Anyone know new wages at mulgrew haulage heysham

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
41

Grandpa:

But you have joined in.
You are taking the money paid in taxes by those actually doing jobs that you consider beneath you.
Taxes you paid twenty years weren’t paid into an account for you to draw now. You are taking the monies of those working today.

No Franglais. I am taking the money from those that I paid for with my taxes who now that I’m older and they’re working pay for me. Just as you now pay for me, one day those still at school will pay for you.

I don’t consider working beneath me, but I’m too old for the low pay rat race that driving has become. When you get to your mid-60s you’ll understand.

Those working and paying taxes today such as myself, do so to fund those who cannot work. Or have reached retirement age. Not those who choose not to work or believe their retirement age should be less than that of the rest of us.
If I pay all in all of my life and never have to take out because of unemployment or illness I’ll be happy, not worrying about whether I’ve gotten my monies worth out of the system.
And to to correct your assumptions, I have reached my mid sixties, and haven’t yet found the need to short circuit the system, and take more than others who choose to swing the lead rather than do what they are capable of.

42

the nodding donkey:

Franglais:
So here we are. In a gig economy, low pay with lockdowns and heading for the biggest depression since the 1930s, with unemployment already over 4 million and rising fast with a government that favours a Monty Python script. The good news is it can’t get any worse, but at my age I’m not going to join in. :slight_smile:

But you have joined in.
You are taking the money paid in taxes by those actually doing jobs that you consider beneath you.
Taxes you paid twenty years weren’t paid into an account for you to draw now. You are taking the monies of those working today.

But, to be fair to the work shy old codger (only joking… :grimacing: ), that is how the system works. The ones that work, pay for the ones that dont. The first recipients of the welfare state had never paid in previously, how could they? That is why the whole pension system is a pyramid scheme… which is about to collapse.

Unless, somebody devizes a way to stop pensioners from living to long… like a virus. But that’s ridiculous, they’d never get away with something like that.
[/quote]
Yes it is a pyramid scheme.
No it can’t go on forever.
(Many of us have been trying to see the pension shortfall coming and make private provision for it.)
But it is the system we have. We are where we are, and looking back to to 1945-ish won’t change that.
I don’t think it is at a perfect set up but it is for us to change it through democratic means, not be some sort or sixty year old teenager throwing a strop and thinking we are somehow exempt.
Not you maybe, but…

43

robroy:
On the other hand ND, he’s probably never missed a day’s work since he was 16, paid thousands into the system, never drawn a penny from it,.whilst watching the pond life, the work shy, the bone idle,.and foreigners reaping the benefits of our system whilst living here illegally (as well as the genuine cases in the minority) and thought ‘[zb] it, had enough of working loads of hours for little money, I can live off 200 quid in the few months until I retire, here goes’.
I do see his point, although not saying I fully agree with it.

Each to his own, and given the choice, I’d rather my tax money went to the likes of him than the aforementioned crew. :smiling_imp:

(Don’t know wtf this has to do with Mulgrews btw. :laughing: )

My thoughts too. Who are the clever ones here? The ones who sit on their arse all day having figured out how to play the system and have “the government” (ie. the taxpayers) pay for their reasonably comfortable lifestyle, pay their council tax, pay their NI etc, or the ones who are good obedient citizens who go out to slave away for some company for 60 hours and £600 a week and then lose a third of it in income tax and another hundred or two hundred quid a month in council tax to pay for the other lot? I can understand grandpa’s stance.

44

Grandpa:
The price of a packet of ■■■■ an hour for a professional driver/labourer and we should be grateful? (Got my anarchist head on today) :slight_smile:

But the pay is dictated entirely by the market forces. There have been many discussion threads complaining about the pay, conditions, looming driver shortages and all sorts of other predictions but the reality is there isn’t any shortage of willing bums to steer wagons in the general haulage sector hence why the pay has largely remained stagnant and only risen to some degree with inflation. You may think that the job is underpaid and you ‘deserve’ more but for every one of you there are 100 others who are clearly happy enough with the pay, terms and conditions on offer to stump up their initial £3k to get their licences and ongoing costs to keep them all current.

“Professional driver” : most of the work in the general haulage sector is no more difficult than driving your car and the pay on offer reflects that.

