Evening all,
I passed my cat c back in Jan of this year, i had a close escape, i rang 1 of the companies in the papers, promising top class truck to learn in, garanteed pass and a job at the end of it lmao. Just by chance i stumbles on this site, saved me a lot of trouble and money. I done a bit of research, visisted a company that was recommended, had a cuppa, saw there trucks, signed up with them.
I couldnt fault them, i had experiance on a 7 1/2 tonner, i had a few bad habits which were drummed out of me. I passed with 5 minors.
I couldnt fault my instructor, he was so reasuring when i did ■■■■ up. My only criticism was the mock test the day before my real test, i failed big time, it does put it in your head that you are a failure, the nerves set in big time.
But yes i was very happy with my training so much so that as soon as i have enough money i wil be booking my c+e with the same company. That is when i can find a job to get the money, catch 22, just like i cant get a job cause i dont have the experiance…o thats another thread.
Cheers guys
johnny boy:
My only criticism was the mock test the day before my real test, i failed big time, it does put it in your head that you are a failure, the nerves set in big time
This is not the only trainee that has said this.
ROG:
johnny boy:
My only criticism was the mock test the day before my real test, i failed big time, it does put it in your head that you are a failure, the nerves set in big timeThis is not the only trainee that has said this.
Interestingly (maybe), I stopped doing mock tests about 3 years ago, and since then my pass rates have steadily improved well beyond the national average.
I could only see any value in a mock test to emphasise a trainees short comings in a particular area, and there are obviously more effective ways of doin that.
If a trainee passes a mock test then he/she can become complacent, and if they don’t, down hearted.
instructorone:
We could send a feedback form to the candidate a few weeks after the training, for them to fill in anon if they wanted.
Feedback/evaluation forms are a very valuable source of information- I personally give every trainee a evaluation form at the end of their training. It will allow any good training company to impliment any changes etc if needed. It is also good for the trainer to get good feedback-A JOB WELL DONE 
Peter Smythe:
We could send a feedback form to the candidate a few weeks after the training, for them to fill in anon if they wanted.
Good idea; will be putting that in place immediately. Thanks for that.
I am not so sure this works I have tried it both ways.
Now either we are brilliant with no room for improvement, or you really do not get the full picture from a feed back form, (I know we are good but as said the reason for this post was to improve) in fact I would go as far as to say 70% fill one in without any thought as to what it means, (this is human nature) even though we tell them to be honest any critisism is taken on board as this form helps us to improve our service.
You will get very few complaints on a feedback unless the service you give is totaly crap…then perhaps you won’t use a feedback form anyway.
johnny boy:
My only criticism was the mock test the day before my real test, i failed big time,
Mock tests…there has been more discussion in our meetings about this subject than any other…do they workor don’t they?..I believe they are a tool in the box that may be used in certain circumstances, but you must understand your candidate and give reasons for using it plus how you handle the debrief is most important, the last thing you want to do is leave the candidate feeling as johny boy did, Oh well done Johny for passing after that.
I have had a couple of good schools when I have upgraded my liecence the main points of concern to me are
1.Learning to drive an unloaded vehicle ( I did here that this might soon change) ■■?
2.no real reversing I think in the last 500,000 miles I have done an “S” REVERSE about 10 times no real blind side thro 90 degrees to get on the so so bay at an RDC !!!
But on the whole they did the job that they said they would and show me how to get my licence
Where all these schools fall down is that they don’t sell driver training as a service,they all compete on price,either 16 0r 20 hours plus test.This gives the wrong impression to pupils who see it as a guaranteed pass after a weeks intensive course.The concept ought to be that we will teach you to drive no matter what it takes.Everyone has different skill levels so to put everyone through a test after twenty hours behind the wheel is a gamble.With hindsight it would have been better for me to start training WITHOUT having a test booked and only go through to test when I was good enough.I passed on my sixth attempt and that is over £500 to the government that my training school could have had if they where more switched on.It is not just guidance behind the wheel that people need,it is professional advice on how best to proceed if things aren’t going to plan.I wanted someone other than my instructor to talk to me along the lines of “Okay this is what we will do next…when this happens we do this…I suggest this etc” Unfortunately all I got when I failed a test and asked what should I do next was “It’s up to you”.If schools took the time to explain what the learning to drive process was actually like they would be better thought of.My instructors where fine but there was no management.
