Hi to all, as a fairly new o/d (10 months) i’ve been browsing this great forum for a while and only just got round to joining. Although i’ve been busier than I could have hoped for in my first year, during a recent quiet spell I had a bit of a look round and was offered some container work @ about £1.11 per mile. Never having done containers as an employee or an o/d I was shocked at how bad the rates were. I’d previously read a lot of the posts on here but I still can’t help but wonder if this is a pretty standard figure for boxes. I’ve struggled to get started and i’m out of the woods (for now) but i’ll be leaving her parked up rather than go and put miles on the clock for the sake of it. Anyone know if the rate is about right? And please, like I said, I have seen a lot of the posts and the QAMAAMB thing but I always thought that WAS a joke… 
Yeah, £1.15-£1.30 is about the standard rate for O/D’s on boxes. Complete waste of time tbh unless you are on direct to a shipping line or for a larger haulier who won’t have your pants down.
At £1.11 they’re having a laugh, even Maritime were paying £1.14 about a year ago before the hallowed 5 star deal for subbies, dunno what the rate is now, but bet it won’t stretch to QAMAnd two Mars bars.
You’d be better off parking her up when it’s quiet and going on the agency driving someone else’s motor or approaching local firms firect and offering to drive their wagons for slightly less than they are paying an agency. I get charged £15 p/h straight through by an egency to supply the odd driver.
Tell me your joking about £1.15 - £1.30ppm FFS 
if your lucky & your lorry does 8mpg which is a big “If” then at £1.11ppl which is my best fuel price this week, its going to cost you £0.63ppm in fuel alone. Please tell me my calculators wrong or I can’t do my sums 
Thanks Silver Surfer, I must admit I nearly ■■■■ a brick when I worked out the mileage for the job against the rate offered. I don’t think I could eat 2 mars bars at once so I probably will have to park her up for a bit. Got a steady enough bit of work booked for most of the spring and summer so i’m not panicking just yet, but that’s a helpful post, thanks
£1.11 a mile does seem a bit on the low side, even for containers! Last time I went looking for a bit of short-term work to cover an idle motor, I got offered around £1.20 to £1.25 a mile from various different box-shifters. I didn’t bother in the end but I could have made it pay at that assuming I could get the miles in.
To give some real world figures (something not many are willing to do on this site for some reason), assuming I can get a truck to cover 1750 revenue generating miles a week at an average 8 mpg then my break-even figure based on current fuel prices is £1.08 p/mile. At £1.11 a mile I would need the truck to cover 1636 miles to cover its costs. In reality they normally do a fair bit more than 8mpg, but I use 8 as a base figure as even the worst driver can normally achieve that over a week.
Is circa 1650 miles a week achieveable on box work over a standard 5-day week? I’ve never done boxes so wouldn’t know. 
Hi FH16, thanks for your thoughts. I’ve just spoken to another haulier about some dock trailer work out of Purfleet which although not great, is better than the boxes (from what i’ve seen). I’m fairly fortunate in that my break even figure is pretty low as I bought outright my unit from savings, which i’ve been unbelieveably lucky with (2001 ERF ECX11) so i’ve not got any real big truck finance repayments.
Only dark cloud on the horizon as a London haulier is the dreaded LEZ from Jan 2012, it looks as though some finance is imminent or about £6000 to get her up to Euro4. Only paid 8k for her!
So far, the opinion seems to be that £1.11 ppm is low, but I can only assume people are still doing it. Like I said earlier, i’ve been an o/d for only 10 months but at £1.11 a mile I doubt i’d last another 10!
MrHappy:
I’m fairly fortunate in that my break even figure is pretty low as I bought outright my unit from savings, which i’ve been unbelieveably lucky with (2001 ERF ECX11) so i’ve not got any real big truck finance repayments.
I too have lower overheads than most. I never buy a truck on finance, I would rather use retained profits to purchase any additional vehicles and make sure they are depreciated properly to cover the majority of the replacement costs as and when the time comes. I am always amazed at the number of O/D’s and small hauliers who genuinely have no idea what it actually costs them to run a truck! Most have an idea of what they ‘think’ is a good rate and then wait until the end of they year for the accountant to tell them whether they made a profit or not!
Also, I think it’s tragic the number of hauliers who don’t control their costs! eg:
Insurance: Do you really need European cover for Spain, Italy and most of the Balkan states when the furthest south your truck gets is Margate?
Maintenance: Why go for the expensive R+M package from the dealer? There is a reason they are selling these deals, it’s because the dealer wins more often than not! I run a small fleet of Merc Actroses and do the maintenance myself, I work on an expense accrual of £2500 a year for maintenance (averaged)per truck, but in reality it works out much less than that per year. A local O/D runs the same type of truck on the same work, but spends £150 a week in R+M costs!
