James the cat:
Your time driving vacuum sweepers?
That was a negligable amount of my 5 years on the council.Unlike the 15 years of mostly artics on night trunking involving plenty of trailer swaps. 
As soon as I saw the title, I knew which way this thread was going. Only surprise was it took six replies before it happened!
To the OP, crack on drive, nowt wrong with what you’re doing.
To animal: did you do your tug test ×2? Our place assess you on your couple/uncouple and that’s a big one, but most people forget to take their keys out!!!
Carryfast:
James the cat:
Carryfast:
eagerbeaver:
it’s the pricks who ram into the trailers relying on the slide rails that often come a cropper.Ironically it’s those ‘relying on the lifting runners’ who aren’t going to be the ones putting a trailer through the back of the cab.
“Those” will have a clunking surprise if they do this with one of the majority of units that doesn’t have ramps. The sounds of the leading edge of the trailer smacking into the back of the chassis
Ramps are bolted to the top of the chassis not level with it and no ramps then it’s the forks on the fifth wheel that are supposed to be there to lift the trailer.In no case should the trailer be low enough or unit high enough to hit the chassis going under a trailer.
Ramps are actually getting rarer these days. Good thing too they’re just a licence to be rough. Believe it or not Carryfast with this new fangled air suspension you can pick up a trailer very very gently. I can hitch up with a full cup of coffee on the dash, it’s good for focusing the mind
James the cat:
You do know if people did it properly and after raising the unit got out and checked the aim of the pin against the fith wheel this wouldn’t happen? It’s people who don’t do the job properly who [zb] it up. People it seems who would be well suited to your agricultural old method. Those dirty of suzie types who refuse to do the job properly so they need baby ramps to run up. Diddums.
Have you checked the best practice information in which firstly no where does it say drop the unit below the trailer before putting it under to save a bit of grease getting on the lines etc.While,as I said,raising the unit without checking/knowing whether the pin has gone too far into the jaws is part of the problem in doing it your way in potentially fouling the jaws against the pin as you raise the unit. 
Carryfast:
stevieboy308:
I think it’s a good job you don’t get anywhere near a truck anymore, if you can’t judge when you’re under a trailer, especially as most trailers have a deep pin without shooting the pin, the last place you wanna be for all our sakes is trying to steer itIf it’s all supposedly about the minimising of grease being wiped off the fifth wheel against the trailer you’re not judging when ‘it’s under the trailer’.You’re obviously judging the difference between the pin reaching the forks of the fifth wheel v the jaws.Which is obviously even more a case of guesswork with a deep pin.As for doing that with a zb auto box without any clutch control over where it actually ends up carry on.Bearing in mind all the comments about units which seem to have had trailers hit their cabs which I don’t ever remember in my time.
Grease is not my main reason, it’s the best way for the legs, it’s the best way to check the height, it’s the most mechanical sympathetic way, it minimises the amount of greased on the front lip of the trailer.
Oh yeah, currently driving an auto man that’s on hire, with no run up ramps, even with the ■■■■■■■■ of all autos, I’m still confident enough to pick up a bulker with only a tiny amount of spare rubbing plate. I manage to stop in the same place every time - when the front marker stay is over the fifth wheel handle! I know, crazy isn’t it?
Carryfast:
James the cat:
You do know if people did it properly and after raising the unit got out and checked the aim of the pin against the fith wheel this wouldn’t happen? It’s people who don’t do the job properly who [zb] it up. People it seems who would be well suited to your agricultural old method. Those dirty of suzie types who refuse to do the job properly so they need baby ramps to run up. Diddums.Have you checked the best practice information in which firstly no where does it say drop the unit below the trailer before putting it under to save a bit of grease getting on the lines etc.While,as I said,raising the unit without checking/knowing whether the pin has gone too far into the jaws is part of the problem in doing it your way in potentially fouling the jaws against the pin as you raise the unit.
You really are a specialist aren’t you 
? You do walk into these things. Alright
Have you actually read what I said? Where did I ever state about dropping unit height. If you read this best practice stuff it does highlight getting out and checking the aim, just as I said.
Incidentally I do personally drop a unit without ramps prior to backing short, then check, then raise, then check, then back. If one can’t do that then they’re a spaz and should be driving vacuum sweepers. Probably the same divs who bend the bloody legs
Carryfast:
James the cat:
Your time driving vacuum sweepers?That was a negligable amount of my 5 years on the council.Unlike the 15 years of mostly artics on night trunking involving plenty of trailer swaps.
