adr:
Hi Mr Bewick, I been all through this thread, great reading & always a very smartly turned out fleet . You have run British/French/German/Swedish wagons, no doubt you have had your favourites, but 1 make I canât see you ever running, or there are pics on here of are DAFâs? Is there a particular reason for that, or when you were in the market for new wagons they just didnât offer you a deal that was worth it? Regards Chris
Here you are Chris,a shot of one of a number of DAF demos we had over the years,this one coupled to a load of scrap rail off the Main West coast line destined for either the Northeast or Sheffield IIRC.Ah! DAFâs,well IMHO ,at that time in the 80âs,they were too heavy and too thirsty and I didnât âreckonâ much to the local dealer either,MANâs wernât much better either IMHO.I hope this answers your question Scania all the way Cheers Mr.Bewick.
Too heavy & thirsty, itâs not the first time Iâve heard that about DAFs at that time! Looking at the rest of your fleet at the time the DAF 2800/3300 looked like your kind of wagon, alongside the 112/113s that you clearly liked . Itâs always interesting to hear from the man who had to pay the bills, thanks. Regards Chris
boris:
Dennis , why didnât you buy any Mandators ? Alot of drivers /operators considered them to be the âpremiumâ motor in their day
Apart from the two Leyland Mastiff tractor units I ran at the start the only premium tractor I had set my sights on was the Atkinson and although I couldnât get my hands on a Gardner engined chassis the â â â â â â â 205 and later the 220 did us a fine job.There was no way that I would have considered a Mandator or Beaver,they werenât in the same league as the Atky or the ERF for that matter.If I hadnât stuck with the Atky or ERF I may have been tempted toward the Big J or the Seddon 32/4 which were both better prospects than the Leyland offerings,others may have a different opinion but thats mine Cheers Dennis.
Thatâs fighting talk where I come from, personally Iâd take a Mandator over an Atki or ERF any dayâŚbut thatâs what makes these diverse views on here so interesting.
And so say all of us,well maybe not all of us eh! Bewick.
Evening Dennis,all this talk about the different motors in my oppinion you kept with what you knew if you got good service from something you stuck with it we ran aec,s for many years and they did us well but we knew everthing about them and the other thing was tillotsons the distributor was local,but like many others we went onto scania and volvo we also had a turbostar which i did a serious lot of millage with not everones favorite but it earned some money.cheers Richard.
boris:
Dennis , why didnât you buy any Mandators ? Alot of drivers /operators considered them to be the âpremiumâ motor in their day
Apart from the two Leyland Mastiff tractor units I ran at the start the only premium tractor I had set my sights on was the Atkinson and although I couldnât get my hands on a Gardner engined chassis the â â â â â â â 205 and later the 220 did us a fine job.There was no way that I would have considered a Mandator or Beaver,they werenât in the same league as the Atky or the ERF for that matter.If I hadnât stuck with the Atky or ERF I may have been tempted toward the Big J or the Seddon 32/4 which were both better prospects than the Leyland offerings,others may have a different opinion but thats mine Cheers Dennis.
Thatâs fighting talk where I come from, personally Iâd take a Mandator over an Atki or ERF any dayâŚbut thatâs what makes these diverse views on here so interesting.
And so say all of us,well maybe not all of us eh! Bewick.
Evening Dennis,all this talk about the different motors in my oppinion you kept with what you knew if you got good service from something you stuck with it we ran aec,s for many years and they did us well but we knew everthing about them and the other thing was tillotsons the distributor was local,but like many others we went onto scania and volvo we also had a turbostar which i did a serious lot of millage with not everones favorite but it earned some money.cheers Richard.
No doubt many hauliers got great service out of the AECâs same as we did with the â â â â â â â and Perkins V 8âs but having said that I wouldnât have liked a fleet of them,it would have been a bloody nightmare for sure.Cheers Dennis.
Iâm sure that itâs not just the âqualityâ of the vehicle or its pedigree, so to speak, but plenty of other factors as well. Such as local dealer support and of course what you are familiar with. Putting an unfamiliar marque into a fleet is always a step into the unknown. It can also be how you get on with the local dealerâs sales manager and we currently have a very good relationship with Lancashire DAF, hence our fleet is all DAF except for a single Mercedes. My formative years in this industry were with AECs, Leylands, and Seddons, so they were the marques I was most familiar with.
gingerfold:
Iâm sure that itâs not just the âqualityâ of the vehicle or its pedigree, so to speak, but plenty of other factors as well. Such as local dealer support and of course what you are familiar with. Putting an unfamiliar marque into a fleet is always a step into the unknown. It can also be how you get on with the local dealerâs sales manager and we currently have a very good relationship with Lancashire DAF, hence our fleet is all DAF except for a single Mercedes. My formative years in this industry were with AECs, Leylands, and Seddons, so they were the marques I was most familiar with.
