malcolmgbell:
dozy:
Ha ha ha after 3 yrs the best deal the brexit bright
Sparks can come up with is worse than the deal
We already had
How ZB embarrassed must those 17m be ,
Art 50 should be revoked nowY would we be embarrassed?
Mainly IMO because this deal (unlike the May deal) doesn’t stick to EU levels of employee rights as a minimum requirement but opts out. Like anyone thought those Eton boys were going to stick up for workers anyway…
Darkside:
malcolmgbell:
dozy:
Ha ha ha after 3 yrs the best deal the brexit bright
Sparks can come up with is worse than the deal
We already had
How ZB embarrassed must those 17m be ,
Art 50 should be revoked nowY would we be embarrassed?
Mainly IMO because this deal (unlike the May deal) doesn’t stick to EU levels of employee rights as a minimum requirement but opts out. Like anyone thought those Eton boys were going to stick up for workers anyway…
but 17.4 million of use did not hash that together did we
malcolmgbell:
Darkside:
malcolmgbell:
dozy:
Ha ha ha after 3 yrs the best deal the brexit bright
Sparks can come up with is worse than the deal
We already had
How ZB embarrassed must those 17m be ,
Art 50 should be revoked nowY would we be embarrassed?
Mainly IMO because this deal (unlike the May deal) doesn’t stick to EU levels of employee rights as a minimum requirement but opts out. Like anyone thought those Eton boys were going to stick up for workers anyway…
but 17.4 million of use did not hash that together did we
I think you have won ‘Post of the Year’ with that response…
idrive:
malcolmgbell:
dozy:
Ha ha ha after 3 yrs the best deal the brexit bright
Sparks can come up with is worse than the deal
We already had
How ZB embarrassed must those 17m be ,
Art 50 should be revoked nowY would we be embarrassed?
Embarrassed that morons like this are allowed to vote.
So Boris has attempted to shaft us in name only.
Looks like DUP will scupper it so prepare for further endless delays and the inevitable 2nd referendum.
I have the sneaky feeling yet another tory stitch up (shocked am i 
) is looming large, even if the DUP reject it, it’s entirely possible labour as well as the tory traitors will support it because its not a leave deal, its a slightly polished turd of a surrender document, the sort a vanquished state might sign after a war, so an ideal agreement for the fifth column which comprise too much of our establishment.
I live in increasingly vain hope all of this is eyewash designed to keep the click ticking up to the 31st when the ticking stops and we’ve simply left by default, won’t be holding me breath mind.
malcolmgbell:
Darkside:
malcolmgbell:
dozy:
Ha ha ha after 3 yrs the best deal the brexit bright
Sparks can come up with is worse than the deal
We already had
How ZB embarrassed must those 17m be ,
Art 50 should be revoked nowY would we be embarrassed?
Mainly IMO because this deal (unlike the May deal) doesn’t stick to EU levels of employee rights as a minimum requirement but opts out. Like anyone thought those Eton boys were going to stick up for workers anyway…
but 17.4 million of use did not hash that together did we
Absolutely true.
You were promised an easy exit and a bright future.
“All upsides” etc.
What is on the table starts with a £2k loss…
Time to say whether or not we are happy to accept this real (not imaginary) deal?
Juddian:
I have the sneaky feeling yet another tory stitch up (shocked am iI live in increasingly vain hope all of this is eyewash designed to keep the click ticking up to the 31st when the ticking stops and we’ve simply left by default, won’t be holding me breath mind.
I fear you are right.
I had just got my head around voting Tory for the first time, was quite looking forward to it.
Juddian:
its a slightly polished turd of a surrender document, the sort a vanquished state might sign after a war
And we all know what happened the last time that happened in Europe.
Well done Oliver & also the 1.5 million who marched for
A People’s vote
ezydriver:
Juddian:
its a slightly polished turd of a surrender document, the sort a vanquished state might sign after a warAnd we all know what happened the last time that happened in Europe.
Aye, germany ended up ruling europe by economic bullying instead of the usual tanks and bombs.
There always was a Rothschild viper lurking in the long grass in the form of Letwin,just biding its time for the requisite 
venom injection.Brilliant manoeuvre though.
ezydriver:
Juddian:
its a slightly polished turd of a surrender document, the sort a vanquished state might sign after a warAnd we all know what happened the last time that happened in Europe.
