Companies running old junk

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
141

newmercman:
Now then Carryfast, prepare to be educated.

Mechanically there is little to separate a Fuller and Ishift, both are constant mesh transmissions, the Ishift however makes perfectly timed shifts every time thanks to its communication with the engine, the Fuller stays where it is until the driver decides when to shift.

Some would say that it is that fact that proves their point, you are surely one of those, but so am I, you see it doesn’t matter what else is going on, Ishift will make the shift at exactly the right time, a driver can become distracted, he can get the hump with it after missing a gear and ram it in, he may just have the hump after a row with his wife and ram it in (ooo err missus) Ishift doesn’t.

Doesn’t that fit the description ‘I can see the attraction of an automated manual constant mesh box’. :confused:

While we also know that the ‘communication with the engine’ doesn’t at least seem to go as far as an input shaft and crankshaft interface to determine clutch slip while shunting.So obviously by no means flaw less and maybe one of the reasons why there are still people out there buying 18 speeds and telling the seller to keep the I shift at re sale time.

As for new agency drivers it’s the idea of the fear of driving any type of manual box which is the point.

Not the bs pointless argument between I shift v 13/18 speed.Which is as relevant now as it would have been in the early 1980’s if I shift was around then.IE the choice/arguments between drivers or buyers,over the preference between auto over manual or vice versa goes back to the invention of the auto box.Whether it’s an old car with a two or three or even four speed torque converter boat anchor v a muncie rock crusher or 5 speed ZF etc,or a new truck with an 18 speed Fuller v I shift.

142

robroy:

Evil8Beezle:
I’ve been asked to do a bit of stuff in an old ERF Olympic before

I also once .‘‘done a bit of stuff in an ERF’’
Think it was in the 80s on a night out in Northampton. :laughing:
Thank you very much.

Sent courtesy of my ‘70s man’ jokebook. :smiley:

:sunglasses:

Yeah but mine was so rough, I had to be asked! :laughing:

143

OVLOV JAY:
I’d get the hump if I had to fill out a paper tacho ever again :laughing:

Let’s just say if I had to drive anything with a digi tacho I’d probably still be in the yard looking blankly at it not having a clue when I should have been back finished.Blimey so there we have it the rules have made some drivers frightened to,or at best not want to,drive something with a proper gearbox in it and others frightened of modern day tachos. :open_mouth: :laughing:

144

Carryfast:
As for new agency drivers it’s the idea of the fear of driving any type of manual box which is the point.

FFS, I thought we’d been over this! :open_mouth:
:unamused: :unamused: :unamused:

145

Evil8Beezle:

Carryfast:
As for new agency drivers it’s the idea of the fear of driving any type of manual box which is the point.

FFS, I thought we’d been over this! :open_mouth:
:unamused: :unamused: :unamused:

No we’ve just got a different interpretation of what he said.

Let’s just say that the OP’s view wouldn’t exactly help the case of acceptance of potential ex pat Brit drivers in the rest of the English speaking world. :unamused:

146

Carryfast:

Evil8Beezle:

Carryfast:
As for new agency drivers it’s the idea of the fear of driving any type of manual box which is the point.

FFS, I thought we’d been over this! :open_mouth:
:unamused: :unamused: :unamused:

No we’ve just got a different interpretation of what he said.

Let’s just say that the OP’s view wouldn’t exactly help the case of acceptance of potential ex pat Brit drivers in the rest of the English speaking world. :unamused:

Don’t forget the fact that you ignore everything everyone else says, and you’re a fruit loop! :smiley:

147

Again Carryfast, prepare to be educated.

We are in a transition period, within a couple of years the gear stick will be consigned to the history books, everything will be automated, so for a brief time there will be a little confusion and a few ‘WTF is this thing sticking up out of the cab floor’ and “Why has this lorry got three pedals” posts, but those lorries will soon be enjoying a new life in warmer climes, so it’s only temporary.

