We would not be 'kow towing ’ to any of em in that scenario (as we have been)
History will reveal what a good deal we had when we were EU members, a far better one than we will get when we apply to rejoin with our economy in ruins!
GasGas:
We would not be 'kow towing ’ to any of em in that scenario (as we have been)History will reveal what a good deal we had when we were EU members, a far better one than we will get when we apply to rejoin with our economy in ruins!
Aye right.
Re.apply? Dry yer eyes and dream on mate. 
robroy:
GasGas:
Whatever you do, don’t tell them that Churchill proposed an Anglo-French Government in 1940 and the European Union in the post-war era!winstonchurchill.org/resources/ … of-europe/
Johnson scribbled a pot-boiler biography of Churchill…shame he didn’t understand the subject at all.
Looks as if you didn’t understand the subject either…or the situation at that time.
Ffs
Talk about clutching at straws to make a point.The situation in Europe at that time was totally different…as you well know.
Most of mainland Europe had been totally [zb] ed, and bankrupt, and most of the infrastructure was in ruins.
If Churchill had managed to kick off some Euro one state, you can sure as hell bet the UK would have a, if not THE leading role in the proceedings and defin8tely the running, as we would be the premier nation…and backed by the US.We would not be 'kow towing ’ to any of em in that scenario (as we have been) ,…especially the Germans, who were a defeated nation, and a hated nation by the likes of France.
Who knows?..maybe it would have went the other way,.another European war after the Germans were kept down again this time …as in and after the Treaty of Versailles WW1.
Not good.He probably saw this vision of Europe as a new ‘Neo British Empire’ …, as he did belong to that Imperialistic generation,.(and class) .after all.
…
So try again with that analogy and theory,…the Europe situation then compared to today was a totally different ball game, comparing apples with oranges.And to take history even further…
As for the Russians,.General Patton was all for re.mobilising and commanding the German forces ,.and rallying with them under Western Allied command to take the Russians on…that would have sorted out any future Cold war problems…plus the US had the bomb as a sweetener.
So yeh maybe Churchills Euro Vision would have been a good thing you are right.
At least, far better (for us anyway) than the cluster [zb] of self serving corruption that the EU has developed into over the years.
Rob, not a but summary.
But whilst mainland Europe was indeed ruined and pretty much bankrupt (if not actually bankrupt, all valuables had been robbed by the moffen, and the impending rebuilding of homes and infrastructure would be a financial burden for decades), Britain itself was virtually bankrupt, and had lost a very large part of its (working age) Male population.
Churchill did indeed see European cooperation as a way to avoid a similar conflict happening again, dont forget that his generation had seen and fought in two conflicts so destructive and worldwide, in the space of only three decades, and how the development of weapons and tactics were bording even worse for the next one. Of course, Churchill suffered from that British treat of superiority complex and still having a very large Empire (at that moment), so he would have naturally conceived a Europe with a leading role for Britain. Ironically, Britain could have played a major leading role in Europe, if only it had joined and taken the lead from the beginning. But Britain, still holding on to its colonies by then, decided it could still go it alone.
(Hmm, theres a lesson there somewhere… 
)
robroy:
Maybe my theory could be construed as re.writing history, but on the other hand I accept history.also…what about you?
Which bits of history shall we choose?
The UK in the 60s being overtaken as an economic power by France and Germany? The UK as the "sick man of Europe" in the 60s and 70`s? The Three day week and Winter of Discontent?
The UK historically underinvesting in new industry as profits are taken and the wealth gap in the country increases?
Having an improving economy as part of the EU, until the World recession in 2008?
robroy:
did I say something that was not fact
Dunno?
What about
robroy:
We would not be 'kow towing ’ to any of em in that scenario (as we have been)
And
robroy:
At least, far better (for us anyway) than the cluster [zb] of self serving corruption that the EU has developed into over the years.
What do you mean by “Kow-Towing”?
And, what, apart from most likely a quote from a YouTube vid, is that 2nd rant about?
The EU has about 16% of the world GDP. That is more than the US and China. For a “cluster !?” it aint doing so bad. Is it more corrupt than other comparable organisations? Any facts available to back this? (Articles by the lying journalist B Johnson from 20 years ago in rags dont really count as evidence, by the way)
I have noted that at least one politician from the EU Parliament was ordered to repay funds meant for constituency but diverted to his political party though.
Take the advice you gave to me if you want a heavy in depth political argument…Give Carryfast a shout, he’ll indulge you.
Look mate we’re never going to agree, the subject of European history was brought up not by me, I just addressed your fellow moaner and gave my take on it, basically to say he was talking ■■■■■■■■…history is interpreted by perspective, we all see things in a different way, one man’s terrorist is another’s freedom fighter as they say.
I.simply can’t be arsed ,…I’ve moved on …, the result has been chosen by vote, the move has only gone through, the ■■■■ ink ain’t dry on the paper yet, and you lot are still condemning the present state of affairs, instead of …(sure I’ve said this to you before you know ) waiting,.taking stock, reviewing what goes on,.giving things a chance to settle down after the period of change,.settling in period, …and then and only then proving yourself right (or wrong) as I’m sure you’ll be chomping at the bit for your first ‘‘I told you so scenario’’ to come up.
GasGas:
a far better one than we will get when we apply to rejoin with our economy in ruins!
Rejoining the EU would be the very worst case scenario for the next 10 to 20 years. If we was to rejoin ASAP they would hammer us big time with outlandish demands. We would also not benefit from Thatchers rebate so would end as the largest contributor to the coffers.
Far better to let Brexit run its course, see how the turd lands and decide then.
robroy:
Take the advice you gave to me if you want a heavy in depth political argument…Give Carryfast a shout, he’ll indulge you.