Two final points,customer satisfaction surveys are a good idea and a little thing to keep customers hooked,send them a congratulations card on passing their test…give them discount on further training…If you passed C+E in a Wagon and Drag offer them a few hours familiarity training in an Artic or vice versa.Thats your best chance to keep hold of these customers.
we will teach you to drive no matter what it takes
You make a valid point. Bear with me and I’ll briefly explain why the test is generally booked before the training even starts. Firstly, the vast majority of candidates want and expect that. To start training without the test in place has it’s downside. There is nothing to say that a test will be available at the precise point that you would like it. Many trainers book their tests 10 weeks ahead, with the number of tests based on experience and guessology (is that a word?) . The tests are paid for at the time of booking so a trainer with 10 tests a week will have £10k + laid out all the time in driving test fees. The test can be cancelled but the trainer has to give 3 clear working days’ notice to avoid loosing the fee. So if you were to start a course on the Monday with test booked for Friday, the test would have to be cancelled by Monday night to save the fee. First thing Tuesday would be too late. So, to offer a service to the candidate and to try and make everyone’s training run smoothly, trainers incurr major expense and take timing gambles with test appointments. It’s a work of art!
That said, you should be able to book training working up to a test which is not pre-booked. But you would also have to accept that there may not be a test for you exactly when you would like it. We normally have a small number of candidates coming for a few hours weekly. Generally we can estimate the best time for the test and then we do our best to get close to it.
And I agree that not everyone’s the same. But it is an indisputable fact that experience has shown that the courses normally on offer will satisfy the needs of the vast majority. But an assessment should always be on offer - especially if there is the slightest doubt. Then a course should be tailored to suit the candidate. The important thing that most of us trainers do bear in mind is that the candidate is the most important factor in all this, and anything that helps has to be a good thing.
1.Learning to drive an unloaded vehicle ( I did here that this might soon change) ■■?
2.no real reversing I think in the last 500,000 miles I have done an “S” REVERSE about 10 times no real blind side thro 90 degrees to get on the so so bay at an RDC !!!
We do both the above
But on the whole they did the job that they said they would and show me how to get my licence
O yes, we do that as well
There have been one or two on this site that did their LGV training for 4 hours a week until the school and they felt that they were ready for test.
This is the way that car ‘L’ learning is generally done as well as the advanced driving training & test.
Many LGV schools struggle to do the above due to running the intensive courses which leaves little gaps for fitting in those that want to do it a bit at a time.
The greater majority of trainees do seem to manage quite well on intensive courses 
I have taken in what you said on your last post Peter but around here (unless they have changed recently) Training companies still use unloaded vehicles and only do the basic reverse, my point was driving a tractor and trailer about 12/13 tonnes and then going to 38tonnes was a real lesson and I think loaded or semi loaded should be blanket across the country not to the few like your goodselves .
I do take on board your comments but I wouldn’t want to tar all training companies with the same brush I can think of four companies including us who post on here that do not fall into this catagory, it appears that (and forgive me if I am wrong) had training where they were only interested in your money and not you.
Deathstar:
Where all these schools fall down is that they don’t sell driver training as a service,
We always sell our service as do others, the idea is that you pass 1st time and we strive for this to happen.
Deathstar:
This gives the wrong impression to pupils who see it as a guaranteed pass after a weeks intensive course.
.
We will tell you there is no such thing as a guaranteed pass, also we do not do set length courses, course length is decided on assessment one size does not fit all and we won’t just fill slots we happen to have. Everyone is an individual and should be treated as such.