MrHappy:
Only dark cloud on the horizon as a London haulier is the dreaded LEZ from Jan 2012, it looks as though some finance is imminent or about £6000 to get her up to Euro4. Only paid 8k for her!
I never send a truck within the M25, it’s just not worth the hassle for me. I’ve got a mix of Euro3 and Euro4 at the moment. I won’t be bothering with particulate filters for the Euro3 trucks given my lack of London work, and I would still buy another Euro3 truck if the price was right.
I want a lorry that does over 8mpg in fact get me 1 as a spare too please
Only dark cloud on the horizon as a London haulier is the dreaded LEZ from Jan 2012,
Do you think Boris will enforce this given the current work climate? I doubt anyone will need to go to London Village after Yon Olympics 
fly sheet:
I want a lorry that does over 8mpg in fact get me 1 as a spare too please
I think you’re going to struggle on your type of work (special-types isn’t it?). I’ll bet there are plenty of days when your outfit tares at more than mine when loaded! 
Still, unless you’re pulling seriously high trailers or tugging around odd-shaped kit with a low-loader then anyone who isn’t managing to average 8 to the gallon in this day and age really needs to look at why, and in my experience it’s normally because the driver is a trumpet!
Funny enough the Olympics site is the only place in London I refuse to deliver to. Doesn’t help that i’m now banned from it of course. 6 hrs waiting in a holding area 5 miles away while some Fascist health & safety pleb decides whether or not your goggles are ISO approved or whatever is not my idea of a good day out. Apart from having sniffer dogs in the cab and steering wheel etc swabbed for any traces of Werthers Originals. Biggest load of old ■■■■■■■■ i’ve ever seen.
Having said that I am considering moving my operating centre to outside the LEZ and swerving it altogether in the future, then I can just keep the old ERF going. She still do’s 8mpg at the moment, even with a fair bit of messing about in London and that old ■■■■■■■ takes some beating, i’ll almost be sorry if she has to go
FH16Globetrotter:
fly sheet:
I want a lorry that does over 8mpg in fact get me 1 as a spare too pleaseI think you’re going to struggle on your type of work (special-types isn’t it?). I’ll bet there are plenty of days when your outfit tares at more than mine when loaded!
Still, unless you’re pulling seriously high trailers or tugging around odd-shaped kit with a low-loader then anyone who isn’t managing to average 8 to the gallon in this day and age really needs to look at why, and in my experience it’s normally because the driver is a trumpet!
Your right I’m 21t empty FH16, I’m usually only up to 40t most days now though, its them little wheels & big ramps that kill the job. I got 7.4mpg last week though which is good for me, I did keep it to around 52mph & had plenty of empty running, had a 35t piece on 1 day though so fuel con would have took a hit that day.
FH16Globetrotter:
fly sheet:
I want a lorry that does over 8mpg in fact get me 1 as a spare too pleaseI think you’re going to struggle on your type of work (special-types isn’t it?). I’ll bet there are plenty of days when your outfit tares at more than mine when loaded!
Still, unless you’re pulling seriously high trailers or tugging around odd-shaped kit with a low-loader then anyone who isn’t managing to average 8 to the gallon in this day and age really needs to look at why, and in my experience it’s normally because the driver is a trumpet!
i think you ll stuggle to get 8mpg if your pulling a bulker around allday
sammy dog:
i think you ll stuggle to get 8mpg if your pulling a bulker around allday
Depends on the bulker in question, which type of roads you’re running on and how you drive it! I do the odd saturday job which consists of 2x 90-mile round trips pulling a 64-yard wilcox plank sider loaded with coal for a power station and bringing type-1 back from a nearby quarry, and I can get pushing on for 9 mpg in a 2546 Actros.
But of course it’s ME who pays for the diesel, and so I’m quite happy to trundle along at 45mph because I’m not running around like a suicidal maniac trying to squeeze that one last load in before home-time.
FH16Globetrotter:
sammy dog:
i think you ll stuggle to get 8mpg if your pulling a bulker around alldayDepends on the bulker in question, which type of roads you’re running on and how you drive it! I do the odd saturday job which consists of 2x 90-mile round trips pulling a 64-yard wilcox plank sider loaded with coal for a power station and bringing type-1 back from a nearby quarry, and I can get pushing on for 9 mpg in a 2546 Actros.
But of course it’s ME who pays for the diesel, and so I’m quite happy to trundle along at 45mph because I’m not running around like a suicidal maniac trying to squeeze that one last load in before home-time.
never managed 9mpg and i havent got lead foot but it is a scania 470.
sammy dog:
FH16Globetrotter:
sammy dog:
i think you ll stuggle to get 8mpg if your pulling a bulker around alldayDepends on the bulker in question, which type of roads you’re running on and how you drive it! I do the odd saturday job which consists of 2x 90-mile round trips pulling a 64-yard wilcox plank sider loaded with coal for a power station and bringing type-1 back from a nearby quarry, and I can get pushing on for 9 mpg in a 2546 Actros.