Indeed. The usual old flannel argument one hears is “The treaty of versailles humiliation for Germany following the Armistice - led directly to the rise of Hitler in German Politics.”
Lefties like to pretend that Nigel Farage is somehow this “New Age Hitler” despite him having no racist/fascist record, and a Right-wing-■■■-centerist stance rather than the Far Left reality of the ■■■■ Regime.
The worst part of all this “Everyone right of Karl Marx is Hitler” argument - is that Hitler was an extreme lefist comparable to someone like Max Robespierre from 1789 France rather than the Right Wing British Stiff-upper-lip Empire, that ended up bringing him and Germany to utter ruin.
Thus, we end up running away from Brexit (because it’s a Right-Wing Wish List, according to the Lefties) we run away from “Patriotism” (because that’s “Nationalism”, again associated with Hitler, who was only a pretend Nationalist to get the Right voters on board…) and we run away from Faith, where only Christ spoke of “Forgiving and being nice to one’s enemies” as we’re constantly being brow-beaten into doing after every bomb attack… There’s more than just the two political factions at play here: If one WERE to boil it down to “just two” - then Brexit is really about the “Happy, looked-after by the Establishment” crowd (Remainers) vs the “Got left behind, sick of paying taxes they cannot get out of” Brexiteer crowd. I suspect that “Left and Right” don’t come into it - unless you are a Tory Fund Manager or Labour Champagne Socialist.
How much does the average trucker get out of Remaining - or Leaving?
Dunno. Ask a thousand drivers - and you’d probably get a thousand different reasons as “answers”. Overall, those answers would probably have around a 52/48 leaning to them, just as the national average would suggest… OR DO THEY?
Perhaps a poll on here could be set up by the Moderators:
Which Brexit deal do you REALLY want?
(1) NO Brexit under any circumstances (as parliament are engineering for as we speak)
(2) Theresa May’s Soft Brexit (rejected three times by Parliament)
(3) Boris Johnson’s Soft Brexit (rejected for the first time today by Parliament)
(4) Nigel Farage’s Hard Brexit (Never given to us as an option, but hinted at by the simplicity of the original referendum pledges)
“Don’t Know” - there’s no point in having as an option of course.
If anyone has got a (5) option that is significantly different from the other four - then POST it… “Now’s the time”… 
Here’s the REAL problem with our “deadlocked” parliament…
It ain’t our fault for voting one way or the other. It was always THEIRS for making promises they had no intention of keeping, the main promise “not to do with Brexit” - but rather that they would “serve the constituents that elected them.” Fully 75%+ of MPs - clearly had and have no intention of keeping that pledge - ever, it seems.
Dup now for a 2 nd referendum , John McDonald
, Emily thorn berry , Keir stammer all saying labour
Are now a remain party
All seeing sense
I know Pantomime season is nearly upon us , but that Pantomime yesterday in the house of Commons was the best yet.
Winseer:
ezydriver:
Juddian:
It ain’t our fault for voting one way or the other. It was always THEIRS for making promises they had no intention of keeping, the main promise “not to do with Brexit” - but rather that they would “serve the constituents that elected them.” Fully 75%+ of MPs - clearly had and have no intention of keeping that pledge - ever, it seems.
In some ways i disagree with you, it was our fault as an electorate, because just as the present cabal of treacherous MPs are doing everything they can to protect their own, and that of their master’s, interests and to hell with common decency honour and the greater good.
For too long too many of the electorate have done exactly the same, they voted for their own personal gain and to hell with the greater, ie the nation’s, good.
Whats in it for me, the weakness of the unthinking human being, cheaply bought with trinkets and easily led by the nose.
The only people responsible for the current rabble in parliament are the electorate, it was they who swallowed every word spoken and written by the bought and paid for MSM as gospel, couldn’t be arsed to think for themselves just sheep following the herd doing whatever that tribal herd instinct had them do.
If you take a hyena in don’t be surprised when it bites you with its diseased dripping teeth.
Did the betrayals of Heath, Thatcher (yes for years she was a europhile and campaign to join up), Major, Blair (three wins, Jesus wept what were we thinking), Brown and finally Cameron (and that creepy little sockpuppet Clegg) not tell the electorate anything at all, that these people and their fellow MPs will all betray you, that’s what they do, but no they then trusted May the worse Home Secretary in living memory as being the leading star in the tory party to lead the country to freedom …we’ll know what Johnson is at 11 pm on 31st October, i suspect we already know.
An electorate has a nasty habit of ending up with the govt it deserves, i hope and pray they’ve learned their lesson this time, but even as we are at the edge of a momentous time so many can only see the personal short term costs vested interests tell them will come their way and are prepared for their heroes to do anything to keep their pockets bulging.
Maybe we do have the govt the country deserves after all, quite why we insist on taking instructions on how to behave what to think how to fiddle expenses who to vote for etc from those creatures in the two Houses and their media chums i have no idea, have people lost all common sense and common decency we were once raised with, the ability to see a rotter even if he is sporting a Saville Row bespoke suit and a club tie (polished turds again), we do not have to follow them sheep like, for goodness sake people stop following the false or is personal mammon the only god now able to be found.
I can see where you’re coming from there. “We get what we deserve” - because in all the general elections that come before, in truth “The public didn’t know what they were voting for” - but merely thought they did.
“I’ll make your life better” (99.9% of the time, you might get a little upside to your life, but with a whole load of downside stuff that didn’t even get hinted at in the election campaign for the candidate you ended up supporting)
“I don’t vote - they are all useless to me.” or “None of the above” - which is actually consent to the incumbents carrying on the way they do, without punishment.
The thing that has changed as recently as since the 2017 election - is that the public are more plugged-into politics these days more so than they’ve ever been.
Most people have Iphones. Most people can’t type and have no clue how to code.
That means you’ve got an awful large number of people that’ll read stuff - but don’t write it.
A “diode” of such opinions - can only lead to one thing:
On-line politics being truly weaponized in a way that someone like Rudolf Hess could only dream of!
We’re all poltiicians these days.
Is someone like me, who can type fast, use big words, and actually has some legacy science training “more powerful in that capacity” than someone who reads all the blurb, but doesn’t respond to it, except by taking to the streets with their Iphones? - Hell yes!!
My arch-enemy in the world - isn’t some hapless Labour, Conservative, or Libdem voters, Europhile or not.
It is always going to be someone who is my peer - but chooses to use their knowhow, wisdom, philosophy, and (most of all) technical training - against everything in my entire world.
“Pick a side” - isn’t about Left and Right for me. It is about the Unproven Truth Tellers vs the Unable to disprove Liars. Two weaponized factions that so far to date - have managed to fool well over half of us into picking a side that actually didn’t exist - until someone conjured it up to fill a “Belief vacuum”, so empty are the vast majority of people’s lives these days, outside of work…
“Brexit” - is just the tip of the iceberg in all this.
The real trouble starts with things like “Social Scoring”, “Deletable Money”, and we’re already seeing signs of “monetized thuggery” which nicely gets around the laws that forbid “raising a private army”.
If YOUR boss told you that you’ll be “let go” in the upcoming round of redundancies - unless you attend one of these militant marches in London for example (either side, doesn’t matter which) then would you deliberately not comply - or act out of fear for your livlihood and “do as you’re told”…?
History - is littered with those who tried, and failed to harness the mob mentality, Julius Caesar and Max Robespierre being the two that spring to mind. Both rabble-raisers, both responsible for the deaths of many in the name of “politics”, and both eventually falling victim to their very own political machine.
Gaining control of a mob - is the easy part. “Not dying after” - is the HARD bit.
Winseer:
ezydriver:
Juddian:
its a slightly polished turd of a surrender document, the sort a vanquished state might sign after a warAnd we all know what happened the last time that happened in Europe.
Indeed. The usual old flannel argument one hears is “The treaty of versailles humiliation for Germany following the Armistice - led directly to the rise of Hitler in German Politics.”
Lefties like to pretend that Nigel Farage is somehow this “New Age Hitler” despite him having no racist/fascist record, and a Right-wing-■■■-centerist stance rather than the Far Left reality of the ■■■■ Regime.
The worst part of all this “Everyone right of Karl Marx is Hitler” argument - is that Hitler was an extreme lefist comparable to someone like Max Robespierre from 1789 France rather than the Right Wing British Stiff-upper-lip Empire, that ended up bringing him and Germany to utter ruin.
Thus, we end up running away from Brexit (because it’s a Right-Wing Wish List, according to the Lefties) we run away from “Patriotism” (because that’s “Nationalism”, again associated with Hitler, who was only a pretend Nationalist to get the Right voters on board…) and we run away from Faith, where only Christ spoke of “Forgiving and being nice to one’s enemies” as we’re constantly being brow-beaten into doing after every bomb attack… There’s more than just the two political factions at play here: If one WERE to boil it down to “just two” - then Brexit is really about the “Happy, looked-after by the Establishment” crowd (Remainers) vs the “Got left behind, sick of paying taxes they cannot get out of” Brexiteer crowd. I suspect that “Left and Right” don’t come into it - unless you are a Tory Fund Manager or Labour Champagne Socialist.
How much does the average trucker get out of Remaining - or Leaving?
Dunno. Ask a thousand drivers - and you’d probably get a thousand different reasons as “answers”. Overall, those answers would probably have around a 52/48 leaning to them, just as the national average would suggest… OR DO THEY?
Perhaps a poll on here could be set up by the Moderators:
Which Brexit deal do you REALLY want?
(1) NO Brexit under any circumstances (as parliament are engineering for as we speak)
(2) Theresa May’s Soft Brexit (rejected three times by Parliament)
(3) Boris Johnson’s Soft Brexit (rejected for the first time today by Parliament)
(4) Nigel Farage’s Hard Brexit (Never given to us as an option, but hinted at by the simplicity of the original referendum pledges)3
2
1
“Don’t Know” - there’s no point in having as an option of course.
If anyone has got a (5) option that is significantly different from the other four - then POST it… “Now’s the time”…Here’s the REAL problem with our “deadlocked” parliament…
0It ain’t our fault for voting one way or the other. It was always THEIRS for making promises they had no intention of keeping, the main promise “not to do with Brexit” - but rather that they would “serve the constituents that elected them.” Fully 75%+ of MPs - clearly had and have no intention of keeping that pledge - ever, it seems.
Totally agree,Left/Right,two wings attached to the same oldd dirty bird.Why the concept exists baffles me,everyone should know by now,socialism/capitalism are just divisive mechanisms to keep the bloodlines safe from the masses who they plan on diminishing most likely through the next war they’re desperately agitating for at the behest of their Israeli overlords.
There are powers in the world that are “Imperial” but not “Deep State”, vice-versa, and now we have those who are very much both.
I’m not actually worried about Britain or Israel, because Britain no longer has an Empire, and Israel NEVER had one.
I’m worried about China rather than America or Russia on the other hand: China practically Invented “Deep State” politics, along with the world’s first Banking System, their entire Army of foreign delegates and diplomats, and massive defence force that actually lives up to the name: Defending the homeland and assuring against invasion WITHOUT being tempted to go rampaging wars of conquest all the time, using their “looking inward” policies to avoid making the same mistakes of the world’s active warmonger states.
The mistake America made at the end of WWII was to “liberate” the Western European nations even though they must have known in advance that Stalin’s Russia had no intention of acting the same in EASTERN Europe.
If America had instead "installed their ally, the British Empire as caretaker administration in a more “Churchillian” United States of Europe - run by BRITAIN…
We wouldn’t be where we are now.
We’d still have a European Parliament, where all excercises are carried out in the English Language, that cut & Pasted plenty of UK civil laws…
BUT it wouldn’t have been this Liberal Left version where we’re obliged to pay a fortune IN to uphold those basket case economies that are only where THEY are - because of failed political systems, including “too much power to militant unions” in those countries in question.
A British-run United States of Europe - would also have “softened” the Right-Wing wider British Empire as it was at that time as well…
Those parts of the British Empire that did best after their own declarations of independence - all had English as a common language there. India - now the highest-population democracy on the planet.
But Rhodesia? Some countries ended up leaving before they were ready to “go it alone”.
Scotland - seems intent on making a similar mistake, as how can their own home economy flourish should they one day “leave” the UK, whilst trying hard to keep the rest of the UK in the EU?
Northern Ireland too - is too close to call, and perhaps the best way to continue there would be to execute a hard brexit WITH Northern Ireland in tow - but with Ulster having the right to cede themselves to Eire at any point - once Eire leaves the EU at some stage in the future, either because they hold their own “Exit” plans - or because the EU has collapsed meanwhile, forcing all former member states to “go it alone” again, like before the Eurocurrency came in.
I, for one - don’t have anything against NI unifying with an INDEPENDENT Irish Republic. Seems like a better solution long-term than the “Surrender to the IRA” Good Friday Agreement, - that’s for sure!!
Winseer:
There are powers in the world that are “Imperial” but not “Deep State”, vice-versa, and now we have those who are very much both.I’m not actually worried about Britain or Israel, because Britain no longer has an Empire, and Israel NEVER had one.
I’m worried about China rather than America or Russia on the other hand: China practically Invented “Deep State” politics, along with the world’s first Banking System, their entire Army of foreign delegates and diplomats, and massive defence force that actually lives up to the name: Defending the homeland and assuring against invasion WITHOUT being tempted to go rampaging wars of conquest all the time, using their “looking inward” policies to avoid making the same mistakes of the world’s active warmonger states.
The mistake America made at the end of WWII was to “liberate” the Western European nations even though they must have known in advance that Stalin’s Russia had no intention of acting the same in EASTERN Europe.
If America had instead "installed their ally, the British Empire as caretaker administration in a more “Churchillian” United States of Europe - run by BRITAIN…
We wouldn’t be where we are now.
We’d still have a European Parliament, where all excercises are carried out in the English Language, that cut & Pasted plenty of UK civil laws…
BUT it wouldn’t have been this Liberal Left version where we’re obliged to pay a fortune IN to uphold those basket case economies that are only where THEY are - because of failed political systems, including “too much power to militant unions” in those countries in question.
A British-run United States of Europe - would also have “softened” the Right-Wing wider British Empire as it was at that time as well…
Those parts of the British Empire that did best after their own declarations of independence - all had English as a common language there. India - now the highest-population democracy on the planet.
But Rhodesia? Some countries ended up leaving before they were ready to “go it alone”.
Scotland - seems intent on making a similar mistake, as how can their own home economy flourish should they one day “leave” the UK, whilst trying hard to keep the rest of the UK in the EU?
Northern Ireland too - is too close to call, and perhaps the best way to continue there would be to execute a hard brexit WITH Northern Ireland in tow - but with Ulster having the right to cede themselves to Eire at any point - once Eire leaves the EU at some stage in the future, either because they hold their own “Exit” plans - or because the EU has collapsed meanwhile, forcing all former member states to “go it alone” again, like before the Eurocurrency came in.
I, for one - don’t have anything against NI unifying with an INDEPENDENT Irish Republic. Seems like a better solution long-term than the “Surrender to the IRA” Good Friday Agreement, - that’s for sure!!
I wonder if there’s a distinct difference twix Chinese banking and the architects of…("all this dosh languishing in our vaults left entrusted to us,hey! why don’t we write a few receipts and…y,know just lend em out,as long as there’s just enough in should everyone suddenly need what our vaults protect?)…ie the origins of Fractional Reserve lending,long since enhanced,yet forming one of the principal bulwarks of control over us, courtesy of usury? considering the Palmerston led Opium wars employing the ‘Honourable’ British East India Co to basically turn China into a junkie-colony.Not a big fan of China myself but compared to US/ C.I.A covert imperialism over the decades,including current starvation policies regarding Venuzuala etc,i can understand the current oriental M/O 
Appropo The British Empire keeping the pesky septics to heel,is it not true that Roosevelt only came to 'our aid ’ with the intentions of destroying the British Empire in favour of the dollars ascendency by seizing valuable real estate such as shipping ports etc,in return for a few rusty defunct frigates.T/R it seems was the blackmailed patsy employed by Baruch et-al to destroy a worryingly resurgent Germany led by a meglamaniac,alcoholic W/C from blighty who admitted at the end of his life that the war shouldn’t have happened and Hitlers entreaties to that effect,ie admiring the B/E ,with whom he offered resources to that end,were kept under wraps.
I believe the real story of ww2 is hokum,more likely a bloodletting/land grab by the usual suspects.I don’t even believe A/H was the prime mover of policy either,more likely Illuminati place man,Martin Borman and his Krupps paymasters.
The British Empire is all but gone, and now the whole world seems to plan the same for the “American Empire”…
Empty Bank Vaults, Fiat Currency Reserves, and the value of a worker based upon “what they can do” instead of “how much their property is worth”.
Look at our university campus populations these days and you’ll see:-
“White Brits doing predominantly useless subjects”
“Foreign/Ethnic/Multicultural Students - studying decent subjects where you actually get a well-paid career of DOING STUFF at the end of it.”
The balance of power is about to flip from Western Civilization to Eastern Powerhouse.
Get your hands on a decent trade, lanthenide stockpiles instead of so-called “Precious” things, and of course “A workforce of highly trained, capable personnel”.
“Those who don’t learn the lessons of History - will end up being destroyed by the future”.
