DCPC Card, Carrying of!

ROG:

threewheelsonmywagon:
Scenario:

Sometime between now and September, a lorry gets pulled by SADVD. Driver has held licence for over, say, 10 years, has done full DCPC “training”, DQC is at home in his sideboard, next to his licence and paper counterpart.

SADVD - “Got your licence and DQC drive?”
Driver - “No mate, they’re at home”
SADVD - “Oh dear. How long have you had LGV entitlement drive?”
Driver - “Passed my test in '92 mate.”
SADVD - “And have you any proof of that?”
Driver - “Err, no.”
SADVD - “Oh dear again. Well drive, as you can’t prove that you’re legally entitled to drive your lorry, you’ll have
to stay here until you get me some proof.”
Driver - “Can’t you check on your computer?”
SADVD - “If only, it went down just before I pulled you in.Not your lucky day is it? And to think, if you carried your photocard and DQC in your wallet, you’d be on your way now…”

Sounds unlikely doesn’t it? :unamused: :unamused: :unamused:

The driving licence producer within 7 days is the law

Accepted, Rog,but I’m thinking DQC rather than LGV entitlement.

The point I was trying to make is that a driver with DCPC “grandfather rights” can only prove he has those rights by carrying his licence. If such a driver was pulled by SADVD and they were in a jobsworth mood, what’s to stop them parking-up said lorry on the assumption that while the driver may be fully legal licence-wise, without his licence he can’t prove his DCPC status?

If push came to shove, I reckon SADVD would say the onus is on the driver to prove his DCPC qualification rather than them dis-proving it :question:

threewheelsonmywagon:

ROG:

threewheelsonmywagon:
Scenario:

Sometime between now and September, a lorry gets pulled by SADVD. Driver has held licence for over, say, 10 years, has done full DCPC “training”, DQC is at home in his sideboard, next to his licence and paper counterpart.

SADVD - “Got your licence and DQC drive?”
Driver - “No mate, they’re at home”
SADVD - “Oh dear. How long have you had LGV entitlement drive?”
Driver - “Passed my test in '92 mate.”
SADVD - “And have you any proof of that?”
Driver - “Err, no.”
SADVD - “Oh dear again. Well drive, as you can’t prove that you’re legally entitled to drive your lorry, you’ll have
to stay here until you get me some proof.”
Driver - “Can’t you check on your computer?”
SADVD - “If only, it went down just before I pulled you in.Not your lucky day is it? And to think, if you carried your photocard and DQC in your wallet, you’d be on your way now…”

Sounds unlikely doesn’t it? :unamused: :unamused: :unamused:

The driving licence producer within 7 days is the law

Accepted, Rog,but I’m thinking DQC rather than LGV entitlement.

The point I was trying to make is that a driver with DCPC “grandfather rights” can only prove he has those rights by carrying his licence, as Weeto pointed out. Your licence is the only proof you have of those rights. If such a driver was pulled by SADVD and they were in a jobsworth mood, what’s to stop them parking-up said lorry on the assumption that while the driver may be fully legal licence-wise, without his licence he can’t prove his DCPC status?

If push came to shove, I reckon SADVD would say the onus is on the driver to prove his DCPC qualification rather than them dis-proving it :question:

And I can’t even differentiate between “edit” and “quote” :open_mouth:.

I’ve obviously been living in East Yorkshire too long :blush: :unamused: :grimacing:

If a driver says he had a DQC but does not have it on him then that driver has just admitted to an offence

If a driver is stopped and states they have acquired rights but no DQC yet then the legal onus is on the authorities to prove otherwise

ROG:
If a driver says he had a DQC but does not have it on him then that driver has just admitted to an offence

If a driver is stopped and states they have acquired rights but no DQC yet then the legal onus is on the authorities to prove otherwise

And if they can prove he has a DQC you can be sure of a bigger FINE

There is no offence committed for not carrying the DQC before September if you have acquired rights, your licence which shows that you have acquired rights would be sufficient.

From the regulations (Article 10 - The Vehicle Drivers (Certificates of Professional Competence) Regulations 2007):

Requirement to carry and produce evidence of CPC or of training exemption in vehicle

11.–(1) Subject to paragraph (4), a person who is required to hold a CPC by virtue of
regulation 9(1) and who does not carry with him in the vehicle which he is driving evidence of
that CPC as specified in paragraph (2) is guilty of an offence.

