The other point, it’s hard to make the case that one mode of transport should have precedence / be given time+space, not because they’re more important per se but because of the difficulty of juggling mirror & windscreen observation.
If you say that to a cyclist they could fairly argue, in that case if checking everything is clear is this hazardous; why is the lorry on the road during rush hour at all.
The current rule of the road is that everyone has the same right of way as equal road users, but the lorry driver can only deal with the cards he is dealt with, if a cyclist is set on a course of dangerous positioning, it only take 1 driver out of a 1,000 not to be on top of his game for an accident to happen.
foresttrucker:
it only take 1 driver out of a 1,000 not to be on top of his game for an accident to happen.
It is more a case that even if a driver is on top of his game there are enough cyclists going by their own flawed logic for one to eventually get themselves into the wrong place at the wrong time.Especially if the definition of ‘on top of his game’ means the all round observation in the training book.As opposed to concentrate on the nearside mirrors and let the rest look after itself in the case of left hand turns.
Firstly I don’t need to have driven a truck for over a decade to still know how to drive one.
i would say thats open to debate, the ability to do it safely around city centres has changed significantly.
While if you’re right and based on typical obvious cyclist logic there obviously isn’t a problem with turning trucks running over cyclists while turning left from stationary at a green light or while moving.Because the cyclists will all be able to out drag or out run the truck from the lights anyway before the truck in question can turn left across them.
However feel free to explain how being alongside a truck in the middle of the junction where it will be turning,is supposedly safer in cyclist logic,than staying on the line where the truck can do nothing except go straight ahead when it moves off before entering the junction and ‘then’ turning.
[/quote]
It’s a waste of time trying to explain anything to you, you ignore the answers & just repeat questions, then go off on a tangent. If you think it’s better for a cyclist waiting at a junction, who got there before any lorry, should then wait until the lorry pulls away & turns across them insted of clearing the junction before the lorry can turn, then it’s probably for the best that you don’t drive anymore. Simple logic tells you that, you cannot get injured by a lorry, going straight ahead or turning, if you are not there by the time the lorry has picked up any significant speed. Even someone as one eyed as you can see that surely.
BillyHunt:
Firstly I don’t need to have driven a truck for over a decade to still know how to drive one.
i would say thats open to debate, the ability to do it safely around city centres has changed significantly.
While if you’re right and based on typical obvious cyclist logic there obviously isn’t a problem with turning trucks running over cyclists while turning left from stationary at a green light or while moving.Because the cyclists will all be able to out drag or out run the truck from the lights anyway before the truck in question can turn left across them.
However feel free to explain how being alongside a truck in the middle of the junction where it will be turning,is supposedly safer in cyclist logic,than staying on the line where the truck can do nothing except go straight ahead when it moves off before entering the junction and ‘then’ turning.
It’s a waste of time trying to explain anything to you, you ignore the answers & just repeat questions, then go off on a tangent. If you think it’s better for a cyclist waiting at a junction, who got there before any lorry, should then wait until the lorry pulls away & turns across them insted of clearing the junction before the lorry can turn, then it’s probably for the best that you don’t drive anymore. Simple logic tells you that, you cannot get injured by a lorry, going straight ahead or turning, if you are not there by the time the lorry has picked up any significant speed. Even someone as one eyed as you can see that surely.
[/quote]
No I’ve still obviously got more road sense than you and your pro cyclist bs.Numerous casualties should tell you that you’re talking absolute bollox.The cyclist simply won’t/can’t outrun a truck across a junction,before that truck turns left across them assuming for whatever reason the truck doesn’t know they are there.However if cyclists really must carry on with the idea that they must go first at all costs then carry on.Because as you’ve said I no longer need to drive a truck for a living and I’m not a thick moronic cyclist who’ll inevitably end up under the wheels of a left turning truck at some point.Because their zb’d up logic tells them that it’s better to race a truck from the lights in the hope that they’ll be able to undertake it before it turns left across them than to wait in safety at the line and let the truck go first and get on with it.
In which case nmm’s idea of the stop sign/s attached to the nearside of a truck is so far as good as it gets.
Why don’t drivers start getting out and walking round and telling them what for, If I ever had to go to London and some were blatantly going up the inside when indicators etc are going off, I know I would. May make them start to think, even if it just gets headcam footage circulated around social media it would still raise awareness.
