do 15 hour spreads all week long. This is bacsue when you split a shift you aren’t reducing a rest - you’re just taking it in a few parts.
Hope that helps!!! 
truckyboy:
its all double dutch to me…how can you have a 56 hour driving rule a week…
That’s the point trucky, there isn’t a 56 hour a week driving rule at the moment.
truckyboy:
and 90 hours a fortnight…
However many hours you drive in week one you can only do the difference between that and 90 in week two, i.e. drive 56 hours in week one only allows you to do 34 in week two,
truckyboy:
then how comes the WTD quotes 48 hours as your working week…(albeit over a 17 week period)
That is 48 working hours, not just driving. The 48 hours for the WTD is driving and other work, loading, unloading fuelling etc.
truckyboy:
74 hours is not unusual …as my average is approx 80+
Your 80+ is all your hours, driving working, breaks, the example above was 74 hours DRIVING.
truckyboy:
and an 11 hour rest after the 16 hr day…
You cannot, by definition, take an 11 hour rest after finishing work 16 hour after you started. Doesn’t matter how many hours you park for it will only count as 8 hours to go with the 4 you take earlier in the day, in 1 or 2 periods of not less than 1 hour.
truckyboy:
QUESTION…
what is the minimum allowed break after a 16 hour day (taking into account you cant do a 16 without a 4 hour daily break)
Presuming you did the full 16 hour ‘spread’ the only break possible is 8 hours to go with the 4 you will have taken earlier,
truckyboy:
QUESTION 2
How many days a week can you work 15 hours.( .i was told there is no restriction)
Three, unless you are working a split rest every day. If you toook a three hour rest, in 1 or 2 periods, during the day you could do a 15 ‘spread’ by taking 9 hours rest at the end of the 15 hours.
Note that on any day you split the rest you are not actually working 16, or however many hours, because you will have had to have taken a long rest during the shift.
you can do more than six shifts in the 7 day fixed week,
and work more than six consecutive days,
Yes, I can see how it can be done now. Not having ever taken a 24 rest period, I would never have been able to take advantage of this.
I am about to set off to ship out and it is currently my tenth consecutive day, and I will do 12 consecutive days before a weekly rest period this week.
Isn’t a 24 counted as a weekly rest Neil ■■
If it is a weekly rest period, then in effect you are not doing 12+ consecutive days work, although you may well have used the the vehicle on each of the 12 days
The only way I can see you consider it to be 12 consecutive days is if you are counting running after midnight just before your 24 started & then running again before midnight after it ends.
For example: Finish 3am on a Monday, take 24 hours & drive again from 3am Tuesday.
i read somewhere they will all Lorries doublemanned,or by Nationaljob’s with Shiftwork to avoid Lorries just run by one Driver/Vehicle to bring that many Jobless People behind the Wheel,as Industry will move more and more in Lowpay-Countries
scab-in-a-cab:
you can do more than six shifts in the 7 day fixed week,
and work more than six consecutive days,Yes, I can see how it can be done now. Not having ever taken a 24 rest period, I would never have been able to take advantage of this.
Even taking a 36 hour, and possibly 45 hour, weekly rest it would still be possible to drive more than the 56 hours, which is why they are defining the weekly limit in the new regulations.
scab-in-a-cab:
I am about to set off to ship out and it is currently my tenth consecutive day, and I will do 12 consecutive days before a weekly rest period this week.
Isn’t a 24 counted as a weekly rest Neil ■■
Yes, taken away from home it is a weekly rest period, they other 21 hours need to be compensated for by the end of week 4, the third week following the reduction.
scab-in-a-cab:
If it is a weekly rest period, then in effect you are not doing 12+ consecutive days work, although you may well have used the the vehicle on each of the 12 days
If you use the vehicle on each of 12 days then that would be 12 consecutive days in my book.
scab-in-a-cab:
The only way I can see you consider it to be 12 consecutive days is if you are counting running after midnight just before your 24 started & then running again before midnight after it ends.For example: Finish 3am on a Monday, take 24 hours & drive again from 3am Tuesday.
That’s one way, and although you have had a legal weekly rest you are still working on both Monday and Tuesday, which are consecutive days. You could also do a shift on say a Monday that starts at 03:00 and finishes at 15:00, take 24 hours off and begin a shift again at 15:00 Tuesday for example. Again consecutive days and working more than a couple of hours on each
I was making the point that although people often argue that you cannot work on more than six consecutive days, you in fact can. My record is 22 days before taking a very long weekly rest, about five days, to compensate for all the 24 hour weekly rests. The new regulations will also put a stop to this, with the requirement to take a full 45 hour weekly rest in any two weeks.
Go on Amazon and buy the third edition of ‘The Pocket guide to LGV drivers hours& tacho law’(David Lowe) it cost me £12 but gives you all the latest and changes that are coming next year.
I am about to set off to ship out and it is currently my tenth consecutive day, and I will do 12 consecutive days before a weekly rest period this week.
Isn’t a 24 counted as a weekly rest Neil ■■
Yes, taken away from home it is a weekly rest period,
My point was simply that you have not worked 12 consecutive days before a rest period. You have had to take a weekly rest, albeit a reduce one of 24 hours.
I was making the point that although people often argue that you cannot work on more than six consecutive days, you in fact can
This i agree with & can see what you are saying, but it needs to be punctuated with a weekly rest period of some description. Even a 24 is considered weekly rest.
scab-in-a-cab:
I am about to set off to ship out and it is currently my tenth consecutive day, and I will do 12 consecutive days before a weekly rest period this week.
Isn’t a 24 counted as a weekly rest Neil ■■
Yes, taken away from home it is a weekly rest period,
My point was simply that you have not worked 12 consecutive days before a rest period. You have had to take a weekly rest, albeit a reduce one of 24 hours.
My fault for a poor choice of words in explaining it, I didn’t mean to imply that I had worked 12 days without a weekly rest, just that I had worked on each of the last 12 days.
scab-in-a-cab:
I was making the point that although people often argue that you cannot work on more than six consecutive days, you in fact can
This i agree with & can see what you are saying, but it needs to be punctuated with a weekly rest period of some description. Even a 24 is considered weekly rest.
Yes, which is what I meant although I didn’t convey it very well. 