We never used any of the local dealers workshop facilities apart from any recall campaigns which were few and far between and,of course,any warranty work which again was rare,any minor warranty work that just required a component exchange was done in our own workshop.Our fleet Engineer,as well as me,didnât want anyone else touching our motors unless it was just for a very simple repair otherwise the motor was recovered to Milnthorpe,which wasnât very often The only other people we allowed near our motors although mainly the trailers was tyre fitters as we didnât carry spares so on the odd occaision we had a tyre breakdown we had, a) a new Michelin fitted or b) either a Bridgestone or a Toyo fitted,the damaged case was returned with the motor for us to look at and the new case would be removed by our tyre fitter and replaced with a similar case to match the rest on that trailer or tractor.Boring I know but our methods kept our tyre costs low over the years.Cheers Bewick.
gingerfold:
Iâm sure that itâs not just the âqualityâ of the vehicle or its pedigree, so to speak, but plenty of other factors as well. Such as local dealer support and of course what you are familiar with. Putting an unfamiliar marque into a fleet is always a step into the unknown. It can also be how you get on with the local dealerâs sales manager and we currently have a very good relationship with Lancashire DAF, hence our fleet is all DAF except for a single Mercedes. My formative years in this industry were with AECs, Leylands, and Seddons, so they were the marques I was most familiar with.
As quite a few people on this forum will know the firm I worked for was Stirlands of Nottingham we ran a large fleet of Seddon Atkinsons and ERFs mainly powered by the best engine ever made the legendary Gardner we had superb back up from Cossington Commercials of Leicester and Scottâs Commercials of Nottingham. later to become Blackwood Hodge all our fitters were time served Gardner mechanics including me before my driving days and to me thereâs a bad motor or a good motor and in my own experience we tried many different makes and models both British and European but we could never match the reliability and longevity of the Gardner powered Seddon Atkinsons or ERFs
gingerfold:
Iâm sure that itâs not just the âqualityâ of the vehicle or its pedigree, so to speak, but plenty of other factors as well. Such as local dealer support and of course what you are familiar with. Putting an unfamiliar marque into a fleet is always a step into the unknown. It can also be how you get on with the local dealerâs sales manager and we currently have a very good relationship with Lancashire DAF, hence our fleet is all DAF except for a single Mercedes. My formative years in this industry were with AECs, Leylands, and Seddons, so they were the marques I was most familiar with.
We never used any of the local dealers workshop facilities apart from any recall campaigns which were few and far between and,of course,any warranty work which again was rare,any minor warranty work that just required a component exchange was done in our own workshop.Our fleet Engineer,as well as me,didnât want anyone else touching our motors unless it was just for a very simple repair otherwise the motor was recovered to Milnthorpe,which wasnât very often The only other people we allowed near our motors although mainly the trailers was tyre fitters as we didnât carry spares so on the odd occaision we had a tyre breakdown we had, a) a new Michelin fitted or b) either a Bridgestone or a Toyo fitted,the damaged case was returned with the motor for us to look at and the new case would be removed by our tyre fitter and replaced with a similar case to match the rest on that trailer or tractor.Boring I know but our methods kept our tyre costs low over the years.Cheers Bewick.
This way with companies having their own workshops was tried & tested & for companies like yourself who constantly monitored the cost of everything to see which wagons/tyres/components etc were giving best service, was clearly the best way . It gave you the infoâ you required regarding future purchasing policy, because I wonder if you get all the âdetailsâ you should from your dealer, especially with a company that grew to the size of yours because of the amount of possible orders they could lose! Also it is much better for drivers to be able to to pull their wagon up outside their own workshop on return to the yard, also your fleet engineer & your own fitters will have far more interest in the wagons than I think Dealership fitters may have in a lot of cases, because I think to them at times itâs just another wagon . I also think that scheduled servicing at a main dealer is all well & good, but sometimes some parts/components need extra greasing/tightening up etc outside the routine servicing, this too is a lot easier to do with your own workshops on site. But the cost nowadays of running your own workshop must be horrendous, with the fault diagnostic computers etc needed to maintain todayâs modern wagons!
Regards Chris
Your analogy is spot on âADRâ,with the right Fleet Engineer and fitters all of whom took a pride in âtheirâ fleet and no small repair or minor adjustment between services was too much trouble.The same approach was applied to tyre management and I well recall how our own tyre fitter operated,as motors ran in to or passed through the depot he would wander round them with his âtappingâ hammer checking all the tyres,occaisionally he would find a low pressure or damaged case which would be dealt with immeadiately,we saved a fortune with this method,he paid his wages many times over ! However,all this kind of attention has long disappeared as itâs all wrapped up in leasing deals which include tyres and maintainence but is tied to fixed mileages so anything in between becomes a battle of wits as to who âPaysâ,the Operator or the Leasing company so invariably things are ignored until the next service or are the subject of an expensive roadside breakdown.The main difference between nowadays and yesteryear was the fact that we,along with most other hauliers, owned their rolling( albeit purchasing over 3 years or so in some cases) stock and never used short term leasing where the motors were returned after 3 years or so.Just my observations and recollection of years ago,others may have a differing opinion.Cheers Bewick.
