Lol
Remember those £350m a week Tory buses
£12b lost to broken track n trace
£countless billions lost to giving bogus contracts to matt Hancocks bartender mates
And people still back Boris hahaha lemmings
“At least he’s not Corbyn, the daily mail told me”
Franglais:
How do you “make your own mind up”?
Presumably from information? From facts you have learned somewhere?
If you read the Mail, Express, Sun, listen to Talk Radio, you will hear a biased view of the world.
When you accidently hear a less biased view it will seem extreme or false to you.
If you read a few online articles about Ferraris and TV presenters called Holly, then your browser will send you more of the same. Read about COVID being a hoax or a minor issue and you’ll get more of the same. That’s how we can all end up in echo chambers.
Read articles on Red Top sites, scroll down and there will be links to Euro Sceptic articles. Even if you only read the headlines (especially if you only read the headlines) and you’ll get the editor’s and owner’s view of the world. Only a few lines, but each little bit will enforce the others.If you (not just Mr RobRoy of course) want to “make your own mind up” think about how your get your facts to do your own thinking.
The exact same thing can be applied to yourself Franglais, with your views on EU and Covid when you repeat the official lines on here parrot fashion, in order to convince…well me basically. 
I don’t need the media to influence my opinions,…sure I’ll.read and hear about the same story from both sides, but firstly I tend to filter out the hype and filter out the sensationalist bull ■■■■…which are the ingredients conciously put there to form popular opinion in the country. 
So in my own personal opinion making my own mind up after conciously listening to both biased negative and positive opinions has worked for me in life so far thanks.
If what you say was applicable to me in say football for eg, which I love, I would not be supporting Newcastle Utd,.I’d be walking around dressed in red and going to Old Traffird on a Saturday (omg the shear thought of it 
)
Also how many times have you heard somebody say ‘‘Don’t trust him, he’s a wrong un’’ , or the time I applied for a job with a firm that was ‘‘known’’ to run you ragged, but turned out to be the best job and firm I’ve had…again populist b/s, or girls I’ve been warned off as a lad, who have been ok in the end…dammit. 
So taking stuff on board,.but at the same time not readily believing what the sheep and the easily led say, but making my own mind up in every aspect of life works for me.
Does that explain what I mean?
Btw ‘TV presenters’…have you been hacking into my browser history?
robroy:
Franglais:
If what you say was applicable to me in say football for eg, which I love, I would not be supporting Newcastle Utd,.I’d be walking around dressed in red and going to Old Traffird on a Saturday (omg the shear thought of it
Man Utd was originally the dock workers union club and has since always been proud to be a working class club that has supported the left.
Can’t see someone who votes Tory and therefore hates unions being made welcome.
Franglais:
If you read the Mail, Express, Sun, listen to Talk Radio, you will hear a biased view of the world.
Intersting that you dont mention the pro remain rags such as The Mirror or The Guardian. Do you by any chance subscribe to these papers?
In 2015 I was in Belgium for the 200th anniversary of the Battle of Wateloo celebrations. While there we went to the European Parliament visitor centre to help get a sense of balance. I was and still am a European, I love Europe and love visiting Europe. What I didn’t like was the further federalisation that the EU was heading into.
For me I weighed up all that was good of the EU and all that was bad of the EU and it just came out closely to leave.
So you see not all of us where brainwashed by The Sun.
msgyorkie:
Franglais:
If you read the Mail, Express, Sun, listen to Talk Radio, you will hear a biased view of the world.Intersting that you dont mention the pro remain rags such as The Mirror or The Guardian. Do you by any chance subscribe to these papers?
In 2015 I was in Belgium for the 200th anniversary of the Battle of Wateloo celebrations. While there we went to the European Parliament visitor centre to help get a sense of balance. I was and still am a European, I love Europe and love visiting Europe. What I didn’t like was the further federalisation that the EU was heading into.
For me I weighed up all that was good of the EU and all that was bad of the EU and it just came out closely to leave.
