April 3rd

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
121

Bluey Circles:

discoman:
Comparisons of a truck driver to a train driver. Oh dear, a truck driver …takes a week. To pass a test to train a train driver takes. 12 months minimum …not as simple as a simple truck driving job … all due respects, people who would rather spend 5 days in a tin box rather than be at home with the family have themselves to blame… if not happy with your wage quit and move on …you lot choose to be mugged off by employers.

err - what exactly do train drivers do that is oh so onerous? no route planning as someone else is controlling the points, no steering wheel to attend to as they’re on rails. they did once have to look out for red lights but since they were going through them like london cyclists at rush hour, they have even automated that bit.

As for the STRIKE; no mention of it in google news search so clearly no one is taking this remotely seriously. Although some interesting stuff regarding the coal truckers bringing Pretoria to a standstill !

It’s a pity nothing will ever be organised as the job is more important than anyone ever gives credit for. Apart from the massive safety implications of operating lorries and the need for highly responsible pople to drive them - If HGV drivers walked out at midnight the UK would be in complete and utter chaos in under 24 hours, the lorry is vital to virtually everything that happens, esp now with our just-in-time infrastructure

It isn’t that train is more onerous than truck driving that them worth so much, there are 2 aspects to consider,

1, train driver on different lines cant just be interchanged, as they have to know and be certificated for line or stretch of line they drive. This means that if driver go on strike they cant just be replaced by drivers from another region, or in some cases the same line, but further along it. They know this and use to their advantage.

2, there is not an available pool of agency train drivers to step in to break the strike.

mshenderson:
people are saying hgv drivers are not skilled and are easy to replace,

You only have to look about you to see how low a skill level is needed to obtain the C/C+E licence, and that makes us easy to replace. Now I’m not saying that lots of us aren’t highly skilled, through experience and qualifications, but its not a pre requisite.

mshenderson:
I know my worth and what I would not work for,

Which is well and fine, if you live or are prepared to travel to where the money, but for instance, if you lived in Norfolk, or narrow down a bit more North Norfolk, then you’d find that regardless of your skill level the pay is rather more slim than would accept. So the choice then is to move your family to a new home, or travel and be away all week, or accept local pay rates. Everything has a context.

FYI I travel out of Norfolk and tramp.

122

@muckles

I disagree with that to a certain extent.

I agree it’s not the hardest job in the world and hate the comparisons with other roles.

I do however think it is a skill. Maybe not the hardest skill to learn but a skill never the less. My theory being - if I have a test that’s pass/fail (not like the DCPC, that’s a different argument) to complete in order to carry out that task - it’s a skill.

Plenty of people attempt and don’t pass.

As an in industry we do seem intent on treading ourselves down.

Maybe it’s some people’s disillusionment with the job, maybe it’s just those of us fed up with seeing the crap drivers (not just the actual driving but presentation, manner etc) and feel it now reflects all of us.

Maybe (and this is my opinion) it’s we’ve been told by employers and various agencies be it the government, MSA’s etc for that long that we are worth so little that we now actually believe it. They are wrong. We may not make the decisions but we are the gears that make the profit. Depending on our skill (whether you view it as such or not) is what enables that profit to be made.

I don’t in a million years think we are worth the same money as a pilot but I do think we are worth far more than the minimum wage.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

123

kjw21:
.

I don’t in a million years think we are worth the same money as a pilot but I do think we are worth far more than the minimum wage.

Many of us are on far more than the minimum wage :smiley: , some don’t warrant that much and you only have to look at some fleets to see the result :unamused:

124

kr79:
Any idea who’s behind this. Not seen or heard anything else about it

It’s a secret initiative from the powers that be to get everyone to strike so they can be sacked for breach of contract

then

they can say that companies are facing a driver shortage [emoji6]

But wait a minute we now have loads of unemployed drivers so let’s give them min wage jobs to get them back into work[emoji4][emoji4]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

125

True.

But a lot of firms that are employing drivers at min wage can afford to undercut a lot of our firms that aren’t.

That’s why even if we are earning more than others we should have an interest in those that don’t.

To put it bluntly and selfishly - I don’t want a minimum wage driver for a firm to come and undercut the rate to get my well paid work thus ending my well paid job.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

126

kjw21:
@muckles

I disagree with that to a certain extent.

I agree it’s not the hardest job in the world and hate the comparisons with other roles.

I do however think it is a skill. Maybe not the hardest skill to learn but a skill never the less. My theory being - if I have a test that’s pass/fail (not like the DCPC, that’s a different argument) to complete in order to carry out that task - it’s a skill.

Plenty of people attempt and don’t pass.

As an in industry we do seem intent on treading ourselves down.

Maybe it’s some people’s disillusionment with the job, maybe it’s just those of us fed up with seeing the crap drivers (not just the actual driving but presentation, manner etc) and feel it now reflects all of us.

Maybe (and this is my opinion) it’s we’ve been told by employers and various agencies be it the government, MSA’s etc for that long that we are worth so little that we now actually believe it. They are wrong. We may not make the decisions but we are the gears that make the profit. Depending on our skill (whether you view it as such or not) is what enables that profit to be made.

I don’t in a million years think we are worth the same money as a pilot but I do think we are worth far more than the minimum wage.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Ok fair point there is a test and that means something has to be learnt, but it’s still a very short training period and you can take somebody off the street and they’ll be earning the company money in 2 weeks. As for selling ourselves short, well I’m probably playing devils advocate, too many drivers seem to think they are keeping the country running and it’s really difficult driving a truck, but many workers operate complex machinery and there are many job vital to keep the company running.

But I agree we shouldn’t be on near minimum wage or even the living wage, but then if you pay that you’re probably getting the drivers you deserve.

127

kjw21:
True.

But a lot of firms that are employing drivers at min wage can afford to undercut a lot of our firms that aren’t.

That’s why even if we are earning more than others we should have an interest in those that don’t.

To put it bluntly and selfishly - I don’t want a minimum wage driver for a firm to come and undercut the rate to get my well paid work thus ending my well paid job.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

But that’s why any initiative to improve drivers pay and conditions needs to start with those that are paying crap wages, and not punish the employers who are offering fair pay and conditions

128

Spot on. And I can’t think of anything other than some sizeable firms going to the wall, due to fact of basically not being able to recruit, that’s going to solve this.

A strike is blatantly never going to happen. So it’s only going to be self inflicted damage by the under paying companies that’s ever actually going to actually occur.

Drivers need to stop under valuing themselves but then I can sympathise with an unemployed driver who has no choice.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

129

mshenderson:
Colin I do nights away, I am saying drivers will stay in the dark ages because they will not stick together.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ok got wrong end of the stick.Drivers dont stick together because there worried about money. Maybe if drivers stuck with each other in the 80s and 90s when the industry was at its peak it would be so diffrent today.

130

eddie snax:

eddie snax:
Ok, so you give them reasonable notice, and they get agency driver’s to cover your work, what was the point of your day off in regard to trying to force the issue of pay and conditions. The employer has still covered his commitments, and you’ve used some of the annual leave you’re entitled to anyway!

Honestscott76:
[The whole point was in relation to the topic, ‘a mass driver protest’. You were arguing it was not possible due to contractual reasons. I pointed out, ‘reasonable notice’ would satisfy any contractual obligations to any reasonable employer. No employee has to give reasons or justification as to how they use annual leave.

Bloody tablet! [emoji23]

In that case, you might as well get all your colleagues in a Union, organise a ballot in which a clear mandate for industrial action is secured and then give your employer notice as to when that will take place. The action then would have the cover of trade union laws, protecting you against any subsequent action the employer, and saving your annual leave for when you would rather use it.

A mass driver walkout would only have effect if it were wildcat action, which could jeopardise your future employment, as laid out by Juddian so concisely in an earlier post. The moment that you give your employer the required level of notice for annual leave, whether that be 1 week 1 month or more, they then have the opportunity to mitigate the effect of your absence. Unfortunately the notice period for unionised industrial action has the same effect, which is why they struggle to succeed with aswell, only that the union can organise a mass walkout, where as, your employer is unlikely to allow a mass booking of annual leave, even if you give them the required notice :unamused:

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
[emoji849][emoji849][emoji849][emoji849][emoji849]
No employee is obligated to specify how they use ‘annual leave’. < Full stop!

The fact that drivers across the country were taking identical days ‘in mass protest’ would raise such an issue it would be perilous for the companies to do anything silly.

I understand the issue is mere hypothesis but should the ‘majority’ of drivers take such action, the country would come to a standstill within a couple of days.

131

The best way to do it is prolonged action, this one day bollox doesn’t work and is just militant stupidity.

Plenty of warnings needed to trigger panic buying and the door to be opened for discussions pre strike (or a pre ■■■ moment if you prefer).

Fuel is normally the first to be panic brought, then food etc…

If I remember correctly it took 3-5 days before garages where seeing mass tailbacks and profiteering by said garages ramping the prices up.

Action like this can only be considered if the vast majority agree. Some semi skilled trucker (and I’m pushing it to call us that) not wanting to lose a weeks pay or quite possibly their job is not going to want to take part.

To be honest I detest thus stuff, it doesn’t work and always leaves the individual driver worse off.

Last time when the farmers got involved as well it achieved nothing, look at the price of fuel today.

That said if every driver in the UK took 2 weeks holiday at exactly the same time this would put the cat amongst the pigeons a bit. :wink:

132

eddie snax:

discoman:
Hang on, I didn’t say I was better than a person. I said I am above being a driver, that role is beneath me… I had a set amount of deliveries to be made in 5 days … poor planners, I did it in 4 got paid 5 days … you know job and knock. I decided as said jobs not for me … …

Just because you went on there for one week, and crucified the work even though you got paid the same, doesn’t make it any better, the lads that were on that job obviously had a nice little number going, didn’t have to bust a gut, get home on Friday job done. By running around it in one day less means that the employer will think, if that new guy can why these long timers do, and bang, cushy little number gone :unamused:

By saying that you are above being a driver, the role is beneath you, is in effect saying that you are better than Me. I’ve only ever wanted to drive trucks, from as young an age as I can remember. I’ve been an employed driver for 31 years, tramping for the best part of 27 years, yes the job has changed some for the worse some for the better, but nothing stands still. Sad as it might be to you, truck driving defines who I am, and I make no apology for that, especially to some one, who’s tried to walk in my shoes for one week, decided it wasn’t for them, that’s fine, but then comes here to tell me how wrong I’ve led my life, If I want to park in a ■■■■ stinking lay by, what is it to you, if I want to sit and cook at the side of my cab on a summer evening what is it to you, if I want to enjoy a beer and a chat to some other drivers in a truckstop what is to you. I don’t know what this life that you took too is, but I’m pleased its given you the life you yearned for. Don’t you dare have the audacity to tell Me I’m leading My life wrong, only My Wife has the right to do that, and She don’t, She accepts that this what I do, this is what defines Me, in fact Us, and so far its given us a good life.

I have not suggested for one moment I am better than you, I merely state, I won’t live in a tin box 5 days a week. I won’t miss out on my kids growing up to live in said box. … i am pleased you have found a job that is good for you… the 5 days I was supposed to do I was told, do it as you please u get paid for 5 days regardless. So why would I want to drag it out? … I prefer to be there for my kids school meetings etc… in my current role I am very happy it’s a great job.

133

Honestscott76:
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
[emoji849][emoji849][emoji849][emoji849][emoji849]
No employee is obligated to specify how they use ‘annual leave’. < Full stop!

The fact that drivers across the country were taking identical days ‘in mass protest’ would raise such an issue it would be perilous for the companies to do anything silly.

I understand the issue is mere hypothesis but should the ‘majority’ of drivers take such action, the country would come to a standstill within a couple of days.

Most companies I’ve worked for both in haulage and in other industries would never let all their employees take holiday on the same day, in fact have a policy of only having x number staff off in the same department at the same time.

Hence the rush at the start of the holiday year to booked a summed holiday during Summer Holiday school time.
And they are fully entitled to refuse a holiday request and also tell you when you can take your holiday, common for factory shutdowns.

When leave can and can’t be taken

Employers can:

tell their staff to take leave, eg bank holidays or Christmas
restrict when leave can be taken, eg at certain busy periods

134

Honestscott76:
[^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
[emoji849][emoji849][emoji849][emoji849][emoji849]
No employee is obligated to specify how they use ‘annual leave’. < Full stop!

The fact that drivers across the country were taking identical days ‘in mass protest’ would raise such an issue it would be perilous for the companies to do anything silly.

I understand the issue is mere hypothesis but should the ‘majority’ of drivers take such action, the country would come to a standstill within a couple of days.

But the fact is that most companies don’t allow more than about 5 to 10% of their employees of at any one time, they wont ask why you want the day, they’ll just book agency cover to manage it, and in that way a mass protest falls flat

135

Genuine question - can’t you self certify going sick for one day with basically no questions asked?

(Assuming you had a relatively clean sickness record)

Surely if this is the case then that’s the most disruptive method for a large amount of staff to coordinate a day off.

136

If you want to know why you never earn a respectable wage and never will just read this post

137

kjw21:
Genuine question - can’t you self certify going sick for one day with basically no questions asked?

(Assuming you had a relatively clean sickness record)

Surely if this is the case then that’s the most disruptive method for a large amount of staff to coordinate a day off.

A few people have mentioned going sick on this day. So the employer won’t find out that you are actually protesting…

Surely this is a joke??

You are protesting about pay and conditions but are frightened that your employer will find out? Surely the point of a protest is to show your discontent not hide it?

138

I don’t even think truck drivers would be demanding more money I think most of us would be happy to be on a normal working week and it be our choice to work extra hrs

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

139

Darkside:

kjw21:
Genuine question - can’t you self certify going sick for one day with basically no questions asked?

(Assuming you had a relatively clean sickness record)

Surely if this is the case then that’s the most disruptive method for a large amount of staff to coordinate a day off.

A few people have mentioned going sick on this day. So the employer won’t find out that you are actually protesting…

Surely this is a joke??

You are protesting about pay and conditions but are frightened that your employer will find out? Surely the point of a protest is to show your discontent not hide it?

I gather that you have tipped off Downton chiefs about it then fella… :unamused:

140

Let’s see Unite Members doing what they can do halt the transport industry for the day then. Expecting us drivers to take action when we’re not even in their Union is a bit rich if you ask me.