Now I’m in a bit of a dilemma over the new technology, I like how it makes the job easier and enjoy using it, however I also have to pay to get it repaired when it goes wrong and while my enthusiasm for embracing new technology knows no bounds, my bank account definitely has a point that says NO!

That is my only issue with technology, it’s a complete pain in the ■■■■■■■■ when it goes wrong, mainly because I don’t know how to fix it and my tolerance for malfunctioning equipment is on the low side, so low that my tool of choice in such an instance is a hammer, but that is because I grew up with spanners and screwdrivers and not computers.

You could completely turn this argument around if you consider that us older lot are troubled by the new fangled stuff like Ishift, whereas the younger lads have the same fears over a manual gearbox, it doesn’t make either group right or wrong, it just shows how fast things have changed.

From Horse and Cart to internal combustion engines, steam to fuel oil, the same arguments have been argued throughout the years and they will continue to be argued with each new technology that appears on lorries. Your perspective on it all depends on what you grew up on.

In a few years these newbies that struggle with manual gearboxes will be posting things about how they much preferred a steering wheel to the controller fitted to the new Scania 8 series.

Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk

148

Evil8Beezle:

Carryfast:

Evil8Beezle:

Carryfast:
As for new agency drivers it’s the idea of the fear of driving any type of manual box which is the point.

FFS, I thought we’d been over this! :open_mouth:
:unamused: :unamused: :unamused:

No we’ve just got a different interpretation of what he said.

Let’s just say that the OP’s view wouldn’t exactly help the case of acceptance of potential ex pat Brit drivers in the rest of the English speaking world. :unamused:

Don’t forget the fact that you ignore everything everyone else says, and you’re a fruit loop! :smiley:

The OP seemed to be saying that he’d draw the line in the irrelevant anyway situation of being given a ‘crash box’ to drive.If I’m wrong then my apologies to the OP.As for the rest,if I’ve read it right,maybe it was a case of refuse to drive it.IE fifth wheel coupling seemed dodgy and at least possible transmission issues which could cause further damage to the trans. :bulb:

149

OVLOV JAY:
Now let’s all be honest. Who’d seriously want to return to old kit, be it a transmission or the whole truck. I could see a desire to have a manual over an arsetronic, but not much else. I wouldn’t want a Volvo manual box over my ishift, let alone a crash or twin. I can understand where newmercman is coming from, as that equipment is still bread and butter in the states. I’m sure it would be nice and nostalgic to jump in an EC10 on steel with a twin splitter, but I guarantee 90% of drivers wouldn’t last more than a couple of hours. Most of the technology of the past 20 years has helped the driver massively. I dare say we’d all be feeling the same as the op if we were handed the keys to an old bag of nails. I’d get the hump if I had to fill out a paper tacho ever again :laughing:

Yoo hoo, waves.

I’d go back in an instant, never really liked ERF’s but i’d have a Sed Ack 401 again tomorrow with a proper 14 litre ■■■■■■■ under the bonnet, or a 111/113 Scania with rear shock absorbers fitted, even a wendy house but with the 12 litre 380 lump at 38 ton max, and i’d give me eye teeth for a Scammell Crusader again, preferably with a day cab to make those awkward blind side reverses easier than own side.

See i prefer a vehicle thats simple and up to a days work without throwing up spurious warning lights or needing to wait for some half arsed sub standard gearbox, Arsetronic especially, to eventually do its poor thing, the Swedish synchro gearboxes were nothing to write home about, still arn’t, but Fullers, Eatons, even Spicers, once you’d got the hang of them it was like driving a Scalextric car with constant almost uninterrupted pulling power.

However the main reason i’d go back is that the more pure lorry driver skills that are required, yes including the lack of stability controls, the less replaceable with any old monkey (who didn’t really want to drive lorries but thought it might an easy £30k) off the production line you are.