So you see not all of us where brainwashed by The Sun.
I do read the Guardian and yes it is often written a left leaning bias. I rarely read the Mirror, I probably read the Mail, Express etc more than that.
Am I totally balanced? How can I possibly be a good judge of that?
I try to read beyond what is presented to me, as time consuming as that is.
For balance the BBC and SkyNews (UK only!) are pretty good. Some pieces lean one way more than another, but overall they seem OK.
If anyone dismisses them out of hand I always wonder why. For those who dismiss the MSM as a block should re-examine their own sources. I do watch some of the more “out there” links provided by many here, but from my perspective they seem to be based on circular arguments, referring each to the other, and pulling each other up by the boot-straps. A sole diet of such will inevitably turn one`s center of gravity.
robroy:
So in my own personal opinion making my own mind up after conciously listening to both biased negative and positive opinions has worked for me in life so far thanks.
Tried looking for facts rather than what you perceive as biased opinions from both sides?
A balanced argument is NOT one that gives opposing points of view equal weight. An argumnet backed up by empirical evidence should be given higher weighting.
(The BBC made this error in the reporting of the MMR nonsense spread by the (now struck off Dr) Andrew Wakefield. His crap still resulted in the deaths in Swansea, and still echoes around the world today.)
robroy:
yourself Franglais, with your views on EU and Covid when you repeat the official lines on here parrot fashion
Yep, I do have a reputation for believing everything the Gov says and supporting them blindly.
****!
Even supposedly unbiased news sources like the BBC have been so pro Brexit, and pro Government over the years.
Look at the amount of time they give Farage when he couldn’t even make it as an MP in seven attempts, most appearances on QT I think.
Darkside:
Even supposedly unbiased news sources like the BBC have been so pro Brexit, and pro Government over the years.Look at the amount of time they give Farage when he couldn’t even make it as an MP in seven attempts, most appearances on QT I think.
Now you are having a laugh. The BBC was ridiculously pro Remain. Civitas: Institute for the Study of Civil Society Pro-Brexit voices drowned out in BBC news programmes, new analysis shows
And regarding Farage having airtime, well he was an MEP for UKIP as well as their leader.
Are you saying that the BBC should not have given the leader of a major political party airtime?
Darkside:
robroy:
Franglais:
If what you say was applicable to me in say football for eg, which I love, I would not be supporting Newcastle Utd,.I’d be walking around dressed in red and going to Old Traffird on a Saturday (omg the shear thought of itMan Utd was originally the dock workers union club and has since always been proud to be a working class club that has supported the left.
Can’t see someone who votes Tory and therefore hates unions being made welcome.
Are you being serious?
Try looking at about 50% of your ‘home’ supporters from the home counties and other Tory areas .
As your own ex player Roy Keane christened them, ‘The prawn sandwich brigade’ drinking their bottles of Beaujolaus in their boxes…aye real salt of the earth working class types eh? : :
Franglais:
robroy:
So in my own personal opinion making my own mind up after conciously listening to both biased negative and positive opinions has worked for me in life so far thanks.Tried looking for facts rather than what you perceive as biased opinions from both sides?
A balanced argument is NOT one that gives opposing points of view equal weight. An argumnet backed up by empirical evidence should be given higher weighting.
(The BBC made this error in the reporting of the MMR nonsense spread by the (now struck off Dr) Andrew Wakefield. His crap still resulted in the deaths in Swansea, and still echoes around the world today.)robroy:
yourself Franglais, with your views on EU and Covid when you repeat the official lines on here parrot fashionYep, I do have a reputation for believing everything the Gov says and supporting them blindly.
****!
I could study all this stuff implicitly like yourself, and dig up ‘facts’ from an opposing pov to your own, such as exaggerated figures, like deaths involving Covid as opposed to deaths caused by Covid, intricate details of EU policies that are not quite what they appear, but are there to promote a hidden agenda and all the rest of it…but it would take over more of my life than I would be willing to let it, so I’ll leave it to you as it obviously floats your boat more than it does mine.