What was that driving. Don’t tell me, something with ramps 
? Did you have to heat the fuel lines on it in the morning?
switchlogic:
Ramps are actually getting rarer these days. Good thing too they’re just a licence to be rough. Believe it or not Carryfast with this new fangled air suspension you can pick up a trailer very very gently. I can hitch up with a full cup of coffee on the dash, it’s good for focusing the mind
The point is that best practice rightly instructs that the coupling process is all done at one level,IE trailer lower than fifth wheel height,from start to finish.That doesn’t necessarily mean any need for ramps or any need to send the coffee flying.At least in the days of having a clutch to control the thing.In which case even more reason to have the trailer sitting on the fifth wheel table and the pin in the way of the jaws as it goes back with nothing but the throttle and brakes to control the thing.
Carryfast:
switchlogic:
Ramps are actually getting rarer these days. Good thing too they’re just a licence to be rough. Believe it or not Carryfast with this new fangled air suspension you can pick up a trailer very very gently. I can hitch up with a full cup of coffee on the dash, it’s good for focusing the mindThe point is that best practice rightly instructs that the coupling process is all done at one level,IE trailer lower than fifth wheel height,from start to finish.That doesn’t necessarily mean any need for ramps or any need to send the coffee flying.At least in the days of having a clutch to control the thing.In which case even more reason to have the trailer sitting on the fifth wheel table and the pin in the way of the jaws as it goes back with nothing but the throttle and brakes to control the thing.
You do also know that most units these days don’t have clutch pedals?
stevieboy308:
Grease is not my main reason, it’s the best way for the legs, it’s the best way to check the height, it’s the most mechanical sympathetic way, it minimises the amount of greased on the front lip of the trailer.
How isn’t it good for height or for the legs to lift the trailer off its legs from the first point of contact and throughout the coupling process and with the trailer sitting where it needs to be with all its weight on the fifth wheel thereby ensuring that the pin can’t be anywhere other than at the correct height relative to the fifth wheel as it goes into the jaws. 
James the cat:
You do also know that most units these days don’t have clutch pedals?
I know that was my point scary isn’t it.Which as I said is even more reason to make sure that the pin is at the correct height and thereby in the way of the jaws when putting the unit under it by making sure that the trailer is lower ( not too low ) than the fifth wheel table height from start to finish of the coupling process.
Carryfast:
James the cat:
You do also know that most units these days don’t have clutch pedals?I know that was my point scary isn’t it.
It scares me so much I watch horror films to calm me down before bed
You’re so lucky you’re not driving in this century. It’s terrible. The other day my Volvo actually tried to eat me
James the cat:
Carryfast:
James the cat:
You do also know that most units these days don’t have clutch pedals?I know that was my point scary isn’t it.
It scares me so much I watch horror films to calm me down before bed
You’re so lucky you’re not driving in this century. It’s terrible. The other day my Volvo actually tried to eat me
Simples.Get revenge on the zb by lowering the air suspension when coupling up and wait for the cab instead of the pin to stop it.The amount of throttle input and therefore speed is obviously optional depending on the level of grievance. 
Carryfast:
switchlogic:
Ramps are actually getting rarer these days. Good thing too they’re just a licence to be rough. Believe it or not Carryfast with this new fangled air suspension you can pick up a trailer very very gently. I can hitch up with a full cup of coffee on the dash, it’s good for focusing the mindThe point is that best practice rightly instructs that the coupling process is all done at one level,IE trailer lower than fifth wheel height,from start to finish.That doesn’t necessarily mean any need for ramps or any need to send the coffee flying.At least in the days of having a clutch to control the thing.In which case even more reason to have the trailer sitting on the fifth wheel table and the pin in the way of the jaws as it goes back with nothing but the throttle and brakes to control the thing.
Best practice in 1987 maybe. Things move on old chap. You’ve already admitted you’ve no experience of driving a modern auto so what would you know about the control they provide?
Until you gain experience, keep doing it the way you’ve been doing, it’s foolproof, but harsher on the unit and legs.
The most mechanically sympathetic/logical way (but can go wrong if not done right), is to lower unit suspension to below the level of the trailer, then reverse enough so you know the fifth wheel is directly below the rubbing plate. At this point stop, raise the unit suspension and make sure you physically see the trailer lifting. I usually give it a couple of seconds more lift to make sure the legs are well clear of the ground, then reverse very slowly until I see the trailer move again slightly as it’s guided into the fifth wheel jaws.