If thooâs trying to spoil me Sunday dinner Hodge,thooâs garn the reet way aboot it Marra eh! Oh! and here is a shot from happier days,dunno who the ugly â â â â is stood in front of E861REC,it was one of the few new Scanias I bought off Grahams I got a 6X2 pcab at the same time E862REC eh! Cheers Dennis.
If thooâs trying to spoil me Sunday dinner Hodge,thooâs garn the reet way aboot it Marra eh! Oh! and here is a shot from happier days,dunno who the ugly [zb] is stood in front of E861REC,it was one of the few new Scanias I bought off Grahams I got a 6X2 pcab at the same time E862REC eh! Cheers Dennis.
i"m sure we can find some red and white paint dennis
shirtbox2003:
didnât expect the burn it comment bewick.it must have made you a few bob.should be proud of the old girl.!regards, jack preston.
Itâs only a lump of metal and rubber Jack not a Horse Although it did bear the fleet name âMy Birthdayâ which was the first harness race horse I owned but obviously it was repainted into WRM livery after I had left the group so any further sentiment on my part disappeared with the spray gun so donât take it personal,lifes too short to get sentimental Cheers Bewick.
If thooâs trying to spoil me Sunday dinner Hodge,thooâs garn the reet way aboot it Marra eh! Oh! and here is a shot from happier days,dunno who the ugly [zb] is stood in front of E861REC,it was one of the few new Scanias I bought off Grahams I got a 6X2 pcab at the same time E862REC eh! Cheers Dennis.
i"m sure we can find some red and white paint dennis
False alarm Paul,just had a great Sunday dinner,nice lump of lamb eh! it would tek a fair upset to knock me off me scran eh! Cheers Dennis.
Bewick:
Your analogy is spot on âADRâ,with the right Fleet Engineer and fitters all of whom took a pride in âtheirâ fleet and no small repair or minor adjustment between services was too much trouble.The same approach was applied to tyre management and I well recall how our own tyre fitter operated,as motors ran in to or passed through the depot he would wander round them with his âtappingâ hammer checking all the tyres,occaisionally he would find a low pressure or damaged case which would be dealt with immeadiately,we saved a fortune with this method,he paid his wages many times over ! However,all this kind of attention has long disappeared as itâs all wrapped up in leasing deals which include tyres and maintainence but is tied to fixed mileages so anything in between becomes a battle of wits as to who âPaysâ,the Operator or the Leasing company so invariably things are ignored until the next service or are the subject of an expensive roadside breakdown.The main difference between nowadays and yesteryear was the fact that we,along with most other hauliers, owned their rolling( albeit purchasing over 3 years or so in some cases) stock and never used short term leasing where the motors were returned after 3 years or so.Just my observations and recollection of years ago,others may have a differing opinion.Cheers Bewick.
A couple of observations. Iâve always been an advocate of using premium brand tyres and looking after them. They are the money saving option in the long run. However, because the company I work for now does plenty of construction site work and scrap is often a backload we run a budget tyre policy. The reasoning being a jagged piece of metal doesnât differentiate between an expensive tyre and a cheap one when it rips into a sidewall. Our tyre costs per mile are about 50% higher than the national average. Last week we had two trailer tyre blow outs and a scrapyard metal puncture on a unit, three new tyres needed in a week for a 17 vehicle fleet, about par for the course for us. Short term leasing is acceptable if you have nailed-down certain daily work, such as contracts, but not good for the vagaries of varying levels of general haulage work, as we have discovered to our cost.
. You have run British/French/German/Swedish wagons, no doubt you have had your favourites, but 1 make I canât see you ever running, or there are pics on here of are DAFâs? Is there a particular reason for that, or when you were in the market for new wagons they just didnât offer you a deal that was worth it? Regards Chris
Scania all the way
Cheers Mr.Bewick.
Cheers Dennis.
Bewick.
The only other people we allowed near our motors although mainly the trailers was tyre fitters as we didnât carry spares so on the odd occaision we had a tyre breakdown we had, a) a new Michelin fitted or b) either a Bridgestone or a Toyo fitted,the damaged case was returned with the motor for us to look at and the new case would be removed by our tyre fitter and replaced with a similar case to match the rest on that trailer or tractor.Boring I know but our methods kept our tyre costs low over the years.Cheers Bewick.
so donât take it personal,lifes too short to get sentimental 