You could take a pride in controlling a simple lorry, there is no lorry driving pride to be gained from attending a steering wheel whilst the vehicle does it all for you.
Dare say i’m in a tiny minority of a handful, each to their own, you did ask… :sunglasses:

150

Carryfast:

Evil8Beezle:

Carryfast:

Carryfast:
As for new agency drivers it’s the idea of the fear of driving any type of manual box which is the point.

No we’ve just got a different interpretation of what he said.

Let’s just say that the OP’s view wouldn’t exactly help the case of acceptance of potential ex pat Brit drivers in the rest of the English speaking world. :unamused:

Don’t forget the fact that you ignore everything everyone else says, and you’re a fruit loop! :smiley:

The OP seemed to be saying that he’d draw the line in the irrelevant anyway situation of being given a ‘crash box’ to drive.If I’m wrong then my apologies to the OP.As for the rest,if I’ve read it right,maybe it was a case of refuse to drive it.IE fifth wheel coupling seemed dodgy and at least possible transmission issues which could cause further damage to the trans. :bulb:

So not what you said here? :open_mouth:
Or the fact you’re jumping to conclusions about Newbies (or the OP) refusing to drive a crash box…
Or ANYTHING I’VE SAID!!! :unamused:

151

newmercman:
Again Carryfast, prepare to be educated.

We are in a transition period, within a couple of years the gear stick will be consigned to the history books, everything will be automated, so for a brief time there will be a little confusion and a few ‘WTF is this thing sticking up out of the cab floor’ and “Why has this lorry got three pedals” posts, but those lorries will soon be enjoying a new life in warmer climes, so it’s only temporary.

Now I’m in a bit of a dilemma over the new technology, I like how it makes the job easier and enjoy using it, however I also have to pay to get it repaired when it goes wrong and while my enthusiasm for embracing new technology knows no bounds, my bank account definitely has a point that says NO!

That is my only issue with technology, it’s a complete pain in the ■■■■■■■■ when it goes wrong, mainly because I don’t know how to fix it and my tolerance for malfunctioning equipment is on the low side, so low that my tool of choice in such an instance is a hammer, but that is because I grew up with spanners and screwdrivers and not computers.

You could completely turn this argument around if you consider that us older lot are troubled by the new fangled stuff like Ishift, whereas the younger lads have the same fears over a manual gearbox, it doesn’t make either group right or wrong, it just shows how fast things have changed.

From Horse and Cart to internal combustion engines, steam to fuel oil, the same arguments have been argued throughout the years and they will continue to be argued with each new technology that appears on lorries. Your perspective on it all depends on what you grew up on.

In a few years these newbies that struggle with manual gearboxes will be posting things about how they much preferred a steering wheel to the controller fitted to the new Scania 8 series.

That’s all fair enough and yes I’d agree progress causes all sorts of issues.But at the end of the day trucks aren’t star ships and don’t need to be and it’s the operators whether owner drivers or just owners who’ll be paying the bills for all this technology whether it’s needed or not.Personally I think the idea is more a case of creating a captive market for the manufacturers and approved dealership networks and big leasing fleet suppliers/operators than any real need for it all.While I’d guess that your reservations are well founded in that regard.Which just seems to make your arguments v mine even more contradictory when we probably agree on more concerning all this than disagree.In which I can foresee having a plan B,in at least keeping drivers up to speed with and happy to go back to the older technology,on the basis that it was never broke and didn’t need fixing,might actually turn out to be a smart move in the medium to longer term. :bulb:

152

There we have it. " trucks aren’t starships ". So what makes you think that newer drivers would struggle to adapt to these old type gearboxes any worse than older drivers did?