45

Franglais:
Those working and paying taxes today such as myself, do so to fund those who cannot work. Or have reached retirement age. Not those who choose not to work

:laughing: C’mon, fo you REALLY believe that.
Have a look at my list on my other post, that is where a high percentage of your (and my) tax is going.
There are people on the dole who have not worked since the 80s, the latest thing nowadays is bi.polar, they claim to have it because they are exempt from looking for work.
I ain’t saying everybody who claims to have it are scroungers, but it’s the latest band wagon they are jumping on.
Half of the ■■■■ s would be unemployable anyway, they should he made to do community linked jobs like picking litter, or cleaning hedgerows.
Those are the ■■■■ s you should be aiming your disapproval at, not somebody who has paid into the system for 40+ years, and rightly or wrongly has just had enough.
If I could afford to live on 200 quid a wk,.and maintain my lifestyle, I’d be there with him and not give a ■■■■.
I should have done it 30 yes ago when all my 4 kids were at home, I could have made a fortune, instead of watching these lazy ■■■■ s buying all the stuff for their kids that I could not afford, while listening to my little girl saying, ‘‘Julie’s Daddy is home every night,.why can you not be Daddy’’.
These 2hats have their lives catered for, make no mistake.

46

If you look at life dividing it into those that work and those that don’t, then you’re going to wonder why you pay taxes for those that don’t work. That is, until you yourselves get old and unable to keep up with physical labour and then you’ll realize why you paid in all those years. ‘Swinging the lead’ at 65 with a snow white head after paying in for decades, honestly?

I spent last winter doing 3x 11 hour night shifts in private nursing care working with dementia, mental health and palliative care. I left when they put me on 13 hour days. I didn’t even try, I knew I couldn’t do it. They didn’t give a toss and replaced me with a Romanian. I now choose not to work for the 6 months until I officially retire. I’m now £50 a week worse off. Yes, not a shift, a week!

As you age, you tend to leave behind the ‘must have’ lifestyles that never seem to happen. The out of reach mortgages, the TV adverts of happy families jumping about on mattresses (only £499) and Mr. Fagan and Whalley’s offer of pocket money for professional drivers disguised as a job. As the recession deepens, bankruptcies soar and taxes rise many of you will be joining me.

47

robroy:

Franglais:
Those working and paying taxes today such as myself, do so to fund those who cannot work. Or have reached retirement age. Not those who choose not to work

[emoji38] C’mon, fo you REALLY believe that.
Have a look at my list on my other post, that is where a high percentage of your (and my) tax is going.
There are people on the dole who have not worked since the 80s, the latest thing nowadays is bi.polar, they claim to have it because they are exempt from looking for work.
I ain’t saying everybody who claims to have it are scroungers, but it’s the latest band wagon they are jumping on.
Half of the [zb] s would be unemployable anyway, they should he made to do community linked jobs like picking litter, or cleaning hedgerows.
Those are the [zb] s you should be aiming your disapproval at, not somebody who has paid into the system for 40+ years, and rightly or wrongly has just had enough.
If I could afford to live on 200 quid a wk,.and maintain my lifestyle, I’d be there with him and not give a [zb].
I should have done it 30 yes ago when all my 4 kids were at home, I could have made a fortune, instead of watching these lazy [zb] s buying all the stuff for their kids that I could not afford, while listening to my little girl saying, ‘‘Julie’s Daddy is home every night,.why can you not be Daddy’’.
These 2hats have their lives catered for, make no mistake.

Who am I meant ro be aiming at that has contributed 40 plus years to the UK system?
But, leaving that aside, if someone is fit then the rules say they should carry on until retirement age as defined by the gov. Or would you prefer everyone to decide themselves when they’ve done “enough”?
If anyone wants society to pay for their way, shouldn’t they obey the rules of that society? And for those who decide to take from society, although they are capable of still contributing, whilst calling the actual contributors fools or mugs…

48

Yeh, because all the groups I’ve mentioned are obeying the rules ain’t they :unamused:

In answer to your question ‘‘Would I prefer if everyone etc etc’’
I personally could not give a ■■■■ what ‘everyone’ does, if I’ve learned one thing in this life, it’s to look after number 1 and my immediate family,.with some consideration to my friends.
It’s the way life experiences have got me, if you think any different, rules, doing things properly etc, you’re pretty naive…dog eat dog mate.