But their no better here in the countryside, the all in one Lycra clad power rangers riding in a group on a “A” or “B” road with a mile long que of traffic behind as the lorrys can’t get passed because they wont go single file or move in at a lay by etc Is all too common and so frustrating, but they carry on stuck up their own ■■■ thinking they have the god given right to do as they please.
m_attt:
Why don’t drivers start getting out and walking round and telling them what for, If I ever had to go to London and some were blatantly going up the inside when indicators etc are going off, I know I would. May make them start to think, even if it just gets headcam footage circulated around social media it would still raise awareness.
But their no better here in the countryside, the all in one Lycra clad power rangers riding in a group on a “A” or “B” road with a mile long que of traffic behind as the lorrys can’t get passed because they wont go single file or move in at a lay by etc Is all too common and so frustrating, but they carry on stuck up their own ■■■ thinking they have the god given right to do as they please.
they’d be 50m away before you’d even touched the ground mate, London cyclists stop for nothing!
Perhaps Lorries should be fitted with a driver’s microphone and loudspeakers attached to the nearside. Then the driver could announce " Do you want to die today ? if not ■■■■, off because you could do so if you stay where you are." Or similar warnings. It could even be a recording which plays automatically when the handbrake is applied.
newmercman:
I used to run along the gutter in traffic to stop the suicidal self propelled gang from putting themselves into danger, it used to ■■■■ them off, but ■■■■■■ off is better than squashed I reckon.
cav551:
Perhaps Lorries should be fitted with a driver’s microphone and loudspeakers attached to the nearside. Then the driver could announce " Do you want to die today ? if not [zb], off because you could do so if you stay where you are." Or similar warnings. It could even be a recording which plays automatically when the handbrake is applied.
all our tarmac brick n block trucks have audible turning left voice fitted along with cameras and sensors and very few cycilist pay any attention too it.
BillyHunt:
Given the populations current obsession with trying eat itself into an early grave I cannot think of any politicians that would openly endorse more trucks & less cyclists in & around cities. The trouble comes when councils try to change layouts of roads, the majority of them not being cyclists & in some cases not even drivers. It’s all done by computer models & looked at from a money point of view & not safety. This needs to change.
Thats not strictly true I have been involved in Highway Authority schemes in a past life and in almost all cases schemes undergo a rigorous safety audit and are not open to traffic until the audit requirements are satisfied.Highway safety is a high priority with all highway authorities, admittedly in these austere times they have had to cut their cloth accordingly regarding maintenance and we experience on a daily basis what central government decree as acceptable because after all it is they that are restricting the money. But to suggest that committed professional people in highway authorities up and down the country implement new schemes without giving due consideration to safety is well wide of the mark in my view.
There’s some London coroners that would dispute the safe quality of TfL’s cycle priorities. Encouraging cyclists to cut up the left-hand side of a queue then sit in the blind spot of the lorry at the front isn’t going to end well.
BillyHunt:
Firstly I don’t need to have driven a truck for over a decade to still know how to drive one.
i would say thats open to debate, the ability to do it safely around city centres has changed significantly.
While if you’re right and based on typical obvious cyclist logic there obviously isn’t a problem with turning trucks running over cyclists while turning left from stationary at a green light or while moving.Because the cyclists will all be able to out drag or out run the truck from the lights anyway before the truck in question can turn left across them.
However feel free to explain how being alongside a truck in the middle of the junction where it will be turning,is supposedly safer in cyclist logic,than staying on the line where the truck can do nothing except go straight ahead when it moves off before entering the junction and ‘then’ turning.
It’s a waste of time trying to explain anything to you, you ignore the answers & just repeat questions, then go off on a tangent. If you think it’s better for a cyclist waiting at a junction, who got there before any lorry, should then wait until the lorry pulls away & turns across them insted of clearing the junction before the lorry can turn, then it’s probably for the best that you don’t drive anymore. Simple logic tells you that, you cannot get injured by a lorry, going straight ahead or turning, if you are not there by the time the lorry has picked up any significant speed. Even someone as one eyed as you can see that surely.
