TonyS:
ROG:
TonyS:
ROG:
I think my point has still been missedLegally who can effectively scrap the UK dcpc within the UK?
The UK Govt? = no
The drivers? = no
The companies employing the drivers? = no
The trainers = yesUnless I have missed something ■■?
Maybe you should stop now.
Have made the relevant word in red - the one you missed 
ROG:
I think my point has still been missed
Here you go ROG, try this for now until my mate’s JCB arrives later. 
dieseldave:
ROG:
I think my point has still been missedHere you go ROG, try this for now until my mate’s JCB arrives later.
0
Don’t need to matey - the logic of what I said stands up … no trainers = no dcpc
ROG:
dieseldave:
ROG:
I think my point has still been missedHere you go ROG, try this for now until my mate’s JCB arrives later.
0
Don’t need to matey - the logic of what I said stands up … no trainers = no dcpc
Then how exactly does your scheme envisage the UK avoiding the fine from the EU?
ROG:
TonyS:
ROG:
TonyS:
ROG:
I think my point has still been missedLegally who can effectively scrap the UK dcpc within the UK?
The UK Govt? = no
The drivers? = no
The companies employing the drivers? = no
The trainers = yesUnless I have missed something ■■?
Maybe you should stop now.
Have made the relevant word in red - the one you missed
At this point I hope you’ll forgive me for resorting to English. You assert that the trainers can effectively scrap the UK DCPC within the UK. Leaving aside the question as to where else you would scrap the UK implementation of Directive 2003/59/EC other than in the UK, this implies that the trainers can overturn existing, ratified and implemented EU legislation. Which is incorrect.
A word of advice. Seven in fact. Stick to that about which you know. I’m looking forwards to the silence.
The DSA trainers and instructors have gone on strike again, therefore it is legal to drive without passing a driving examination, only in Leicester…
TonyS:
I’m looking forwards to the silence.
Tony,
It generally goes quiet about now, cos ROG gets called for his tea.
10pm is also a good time, cos that’s when the keyboard gets confiscated and locked in a cupboard for the night.
ROG still needs to tell us how his scheme will save the UK from being fined though. 
ROG:
dieseldave:
ROG:
I think my point has still been missedHere you go ROG, try this for now until my mate’s JCB arrives later.
0
Don’t need to matey - the logic of what I said stands up … no trainers = no dcpc
Good plan, all trainers give up training and go on the dole, just to satisfy a load of drivers who don’t want to do the DCPC. There’s a flaw there somewhere…
tallyman:
Good plan, all trainers give up training and go on the dole,
As most only do it part time - maybe 1 or 2 a week at best then I doubt that
Besides, what did they do before it came into force?
ROG:
tallyman:
Good plan, all trainers give up training and go on the dole,As most only do it part time - maybe 1 or 2 a week at best then I doubt that
Besides, what did they do before it came into force?
I was led to believe most were ex drivers.
What is wrong with the LOGIC that if there are no trainers then the dcpc does not go anywhere
This is akin to what has happened with the RTD - the EU issued a Directive, the UK made law for the directive but the Govt did not give VOSA enough manpower to oversee it so the result is what ?
Are you suggesting that the legislation that led to the implementation of the RTD has been revoked?
You asserted that trainers could legally scrap the DCPC. That is materially incorrect. How are cuts in Government funding at a national level in anyway akin to the claimed power of an unelected and mostly part-time group (trainers) to revoke D2003/59/EC?
I suspect that you have no idea what you are talking about.
TonyS:
Are you suggesting that the legislation that led to the implementation of the RTD has been revoked?You asserted that trainers could legally scrap the DCPC. That is materially incorrect. How are cuts in Government funding at a national level in anyway akin to the claimed power of an unelected and mostly part-time group (trainers) to revoke D2003/59/EC?
I suspect that you have no idea what you are talking about.
Blimey - its like pulling teeth !!
I said EFFECTIVELY scrap the dcpc by doing nothing illegal … please read carefully
The RTD is EFFECTIVELY useless/scrapped legally because the UK Govt nor any other body have done nothing illegal
ROG:
What is wrong with the LOGIC that if there are no trainers then the dcpc does not go anywhereThis is akin to what has happened with the RTD - the EU issued a Directive, the UK made law for the directive but the Govt did not give VOSA enough manpower to oversee it so the result is what ?
I think the logic comes from here;
Under Directive 88/599/EEC (3) roadside checks are
confined to daily driving time, daily rest periods, and
breaks. When digital recording equipment is introduced
driver and vehicle data will be stored electronically and
data will be able to be evaluated electronically on the
spot. This should, over time, enable simple checks to be
carried out on regular and reduced daily rest periods and
on regular and reduced weekly rest periods and
compensatory rest.
and will be closely followed by this;
Directive 2002/15/EC of the European Parliament and of
the Council of 11 March 2002 on the organisation of the
working time of persons performing mobile road
transport activities (5) requires Member States to adopt
measures which limit the maximum weekly working
time of mobile workers.