Look mate we’re never going to agree, the subject of European history was brought up not by me, I just addressed your fellow moaner and gave my take on it, basically to say he was talking ■■■■■■■■…history is interpreted by perspective, we all see things in a different way, one man’s terrorist is another’s freedom fighter as they say.
I.simply can’t be arsed ,…I’ve moved on
For me?
Is being politely (I hope) asked to explain what you really mean, when you have voluntarily written something, too much to ask?
You asked in your post what wasnt fact, and I replied with a couple of suggestions. You dont have to respond or explain yourself of course.
And how the deal pans out in the future is nothing to do with your comments about “kow towing” or “corruption” that I can see?
robroy:
At least, far better (for us anyway) than the cluster [zb] of self serving corruption that the EU has developed into over the years.
‘Cluster ■■■■ of self serving corruption’ he says without an ounce of irony in Boris Johnsons Britain. A government so self serving and corrupt it actually boggles the mind.
switchlogic:
robroy:
At least, far better (for us anyway) than the cluster [zb] of self serving corruption that the EU has developed into over the years.‘Cluster [zb] of self serving corruption’ he says without an ounce of irony in Boris Johnsons Britain. A government so self serving and corrupt it actually boggles the mind.
So?
I didn’t say it was an ‘either or’ situation, and I ain’t a great fan (nor apologist ) for the Govt…or any past Govt, they are all, and have been. self serving, or to go a bit further any politician for that matter…
So what’s your point exactly, as I ain’t really arguing with you on this.
In party politics it has got to the stage where you no longer vote for the best, but the (excuse my grammar) ‘least worst’.
The formation of the EU and it’s gravy train culture epitomises those points.
At the risk of being called a Little Englander or something along those lines, call me old fashioned, but I prefer to be ruled by a group of (arguably inept) Brits, or whatever your opinion is of them than a bunch of self centred beauraucratic foreigners.
A simplistic view, but it’s MY view.
msgyorkie:
GasGas:
a far better one than we will get when we apply to rejoin with our economy in ruins!Rejoining the EU would be the very worst case scenario for the next 10 to 20 years. If we was to rejoin ASAP they would hammer us big time with outlandish demands. We would also not benefit from Thatchers rebate so would end as the largest contributor to the coffers.
Far better to let Brexit run its course, see how the turd lands and decide then.
Not happening.
See last general election
I think things have moved on since the last election.
The corruption and incompetence of BJ is now plain for all to see, and his Brexit deal has been revealed as worse than May’s.
J R-M is now ‘not ruling out’ being PM!
Hilarious!
GasGas:
I think things have moved on since the last election.The corruption and incompetence of BJ is now plain for all to see, and his Brexit deal has been revealed as worse than May’s.
J R-M is now ‘not ruling out’ being PM!
Hilarious!
Ah, Thank Goodness!
At last, someone who knows how to wear a top-hat, and can really put the oicks in their place.
Apparently though, his father bought his own furniture!
GasGas:
I think things have moved on since the last election.The corruption and incompetence of BJ is now plain for all to see, and his Brexit deal has been revealed as worse than May’s.
J R-M is now ‘not ruling out’ being PM!
Hilarious!
Jesus, as if we aren’t enough of a laughing stock in the world because of Bumbling idiot Boris, imagine if Victorian ghost Jacob Rees Mogg becomes PM.
GasGas:
I think things have moved on since the last election.
The fact that(here in Bolsover)…we outed Skinner,suggests you’ve work to do.
switchlogic:
Jesus, as if we aren’t enough of a laughing stock in the world because of Bumbling idiot Boris, imagine if Victorian ghost Jacob Rees Mogg becomes PM.
Serious question. What difference would it make?
commonrail:
GasGas:
I think things have moved on since the last election.The fact that(here in Bolsover)…we outed Skinner,suggests you’ve work to do.
In the history of MPs, has there ever been anyone more smug and complacent than Skinner?
dexxy57:
switchlogic:
Jesus, as if we aren’t enough of a laughing stock in the world because of Bumbling idiot Boris, imagine if Victorian ghost Jacob Rees Mogg becomes PM.Serious question. What difference would it make?
Replacing one posh incompetent moron with another posh incompetent moron…well, let me see 
We’re already a running joke to many countries
switchlogic:
dexxy57:
switchlogic:
Jesus, as if we aren’t enough of a laughing stock in the world because of Bumbling idiot Boris, imagine if Victorian ghost Jacob Rees Mogg becomes PM.Serious question. What difference would it make?
Replacing one posh incompetent moron with another posh incompetent moron…well, let me see
We’re already a running joke to many countries
But they ran the Eton tuck shop so well. What wen’t wrong?
switchlogic:
dexxy57:
switchlogic:
Jesus, as if we aren’t enough of a laughing stock in the world because of Bumbling idiot Boris, imagine if Victorian ghost Jacob Rees Mogg becomes PM.Serious question. What difference would it make?
Replacing one posh incompetent moron with another posh incompetent moron…well, let me see
We’re already a running joke to many countries
But they ran the Eton tuck shop so well. What wen’t wrong?
dexxy57:
switchlogic:
dexxy57:
switchlogic:
Jesus, as if we aren’t enough of a laughing stock in the world because of Bumbling idiot Boris, imagine if Victorian ghost Jacob Rees Mogg becomes PM.Serious question. What difference would it make?
Replacing one posh incompetent moron with another posh incompetent moron…well, let me see
We’re already a running joke to many countriesBut they ran the Eton tuck shop so well. What wen’t wrong?
Not the first person on here to be hoodwinked into posting the same message twice, so my conscience is clear.