Shep532… I’ve given you plenty of stick in the past on here when you have attempted to justify dcpc, regs, and all the rest of the ■■■■■■■■. So it’s only fair to redress the balance.
This time I agree entirely with you, points well made, true,and well said…you must be slipping 
robroy:
carryfast-yeti:
it hasn’t ‘always been like this’…it used to be 12 and a half hours max. including 2x 45 minute breaks on a spreadover in the 1980’sYeh I know, I just said that.
sorry,couldn’t be bothered to read all the posts!
robroy:
Shep532… I’ve given you plenty of stick in the past on here when you have attempted to justify dcpc, regs, and all the rest of the ■■■■■■■■. So it’s only fair to redress the balance.
This time I agree entirely with you, points well made, true,and well said…you must be slipping
Sorry - I forgot I needed to antogonise you
I’ll try harder
The thing I don’t understand is.
A lot of drivers always say well back in the 80s blah blah blah.
Why if the money was so great and rates were amazing. Why would you go along with the big changes that have made you skint over the past 30 years.
I think the wages are pretty fair for what I do on a day to day or week to week basis.
Compared to other people I know doing different jobs.
It’s not just the haulage industry most trades are in the same boat.
Everyone was making the same wages in 1990 and 2000 as what they are now.
There is hardly any trades and workers wages that have matched inflation over the past 30 years.
Id like to agree with carryfast . for a change
Its not really 15hr days we need to address , but reduced break per spreadover .
Ive often thought that defining a day as 24hrs for our purposes is dumb .
Perhaps instead of reducing break / 24 hour …
It would make more sense to increase the day definintion to say 27 hours twice a week .say .
Then if u needed 15 hour day you would need 12 hour min break !!
You getting my drift here ■■
This would be a bit self regulating as obviously your starts would slip .
Know some rough edges to my new hour regs , but its the general point that this would make more sense , and be safer than reducing break
Themoocher:
The thing I don’t understand is.
A lot of drivers always say well back in the 80s blah blah blah.
Why if the money was so great and rates were amazing. Why would you go along with the big changes that have made you skint over the past 30 years.
Not just the pay, but the role in general. All this crud of timed deliveries, the customer being able to track the load and in some cases, even call the driver on the cabphone, just leads to increased pressure on the driver and I daresay the reason some drive like absolute buttholes on the road, without a minute to live.
Then you have the enforcement agencies out there now. Public enemy number one hasn’t got their digicard with them even though they in analogue tacho vehicle, no warning just an immediate fine (kerching). Ooops someone has filched the spare tacho rolls even though there a full one in the machine, no warning just an immediate fine (kerching). Wow this reprobate can’t find his Mickey Mouse DQC - break out the tasers. 
Drivers only earn decent wages by working very long hours. How many times have most of us driven past a pub at 6.30pm where everyone else has finished for the day and spending some quality time with their friends and family?
LIBERTY_GUY:
Themoocher:
The thing I don’t understand is.
A lot of drivers always say well back in the 80s blah blah blah.
Why if the money was so great and rates were amazing. Why would you go along with the big changes that have made you skint over the past 30 years.Not just the pay, but the role in general. All this crud of timed deliveries, the customer being able to track the load and in some cases, even call the driver on the cabphone, just leads to increased pressure on the driver and I daresay the reason some drive like absolute buttholes on the road, without a minute to live.
Then you have the enforcement agencies out there now. Public enemy number one hasn’t got their digicard with them even though they in analogue tacho vehicle, no warning just an immediate fine (kerching). Ooops someone has filched the spare tacho rolls even though there a full one in the machine, no warning just an immediate fine (kerching). Wow this reprobate can’t find his Mickey Mouse DQC - break out the tasers.
Drivers only earn decent wages by working very long hours. How many times have most of us driven past a pub at 6.30pm where everyone else has finished for the day and spending some quality time with their friends and family?
I think you are exagerating slightly regarding the enforcement but take your point.
As for passing a pub at 18:30 and everyone has finished for the day … we can all choose to do that but we choose not to. The question would be how much have they all earnt? Chances are the HGV driver rumbling past is clocking up more pay at the end of the week/month and possibly chooses to do so - or lets his employer push him to do so.
I worked in an office environment for a good few years where I was involved in payroll each week. A high percentage of drivers took more money home than I did - good on them - they deserved it. I worked long hours with 15 hour days not unusual and the phone didn’t stop when I got home either. There again when work was short I still earned the same whereas drivers wages were down. I didn’t spend a portion of my day lying in a bunk either. But it is each to our own. We choose our employment. I got out of it because it was slowly doing my head in 
I think we have to appreciate that some of the people we see going home and think ‘lucky buggers’ don’t have the earning potential a driver can have. Alternatively they have chosen a career path that allows them family time etc.