49

Unfortunately, dog eat dog sums it up (gig economy), but what an awful society that produces. The millionaires pay minimum wages and tell us how we’re all in this together, the MPs give themselves a pay rise and we blame each other. In less than 20 years our working lives have been turned upside down and some still cheer it on. :unamused:

50

Grandpa:
Unfortunately, dog eat dog sums it up (gig economy), but what an awful society that produces. The millionaires pay minimum wages and tell us how we’re all in this together, the MPs give themselves a pay rise and we blame each other. In less than 20 years our working lives have been turned upside down and some still cheer it on. :unamused:

Some would do well to watch this and take it in. :bulb:

51

Mick Bracewell:

Grandpa:
Unfortunately, dog eat dog sums it up (gig economy), but what an awful society that produces. The millionaires pay minimum wages and tell us how we’re all in this together, the MPs give themselves a pay rise and we blame each other. In less than 20 years our working lives have been turned upside down and some still cheer it on. :unamused:

Some would do well to watch this and take it in. :bulb:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vb8Rj5xkDPk&ab_channel=LarkenRose

I’ll be Samuel and Franglais can be Mr. Smith. :slight_smile:

I’ll go for the updated version

The UK was never ‘doing well’ and the lockdown has simply exposed the mess and near bankruptcy behind the gig-economy. We think it’s bad now, but it’s only just beginning.

52

Grandpa:

Mick Bracewell:

Grandpa:
Unfortunately, dog eat dog sums it up (gig economy), but what an awful society that produces. The millionaires pay minimum wages and tell us how we’re all in this together, the MPs give themselves a pay rise and we blame each other. In less than 20 years our working lives have been turned upside down and some still cheer it on. :unamused:

Some would do well to watch this and take it in. :bulb:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vb8Rj5xkDPk&ab_channel=LarkenRose

I’ll be Samuel and Franglais can be Mr. Smith. :slight_smile:

I’ll go for the updated version
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dd2-VY6roL0

The UK was never ‘doing well’ and the lockdown has simply exposed the mess and near bankruptcy behind the gig-economy. We think it’s bad now, but it’s only just beginning.

You equate yourself with Samuel, the guy who speaks up for a fair reward for a fair input?

53

robroy:
Yeh, because all the groups I’ve mentioned are obeying the rules ain’t they :unamused:

In answer to your question ‘‘Would I prefer if everyone etc etc’’
I personally could not give a [zb] what ‘everyone’ does, if I’ve learned one thing in this life, it’s to look after number 1 and my immediate family,.with some consideration to my friends.
It’s the way life experiences have got me, if you think any different, rules, doing things properly etc, you’re pretty naive…dog eat dog mate.

So you
“Look after no.1”
But also favour Trades Unions?
You see someone breaking the rules of the society you are a member of, and think it’s better to copy him, rather than criticise?
You pick and choose who is right and wrong rather than follow the rules our (more or less) democratic society votes for?
You criticise others who play the system, unless you reckon you’d like to do the same?
Nice to see such clear thinking.
…unmuddled by any attempt at logic.

54

Franglais:

robroy:
Yeh, because all the groups I’ve mentioned are obeying the rules ain’t they :unamused:

In answer to your question ‘‘Would I prefer if everyone etc etc’’
I personally could not give a [zb] what ‘everyone’ does, if I’ve learned one thing in this life, it’s to look after number 1 and my immediate family,.with some consideration to my friends.
It’s the way life experiences have got me, if you think any different, rules, doing things properly etc, you’re pretty naive…dog eat dog mate.

So you
“Look after no.1”
But also favour Trades Unions?
You see someone breaking the rules of the society you are a member of, and think it’s better to copy him, rather than criticise?
You pick and choose who is right and wrong rather than follow the rules our (more or less) democratic society votes for?
You criticise others who play the system, unless you reckon you’d like to do the same?
Nice to see such clear thinking.
…unmuddled by any attempt at logic.

Yeh, whatever if that is how you interpret it…it’s called realism. :bulb:

You’re right, I do favour Trade Unions, why would I not in an industry such as this??
I’d be the first to stick together with a like minded group who are sick of all the rights that were fought for by previous generations just handed back by those with no fight in them, but what would be the point of trying to do something single handedly?
Would I get backing? Would I ■■■■.