I bow to your detailed knowledge on all this kind if stuff and all the time you evidently spend studying it, so I’m never gonna win an argument with you.
Suffice to say I have enough info to form my own opinions on both subjects, that is enough for me…
Btw.
Admitting your last paragraph, and that you’re a Guardian reader in one day?
What you telling us next, that New Years Day is on this Friday? 
robroy:
Darkside:
robroy:
Franglais:
If what you say was applicable to me in say football for eg, which I love, I would not be supporting Newcastle Utd,.I’d be walking around dressed in red and going to Old Traffird on a Saturday (omg the shear thought of itMan Utd was originally the dock workers union club and has since always been proud to be a working class club that has supported the left.
Can’t see someone who votes Tory and therefore hates unions being made welcome.
Try looking at about 50% of your ‘home’ supporters from the home counties and other Tory areas .
As your own ex player Roy Keane christened them, ‘The prawn sandwich brigade’ drinking their bottles of Beaujolaus in their boxes…aye real salt of the earth working class types eh? : :
Yep all serious, in fact you have said it yourself. The club allowed the then club captain to criticize a portion of the crowd for being the wrong type…
C’mon mate , you know better than me…nobody ‘‘allows’’ Roy Keane to say r do anything, he says what he thinks, and does what he likes irrespective of what he’s told.
Don’t want to turn this into a football thread, but go on, I’ll indulge you, you’ve made a point,.so you tell me as a percentage how many of your so called ‘‘home’’ fans, are Labour voting, Union supporting, Tory hating working class.
I think my estimate was on the generous side tbh.
To be fair, I would of voted leave if I were in the UK, but Johnson did let down the UK, this deal is brexit in name only … might as well of remained, he is not allowing proper due process of the bill … he’s ramming it through… and all MP’s and the house of lord will allow it, in fear of a no deal …
I don’t buy the nonsense Johnson is saying. He done over the uk and kier stutter is also going against the red wall.
Just been on news that Diane Abbot says she’s voting against the deal in Parliament.
If that does not send a message to those MPs who are either way, or those who are looking for a good reason to vote FOR it, nothing will.
521 for and only 73 against
Sent from my truck
blue estate:
521 for and only 73 againstSent from my truck
There should be another vote on it.
Darkside:
robroy:
Franglais:
If what you say was applicable to me in say football for eg, which I love, I would not be supporting Newcastle Utd,.I’d be walking around dressed in red and going to Old Traffird on a Saturday (omg the shear thought of itMan Utd was originally the dock workers union club and has since always been proud to be a working class club that has supported the left.
Can’t see someone who votes Tory and therefore hates unions being made welcome.
Were they not originally Newton Heath LYR ( Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway ) ■■ Working class yes, but where does " dockers " or " union club " come in to it ?
Regards John.
Just a thought. Does anybody else think that the remoaner posters are women. The drip,drip,drip, going on and on and on , never giving up about a subject. No man would have the stamina to keep it up. He would just say what ever you want I am off down the pub, just please yourself.
Odd days:
Just a thought. Does anybody else think that the remoaner posters are women. The drip,drip,drip, going on and on and on , never giving up about a subject. No man would have the stamina to keep it up. He would just say what ever you want I am off down the pub, just please yourself.
[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]
Any ways their noticed by their absence tonight
Sent from my truck
blue estate:
Odd days:
Just a thought. Does anybody else think that the remoaner posters are women. The drip,drip,drip, going on and on and on , never giving up about a subject. No man would have the stamina to keep it up. He would just say what ever you want I am off down the pub, just please yourself.[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]
Any ways their noticed by their absence tonight
The Samaritans switchboard is jammed tonight I’ve heard, and they can’t even go to the pub to cry into their pints because of the lockdown.
You’ve got to feel sorry for them…not.
I’ m not one to gloat, but…
Ok, fair enough I am one to gloat. 