I don’t think there are many that have both good earning potential AND family/friends time. Those I know who do also have huge responsibilities and often great personal commitments to the business financially standing to lose a lot.
LIBERTY_GUY:
Not just the pay, but the role in general. All this crud of timed deliveries, the customer being able to track the load and in some cases, even call the driver on the cabphone, just leads to increased pressure on the driver and I daresay the reason some drive like absolute buttholes on the road, without a minute to live.Then you have the enforcement agencies out there now. Public enemy number one hasn’t got their digicard with them even though they in analogue tacho vehicle, no warning just an immediate fine (kerching). Ooops someone has filched the spare tacho rolls even though there a full one in the machine, no warning just an immediate fine (kerching). Wow this reprobate can’t find his Mickey Mouse DQC - break out the tasers.
Drivers only earn decent wages by working very long hours. How many times have most of us driven past a pub at 6.30pm where everyone else has finished for the day and spending some quality time with their friends and family?
While i agree with the sentiment, don’t let anyone pressure you. I used to and got the fines and points to prove it. I’m just the thick as … driver i don’t do the planning. I’m running late i let them deal with it, let them take the pressure. I’m the idiot behind the wheel i let my superiors who planned the run badly deal with it. Not my fault the first drop took an hour extra to unload than planned, not my fault there was an accident. As long as i ain’t taking the ■■■■ whats the problem.
I always keep the tacho, cpc card and driving licence in my wallet, i take my wallet everywhere which means i never forget any of these things. I don’t see the point of these card holders round your neck or attached to your belt just the kinda thing your going to forgot to lift one morning when your running late. As for the spare tacho rolls get someone from somewhere keep a packet of them in your bag, never use them, never let anyone borrow them, keep them just in case you get pulled and need them, keep them along with some spare fuses, a spare dog clip for emergency when there is no other option but to use them.
Let’s get 15 hours banned
Would you rather do 3 X 15hrs only working 4 days a week or less hours but more days say 5x10 hrs?
I’d rather do more hours and less days as I do now,I’d hate to have to work 5 days a week now.
keepthefaith:
isn’t it about time that we humans got together and collectively refuse to be treated like slaves, fifteen hours working in a pressure cooker enviromment isn’t acceptable in this day and age …for anyone that is in favour of working fifteen hours i would love to know why…ta
10hrs a day is long enough to work while ever the industry can quote ''but you can work 15hrs driver ‘’ we will be treated like slaves
Maybe it’s just me but I was always brought up on ‘do as your told’ so when the TM tells you to do something, I do it. Unfortunately, that results in me working for longer than I want to. Perhaps these planners/TMs need to see things from our point of view. We want to see our families, and see the home we pay a fortune for. But also, perhaps the customer should start thinking that they can’t everything they want when they want it.
Personally I would not like to ban the 15 hour day as I feel it may make trying to get something done difficult in a job that is already not easy. There are plenty of restrictions on drivers hours and working for good reason, mainly safety and regulate competition which of course I would support, but the fines and penalties for going over these simply scare new young drivers and must be seen as a reason for the lack of drivers in the industry and coming to the industry.
If I gave a scenario of doing a 10h drive, that’s 5h left, minus 2 45min breaks you have 3 and a half hours to get stuck at lights, stuck on the m6, re load, or get a new trailer. The fact is sometimes your on a bay for longer and want to get home or go for a boat. Some boys are paid by the hour, they need that extra wee bit to make ends meet. There really isn’t a reason to ban 15 hour working days because if the only reason you want to is because a harder working chap who likes to make progress wants to use it and it makes you look bad well then tough. I feel banning the 15 hour day would be (another) backward step in the industry. But here that’s my opinion, each to their own.
gettin-on:
truckman020:
Suedehead:
Surely working for 15 hours day is illegalif I remember correctly[and I could be wrong]but I think you are allowed to work 15 hrs 3 days a week on spreadover,personally employers can stuff hrs like that,max for me is 12
Technically can do 15 hr spread everyday
A lot of container drivers doUsing the split rest and 3 hours break during the day
bugger that,bad enough doing twelve
taffytrucker:
Carryfast:
To be fair log books rather than tachos would be a great help in that regard.But it isn’t really a 15 it’s actually a reduced daily between shifts which obviously doesn’t matter so much if it runs into a weekly.Yeaaaaaaaa go back to logbooks so employers can really take the pish put of the driver
You seem to be conveniently ignoring the fact that log books can and usually did work more in the driver’s favour than the guvnor’s.Bearing in mind that with those he didn’t know about unauthorised breaks and/or when a driver finished early or started late on tramping.In addition to the example of tachos forcing a stop to the minute in the case of looking for decent parking facilities or getting back to the yard.
LIBERTY_GUY:
Themoocher:
The thing I don’t understand is.
A lot of drivers always say well back in the 80s blah blah blah.
Why if the money was so great and rates were amazing. Why would you go along with the big changes that have made you skint over the past 30 years.Not just the pay, but the role in general. All this crud of timed deliveries, the customer being able to track the load and in some cases, even call the driver on the cabphone, just leads to increased pressure on the driver and I daresay the reason some drive like absolute buttholes on the road, without a minute to live.
Then you have the enforcement agencies out there now. Public enemy number one hasn’t got their digicard with them even though they in analogue tacho vehicle, no warning just an immediate fine (kerching). Ooops someone has filched the spare tacho rolls even though there a full one in the machine, no warning just an immediate fine (kerching). Wow this reprobate can’t find his Mickey Mouse DQC - break out the tasers.
I don’t drive faster cause someone tells me.
If I don’t think I’m going get a drop done or get to some where il tell them when they text me the job. That’s tight I might not make that for a giving time. If I make it I make it if not il park up and won’t lose any sleep about it.Drivers only earn decent wages by working very long hours. How many times have most of us driven past a pub at 6.30pm where everyone else has finished for the day and spending some quality time with their friends and family?
I don’t drive faster cause someone tells me.
If I don’t think I’m going get a drop done or get to some where il tell them when they text me the job. That’s tight I might not make that for a giving time. If I make it I make it if not il park up and won’t lose any sleep about it.
I also don’t see what the problem with trackers are either unless your ripping the arse out it in a lay by for hours everyday and got something to hide.
A lot of days I sit for hours at a time with my thumb up my arse getting paid straight through for 13 or 15 hrs shift. When I add my weekly WTD I very rarely go over 45hrs actual work. on what I would say is ok money for doing nothing.
boredwivdrivin:
Id like to agree with carryfast . for a changeIts not really 15hr days we need to address , but reduced break per spreadover .
Ive often thought that defining a day as 24hrs for our purposes is dumb .
Perhaps instead of reducing break / 24 hour …
It would make more sense to increase the day definintion to say 27 hours twice a week .say .
Then if u needed 15 hour day you would need 12 hour min break !!
You getting my drift here ■■
This would be a bit self regulating as obviously your starts would slip .
Know some rough edges to my new hour regs , but its the general point that this would make more sense , and be safer than reducing break
In most cases a 12 hour minimum daily rest ‘between shifts’ would effectively mean a 12 hour maximum shift anyway just as a 9 hour daily rest period generally translates as 15 hour shifts.However it obviously also disproves the the bs red herring of not being able to get home on a Friday used by the pro reduced 9 hours daily rest lot.IE there’s no need for a 27 hour day under those rules as it’s the rest period ‘between shifts’ which matters and running into a weekly rest period doesn’t fit the definition of between shifts.To stop the scenario of someone legally being behind the wheel of a truck having possibly/probably had ( a lot ) less than 8 hours sleep between shifts.Which as I’ve said makes a mockery of the bs driving time limits.Realistically what I’m saying is get back to a simplifed and more finely tuned version of domestic regs. 
Themoocher:
LIBERTY_GUY:
Themoocher:
The thing I don’t understand is.
A lot of drivers always say well back in the 80s blah blah blah.
Why if the money was so great and rates were amazing. Why would you go along with the big changes that have made you skint over the past 30 years.Not just the pay, but the role in general. All this crud of timed deliveries, the customer being able to track the load and in some cases, even call the driver on the cabphone, just leads to increased pressure on the driver and I daresay the reason some drive like absolute buttholes on the road, without a minute to live.
Then you have the enforcement agencies out there now. Public enemy number one hasn’t got their digicard with them even though they in analogue tacho vehicle, no warning just an immediate fine (kerching). Ooops someone has filched the spare tacho rolls even though there a full one in the machine, no warning just an immediate fine (kerching). Wow this reprobate can’t find his Mickey Mouse DQC - break out the tasers.
I don’t drive faster cause someone tells me.
If I don’t think I’m going get a drop done or get to some where il tell them when they text me the job. That’s tight I might not make that for a giving time. If I make it I make it if not il park up and won’t lose any sleep about it.Drivers only earn decent wages by working very long hours. How many times have most of us driven past a pub at 6.30pm where everyone else has finished for the day and spending some quality time with their friends and family?
I don’t drive faster cause someone tells me.
If I don’t think I’m going get a drop done or get to some where il tell them when they text me the job. That’s tight I might not make that for a giving time. If I make it I make it if not il park up and won’t lose any sleep about it.I also don’t see what the problem with trackers are either unless your ripping the arse out it in a lay by for hours everyday and got something to hide.
You personally might not be driving like a nutter, but you don’t have to go far to find trucks being driven on the limiter in torrential downpours, thick fog, snow and other treacherous conditions. Ditto the so called ‘professional drivers’ riding inches away from the vehicle in front through roadworks, when that vehicle in front is strictly adhering to the speed limit. Say what you will, but there are waaay more accidents nowadays where only trucks are involved, or the truck is the principle instigator of said accident.
LIBERTY_GUY:
Themoocher:
LIBERTY_GUY:
Themoocher:
The thing I don’t understand is.
A lot of drivers always say well back in the 80s blah blah blah.
Why if the money was so great and rates were amazing. Why would you go along with the big changes that have made you skint over the past 30 years.Not just the pay, but the role in general. All this crud of timed deliveries, the customer being able to track the load and in some cases, even call the driver on the cabphone, just leads to increased pressure on the driver and I daresay the reason some drive like absolute buttholes on the road, without a minute to live.
Then you have the enforcement agencies out there now. Public enemy number one hasn’t got their digicard with them even though they in analogue tacho vehicle, no warning just an immediate fine (kerching). Ooops someone has filched the spare tacho rolls even though there a full one in the machine, no warning just an immediate fine (kerching). Wow this reprobate can’t find his Mickey Mouse DQC - break out the tasers.
I don’t drive faster cause someone tells me.
If I don’t think I’m going get a drop done or get to some where il tell them when they text me the job. That’s tight I might not make that for a giving time. If I make it I make it if not il park up and won’t lose any sleep about it.Drivers only earn decent wages by working very long hours. How many times have most of us driven past a pub at 6.30pm where everyone else has finished for the day and spending some quality time with their friends and family?
I don’t drive faster cause someone tells me.
If I don’t think I’m going get a drop done or get to some where il tell them when they text me the job. That’s tight I might not make that for a giving time. If I make it I make it if not il park up and won’t lose any sleep about it.I also don’t see what the problem with trackers are either unless your ripping the arse out it in a lay by for hours everyday and got something to hide.
You personally might not be driving like a nutter, but you don’t have to go far to find trucks being driven on the limiter in torrential downpours, thick fog, snow and other treacherous conditions. Ditto the so called ‘professional drivers’ riding inches away from the vehicle in front through roadworks, when that vehicle in front is strictly adhering to the speed limit. Say what you will, but there are waaay more accidents nowadays where only trucks are involved, or the truck is the principle instigator of said accident.
I think a massive factor to accidents is there is a lot more vehicles on the road now as well.
Everyone Seems to be in a rush now not just trucks.
LIBERTY_GUY:
Themoocher:
LIBERTY_GUY:
Themoocher:
The thing I don’t understand is.
A lot of drivers always say well back in the 80s blah blah blah.
Why if the money was so great and rates were amazing. Why would you go along with the big changes that have made you skint over the past 30 years.Not just the pay, but the role in general. All this crud of timed deliveries, the customer being able to track the load and in some cases, even call the driver on the cabphone, just leads to increased pressure on the driver and I daresay the reason some drive like absolute buttholes on the road, without a minute to live.
Then you have the enforcement agencies out there now. Public enemy number one hasn’t got their digicard with them even though they in analogue tacho vehicle, no warning just an immediate fine (kerching). Ooops someone has filched the spare tacho rolls even though there a full one in the machine, no warning just an immediate fine (kerching). Wow this reprobate can’t find his Mickey Mouse DQC - break out the tasers.
I don’t drive faster cause someone tells me.
If I don’t think I’m going get a drop done or get to some where il tell them when they text me the job. That’s tight I might not make that for a giving time. If I make it I make it if not il park up and won’t lose any sleep about it.Drivers only earn decent wages by working very long hours. How many times have most of us driven past a pub at 6.30pm where everyone else has finished for the day and spending some quality time with their friends and family?
I don’t drive faster cause someone tells me.
If I don’t think I’m going get a drop done or get to some where il tell them when they text me the job. That’s tight I might not make that for a giving time. If I make it I make it if not il park up and won’t lose any sleep about it.I also don’t see what the problem with trackers are either unless your ripping the arse out it in a lay by for hours everyday and got something to hide.
You personally might not be driving like a nutter, but you don’t have to go far to find trucks being driven on the limiter in torrential downpours, thick fog, snow and other treacherous conditions. Ditto the so called ‘professional drivers’ riding inches away from the vehicle in front through roadworks, when that vehicle in front is strictly adhering to the speed limit. Say what you will, but there are waaay more accidents nowadays where only trucks are involved, or the truck is the principle instigator of said accident.
For the purposes of the topic it’s more a case of accidents,or potential accidents,caused by knackered drivers who have inevitably compromised on sleep to meet the reduced daily rest regulation.
While added to that is drivers who are driving,when they feel like taking an unauthorised break,because of the idea of tachos let alone trackers.