Any injustices are just either met with a lot of belly aching among drivers,.and/or just readily accepting any old crap chucked at them…so can’t be arsed any longer tbh.
, I just deal with it the best I can for myself, and up to now I ain’t done too badly.
I’d also be labelled militant, trouble maker or any other thing you can think of, so yeh…I look after myself and ■■■■ the rest of em.

Where did I say I am going to copy him,?
I said I see his point, and hypothetically would maybe do it if I felt the same, but as yet no plans to do so,.I like to maintain a decent social life.

It ain’t my choice to pick and choose who I think is ‘breaking the rules’ it’s up to whatever authoritative organisation to concern themselves with it, not mine.

I notice there is no criticism from you towards any of the groups I previously pointed out, who contribute the far end of f. all into the system, but who are at the front of the queue for any lucrative handouts, but you are readily going to town on a bloke with 6 months left of his work life who has obviously said ‘‘■■■■ this, I’ve contributed to the same pot.as these parasites, all my life, what’s good for them etc etc’’…as you said, nice to see such clear thinking.

55

robroy:

Franglais:

robroy:
Yeh, because all the groups I’ve mentioned are obeying the rules ain’t they :unamused:

In answer to your question ‘‘Would I prefer if everyone etc etc’’
I personally could not give a [zb] what ‘everyone’ does, if I’ve learned one thing in this life, it’s to look after number 1 and my immediate family,.with some consideration to my friends.
It’s the way life experiences have got me, if you think any different, rules, doing things properly etc, you’re pretty naive…dog eat dog mate.

So you
“Look after no.1”
But also favour Trades Unions?
You see someone breaking the rules of the society you are a member of, and think it’s better to copy him, rather than criticise?
You pick and choose who is right and wrong rather than follow the rules our (more or less) democratic society votes for?
You criticise others who play the system, unless you reckon you’d like to do the same?
Nice to see such clear thinking.
…unmuddled by any attempt at logic.

Yeh, whatever if that is how you interpret it…it’s called realism. :bulb:

You’re right, I do favour Trade Unions, why would I not in an industry such as this??
I’d be the first to stick together with a like minded group who are sick of all the rights that were fought for by previous generations just handed back by those with no fight in them, but what would be the point of trying to do something single handedly?
Would I get backing? Would I [zb].

Any injustices are just either met with a lot of belly aching among drivers,.and/or just readily accepting any old crap chucked at them…so can’t be arsed any longer tbh.
, I just deal with it the best I can for myself, and up to now I ain’t done too badly.
I’d also be labelled militant, trouble maker or any other thing you can think of, so yeh…I look after myself and [zb] the rest of em.

Where did I say I am going to copy him,?
I said I see his point, and hypothetically would maybe do it if I felt the same, but as yet no plans to do so,.I like to maintain a decent social life.

It ain’t my choice to pick and choose who I think is ‘breaking the rules’ it’s up to whatever authoritative organisation to concern themselves with it, not mine.

I notice there is no criticism from you towards any of the groups I previously pointed out, who contribute the far end of f. all into the system, but who are at the front of the queue for any lucrative handouts, but you are readily going to town on a bloke with 6 months left of his work life who has obviously said ‘’[zb] this, I’ve contributed to the same pot.as these parasites, all my life, what’s good for them etc etc’'…as you said, nice to see such clear thinking.

Which bloke is that?

The one who was educated in the UK?
Emigrated for over ten years? Went to live in Thailand was it? And when he ran out of money returned to the UK to do a few weeks work before deciding that life here was too tough, so he would take an early retirement. The guy who is currently taking tax payers funds while slagging off those paying those taxes as being underpaid lackeys?
Maybe I’ve got that all wrong?
If so correct me.

56

You’ve obviously done your research into the finer details of this guy’s life :open_mouth:
I haven’t by the way, so tbh not really fussed…, nowt to do with me, no bearing on my life.

Still no views on the others I notice… are you a Guardian reader Franglais,? :smiley:
and when you played football was it on the left wing. :wink: :laughing:

57

We’ve all worked many years, paid into the pot, grumbled about taxes and got on with it. Yet there comes a time when rules and regulations don’t matter anymore. It’s not a question of being lazy one day before your 66 and not being lazy one day later when you reach pension age. You simply reach a point where you say, ‘I can’t do this anymore’ and that’s what laboring, formerly driving, has turned into.