153

Juddian:

OVLOV JAY:
Now let’s all be honest. Who’d seriously want to return to old kit, be it a transmission or the whole truck. I could see a desire to have a manual over an arsetronic, but not much else. I wouldn’t want a Volvo manual box over my ishift, let alone a crash or twin. I can understand where newmercman is coming from, as that equipment is still bread and butter in the states. I’m sure it would be nice and nostalgic to jump in an EC10 on steel with a twin splitter, but I guarantee 90% of drivers wouldn’t last more than a couple of hours. Most of the technology of the past 20 years has helped the driver massively. I dare say we’d all be feeling the same as the op if we were handed the keys to an old bag of nails. I’d get the hump if I had to fill out a paper tacho ever again :laughing:

Yoo hoo, waves.

I’d go back in an instant, never really liked ERF’s but i’d have a Sed Ack 401 again tomorrow with a proper 14 litre ■■■■■■■ under the bonnet, or a 111/113 Scania with rear shock absorbers fitted, even a wendy house but with the 12 litre 380 lump at 38 ton max, and i’d give me eye teeth for a Scammell Crusader again, preferably with a day cab to make those awkward blind side reverses easier than own side.

See i prefer a vehicle thats simple and up to a days work without throwing up spurious warning lights or needing to wait for some half arsed sub standard gearbox, Arsetronic especially, to eventually do its poor thing, the Swedish synchro gearboxes were nothing to write home about, still arn’t, but Fullers, Eatons, even Spicers, once you’d got the hang of them it was like driving a Scalextric car with constant almost uninterrupted pulling power.

However the main reason i’d go back is that the more pure lorry driver skills that are required, yes including the lack of stability controls, the less replaceable with any old monkey (who didn’t really want to drive lorries but thought it might an easy £30k) off the production line you are.

You could take a pride in controlling a simple lorry, there is no lorry driving pride to be gained from attending a steering wheel whilst the vehicle does it all for you.
Dare say i’m in a tiny minority of a handful, each to their own, you did ask… :sunglasses:

Well you’d be in the 10% then. But fairs fair, you want simple just in a different form. You like more simple trucks without the tech, but I’ve gotten quite attached to a radio, power steering, electric windows, etc. Even a truck without air con and central locking is a ball ache by today’s standards. And it’s the safety aids that have made them less challenging to drive. Abs, pas, ebs and the like.

And you cheated anyway. You want a big engine sed ak, rear shocks on a 112 and limit the weight with a wendy house. We’re talking about yesterday’s bread and butter trucks in today’s world. That’s a wendy house at 44ton, and probably a 320, a boneshaker 112 or a sed ak with a lawnmower engine :wink: :laughing:

154

Old tech never breaks? Oh brother. I guess you missed the OP.

155

Carryfast:

newmercman:
Again Carryfast, prepare to be educated.

We are in a transition period, within a couple of years the gear stick will be consigned to the history books, everything will be automated, so for a brief time there will be a little confusion and a few ‘WTF is this thing sticking up out of the cab floor’ and “Why has this lorry got three pedals” posts, but those lorries will soon be enjoying a new life in warmer climes, so it’s only temporary.

Now I’m in a bit of a dilemma over the new technology, I like how it makes the job easier and enjoy using it, however I also have to pay to get it repaired when it goes wrong and while my enthusiasm for embracing new technology knows no bounds, my bank account definitely has a point that says NO!

That is my only issue with technology, it’s a complete pain in the ■■■■■■■■ when it goes wrong, mainly because I don’t know how to fix it and my tolerance for malfunctioning equipment is on the low side, so low that my tool of choice in such an instance is a hammer, but that is because I grew up with spanners and screwdrivers and not computers.

You could completely turn this argument around if you consider that us older lot are troubled by the new fangled stuff like Ishift, whereas the younger lads have the same fears over a manual gearbox, it doesn’t make either group right or wrong, it just shows how fast things have changed.

From Horse and Cart to internal combustion engines, steam to fuel oil, the same arguments have been argued throughout the years and they will continue to be argued with each new technology that appears on lorries. Your perspective on it all depends on what you grew up on.