The aim is to make sure there is no lateral force being exerted whilst the legs are in contact with the ground. Legs should only be lifted or dropped straight up or down.
The grease argument is absolutely valid - using the guiderails is exactly what causes that build up of grease on the front of the trailer, which subsequently ends up on your trousers/back and hence all over the driver’s seat.
Once your comfortable with it, there is quite literally no reason to not do it this way, it’s so much better.
Carryfast:
stevieboy308:
Grease is not my main reason, it’s the best way for the legs, it’s the best way to check the height, it’s the most mechanical sympathetic way, it minimises the amount of greased on the front lip of the trailer.How isn’t it good for height or for the legs to lift the trailer off its legs from the first point of contact and throughout the coupling process and with the trailer sitting where it needs to be with all its weight on the fifth wheel thereby ensuring that the pin can’t be anywhere other than at the correct height relative to the fifth wheel as it goes into the jaws.
Your lack of experience with air suspension is shining through!
Air suspension doesn’t react as fast a steel, so back under a loaded trailer and it will push the unit down, the load sensing valve will send air to self level, but before it’s leveled you’ve got the pin locked in. Unless you were perfectly lined up, not forgetting you’re confident at judging how far under a trailer you are! There’s going to be some sideways shift, whilst the legs are on the floor with weight on.
Even if you get out to check the heights and you’re happy the trailer is low enough, it matters not if your unit is on air or steel, there’s no guarantee that you’ll lift the legs clear, loaded trailers can bow quite a bit at the front, add that to the effect on the suspension. You’re risking sideways shift and unless you get out to check, you’ll stress them when you tug test. I also do a bit of coupling off road, if I got out to check the height and it was fine, without having ago at a bit of glolfers topography! It might not be right at the point it needs to be.
Are you really telling me, in all your trailer swapping that you did each night, you never had to put it in slow wind, or press the up button if ya did do anything with air, or if you didn’t have a air suspension mental block, raise the trailer suspension, any of them to take the weight off the legs once you’d coupled up?
You then make the perfect case for the opposition
stevieboy308:
Carryfast:
How isn’t it good for height or for the legs to lift the trailer off its legs from the first point of contact and throughout the coupling process and with the trailer sitting where it needs to be with all its weight on the fifth wheel thereby ensuring that the pin can’t be anywhere other than at the correct height relative to the fifth wheel as it goes into the jaws.Your lack of experience with air suspension is shining through!
Air suspension doesn’t react as fast a steel, so back under a loaded trailer and it will push the unit down, the load sensing valve will send air to self level, but before it’s leveled you’ve got the pin locked in. Unless you were perfectly lined up, not forgetting you’re confident at judging how far under a trailer you are! There’s going to be some sideways shift, whilst the legs are on the floor with weight on.
Even if you get out to check the heights and you’re happy the trailer is low enough, it matters not if your unit is on air or steel, there’s no guarantee that you’ll lift the legs clear, loaded trailers can bow quite a bit at the front, add that to the effect on the suspension. You’re risking sideways shift and unless you get out to check, you’ll stress them when you tug test. I also do a bit of coupling off road, if I got out to check the height and it was fine, without having ago at a bit of glolfers topography! It might not be right at the point it needs to be.
Are you really telling me, in all your trailer swapping that you did each night, you never had to put it in slow wind, or press the up button if ya did do anything with air, or if you didn’t have a air suspension mental block, raise the trailer suspension, any of them to take the weight off the legs once you’d coupled up?
You then make the perfect case for the opposition
Let’s get this right you think that air won’t maintain its normal running height between putting the ramps ( or fifth wheel ) under the trailer and the pin going into the jaws.
On that note yes I did use air suspension units I think possibly the FL10’s but can’t remember but definitely DAF 85 and 95.As I’ve said elsewhere I just coupled them up and dropped them in the same way as if they were on steel suspension.IE no need to alter the suspension setting at all and definitely lifted the legs in just the same way that steel suspension did.As for the rare occassions of trailers being left too high or too low ( bearing in mind a driver pool at that time which was still mostly familiar with steel suspension and who therefore dropped trailers accordingly ) yes the adjustability of air suspension was usually a great help in that case an saved a lot of aggro winding trailers up or down.That isn’t the same thing as introducing all the unnecessary variables in dropping the height of the unit lower than the trailer,then using guess work to stop in time before the pin reaches the jaws and/or the trailer goes into the back of the cab,then lift the unit,then couple it.All to save a bit of grease getting shifted off the fifth wheel.