There was a time I could have pulled back heavy curtains three or four time a shift and thrown straps across a 12 foot high load, or pulled off 12 pallets with a pump truck … Those days are gone. Why would I want to risk personal injury even trying? I could still take a load up to Edinburgh, night out and do a collection on the way back on a repetitive contract, but those trunking days have also gone.

There are many £9-10ph stressed out labour intensive Class 1 multi-drop jobs going begging. Rather you than me, because even the foreigners are now leaving a low paid dead-end industry.

58

Which bloke is that?

The one who was educated in the UK?
Emigrated for over ten years? Went to live in Thailand was it? And when he ran out of money returned to the UK to do a few weeks work before deciding that life here was too tough, so he would take an early retirement. The guy who is currently taking tax payers funds while slagging off those paying those taxes as being underpaid lackeys?
Maybe I’ve got that all wrong?
If so correct me.

Yes, I’ll correct you.

I was educated in the UK, paid for my degrees myself through government loans which had to be paid back. Lived in Thailand, worked in China for ten years. Apart from those periods worked and paid in like everyone else. I paid in, I now take out. Careful Franglais, in the depression that’s coming you too might be joining me sooner than you think. :slight_smile:

Should I have stayed in the UK after the 2008 crash and joined in the race to the bottom? You wanted the EU, you wanted European equality? Well, now you’ve got it in your similar Easter European gig-economy, low paid £9-10ph, employment slave market. What’s not to laugh about? We were well and truly had over by people with the same ideas as you who now can’t understand why the transport sector is a dead duck employing professional drivers for pocket money. Give yourself a slap and wonder why there are an estimated 40K people with a HGV licence not using them.

59

I’m not stalking anyone! Grandpa posted a lot a few months ago, we had a bit of to-ing and fro-ing, and I rememberd some of the posts.
Working away and returning is all fine in my own opinion. Taking a pension if enough has been contributed is also fine. Why not? All part of our society and within the rules we work to.
If too ill to work, or can’t find work then again the system is there to help.
Unilaterally deciding that the rules don’t apply to ‘ME’ doesn’t elicit any sympathy from me.
Asking “Why would I even try”…
.
In footie I was always ‘left back’…
in the dressing room.
Sorry.
.
Yes I read The Guardian, and also the Mail, and Express: after Lord of the Rings, and Harry Potter I like some fantasy reading.
.
The UK social care system is far from perfect, and I’m all for those who can’t find work, or are unfit (physically or mentally) to benefit from it. Those who cheat it I’m against.
I don’t agree with all the rules, but think it’s better to change the rules democratically, rather than have some putting themselves above the rules.
.

60

Franglais:
I’m not stalking anyone! Grandpa posted a lot a few months ago, we had a bit of to-ing and fro-ing, and I rememberd some of the posts.
Working away and returning is all fine in my own opinion. Taking a pension if enough has been contributed is also fine. Why not? All part of our society and within the rules we work to.
If too ill to work, or can’t find work then again the system is there to help.
Unilaterally deciding that the rules don’t apply to ‘ME’ doesn’t elicit any sympathy from me.
Asking “Why would I even try”…
.
In footie I was always ‘left back’…
in the dressing room.
Sorry.
.
Yes I read The Guardian, and also the Mail, and Express: after Lord of the Rings, and Harry Potter I like some fantasy reading.
.
The UK social care system is far from perfect, and I’m all for those who can’t find work, or are unfit (physically or mentally) to benefit from it. Those who cheat it I’m against.
I don’t agree with all the rules, but think it’s better to change the rules democratically, rather than have some putting themselves above the rules.
.

You want to live by government rules? The rules say I can claim and at my age already told I won’t be hounded to try to get back into work. Apart from the rip off companies using drivers as labourers, not a lot going for 65 years olds.

Yet the rules also say if you want to work as a labourer/driver for £10ph you’re also perfectly at liberty to do so.

I didn’t give up work to cheat the system, I gave it up because I can’t do the physical labour required that is now part of the job. Do I have to do my back or shoulders in and go on the sick before that sinks in? You then put up an image of a bald headed bloke with a head shaped like a knob with someone slapping it. Is that kind of how it works? :laughing:

You want some reading material? Try Orwell’s ‘Road to Wigan Pier’ and ‘Down and out in Paris and London.’ They’ll aptly describe the kind of society you’d like to see us return to. YOU wear yourself out for your owners. YOU work for peanuts. ME? I’ll listen to you complaining when your workload and taxes go up. :slight_smile: