robroy:
scanny77:
. If I didn’t have a 15 available then I would have had to weekend out in a truck less than an hour from the depot.Yeh but you wouldn’t would you
Would you?
To be fair log books rather than tachos would be a great help in that regard.But it isn’t really a 15 it’s actually a reduced daily between shifts which obviously doesn’t matter so much if it runs into a weekly. 
So if workers cannot be forced to do 15, in theory the rules should be written that the hours can be extended to 15 for operational purposes, running back to depot, traffic delays etc. And presumably an office should not plan for more than 12 (13 - lunch break)
KarlM:
So if workers cannot be forced to do 15, in theory the rules should be written that the hours can be extended to 15 for operational purposes, running back to depot, traffic delays etc. And presumably an office should not plan for more than 12 (13 - lunch break)
If you’re in a situation of needing 5-6 hours of shift time,in addition to a 9 or 10 hour max driving limit,they’ve obviously already ‘planned’ it.The clue is that it’s the duty time that’s effectively been extended by reducing the rest period between shifts.Nothing to do with ‘getting home’ at all. 
I tramp and never ■■■■■ in a plastic bag.
I wouldn’t want to be parked up for 12 hours everyday bored.
I want to be working solid with an easy 5 days work then relax over the weekend.
If the day boys team can’t handle the long shifts n commutes n what ever else excuse.
40hrs at tesco or asda stacking shelves clearing £240 a week might be a much better alternative. 
Carryfast:
robroy:
scanny77:
. If I didn’t have a 15 available then I would have had to weekend out in a truck less than an hour from the depot.Yeh but you wouldn’t would you
Would you?To be fair log books rather than tachos would be a great help in that regard.But it isn’t really a 15 it’s actually a reduced daily between shifts which obviously doesn’t matter so much if it runs into a weekly.
Yeaaaaaaaa go back to logbooks so employers can really take the pish put of the driver
In all fairness long hours have always been part of truck driving if you don’t like it get another job
.
keepthefaith:
LIBERTY_GUY:
Currently driving less than 40 hours a week for a utilities business. Good rate of pay, but lose out compared to the typical 55 hour week I used to work. My home is paid for, so I can afford to live working less hours, but many drivers can’t, hence they work long hours.it’s six hours extra in your pay packet for a working week that zombies wouldn’t do, i’m sure that the majority of drivers would
be in favour of banning them ,anyone for them i’d love to know why
Unless my maths is radically adrift, my ‘loss’ is more than six hours pay. About £150 week down before tax. Have to look at the bigger picture though, that I am home before quarter to four every afternoon, spend most of my time in rural areas and don’t have to venture into gridlocked city centres any more. Trouble with many hauliers, is that they forget drivers have homes and families away from the truck.
I could do shorter days but that would mean the same amount of work would mean working a sixth day. No thanks.
15 hour days for me are fine, I tramp and enjoy it. Some days I work 15 and have 10 or 11 hours off, still counts as a 15 but I like to start later on Fridays so I can get finished for 6pm miss the rush hour and drive home into the open legs of my beloved.
Wouldnt like to do 15’s if I wasnt tramping but im a card out / ■■■■ out kind of guy so once im parked up and done me end of day checks theres plenty of time to relax in the truck, no hassle free to do whatever I want. Usually a couple of beers and some light tribbing. No issues with getting a shower, keeping clean etc on the open road. I even choose to shower in work time, be rude not to when I can get paid for it.
That said being on boxes I could only work 8 or 9 hours in a 15 due to long tips and plenty of breaks (not POA its frowned upon as being a silly mode by me and quite a few others).
In reality though a full 15 is quite rare for me, 14 hour days with 10 off is my norm, maybe the odd 14.5.
A whole week of 14-15hour days can be tiring though but im not forced to do them, I choose this profession for the long hours, low pay and a passion for driving big trucks to compensate for having a small ■■■■■.
Right, I aint under the influence of Mr Becks this morning, so no more contradicting myself, and putting my foot in my gob like last night.
Been thinking about this, and as I said previously, in my opinion 15 is too long. maybe not ban it, but change the max hours rules, with say concessions for catching ferries, and unforseens etc.
■■■■■■■■ to all the Big butch Supertrucker stars/ 24 hr day men 
who say…(whiny voice)^ 'Well it’s always been like this, if you don’t like it work at Tescos stacking shelves. …yawn ■■■■■■ yawn.
Well you know what? …it hasn’t always been like that!
Some of us that have done it longer than 5minutes can remember a 12.5 spreadover with adequate rest ,(btw. so you don’t want to spend x. number of hours in your cab…ahhh! .well get out of your ■■■■■■ cabs like everyone used to, instead of parking in a ■■■■■■ lay by with your stop watch set to 8hrs 59secs )
So when the 15 did come out I was an owner driver, didn’t give a ■■■■, and thought bring it on, more hours more money for ME.
At that time drivers, and before it, me as a driver employed, were on time and half after 8.
The powers that be thought…
‘’ Whoa…hang on a minute we can’t be paying these drivers time and half after 8,. for a whole 7 hrs.per day.
That would mean us trying to negotiate new rates with customers, because Teddy Robarts and others the like will do the work for the same rate and we will all be ■■■■ ed…
So instead, let’s devise some system to screw the drivers, over. So we’ll give em time and a Pound after 10 hours, or I know,… pay them what they think is a decent rate right through, they are SO THICK they won’t notice, they will work every day to the max and not notice they are being turned over, by getting slightly more for longer hours worked.
( and this is the best bit) They will boast in 30 yrs time when internet forums are invented that they are on a good wage, even though the few sensible ones on there, who see the real picture know they are NOT due to the long hours’’
With me so far?
They went on to say.
…'‘And the way their pay is structured, in reality they are not in fact paid well, but however on a wage they can live on.
We can get the same rates, the drivers will max out to 15 hours, we make more money, the drivers in real terms make less, but they will look at their top line and boast…hey everybody’s happy for the next few years, …and the next generation will think it’ s notmal as they will know nothing else except the new system… job sorted for us hauliers…yipee 
Ok, I wasn’t in the same room and witnessed all this but you get the general idea eh?
Have I finally got through to the hard of thinking on here, who say if you don’t like the job go and work at ■■■■■■ Tescos etc etc I somehow think not unfortunately…pork/educate/ can’t etc.
As for the day lads who worry about having to have a night out, if there was no 15 facility, your planners would have to get their arses into gear, do their job properly and plan accordinglly for a 13 instead or whatever the new rules may be.
You wouldn!t care as ideally your wage structure would be that so you could earn enough for a 13.
Those that say if the wage structure changed ( so that drivers were no longer compensating hauliers for bad rates, and therefore subsidising their wage by not getting a realistic rate) That firms would go down, who actually gives a flying ■■■■ if a few 7 quid an hour cowboys went ■■■■ up.■■
Get the industry cleaned up in line with others so that we too again can have a reasonable working day, instead of a work/sleep endurance test type job like a lot ( on here evidently ) treat it.
Off for a coffee to sort my hangover out.
robroy:
scanny77:
. If I didn’t have a 15 available then I would have had to weekend out in a truck less than an hour from the depot.Yeh but you wouldn’t would you
Would you?
Not by choice but I would have to use my own time and money to make my own way back to the depot. This is where the regulations need changing. What difference does it make if you get a taxi or a lift in the truck you ran out of time in? Either way you are a passenger trying to get back to your car so you can go home
scanny77:
robroy:
scanny77:
. If I didn’t have a 15 available then I would have had to weekend out in a truck less than an hour from the depot.Yeh but you wouldn’t would you
Would you?Not by choice but I would have to use my own time and money to make my own way back to the depot. This is where the regulations need changing. What difference does it make if you get a taxi or a lift in the truck you ran out of time in? Either way you are a passenger trying to get back to your car so you can go home
I agree mate, just another example of badly thought out bloody stupid rules.
If I’m faced with walking home in the ■■■■■■■ rain or getting a lift off my mate from same co.folowing me, what am I going to do in the REAL world.?
Just to make it a little worse, I was referring to a weekly rest. Had that been a daily rest and they needed the truck then I would be taking longer to return to depot which then reduces the time I have at home getting some sleep.
Running out of time and the company being perfectly within their rights to rescue their truck but not the driver is absolutely bonkers. How did this make sense to those that come up with this rubbish?
Conor:
The total time spent at work absolutely has a bearing on your overall tiredness.
I agree, that’s why I said it had a “tiny factor” in your overall tiredness if you’ve had had a Dipper Dave kind of day on boxes, where you have probably garnered enough break time to have masturbated yourself silly, and catch a few z’s, I would hazard you probably wouldn’t be as tired as the fella who has driven for 9 hours and worked for 5 hours too.
If you don’t like something about your workload, or work/life balance, then we are all adults, talk to someone about it and change it. It never ceases to amaze me how much workers try and change stuff for “everyone” because something doesn’t suit them and a couple of their mates from the pub.
Honestly you guys should run for government, you’ll be paid to force poorly thought out ideas on everyone…
taz1972:
keepthefaith:
isn’t it about time that we humans got together and collectively refuse to be treated like slaves, fifteen hours working in a pressure cooker enviromment isn’t acceptable in this day and age …for anyone that is in favour of working fifteen hours i would love to know why…taTransport has all ways been like this so if you are not happy working in transport get a job in a shop easy
it hasn’t ‘always been like this’…it used to be 12 and a half hours max. including 2x 45 minute breaks on a spreadover in the 1980’s
scanny77:
Just to make it a little worse, I was referring to a weekly rest. Had that been a daily rest and they needed the truck then I would be taking longer to return to depot which then reduces the time I have at home getting some sleep.
Running out of time and the company being perfectly within their rights to rescue their truck but not the driver is absolutely bonkers. How did this make sense to those that come up with this rubbish?
I don’t think it would make sense to those that wrote the rules because they didn’t believe for one minute an employer would treat an employee that way. They didn’t interpret what they wrote as saying what the british think it says. Maybe they don’t live in the real world.
We have to remember these are European rules and come from a land where workers are treated differently. I lived in germany for years and often saw English workers ‘grabbing’ for overtime but German workers would say “Nein” and work to rule. They seemed to value their home lives/health far more than us brits.
I think when the EU Drivers Hours Rules were devised they were designed to give plenty of flexibility to cover all aspects of the job and what can go wrong meaning when needed a driver had extra time without breaking the law. The reduced daily rests are there for ‘just in case’ - of course nothing in the rules says this because in my opinion, in Europe land they don’t need to - the worker and employer treats the rules that way.
I have already spent an hour typing a response to this post and then deleting it and doing it again multiple times because it turned into a 10,000 word essay. It is such a complex issue with so many discussions to be had and so many opinions and situations to be taken into account. It seems to me the main problem is that the industry as a whole has allowed rates to be driven down and their services to be undervalued by the service users (customers). Due to the diminishing profits employee pay rates have fallen (or not risen) meaning the average Joe driver might now need to work long hours to earn a decent average wage.
I do meet drivers who appear to be on a good rate and appear to be treated for what they are - an essential, valued employee with a specialist skill set - a professional. Unfortunately most of these tend to seem to work for Restricted Licence Operators - i.e. NOT HAULIERS!
The fault is the industry not the E U Rules. There are no rules to stop a shelf stacker in Asda working 20 hour shifts - but it doesn’t happen because the employer says no and even those who want to can’t usually do it. They would rather pay 2 workers to cover 2 shifts than pay 1 to do a double shift. In the General Haulage Industry it seems a lot of employers have no thoughts for the Drivers’ health/well being or family life. Maybe this is because the TM or Boss is also working double shifts and has no family life? He has to because the rates are so ■■■■ he has no choice.
I can see all sides of the ‘argument’ posted on this thread. Those who wouldn’t work those hours and can’t understand anyone who does. Those who would rather work their arse off whilst at work then get home and have a life and those doing whatever is necessery to pay for that holiday or that latest curved screen TV.
The Rules ‘allow’ us to do what suits us. We just have to remember these ‘15 hour days’ are not targets, they are limits.
And before I carry on with another 8500 words - I think Carryfast has hit the nail on the head. Max 12 hour day, minimum 12 hour rest sounds good to me.
I once tried to bring a similar rule in as company policy. After lots of persuasion I got approval to do it. it would have meant a massive change to the way the company operated and possibly a drop in profits but in the end the management team agreed that it would be better for peoples health and home lives etc. When we put the idea to the workers - not a flamin chance! All hell broke loose and there was no way they were gonna accept it. Why? because of the crappy hourly rate we paid. They would have lost too much money. We couldn’t pay a higher rate - there wasn’t the money there to do it. Catch 22 I suppose.
In answer to the OP - I don’t think they need banning by law. Those who want to do them carry on. Those who don’t - then don’t.
I wouldn’t like to see them banned as such, i did one of my 2 or 3 15’s of the last 5 years last week, it was one of those days were it all went wrong, a 12 hour planned day which just accumulated…all due to admin/supervisory/lower management incompetence as usual.
It was a 2 run day so if the limit had been 12.5 hours (which the legal limit was when i started lorry driving) they would have had to give me a different second run…such is life though and overall i do ok so if once in a while it goes ■■■■ up and i end up doing a long day it aint going to kill me.
Much depends on how you are paid and the type of job, i did years on car transporters where maximising your hours is the norm, the kit is expensive and the company cannot profitably operate on short hours (very difficult to double shift most transporter work) but they do pay serious money (not to sit on your arse in the cafe) for it so your extra 20 hours puts you into the higher tax band not just to give you a basic wage.
As Robroy points out, its the way the money is made up is the important bit and if you have any sense you’ll look at this before accepting a job.
I can’t be a hypocrit i worked long hours for bloody years, but always chased the money not the lorry make/type, and we didn’t ■■■■ it up the wall so the hard long work has been good for us, i’m paid salary now and average a 43 hour week so whilst i’ll do a 15 if its needed to complete the job, ie service the customer (thats the geezer who ultimately pays all our wages), its not something i have to do any more regularly and that too suits me now.
Each to their own, some drivers can cope with a days work day in day out, and some can’t…if the driver’s capable and wants the extra money, then so long as said driver isn’t being shafted dry by a con man pay scheme then let him be to earn some dosh.
There’s work enough out there for everyone.
keepthefaith:
fifteen hours working in a pressure cooker enviromment
The jobs a piece of ■■■■.
carryfast-yeti:
it hasn’t ‘always been like this’…it used to be 12 and a half hours max. including 2x 45 minute breaks on a spreadover in the 1980’s
Yeh I know, I just said that. 