In a few years these newbies that struggle with manual gearboxes will be posting things about how they much preferred a steering wheel to the controller fitted to the new Scania 8 series.

That’s all fair enough and yes I’d agree progress causes all sorts of issues.But at the end of the day trucks aren’t star ships and don’t need to be and it’s the operators whether owner drivers or just owners who’ll be paying the bills for all this technology whether it’s needed or not.Personally I think the idea is more a case of creating a captive market for the manufacturers and approved dealership networks and big leasing fleet suppliers/operators than any real need for it all.While I’d guess that your reservations are well founded in that regard.Which just seems to make your arguments v mine even more contradictory when we probably agree on more concerning all this than disagree.In which I can foresee having a plan B,in at least keeping drivers up to speed with and happy to go back to the older technology,on the basis that it was never broke and didn’t need fixing,might actually turn out to be a smart move in the medium to longer term. :bulb:

I absolutely agree with your captive audience theory, to a point and then I realise I’m missing the point.

Even here in the land of the million mile truck things have changed dramatically and many fleets are on a 3yr replacement cycle. To be fair a lot of the larger fleets always have been, but now even the smaller fleets are doing the same, but like everything, there are two sides to that argument too.

I could have bought an older truck for the same money that I used as a deposit on a brand new truck, but instead of a monthly truck payment I would’ve had to spend the same figure on maintaining the older truck and putting extra fuel in the tanks and I would’ve had less to deduct from my earnings for tax purposes, which when figured out on one of those new fangled adding machines, would mean less wedge in my sky rocket.

It annoys me that because of legislation and the constant evolution and progression made in technology that I have to change my trucks every few years.

Now read that last paragraph again.

How stupid does it sound, I’m basically saying that I would prefer to drive and own a worn out, less efficient piece of equipment than a nice new efficient truck.

It may have more upfront costs, but over a three year period including trading it in against another new truck, it will earn me more money and driving it will be an easier and more pleasant experience.

Why on earth would I want to do anything other than run new trucks on a three year replacement cycle.

Work smarter, not harder, that’s my philosophy.

Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk

156

And nmm raises an often missed point. Mpg between old and new. Even with fuel prices as they currently are, which boss would go back to 6-7 mpg trucks when the biggest lead footer will get 9-10 from an man or merc these days. When Mr Vain bought his new truck, he raised the point that the difference in mpg virtually covered his monthly payments :bulb:

157

Juddian:
I’d go back in an instant, never really liked ERF’s but i’d have a Sed Ack 401 again tomorrow with a proper 14 litre ■■■■■■■ under the bonnet, or a 111/113 Scania with rear shock absorbers fitted, even a wendy house but with the 12 litre 380 lump at 38 ton max, and i’d give me eye teeth for a Scammell Crusader again, preferably with a day cab to make those awkward blind side reverses easier than own side.

See i prefer a vehicle thats simple and up to a days work without throwing up spurious warning lights or needing to wait for some half arsed sub standard gearbox, Arsetronic especially, to eventually do its poor thing, the Swedish synchro gearboxes were nothing to write home about, still arn’t, but Fullers, Eatons, even Spicers, once you’d got the hang of them it was like driving a Scalextric car with constant almost uninterrupted pulling power.

However the main reason i’d go back is that the more pure lorry driver skills that are required, yes including the lack of stability controls, the less replaceable with any old monkey (who didn’t really want to drive lorries but thought it might an easy £30k) off the production line you are.

You could take a pride in controlling a simple lorry, there is no lorry driving pride to be gained from attending a steering wheel whilst the vehicle does it all for you.
Dare say i’m in a tiny minority of a handful, each to their own, you did ask… :sunglasses:

One of the rare occasions that I disagree with you here Juddian :smiley:
Like you I have had nearly every gearbox you can think of in a truck.
I was also a Sed Atk 400 and 401 fan, I owned about 4 of them and drove about 3 others all different combinations of drivelines.
I admit I would like to get in one again and see if I still had the knack of flicking through a 13 speed as smooth as silk as I used to, but to go back on one daily and away all week?..no chance mate.