But of course it’s ME who pays for the diesel, and so I’m quite happy to trundle along at 45mph because I’m not running around like a suicidal maniac trying to squeeze that one last load in before home-time.
never managed 9mpg and i havent got lead foot but it is a scania 470.
We have a 2001 470 Scania in pulling a Freuhauf 68yd ‘bathtub’ bulker, it rarely runs more than 100 miles from base (usually closer to 60 miles) and that only does between 6 & 6.8mpg.
Ross.
sammy dog:
never managed 9mpg and i havent got lead foot but it is a scania 470.
bigr250:
We have a 2001 470 Scania in pulling a Freuhauf 68yd ‘bathtub’ bulker, it rarely runs more than 100 miles from base (usually closer to 60 miles) and that only does between 6 & 6.8mpg.Ross.
An therein lies the problem.
But seriously, I do everything I can to reduce fuel consumption, such as:
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No needless extra spotlights, bars, LED’s or illuminated michelin men in the airflow, or even mudflaps hanging from the bumpers!
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No supersingles on tractor units! I appreciate that they look better on some trucks, but they are just needlessly increasing the rolling resistance! Also, unless you need the midlift/tag to be down, lift it!
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Decent tyres! I ran Bridgestones for a while, then tried hankooks and now use nothing but Michelin Energy low rolling resistance. Yes, they might cost a bit more, but the fuel savings are plain to see after only a couple of weeks!
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Steam clean the curtains on the trailers when they need it. That grubby coating that gathers on them after a few months will hammer your fuel consumption. Run your hand along it and feel how rough it is and compare it to a smooth clean curtain - which one will the air find easier to pass over?
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Use the right trailer for the job - why run around with a 4.5m taut sticking up over the top of the cab when you only carrry pallets which are 5ft high? Stick to a 4m trailer unless you really need something bigger! Mine are 4m euro-spec and I’ve never had to refuse a load yet!
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None of this hammering along on the limiter nonsense! I’m quite happy to be on the cruise control at 50 on the motorway, and 40-50 most other times depending on road and conditions - they guys that drive for me need to be as well, if they aren’t I’ll direct them to the nearest Job-Centre and invite them to make full use of the services and facilities on offer there!
MrHappy:
I’m fairly fortunate in that my break even figure is pretty low as I bought outright my unit from savings, which i’ve been unbelieveably lucky with (2001 ERF ECX11) so i’ve not got any real big truck finance repayments.Only dark cloud on the horizon as a London haulier is the dreaded LEZ from Jan 2012, it looks as though some finance is imminent or about £6000 to get her up to Euro4. Only paid 8k for her!
Whilst you perhaps don’t have any finance payments to make now, you need to be putting money aside to replace the truck when the time comes. If you assume your 8k truck is going to last 2 years and that you have 48 working weeks in the year then you need to be putting aside around £85/week to cover the replacement, or a little more if you want something better/newer next time round.
This is a common mistake new ODs make. They buy the kit outright and then spend two or three years thinking “thank goodness I don’t have any finance payments” and then when they realise the kit is now worn out they suddenly realise they’ve no money to replace it and before they know it they’re getting finance for new kit…
Paul
repton:
If you assume your 8k truck is going to last 2 years and that you have 48 working weeks in the year then you need to be putting aside around £85/week to cover the replacement, or a little more if you want something better/newer next time round.
Sadly Paul it’s not quite as simple as that though.
You can’t ‘put away’ £85 a week, as the current corporate tax regime only allows you to depreciate a second-hand truck on a 20% reducing balance basis. Therefore, MrHappy’s 8k truck is still worth around £5200 after 2 years according to the tax-man, meaning he can only depreciate it by (on average over the 2 years) around £30 per working week. Any amount in excess of this is still classed as operating profit under accounting rules, and so would attract a tax liability.
This is where the idea of running cheap-as-chips kit starts to fall down a little, as inevitably when it comes time to replace the kit the depreciation allowance doesn’t come near to covering the replacement cost, hence you have to dip into your retained profits (assuming you have any) to fund the deficit. You will of course still have the retained value of the original asset though.
Thanks Repton & FH16 again, good points from both. While I see the point about starting out with cheap kit, (and with no offence taken ) I was one of those who always wanted to be an o/d but never really had the bottle to get going (kids, wife, bills etc) but I had the offer to buy from the guy I was working for my first unit, which I knew had been maintained impeccably, with the fall back that after 12 months he would buy it back and take me back on with it if it all went wrong. Knowing what I know now about being an o/d, there are times when i’ve almost gone back to him. He also gave some good advice financially about accruing for the day when the unit needs replacing and I have built this into my break even figure from day one so it won’t be a massive kick in the nuts when it comes, although I probably underestimated the effect that the LEZ would have on the 2nd hand Euro 4 market! Many thanks for all your pointers, FH16, you sure your not an accountant in disguise? 