Having said that if you were using air suspension and demounts that would be a totally different thing.But the fact is you ain’t supposed to couple up an artic in a similar way that you’d put a demount box on a rigid and trailer.
weeto:
Carry on as you are, plenty of drivers bypass procedures when picking up trailers, especially checking height and the trailer brake, which is fine if you know for a fact the height is ok and you remember to put the hand brake on before connecting airlines.
I think the biggest mistake a lot of drivers make after leaving handbrake off is not removing the keys after the tug test.
Now I’ve been banging units under trailers for 30yrs, this includes trailers without spring brakes and units with steel springs. I have adapted to the “new” technology, which makes hooking up a lot easier, however it seems that the procedure is being over complicated now.
This is how I did it with steel springs, back up to the trailer slowly and nudge against it with the lead up ramps, if it moved a bit then there were two options, first I would try and apply the brakes with the ratchet handle, if this didn’t work, which was often as cables used to get tangled or broken then I would hit it as hard and fast as I could so that it didn’t move or block the trailer wheels with something. It was not a delicate process. In those days drivers used to drop trailers by winding the legs down until the just touched the floor, or a few inches off the ground if dropping an empty to be loaded, there was a bit of potential for it to go wrong I suppose, but it rarely did.
Then spring brakes came along and made things easier and safer, you knew the trailer would not move, so you lined up and backed under, simple stuff.
A few years later air suspension came along and made the job even easier, you lined up, dropped the suspension, backed under the trailer a bit and then lifted the suspension until it picked up the trailer a bit and then went back until you hit the pin, this was much better, no need to ram under to compress steel springs, you could keep the front of the trailer clean from 5th wheel grease and that kept the suzies clean which was good.
Then came deep pin trailers, not so much room to get between the cab and trailer to put suzies on with these, especially as it had been decided that we were too stupid to turn on a tap and had to have self sealing suzies to do that simple job for us, but by using the new features you could split couple. So you lined up with the air suspension dropped on the unit and the 5th wheel just under the nose of the trailer, applied the parking brake on the trailer and then jumped up, put the suzies on, back in the cab to lift the suspension, hit the pin, tug forward, put handbrake on, wind legs up, release trailer brake, kick tyres, check lights, put number plate on, check load as you’ve always done etc etc etc.
Then it all changed, somehow we all turned into idiots over night and drivers started smashing the back of the cab into the trailer by not using the air suspension correctly, drivers started split coupling without setting the trailer parking brake and drivers started jumping out of the cab without applying the handbrake and we had driverless lorries rolling around the yard killing people and knocking buildings down.
Now we have drivers jumping in and out of their cab like a jack in the box, checking this, checking that, turning off the engine and removing keys from the ignition and yet hooking up to a trailer is as simple a process as shutting a door, how did it become such a drama?
newmercman:
A few years later air suspension came along and made the job even easier, you lined up, dropped the suspension, backed under the trailer a bit and then lifted the suspension until it picked up the trailer a bit and then went back until you hit the pin, this was much better, no need to ram under to compress steel springs, you could keep the front of the trailer clean from 5th wheel grease and that kept the suzies clean which was good.Then it all changed, somehow we all turned into idiots over night and drivers started smashing the back of the cab into the trailer by not using the air suspension correctly and drivers started jumping out of the cab without applying the handbrake and we had driverless lorries rolling around the yard killing people and knocking buildings down.
Now we have drivers jumping in and out of their cab like a jack in the box, checking this, checking that, turning off the engine and removing keys from the ignition and yet hooking up to a trailer is as simple a process as shutting a door, how did it become such a drama?
There’s a predictable pattern there.I think it goes along the lines of there was/is nothing wrong with the way we did it with steel suspension it wasn’t broke so why try to fix it.Bearing in mind you’ve left out the scenario of trailers getting dropped on the road because someone raised the air suspension with the jaws fouling the pin.
FFS, we have had this thread twice already in the last 6 months, and everyone disagreed with you on those CF…
So why haven’t you learnt?
And if I ran my trailer up the runners where I work, I’d probably get disciplined and retrained…
That’s if I’m not told to sling my limp!