Deathstar:
Everyone has different skill levels so to put everyone through a test after twenty hours behind the wheel is a gamble.
Absolutely correct thats why we would not do it.
Deathstar:
With hindsight it would have been better for me to start training WITHOUT having a test booked and only go through to test when I was good enough.
Peter has covered this in his reply, the point of an assessment is to make sure you will be ready for a test on test day.
Deathstar:
I passed on my sixth attempt and that is over £500 to the government that my training school could have had if they where more switched on.It is not just guidance behind the wheel that people need,it is professional advice on how best to proceed if things aren’t going to plan.I wanted someone other than my instructor to talk to me along the lines of “Okay this is what we will do next…when this happens we do this…I suggest this etc”
Again you are correct, if you fail twice then we need to be sorting what we can do to help, we know the trainee is above a test standard so usually it is nerves we need to work on.
Deathstar:
Unfortunately all I got when I failed a test and asked what should I do next was “It’s up to you”.
I would expect any customer to walk if shown this attitude, you have paid good money to be trained I see nothing wrong with expecting to get what you have paid for.
Deathstar:
Two final points,customer satisfaction surveys are a good idea and a little thing to keep customers hooked,send them a congratulations card on passing their test…give them discount on further training
We always send a certificate of completion for all our courses (and very posh they are too) plus a thank you and a list of offers.
Thanks for you comments deathstar they are very constructive.
PS. I am a starwars fan too lol
markgilly:
Training companies still use unloaded vehicles and only do the basic reverse, my point was driving a tractor and trailer about 12/13 tonnes and then going to 38tonnes was a real lesson and I think loaded or semi loaded should be blanket across the country not to the few like your goodselves .
I couldnt agree more unfortunately we still train with unloaded trailers due to storage, we intend to alter that within the next 12 months, but we do use 16.5 mtr artic with a tri axle trailer any one who trains with us will be able to blind side and will be proficient at reversing in real life situations before we take them to the reverse pad.
i agree all these things should be covered, but you have to remember people want to pass the test for minimum cost, no training place is going to throw all these extras in for free!
I think my training center was excellent, but the walk around check was theatrical, for example i had to touch the trailer plate to show that i looked to see if the trailer and unit were compatible, what was i looking for? Not a clue! However won’t all of this including taco be covered in the CPC?
Cynic-al:
won’t all of this including taco be covered in the CPC?
Depends whether you or your company choose a course that covers it.
Cynic-al:
what was i looking for? Not a clue! However won’t all of this including taco be covered in the CPC?
The problem is if you do not teach, tacho daily checks etc (and a lot of schools don’t) you are turning out drivers who can not do the job then you have the situation we have now no experience no job because you are not prepaired.
A daily check is done for many reasons, just two of them are
1 If you take your truck out in an unroadworthy condition both you and the operator are liable to prosecution, and as you rightly pointed out you licence is not cheap to obtain so why risk it.
2 Worst case you could have an accident and kill someone, I wouldn’t want that on my conscience for the rest of my life.
Tacho rules and drivers hours, get them wrong and again both you and the operator are at risk of prosecution.
The reason we could always gain work for our new passes (and I admit at present this is very dam near impossible) is because we do include this training in our courses.
Cynic-al:
no training place is going to throw all these extras in for free!
Actually we do, I would not let one of my vehicles on the road without a proper daily check, our trainees do it under supervision of the instructor just as in the real world check sheets are kept and defets rectified, as a trainee your lifes in that truck, (and my Instructor) my obligation is to make sure the truck is safe.
I fully understand trying to train as cheaply as possible, because it aint cheap, and its hard to save up and do the course when not on a particularly good wage but I firmly believe part of the difficulty in obtaining work when first passed is lack of training due to financial constraints.
This is nothing new I have held my class 1 for 37 years and it was the same hurdles when I passed.