No I’ve still obviously got more road sense than you and your pro cyclist bs.Numerous casualties should tell you that you’re talking absolute bollox.The cyclist simply won’t/can’t outrun a truck across a junction,before that truck turns left across them assuming for whatever reason the truck doesn’t know they are there.However if cyclists really must carry on with the idea that they must go first at all costs then carry on.Because as you’ve said I no longer need to drive a truck for a living and I’m not a thick moronic cyclist who’ll inevitably end up under the wheels of a left turning truck at some point.Because their zb’d up logic tells them that it’s better to race a truck from the lights in the hope that they’ll be able to undertake it before it turns left across them than to wait in safety at the line and let the truck go first and get on with it.
In which case nmm’s idea of the stop sign/s attached to the nearside of a truck is so far as good as it gets.
[/quote]
Your proving yourself to be more of a moron than even I thought you were. You’re showing you have absolutely no idea of how things are on the roads in major cities. You’re just another armchair expert with bugger all to do but spout rubbish, remembering how it was in the good old days.
Nobody has said cyclists must go first at all costs,that’s just another figment of your limited imagination. As for not getting away from a junction before a lorry moves forward, with today’s automatic boxes it’s a doddle, but I can’t expect you to know that. However, given all your expertise, can you explain why a cyclist thats already in front of a lorry at a junction, would have to undertake said lorry before it turns. A clue, it won’t as its already cleared the junction. If the driver cannot see them as he approaches who’s fault is it? I’m betting you won’t say the drivers, go on, prove me wrong.
Carryfast:
In which case nmm’s idea of the stop sign/s attached to the nearside of a truck is so far as good as it gets.
Your proving yourself to be more of a moron than even I thought you were. You’re showing you have absolutely no idea of how things are on the roads in major cities. You’re just another armchair expert with bugger all to do but spout rubbish, remembering how it was in the good old days.
Nobody has said cyclists must go first at all costs,that’s just another figment of your limited imagination. As for not getting away from a junction before a lorry moves forward, with today’s automatic boxes it’s a doddle, but I can’t expect you to know that. However, given all your expertise, can you explain why a cyclist thats already in front of a lorry at a junction, would have to undertake said lorry before it turns. A clue, it won’t as its already cleared the junction. If the driver cannot see them as he approaches who’s fault is it? I’m betting you won’t say the drivers, go on, prove me wrong.
How the zb can a cyclist who is sitting stationary,together with and alongside a truck,at a red light,then get ‘ahead’ of a truck and ‘clear of the junction’ when the light turns green ‘before’ the truck turns left at the junction without ‘undertaking’ the truck resulting in the cyclist then getting run over by the thing’s rear axles or even steer axle in the middle of the junction.IE trucks don’t generally run their nearside wheels,during a left turn,over cyclists that have supposedly ‘cleared the junction’ and/or supposedly aren’t undertaking the truck.
The whole basis of your typically thick cyclist thinking is all about outrunning and undertaking a truck from a green light or even through a junction on the premise that it is all a race in which you want to bet with your life that you’ll win it.Then when the idea inevitably goes pear shaped you want to blame the latest mug driving the truck who just happened to be looking ahead,or in the offside mirrors and/or factoring in possible mirror blindspots,during a left hand turn as the latest cyclist tried to get ahead by undertaking along the nearside and yet again failed.Instead of waiting safely at the stop line or holding back until the truck had cleared the junction.
Yeah right the cyclist will always win.In ( what the cyclist obviously views as ) being all about a race with a truck while undertaking it through a junction.In the guaranteed knowledge that the unfortunate truck driver has/should have telepathic powers when the cyclist inevitably finds out that they were wrong when the truck turns left.So tell that to the latest victim of your zb’d up thinking.
It seems totally unjustified to be arguing amongst yourselves, this was a tragedy for both the Family and the Driver. but the fact is this type of accident will continue until both sides accept that they have a responsibility to prevent such accidents. I know that this has been an agenda item for traffic safety, but I am still amazed that cyclists do not appear to realise the dangers of stopping beside heavy trucks at junctions.
Carryfast:
In which case nmm’s idea of the stop sign/s attached to the nearside of a truck is so far as good as it gets.
Your proving yourself to be more of a moron than even I thought you were. You’re showing you have absolutely no idea of how things are on the roads in major cities. You’re just another armchair expert with bugger all to do but spout rubbish, remembering how it was in the good old days.