(2) That evidence may be any of the following documents–
(a) a driver qualification card;
(b) a Community licence with the Community code;
(c) a driver’s certificate granted to him by a member State other than the United Kingdom as
referred to in Article 10(3)(a) of the Directive; or
(d) any other document issued to the driver by a member State other than the United
Kingdom certifying an initial CPC or a periodic CPC.

I am on the buses so I have mine and have to carry it always when involved in commercial driving.I was on a football job once and met a driver who was parked up until someone (his wife )brought his card out to him.When you get your card it has no chip just your photo and dates on it.

tachograph:
There is no offence committed for not carrying the DQC before September if you have acquired rights, your licence which shows that you have acquired rights would be sufficient.

From the regulations (Article 10 - The Vehicle Drivers (Certificates of Professional Competence) Regulations 2007):

Requirement to carry and produce evidence of CPC or of training exemption in vehicle

11.–(1) Subject to paragraph (4), a person who is required to hold a CPC by virtue of
regulation 9(1) and who does not carry with him in the vehicle which he is driving evidence of
that CPC as specified in paragraph (2) is guilty of an offence.

(2) That evidence may be any of the following documents–
(a) a driver qualification card;
(b) a Community licence with the Community code;
(c) a driver’s certificate granted to him by a member State other than the United Kingdom as
referred to in Article 10(3)(a) of the Directive; or
(d) any other document issued to the driver by a member State other than the United
Kingdom certifying an initial CPC or a periodic CPC.

Well, that clears that up then. Thanks Tachograph.

tachograph:
There is no offence committed for not carrying the DQC before September if you have acquired rights, your licence which shows that you have acquired rights would be sufficient.

From the regulations (Article 10 - The Vehicle Drivers (Certificates of Professional Competence) Regulations 2007):

Requirement to carry and produce evidence of CPC or of training exemption in vehicle

11.–(1) Subject to paragraph (4), a person who is required to hold a CPC by virtue of
regulation 9(1) and who does not carry with him in the vehicle which he is driving evidence of
that CPC as specified in paragraph (2) is guilty of an offence.

(2) That evidence may be any of the following documents–
(a) a driver qualification card;
(b) a Community licence with the Community code;
(c) a driver’s certificate granted to him by a member State other than the United Kingdom as
referred to in Article 10(3)(a) of the Directive; or
(d) any other document issued to the driver by a member State other than the United
Kingdom certifying an initial CPC or a periodic CPC.

Maybe I am being a bit slow here, but how are you interpreting the qouted regulation to fit in with my bold?

Come Sept 10th all this will be academic

Héraultais:

tachograph:
There is no offence committed for not carrying the DQC before September if you have acquired rights, your licence which shows that you have acquired rights would be sufficient.

From the regulations (Article 10 - The Vehicle Drivers (Certificates of Professional Competence) Regulations 2007):

Requirement to carry and produce evidence of CPC or of training exemption in vehicle

11.–(1) Subject to paragraph (4), a person who is required to hold a CPC by virtue of
regulation 9(1) and who does not carry with him in the vehicle which he is driving evidence of
that CPC as specified in paragraph (2) is guilty of an offence.

(2) That evidence may be any of the following documents–
(a) a driver qualification card;
(b) a Community licence with the Community code;
(c) a driver’s certificate granted to him by a member State other than the United Kingdom as
referred to in Article 10(3)(a) of the Directive; or
(d) any other document issued to the driver by a member State other than the United
Kingdom certifying an initial CPC or a periodic CPC.

Maybe I am being a bit slow here, but how are you interpreting the qouted regulation to fit in with my bold?

I would say you would have to read paragraph 4 ROG, and at a guess, paragraph 4 relates to who has acquired rights, which is any driver who passed their hgv test before 10th sept 2009.

ROG:
Come Sept 10th all this will be academic

true Rog …

ROG:
Come Sept 10th all this will be academic

Maybe so, but it doesn’t give some vosa officers the right to fine drivers for a non offence, but a pound to a penny the ones that have been done are drivers who haven’t got acquired rights and are by law required to carry their DQC.

Héraultais:

tachograph:
There is no offence committed for not carrying the DQC before September if you have acquired rights, your licence which shows that you have acquired rights would be sufficient.