I take on board what you say about the need for virtually no skills in driving a truck, and the fact that absolutely anybody can now, and the negativity that has resulted from this, such as a lot of ■■■■ poor drivers on the road now, but it also has it’s positive points. The job is much easier, more pleasant, less stressful, in terms of comfort, as it is just like driving a longer car. The electronics are a ball ache, but I aint paying for all the problems anymore, so I just accept it.
I dont really care if many drivers are crap at their jobs, (thankfully they aint in the majority…yet) I just sit and watch them with a mixture of disgust and amusement, safe in the knowlege that I am well capable of doing my own.

It’s a bit like wanting to swap your brand new top range Focus for a Mk 2 ■■■■■■, chalk and cheese.

158

Two sides to every argument.

Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk

159

It’s funny how people seem to think trucks of yesteryear were super reliable and today’s break down all the time when in actual fact the roles are reversed, trucks have never been more reliable. For a good 20+ years now people have been saying ‘you wait till all this modern stuff gets old and breaks down’, except it didn’t and doesn’t. We have 10 year old iShift Volvos doing double shifts that don’t and have never missed a beat. My Dad was a mobile truck mechanic when I was a kid in the 80s, I hardly ever saw him as he went from one breakdown to another doing crazy things like changing gearboxes and clutches on the side of the road.

160

robroy:

Juddian:
I’d go back in an instant, never really liked ERF’s but i’d have a Sed Ack 401 again tomorrow with a proper 14 litre ■■■■■■■ under the bonnet, or a 111/113 Scania with rear shock absorbers fitted, even a wendy house but with the 12 litre 380 lump at 38 ton max, and i’d give me eye teeth for a Scammell Crusader again, preferably with a day cab to make those awkward blind side reverses easier than own side.

See i prefer a vehicle thats simple and up to a days work without throwing up spurious warning lights or needing to wait for some half arsed sub standard gearbox, Arsetronic especially, to eventually do its poor thing, the Swedish synchro gearboxes were nothing to write home about, still arn’t, but Fullers, Eatons, even Spicers, once you’d got the hang of them it was like driving a Scalextric car with constant almost uninterrupted pulling power.

However the main reason i’d go back is that the more pure lorry driver skills that are required, yes including the lack of stability controls, the less replaceable with any old monkey (who didn’t really want to drive lorries but thought it might an easy £30k) off the production line you are.

You could take a pride in controlling a simple lorry, there is no lorry driving pride to be gained from attending a steering wheel whilst the vehicle does it all for you.
Dare say i’m in a tiny minority of a handful, each to their own, you did ask… :sunglasses:

One of the rare occasions that I disagree with you here Juddian :smiley:
Like you I have had nearly every gearbox you can think of in a truck.
I was also a Sed Atk 400 and 401 fan, I owned about 4 of them and drove about 3 others all different combinations of drivelines.
I admit I would like to get in one again and see if I still had the knack of flicking through a 13 speed as smooth as silk as I used to, but to go back on one daily and away all week?..no chance mate.

I take on board what you say about the need for virtually no skills in driving a truck, and the fact that absolutely anybody can now, and the negativity that has resulted from this, such as a lot of ■■■■ poor drivers on the road now, but it also has it’s positive points. The job is much easier, more pleasant, less stressful, in terms of comfort, as it is just like driving a longer car. The electronics are a ball ache, but I aint paying for all the problems anymore, so I just accept it.
I dont really care if many drivers are crap at their jobs, (thankfully they aint in the majority…yet) I just sit and watch them with a mixture of disgust and amusement, safe in the knowlege that I am well capable of doing my own.

It’s a bit like wanting to swap your brand new top range Focus for a Mk 2 ■■■■■■, chalk and cheese.

Nail. On. Head.