At the risk of hijacking your user name, we have been part of the pilot scheme for the new CPC case scinarios and no they don’t cover what they need to, it is an exellent opportunity to improve new drivers knowledge lost.
Also a good training provider should not think his job has finished when you pass, we are always there for our customers for advice, I have even had one trainee on his first job totaly lost and we talked him through to the motorway. Map reading lessons we do not do maybe we should?
Data Academy:
Map reading lessons we do not do maybe we should?
we had that at a place, and i am a very good map reader if you do teach map reading skills the first thing to tell them is not move the map when there go round corners (like a streering wheel) i have had loads of mate who do that and end up getting us lost 
i don’t think you can put the responsibility on the trainer, what is required to do the job safely should be part of the test, after all the purpose of the test is to see if the driver is fit to do the job. For example i could do a daily check and fill in a taco by the end of my 4 x 1/2 days training and i know that a load must be ‘secure and within the weight and size restriction of the vehicle’. But real life i wasn’t taught driver hours (apart from what you learn for the theory) or how to load or secure a lorry - how can you with the variety of work available?
I honestly thought the purpose of the initial CPC was to bridge this knowledge gap - perhaps you in the know think different!
I believe my training company were very thorough - i passed both tests with only 2 minors on each with their recommended 4x 1/2 days. They also have a recruitment agency but they will not take on new drivers that have just passed through them without them undergoing further training - perhaps they don’t think the ‘get through your test’ package is enough in the real world either?
Cynic-al:
i don’t think you can put the responsibility on the trainer, what is required to do the job safely should be part of the test, after all the purpose of the test is to see if the driver is fit to do the job. For example i could do a daily check and fill in a taco by the end of my 4 x 1/2 days training and i know that a load must be ‘secure and within the weight and size restriction of the vehicle’. But real life i wasn’t taught driver hours (apart from what you learn for the theory) or how to load or secure a lorry - how can you with the variety of work available?
I agree the test should be more effective… I personally think we have a duty to our trainees to help get them in employment and give them the tools to do that the test as it stands at present is only designed to test the candidates standard of driving, we do only include basic eu drivers hours in our practical training I cover a lot more than required in our theory training.
Of course we can’t cover every type of load and seecuring method and some things will always be learnt on the job, but the basics and principals should be and to be honest because of cost is as discussed before is only skimmed over.
It sounds like you had a good training school and a good level of competance prior to starting your training.
Cynic-al:
I honestly thought the purpose of the initial CPC was to bridge this knowledge gap - perhaps you in the know think different!
I was hoping the initial driver CPC was going to go further than it has I have some strong opinions on how wide of the mark it is I will happily discuss this on the phone with you but don’t want to go into an essay on here.
Thanks for your input I appreciate it, you have made some very valid points, which brings me to one of my original questions if a training company offered the whole package would you be prepared to pay for it or would you still go for the minimum required. I Know everyones answer in the ideal world, but this is the real world
my employer paid for my training so of course the minimum to do the job, however if i asked for more as i felt that without it i would not be able to operate legally they would pay for more.
Why not offer a £■■■ for the ‘get you past your test’ package then the add on at £■■■ to teach the extras you feel a driver needs? A bit like they offer pass plus for car drivers. - Is there a certificate you could offer that agencies would accept to prove the trainee has a higher level of knowledge and therefore more employable? If there was a higher chance of employment more people would take it up.
Cynic-al:
Why not offer a £■■■ for the ‘get you past your test’ package then the add on at £■■■ to teach the extras you feel a driver needs? A bit like they offer pass plus for car drivers. - Is there a certificate you could offer that agencies would accept to prove the trainee has a higher level of knowledge and therefore more employable? If there was a higher chance of employment more people would take it up.
If there was an extra package what do you think it should consist of - bearing in mind the normal limitations of a training school 
By limitations I mean that they are not likely to all have available, a curtainsider, a fridge, a box, a flatbed, a double deck trailer, etc etc.