ROG:
What is wrong with the LOGIC that if there are no trainers then the dcpc does not go anywhereThis is akin to what has happened with the RTD - the EU issued a Directive, the UK made law for the directive but the Govt did not give VOSA enough manpower to oversee it so the result is what ?
The Government have administer the RTD and enforcement, and technically it is in place. Companies keep records, but it’s not easy to check at the roadside.
The DCPC is administered by private companies and the industry pay for training, either companies or drivers. The need to carry a card means it’s easy to check at the roadside, both here and in Europe.
I would also suggest that as the UK has an opt out for the WTD, it means that the government isn’t that keen on the RTD, so hasn’t put pressure on VOSA to up the rate it checks companies are complying and to offer anymore than verbal warnings as enforcement, feeling that checking Drivers Hours and Maintenance issues are a more important use of its resources.
ROG:
Blimey - its like pulling teeth !!
Yes ROG, I’ll agree wholeheartedly with you on that point.
Whether the RTD is enforced or not isn’t the issue here and it’s not for any of us to reason how/why any piece of legislation may or may not be at the top of any enforcing body’s list of priorities.
FYI, there are many laws that don’t get enforced, or are only given lip service by the authorities.
However, the DCPC seems to be a hot political topic.
The real issue with your idea is that it’s taking a massive gamble on the DCPC being swept under the carpet and forgotten for a lack of interest.
IMHO, nobody in their right mind would take such a gamble.
However, you still haven’t addressed the question I asked earlier of how your idea deals with what you’d have the government do to avoid the fine from Europe for failing to comply with the Directive.
The RTD is EFFECTIVELY useless/scrapped legally because the UK Govt nor any other body have done nothing illegal
Has the legislation been revoked? Yes or no? Legislation is a noun. It exists, it is a binary construct. It is either in force or it is not. It cannot be anything other. That the authorities may or may not choose to prosecute transgressions of that same legislation does not mean that it does not exist. If it has not been revoked, then it remains.
Look, if it’s attention that you crave, surely there are other more appropriate encounter groups for you than this one within which, God forbid, people might be minded to take you seriously?
…
Well that’s it. I’ve locked the doors of the training room for the last time.
I have taken Rog’s advice and thrown in the towel. I rang JAUPT to let them know but apparently their standard service level for answering the telephone is 15 days so I left a message. “I quit - what are you gonna do about that!”
Rog is pefectly right (as usual). I just couldn’t see it for common sense.
So the room of 17 lads I have booked for tomorrow will have to do without their DCPC - but it won’t matter 'cos by the time 2014 comes round I should have managed to persude all the trainers to follow my lead and pack it in.
HA! That’ll show the Government. They won’t have a clue what to do about it!!
alte hase:
Then how exactly does your scheme envisage the UK avoiding the fine from the EU?
dieseldaveThe same way british governments pick and chose which other directives to ignore or enforce, like the maximun height limit for hgv’s, perhaps?.
I wont do it , but I’ll be late 63, I refuse to be treated like a schoolkid, 40 years with clean hgv licence and 40 years hgv driving, this is the straw that breaks the camels back, I have every faith in our neo ‘liberal’ masters to up the ante with a clear message from the dcpc victim base confirming their unquestioning acceptance, docility and limitless capacity to be subservient, such clear messages have been the hallmark of british drivers since the advent of the tacho itself, which brought about in real terms an increased workload, and brought about in real terms lower wages, and brought about in real terms increased pressure behind the wheel, the culmination of which sees hgv drivers having more accidents today than could ever have been imagined 40 years ago.
The tacho, this ‘safety’ device has destroyed road safety and the repute of hgv drivers, who are the real beneficiaries of this neo liberal device?, did I say neo liberal?, well ,neo something thats for sure, every measure taken by the EU legislation ‘doctors’ has made the transport ‘patient’ ever more desperately ill, its so ‘in your face’ that its no different with this dcpc ‘pill’.
Those who are looking forward to old timers quitting, believing it will put pressure on wages to climb, are the real suckers here, any ‘vacuum’ created by british drivers leaving will be filled by an endless supply of auslanders, who come dcpc equipped already, any EU dcpc is valid here, which must be terribly frustrating to the domestic dcpc providers speculatively aiming to make their fortunes off the backs of all drivers, I wonder how many in their ranks are business refugees from the intended Home Information Packs rip off, looking forward to making great sums from a captive victim base, british drivers are fast heading to a future where the only good thing in it will be the past.
Great post mate.