From the regulations (Article 10 - The Vehicle Drivers (Certificates of Professional Competence) Regulations 2007):

Requirement to carry and produce evidence of CPC or of training exemption in vehicle

11.–(1) Subject to paragraph (4), a person who is required to hold a CPC by virtue of
regulation 9(1) and who does not carry with him in the vehicle which he is driving evidence of
that CPC as specified in paragraph (2) is guilty of an offence.

(2) That evidence may be any of the following documents–
(a) a driver qualification card;
(b) a Community licence with the Community code;
(c) a driver’s certificate granted to him by a member State other than the United Kingdom as
referred to in Article 10(3)(a) of the Directive; or
(d) any other document issued to the driver by a member State other than the United
Kingdom certifying an initial CPC or a periodic CPC.

Maybe I am being a bit slow here, but how are you interpreting the qouted regulation to fit in with my bold?

Sorry but I’m not 100% sure I understand what you mean, the regulation states that any person who is required to hold a DCPC qualification must carry proof of having it.

Your licence has the date that a HGV licence was first issued to you, if you’re HGV entitlement in any class of vehicle was valid before 2009 you are not required to hold a DCPC until September.

As far as I can see the regulations do not say that everyone with a DQC must carry it, it only applies to people who are legally required to hold a DCPC qualification, the licence is proof that you are exempt from legally requiring a DQC until September.

Sorry if I’ve misunderstood your question :wink:

weeto:
I would say you would have to read paragraph 4 ROG, and at a guess, paragraph 4 relates to who has acquired rights, which is any driver who passed their hgv test before 10th sept 2009.

Not quite but it was a good guess :smiley:

Paragraph 4 is about people who have applied for a DQC but not yet received it.

I said in a previous post it was article 10 The Vehicle Drivers (Certificates of Professional Competence) Regulations 2007, sorry it’s actually article 11.

I’ve now found a link straight to the relevant article :slight_smile:

Article 11 - The Vehicle Drivers (Certificates of Professional Competence) Regulations 2007

tachograph:

weeto:
I would say you would have to read paragraph 4 ROG, and at a guess, paragraph 4 relates to who has acquired rights, which is any driver who passed their hgv test before 10th sept 2009.

Not quite but it was a good guess :smiley:

Paragraph 4 is about people who have applied for a DQC but not yet received it.

I said in a previous post it was article 10 The Vehicle Drivers (Certificates of Professional Competence) Regulations 2007, sorry it’s actually article 11.

I’ve now found a link straight to the relevant article :slight_smile:

Article 11 - The Vehicle Drivers (Certificates of Professional Competence) Regulations 2007

Ok, but this is the bit paragraph 4 which is what I meant, I couldn’t find the regulations, ta.

Persons who must take initial CPC test

  1. (1) Except where paragraph (5) or (9) applies and subject to paragraph (7), a person to whom these Regulations apply is not permitted to drive a relevant vehicle on a road on or after the date specified in paragraph (3) unless he has successfully completed the appropriate initial CPC test.
    (2) For the purposes of this regulation–

(a)

the appropriate initial CPC test is the test relating to vehicles of the category into which that particular relevant vehicle falls;
.

(b)

where Article 5(5) of the Directive applies, the appropriate initial CPC test must comply with the last paragraph of Section 2.2 of Annex I to the Directive.
.
(3) The specified date is 10th September 2008 in respect of vehicles in licence category D or D+E and 10th September 2009 in respect of vehicles in licence category C or C+E.
(4) A person may take the initial CPC test whether or not he has been granted a driving licence for a relevant vehicle.
(5) This paragraph applies where–

(a)

a person is undergoing a vocational training course leading to a professional qualification relevant to the carriage by road of passengers or goods (or both) and which is approved by the competent authority as a course to which this paragraph applies;
.

(b)

that course lasts at least six months;
.

(c)

that person has produced to the competent authority’s satisfaction such evidence as that authority may reasonably require that he is undergoing such a course;
.

(d)

the competent authority has issued that person with a document authorising him to drive that relevant vehicle for a specified period of up to 12 months while undertaking such a course; and
.

(e)

that person is driving within the United Kingdom.
.
(6) The competent authority may authorise a person under paragraph (5)(d) in respect of only one specified period.
7) A person is not required to take an initial CPC test relating to vehicles of the category into which that particular relevant vehicle falls if he holds a document described in paragraph (8) –

(a)

on 10th September 2008, if that vehicle falls into category D or D+E;
.

(b)

on 10th September 2009, if that vehicle falls into category C or C+E.
.
(8) That document may be –

(a)

a current driving licence;
.

(b)

a current driving licence issued by a member State other than the United Kingdom;
.

(c)

a current driving licence recognised as equivalent to a document described in sub-paragraph (a) or (b); or
.

(d)

a current test pass certificate entitling its holder to a driving licence authorising the driving of any relevant vehicle.
.
(9) This paragraph applies where a person holds a CPC certifying an initial qualification within the meaning of Article 6(1)(a) of the Directive (CPC awarded on the basis of course attendance and a test).
(10) A person who has passed the initial CPC test in respect of a vehicle which falls within–

(a)

category C or C+E, or
.

(b)

category D or D+E,
.
need not take another initial CPC test to drive any relevant vehicle that falls within the other category referred to in the same sub-paragraph.

tachograph:
Sorry but I’m not 100% sure I understand what you mean, the regulation states that any person who is required to hold a DCPC qualification must carry proof of having it.

Your licence has the date that a HGV licence was first issued to you, if you’re HGV entitlement in any class of vehicle was valid before 2009 you are not required to hold a DCPC until September.

As far as I can see the regulations do not say that everyone with a DQC must carry it, it only applies to people who are legally required to hold a DCPC qualification, the licence is proof that you are exempt from legally requiring a DQC until September.

Sorry if I’ve misunderstood your question :wink:

My point is that you are quoting paragraph 11 as if it ties in with your statement that for those with acquired rights their licence is sufficient proof. However none of the 4 proofs in sub para 4 cover a UK licence holder with grandfather rights.

Héraultais:

tachograph:
Sorry but I’m not 100% sure I understand what you mean, the regulation states that any person who is required to hold a DCPC qualification must carry proof of having it.

Your licence has the date that a HGV licence was first issued to you, if you’re HGV entitlement in any class of vehicle was valid before 2009 you are not required to hold a DCPC until September.

As far as I can see the regulations do not say that everyone with a DQC must carry it, it only applies to people who are legally required to hold a DCPC qualification, the licence is proof that you are exempt from legally requiring a DQC until September.

Sorry if I’ve misunderstood your question :wink:

My point is that you are quoting paragraph 11 as if it ties in with your statement that for those with acquired rights their licence is sufficient proof. However none of the 4 proofs in sub para 4 cover a UK licence holder with grandfather rights.

So what’s a community licence if not a community driving licence, which I think you’ll find is the only licence handed out now and as far as I’m aware has been for quite some time.

I’ll stand to be corrected though.

tachograph:
So what’s a community licence if not a community driving licence, which I think you’ll find is the only licence handed out now and as far as I’m aware has been for quite some time.

I’ll stand to be corrected though.

You are not taking account that this bit in bold

(b)a Community licence with the Community code;

refers to theose countries that put the code 95 on the licence for the CPC instead of issuing a seperate card.

weeto:

nick2008:

weeto:

wheelnutt:
If you have it flaunt it. Yes you have to carry it when driving a vehicle requiring the driver to hold a DCPC qualification.

I you have grandfathered rights, yuor license is your qualification, but in this case you won’t have to carry it. You won’t have a DCPC card until you have met the 35 hours recurrent training requirement, if you have completed those, you again need to carry your card.

So mr VOSA at Felixstowe is behind the times then, incidentally have you got this requirement in black and white mr wheelnut? The bit about carrying the card after completing 35 hrs training that is.

The Driver Qualification Card (DQC)

Once you have completed your 35 hours of periodic training you will be issued with a Driver qualification card (DQC). It will be sent to the address on your driving licence. . You must carry your DQC while driving a large goods vehicle or passenger carrying vehicle.

You won’t get a DQC if you have your Driver Certificate of Professional Competence (CPC) through ‘acquired rights’ until you’ve done 35 hours of periodic training.

once you have it you need to carry it .much like your digi tacho ( if you don’t have one you cant carry it can you but as soon as you have one you must carry it even if you never ever drive another vehicle with a digi

So you get unfairly penalised for doing it, over some one who hasn’t? Can you post a link to we’re this is please?

Lol. Go Europe.