dieseldave:
ROG:
The trainers are the ones backing the Govt and the EU legislators and it is the trainers who have the power to do something about it
ROG,
I think your point is somewhat misguided.
My answer is prefaced by… this is my own personal opinion as a TN member.
Let’s just remember how this played…
The EU came up with an idea.
The idea went through whatever process there is at the European Parliament.
The EU issued a Directive.
There was a consultation period, so that interested parties could voice their opinions.
The UK Government passed a new law as required by the Directive.
I’m not seeing anything to suggest that the trainers are actually “backing” the Government, in fact just about every trainer I’ve met (and that’s quite a few) has voiced various concerns about the DCPC’s fitness for purpose.
At last - a sensible post!! As a trainer I am by no means backing the Government. There are plenty of points about the DCPC that I don’t agree with but I appear to be powerless to do anything about, although I don’t stop trying. As pointed out elsewhere by Rog I could jack it all in - that’d show 'em! But why should I? The Government set the rules and I complied - I like to think I have actually over-complied and deliver the training to a higher standard than expected.
dieseldave:
I share some of those concerns, but from my own experiences teaching in classrooms my concerns are:
1.) As an awarding body, JAUPT don’t seem to have a clue about any of the subject matter in the courses for which they are responsible.
Up until about a month ago I would agree completely - however things appear to be changing. JAUPT appear to now have what they are calling “Approvals specialists”. I’m not sure if these are bods at JAUPT or contractors. Previously getting a course approved was simple - now it seems more difficult. So far a course I have submitted has failed to be approved. They have requested far more information than usual, the full powerpoint presentation, hand outs and also asked lots of questions that would indicate some knowledge of the subject. Other trainers have told similar stories. So it seems the bar has been raised.
dieseldave:
2.) (AFAIK and I’ll stand to be corrected.) A provider can register and be approved without an initial inspection, which to me, suggests a gross lack of proper control. They’ll still take the registration fee though.
Yes - although an audit will be carried out within the first 12 months. Of course a provider may not even have any premises to be inspected. It is feasible I could run a DCPC centre from my home and use various rooms around the country for delivery. Therefore the only things JAUPT could check would be my filing cabinets!! Obviously to gain centre approval various forms need to be completed and various documents (insurance, Quality Assurance documents etc) submitted.
dieseldave:
3.) A course can be submitted for “approval,” but having regard to point #1 above, the process is somewhat pointless.
From a typical submission for course approval… a seven hour course to give drivers a thorough understanding of the regulations and safety aspects of x, y and z.
The person reading that in the JAUPT office has no way of knowing what x, y and z actually are or measuring the accuracy of what’s in front of them, so my question is… how valid is an “it’s approved” decision?
They’ll still take the course approval fee though.
As above - this appears to be changing
dieseldave:
4.) The JAUPT external verifiers I’ve met have admitted that they don’t have knowledge of the subjects they’re verifying, which tends to make their lesson verification rather pointless. However, they do know how to operate a stopwatch to check on lesson duration. They also know how to do an audit on the premises, so that at least there are proper checks on the paperwork and admin.
In the early days this was the case, and for some subjects still is. However, the last few auditors I have met appear to have specialist subjects and those are the courses they audit. Not always the case but it seems JAUPT are trying to do it this way. The last audit I had the guy was an ex-driver who became a driver trainer and then an auditor. He did know the subject matter.
dieseldave:
5.) (AFAIK and I’ll stand to be corrected.) There is no proper and equally enforced JAUPT controlled standard of minimum qualification(s) for DCPC instructors. IMHO, an instructor should have a proper qualification in their chosen subject area, then JAUPT can think about a suitable teaching qualification. The issue here is that many subjects don’t have a measurable knowledge standard, which unfortunately leaves the way open for the wafflers and BS merchants.
As you have said some subjects just don’t have a recognised qualification. Therefore the only solution is proof of experience/knowledge - and that is what JAUPT ask for - a form signed by someone to say that trainer has relevant knowledge AND experience. At some point the wafflers and BS merchants will be caught in an audit (although they haven’t caught me yet 
)
You are correct that there isn’t a minimum qualification for delivering the training - well there is, a form signed by someone to say the trainer can do the job. Personally I have two recognised trainer qualifications and most trainers I know have at least PTLLS or above.
dieseldave:
Having said the above, I’ve never delivered a course that was solely contrived for the purposes of DCPC, because I prefer to stick to ADR and leave the other DCPC subjects to those braver than me. 
As you know Dave I have two 3.5 hour DCPC modules registered and approved that are based on ADR but solely for the purpose of DCPC. Should I have customers wishing to attend said courses I would employ your services to deliver them. You are (so far) the only trainer listed as authorised to deliver these courses and that’s how it should work. The right trainer for the right course. That is how I run my business. I bring in trainers for certain subjects. ADR, First Aid, Manual Handling and I stick to delivering the courses I feel I am right to deliver. I could have a go at delivering the ADR Awareness course. I have an ADR licence so why not? Because I’m not knowledgeable enough - that’s why not. So I would pay you to do it. And THAT is the difference between a decent training provider and some of the DCPC providers out there. They don’t care who delivers the course or how it is delivered and in my opinion that sums up the DCPC CONSORTIUMS I have come across so far.
I would have finished mine last year.
It’s a shame that they hadn’t done this from the start, because if they’d got it right first time, the whole idea of DCPC might not have become so discredited. 
maybe people are realising it is not going to go away.