Brexit

Winseer:
Empty Bank Vaults, Fiat Currency Reserves, and the value of a worker based upon “what they can do” instead of “how much their property is worth”.

No it’s actually all about how much equity is in it not if the remaining mortgage is still 80% of the value.

Good luck with your plan when you’re close to retirement age let alone retired with £1,500 pm rent in outgoings.

Let alone the idea that those of working age can do that in an economy based on clerical,restaurant or bar work or warehousing to pay for German manufacturing imports.Competing with East Euro labour for what’s there.

manalishi:
I don’t even believe A/H was the prime mover of policy either,more likely,Martin Borman and his Krupps paymasters.

^
That’s interesting.Which must have meant that they were onside with the destruction of Germany which followed in the knowledge of the pre arranged post war deal with the US to follow.Which as we know was massively in Germany’s favour above all other players including us.On that note I’ve always viewed US Federalism as one of the great evils even on its own turf not a force for good.With the EU just being an alliance of German and US Federalism with the aim of creating a USE in the US image by Federal German proxy.Here we are with the 4th Reich having infiltrated our own government from Head of State level down.But don’t buy the Israel link bollox.Churchill being no friend of Israel’s.As any Brit conscript unfortunately shamefully sent to Palestine from Italy in 1945 to turn their guns from the Germans onto Jewish refugees trying to build a homeland for themselves would have known.

telegraph.co.uk/history/worl … chill.html

Carryfast:

Winseer:
Empty Bank Vaults, Fiat Currency Reserves, and the value of a worker based upon “what they can do” instead of “how much their property is worth”.

No it’s actually all about how much equity is in it not if the remaining mortgage is still 80% of the value.

Good luck with your plan when you’re close to retirement age let alone retired with £1,500 pm rent in outgoings.

Let alone the idea that those of working age can do that in an economy based on clerical,restaurant or bar work or warehousing to pay for German manufacturing imports.Competing with East Euro labour for what’s there.

Possession is nine-tenths of the law. If Banks go bust because millions of their own mortgage borrowers decide to squat in the houses they’ve lived in for years and years, and the bank only has vaults empty of actual assets (Precious Metals, rather than paper investments) - then no amount of fiat cash is going to motivate the army of “Repo People” that’ll be required to “go get those secured property assets back” from the people currently squatting in them. It is a side of “leaving, but not leaving the EU” that’ll come back to haunt the banks even more than the very hardest of Brexits…! In truth, the worst the Banks thought would happen to them is a future defaulting Socialist government that has borrowed too much money from them in the meantime (as they all do, of course…)

We don’t yet have a socialist government, but instead a Tory one that thinks paying back debts to foreign powers only too happy to default their debts to the UK - is more important than looking after their own people.
As I’ve said before - I’m very left-wing on “Finance”.

I would have liked to see a Hard Brexit, followed by the biggest magic money tree of the Brexit Dividend being available to whatever government then chose to actually go and SPEND that windfall.

The Tories cannot be trusted to spend money, large, - even when they have it. Look at the way Merkel’s CDU has been running Germany in SURPLUS for YEARS - and yet the German People suffer a fair amount of unnecessary “austerity” themselves.

A Hard Brexit, followed by a Corbyn Government - would have all the means at it’s disposal to re-nationalize Euro-controlled utilities for a quid a pop for starters. What are the EU going to do about it?

A tipping point is rapidly approaching. If Farage and his Brexit party don’t end up in power at the next election, then Corbyn’s left wing revolution will likely become unstoppable - especially once Brexit gets overturned, as seems likely via a railroaded 2nd referendum before long… :slight_smile:

If Boris delivers No Deal - then this can all be averted. It doesn’t look like he’s even INTERESTED in “No Deal” though, any more than he lacks any interest in going into coalition with Farage.

What happens if the Tories lose enough seats to be neck-and-neck with Labour’s seat tally - with Brexit Party making up the difference?

Because Boris has been so negative about Farage throughout - there’s a chance that Corbyn might bung Farage a solid coalition agreement (like making Farage his chancellor over McDonnell) that sees a Brexit Party/Labour coalition INSTEAD that would then keep the UK together, as the coalition does NOT involve the SNP.

It is really all about how many seats Brexit Party can win. “Zero Seats” means we end up very much with the same parliament we have right NOW. “Going nowhere, fast, forever.”

Remainers - should vote with their party. Brexiteers - need to vote Brexit Party, which will likely cause some Tory Remainers to lose their seats. Big deal! As long as Brexit Party wins more seats than EITHER Labour or Tories LOSE - then they are pretty much guaranteed to be in the next government - as there’s NO WAY that Corbyn will go into a government of National Unity with Boris Johnson!!

Carryfast:

manalishi:
I don’t even believe A/H was the prime mover of policy either,more likely,Martin Borman and his Krupps paymasters.

^
That’s interesting.Which must have meant that they were onside with the destruction of Germany which followed in the knowledge of the pre arranged post war deal with the US to follow.Which as we know was massively in Germany’s favour above all other players including us.On that note I’ve always viewed US Federalism as one of the great evils even on its own turf not a force for good.With the EU just being an alliance of German and US Federalism with the aim of creating a USE in the US image by Federal German proxy.Here we are with the 4th Reich having infiltrated our own government from Head of State level down.But don’t buy the Israel link bollox.Churchill being no friend of Israel’s.As any Brit conscript unfortunately shamefully sent to Palestine from Italy in 1945 to turn their guns from the Germans onto Jewish refugees trying to build a homeland for themselves would have known.

telegraph.co.uk/history/worl … chill.html

Interesting how hundreds of high powered ■■■■ engineers escaped the Nuremberg ballet,in exchange for seeding the foundations of NASA-(Von Braun) and Ghellen (Abwehr), refining the embryonic C.I.A,alongside a plethora of scientists involved with the bio-chemical and weaponry fields of expertise,with luxurious apurtenances and guaranteed protections while on American soil.I do regularly name check a certain Sabbatean/Frankist bloodline i suspect have long seized total control of planetary politics by virtue of tried and trusted Babylonian financial sorcery and nothing disabuses me of that. Instead of Hertzls rejection of Hitlers offer of a new Jewish homeland in Madagascar,they instead bombed and blitzed multiple Arab lands with all the subsequent implications that accrues to this day.(oil perchance?) :open_mouth: I can assure you i’m neither anti Sephardic or pro-Adolph,but i do believe the organisaton of Adam Weishaupts-ultra-elite,Rothschild/Coburg financed(Illuminati- lodge) of 1776…(check the graphics on US dollar bills) are the real source of the worlds woes and very much the real deal.Words like Federalism,Socialism cut no ice with me.Just trojan mechanisms to keep the 1% safe from the 99%.

quote=“Franglais”]

malcolmgbell:

Darkside:

malcolmgbell:

dozy:
Ha ha ha after 3 yrs the best deal the brexit bright
Sparks can come up with is worse than the deal
We already had
How ZB embarrassed must those 17m be ,
Art 50 should be revoked now

Y would we be embarrassed?

Mainly IMO because this deal (unlike the May deal) doesn’t stick to EU levels of employee rights as a minimum requirement but opts out. Like anyone thought those Eton boys were going to stick up for workers anyway…

but 17.4 million of use did not hash that together did we

Absolutely true.
You were promised an easy exit and a bright future.
“All upsides” etc.
What is on the table starts with a £2k loss…
Time to say whether or not we are happy to accept this real (not imaginary) deal?
[/quote]
We were not promised any think if I remember, ok you had partys telling you this and that but if you think that is y people voted the way they did you are mistaken. People wanted out because the did not whant to be part of the eu for what ever reason they had.but then they said we did not no what we were voting for, but they think they did, really

dozy:
Well done Oliver & also the 1.5 million who marched for
A People’s vote

The peoples vote really.did we not have one in 2016,look how that’s turning out,just a bunch of idiot that did not get their own way throwing their toys out of the pram

If there has to be a land border within the Union, why can’t it be Wales? [emoji12]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I wouldn’t object to a future situation where No Deal Brexit gets done, the money paid to the EU stops entirely, is re-distributed about the UK economy to “soften the effect”, and then at the END of the next parliament, around 2025 say - we THEN have a “confirmatory referendum” like we did in 1975 after Heath took us into the EEC without asking us, and Wilson did NOT take us out, after winning the 2nd late election about this time of the year in 1974.


In such an event, even Remainers and Europhiles would easily accept the Brexit we’ve long since had by that point - simply because THEY would not be prepared to go through all the “fresh cuts” required - to re-instate Britain in Europe, and resuming all the massive payments that we’d have long since ceased by that point.

Can you imagine any politician running on a “re-join the EU” campaign with “We will have to raise taxes a little” or "The EU have only demanded we shut down just a few of our insitutions currently flooded with cash - to raise the membership fees" and the like??

Thus, 4-5 years AFTER a No Deal Brexit - is the only way I’d accept any “2nd confirmatory referendum”.

What we do NOT want to be railroaded into - is any kind of referendum BEFORE Brexit has even been delivered - ANY kind of Brexit, even Boris Johnson’s Non-Brexit where we’ll still be paying to stay in, but won’t have any influence there. The worst of both worlds - just as May’s crappy deal was.

Boris Johnson - seems to think he wants to define his Brexit as "closing our borders at Midnight on October 31st" rather than “ceasing all the payments to the EU by October 31st” - which is how this ■■■■■■■■ Brexiteer describes a “satisfactory Brexit”… :imp: :imp:

If there’s a general election, and Boris has not delivered a No Deal then - I’ll be voting Brexit Party, and I suspect a few Labour Leave voters will as well.

Boris losing seats - assures he’ll be got rid of - thus pleasing the Labour Leave voters, and seats currently held by the Libdems with Tories in second place - WON’T be won by the Tories - they’ll go to Brexit Party instead.

There’s well into three figures of “Remainer MPs of all parties sitting in Brexit voting seats”.
But only a handful of “Brexiteer MPs in Remain-voting seats”, of which Rees Mogg is one, for those Labour voters that can see the light of such a great opportunity to get rid of the hated Tories…

If Labour voters stick to voting Labour in places like Scotland where the Tories are either the incumbents, or 2nd to the SNP - then guess what? “No Change!!!”
More people voted Brexit in Scotland - than voted for the SNP - FACT. Brexit Party also won a seat (out of six available) in the Euro elections earlier this year…
Nicola Sturgeon might give us the impression that there are “no Brexiteers in Scotland whatsoever” - but that’s not true, and she’ll find that out at the next election, where at last Brexit voters - can stand up and be counted - by voting Brexit Party rather than Labour/Conservative/Libdem in their protest vote against the SNP incumbent… Where are the 55% that voted “Better Together” as well come to that?

THEY still exist- despite Sturgeon thinking they all died off since IndyRef1…

Don’t take my word for it though - Look through the raw election data from the 2017 election, and see just how many opporunities to “get rid of an incumbent” there are about the country for Brexiteer voters at this forthcoming general election!!

I reckon the mainstream parties are going to make a HUGE mistake in "comparing future support for Brexit Party to current support for UKIP, nearly non-existant as it is…

UKIP’s vote under Farage in 2015 collapsed from 4m to .5m by 2017. That’s 3.5m votes migrating in two years… Where did they go■■? NOT Theresa May’s Conservatives, who faceplanted, losing her majority as she did.

I reckon a large proportion of the 3.5m “migrant UKIP votes” - went straight to Corbyn’s Labour actually… His vote went up unexpectedly by… 3.5m! Fancy that! Coincidence■■?

SO… Labour Leave voters - would appear to have the balance of power…

They can choose to vote for a third or fourth place Labour party - and cause “no change at the top”, with either the incumbent holding on, or the current 2nd place party - turning over the incumbent… NO GOOD for delivering Brexit OR getting rid of the Tories - is it?? North Norfolk, or loads of other places around the East Coast - spring to mind, as to many Scottish seats…

… Boris Johnson, like May and Cameron before him - have tried to use the argument “If you vote for Farage - you’ll let in Corbyn” - which of course LABOUR voters - would WELCOME - right■■?

Thus, tactical voting for Brexit Party - would not only force the government’s hand, defeat the Remainers, and deliver the Brexit we want - a WTO one - It would also usher in a future Labour government that would have MONEY TO SPEND rather than this old thing where Tax Hikes and Increased Borrowings - always end up defeating a would-be “generous” government - at the ballot box.

The Brexit Dividend - SHOULD be a Golden Goose to be gotten… But that’s not how our incumbent mainstream MPs have played it… Why? - The EU bribes got to them FIRST, I strongly suspect… ALL of them!!

In any case, - “Do we trust the Tories to spend the Brexit dividend wisely, even assuming they ever get their hands on it?”

GERMANY has had financial surpluses for YEARS - and yet the German people see scant amounts of that money being spent on their benefit…
Surely a magic money tree - would work better in the hands of a spendthrift government that a skinflint one then■■?

Farge has said “He doesn’t want to be Prime Minister”. There’s no reason to doubt that. It also opens the interesting scenario where Corbyn getting enough seats at the next election to get over the line with a Brexit Party coalition themselves - Farage would likely settle for “Chancellor in a Labour/BP coalition government”. If Labour backbenches howled in derision at such a prospect for the Labour party - then Boris Johnson would end up staying in power AFTER all, since Brexit Party would do what is expected of them in THAT case - and go into coalition with the Tories… Assuming that the Tories had about the same seat tally as Labour by that point, of course… We’re talking Labour & Tory on about 265 seats apiece, with Brexit Party on 70-80 seats here… Easily possible, with over 100 “Remainer MPs in Brexit-voting Wards” up and down the country!!

forget the traditional “marginals”. I’m not talking about a 2nd place party overturning a tiny majority here. I’m talking about the “nowhere last time” (because they didn’t exist in 2017…) Brexit Party turning over (in some places) a five-figure majority to unseat ANY incumbent who’s acted on behalf of the EU rather than their majority Leave-voting constituents since 2017…

Check out all these “vulnerable” MPs in that regard…

Thus, I strongly suggest that the old “Vote Brexit Party - get Corbyn” argument won’t cut any ice any longer at any forthcoming election.

We want the Brexit dividend, and then we want a government that actually spends that cash at home in a generous manner.

Don’t give a toss about “immigration controls”.
Don’t care about “losing or keeping access to the single market, customs union, or EU institutions”.

Brexit - is when we stop paying the money, and then from that position of strength - it is then for the EU to shut down our “carry on regardless” country from accessing their stuff for free after that…
I think the EU supertanker - will take some time to shut down the UK’s access, and it won’t be overnight by a long shot. Thus, the “cliff edge” Brexit is averted for the UK - since the EU won’t be able to cut us off quickly enough… Not so for the EU that could lose that cash from the moment of Brexit onwards - IF it is done “NO CASH” rather than “Boris Johnson’s permanent Transition Period” Brexit, which will ensure we stay paying forever waiting for that “free trade agreement” that’ll never come, because the EU can just sit on their hands until doomsday - whilst getting our regular infusions of cash we carry on foolishly giving them. :angry:

If Boris won’t deliver a PROPER Brexit - then move over, and let Farage do it - even if he has to go into coalition with Corbyn to pull it off… Imagine Corbyn acting as the Eurosceptic he’s supposed to be, raising the money for all his spending plans, and letting Farage as his chancellor - take the flak from the Remainers who will moan at him as he re-allocates each severed EU cashline - to some Labour-tilted UK interest first and foremost, rather than the loaded elites that no doubt the Libdem Remainers want to see the palms greased of first… :bulb:

In such an election - Boris Johnson and Rees Mogg - are likely to both lose their seats as well, btw.

…BUT if everyone sticks to voting “Mainstream” - then none of this happens, and we carry on as before "Hung Parliament, Nothing done - losing money to the EU forever and ever Amen."

It is upto the population - the Brexiteer population - to vote TACTICALLY then. Can we all do it?

I just want it over to be honest.

I do not intend to spend the rest of my life in this country 10 years max.
I am also as far away from a nationalist as you can get. I have no pride in being born in a particular place and I think it’s rather silly to proud to be born in a certain area.

I do think we should honour the referendum though.
I also like the idea of Boris going to the queen and telling her he no longer wishes to be PM.
This would result in Jeremy Corbyn becoming the PM.

It’s suggested that Boris may do this if he can’t get his election which would be hilarious.
He would be on the other side of the bench instead voting down all of Jeremy’s motions.
I think it is clear that another general election is needed though but the remainers do not want one until they can outlaw a no deal brexit. The last thing they want is that choice to still be possible as the people could vote for someone like Farage who would campaign on it.
The irony of the people campaigning for a ‘peoples’ vote but going out of their way to make sure the people do not have the choice of a no deal brexit.

I want the next PM to be someone who accepts a no deal brexit - rather than delivers it.

“Delivery” is easy: Involve Nigel Farage.

“Acceptance” is something we really need from our errant Parliament. They put a lot of effort into trying to get the population to vote Remain in the first place - and they nearly made it:

1% Elites convincing another 47% of the general public that “making elites lose out” was somehow a bad thing whilst “Keeping poor people poor” is a fantastic idea, as it keeps benefit claimaints ON those benefits, rather than forced to take some low-paid farm job - that can now go to a migrant worker instead.

Thus, I very quickly came to the conclusion that the Remainers that were NOT “Elites” came from the following sections of society:

Workers: Any firm with a militant union.
Benefit Claimants: Anyone who fears being “forced to take a job, or lose benefits”.
Employers: - Anyone getting rebate/subsidy money from the EU
Officials: - Anyone getting expenses offsets rather than just raw PAYE tax-paid wages.

Brexiteers - on the other hand, seem to be predominantly PAYE blue collar taxpayers, with the occasional employer/official thrown in that clearly recognizes the sentiment among their own workforce.

“Nationalism” doesn’t even begin to come into the Brexit argument.

Why are we “Crazed Nationalist Fanatics” for wanting our own country to be awash with our own harded-earned taxpayer cash rather than give so much of it away, no strings attached to a foreign power that clearly isn’t spending it wisely?

Why are we “Far Right Extremists” for wanting less downward pressure on wages - by flooding the labour market with workers, rather than the jobs market with higher-paid jobs??

Why are we “Xenophobic Racists” for taking on millions of migrants “no questions asked” for years and years, long before Brexit was even a word in our language?