Nobody has said cyclists must go first at all costs,that’s just another figment of your limited imagination. As for not getting away from a junction before a lorry moves forward, with today’s automatic boxes it’s a doddle, but I can’t expect you to know that. However, given all your expertise, can you explain why a cyclist thats already in front of a lorry at a junction, would have to undertake said lorry before it turns. A clue, it won’t as its already cleared the junction. If the driver cannot see them as he approaches who’s fault is it? I’m betting you won’t say the drivers, go on, prove me wrong.
How the zb can a cyclist who is sitting stationary,together with and alongside a truck,at a red light,then get ‘ahead’ of a truck and ‘clear of the junction’ when the light turns green ‘before’ the truck turns left at the junction without ‘undertaking’ the truck resulting in the cyclist then getting run over by the thing’s rear axles or even steer axle in the middle of the junction.IE trucks don’t generally run their nearside wheels,during a left turn,over cyclists that have supposedly ‘cleared the junction’ and/or supposedly aren’t undertaking the truck.
The whole basis of your typically thick cyclist thinking is all about outrunning and undertaking a truck from a green light or even through a junction on the premise that it is all a race in which you want to bet with your life that you’ll win it.Then when the idea inevitably goes pear shaped you want to blame the latest mug driving the truck who just happened to be looking ahead,or in the offside mirrors and/or factoring in possible mirror blindspots,during a left hand turn as the latest cyclist tried to get ahead by undertaking along the nearside and yet again failed.Instead of waiting safely at the stop line or holding back until the truck had cleared the junction.
Yeah right the cyclist will always win.In ( what the cyclist obviously views as ) being all about a race with a truck while undertaking it through a junction.In the guaranteed knowledge that the unfortunate truck driver has/should have telepathic powers when the cyclist inevitably finds out that they were wrong when the truck turns left.So tell that to the latest victim of your zb’d up thinking.
If you can’t work out how it’s done them I glad your not behind the wheel anymore. I’m finished wasting my time on your moronic, one eyed views on how cyclists & drivers should behave on today’s roads when it’s clear you haven’t got the first clue about the topic.
yoyo5:
It seems totally unjustified to be arguing amongst yourselves, this was a tragedy for both the Family and the Driver. but the fact is this type of accident will continue until both sides accept that they have a responsibility to prevent such accidents. I know that this has been an agenda item for traffic safety, but I am still amazed that cyclists do not appear to realise the dangers of stopping beside heavy trucks at junctions.
It has nothing to do with cyclists ‘stopping’ beside trucks at junctions.The left turn issues that we keep seeing are all/mostly about them filtering along the nearside then ‘undertaking’ trucks ‘through’ junctions as the truck turns left.Cyclists stopping ‘before’ entering the junction and waiting for any truck/s to clear it in that situation is the solution not the cause.Which is obviously a one sided solution.Until everyone concerned gets that idea then these incidents will keep happening.
Carryfast:
In which case nmm’s idea of the stop sign/s attached to the nearside of a truck is so far as good as it gets.
Your proving yourself to be more of a moron than even I thought you were. You’re showing you have absolutely no idea of how things are on the roads in major cities. You’re just another armchair expert with bugger all to do but spout rubbish, remembering how it was in the good old days.
Nobody has said cyclists must go first at all costs,that’s just another figment of your limited imagination. As for not getting away from a junction before a lorry moves forward, with today’s automatic boxes it’s a doddle, but I can’t expect you to know that. However, given all your expertise, can you explain why a cyclist thats already in front of a lorry at a junction, would have to undertake said lorry before it turns. A clue, it won’t as its already cleared the junction. If the driver cannot see them as he approaches who’s fault is it? I’m betting you won’t say the drivers, go on, prove me wrong.
How the zb can a cyclist who is sitting stationary,together with and alongside a truck,at a red light,then get ‘ahead’ of a truck and ‘clear of the junction’ when the light turns green ‘before’ the truck turns left at the junction without ‘undertaking’ the truck resulting in the cyclist then getting run over by the thing’s rear axles or even steer axle in the middle of the junction.IE trucks don’t generally run their nearside wheels,during a left turn,over cyclists that have supposedly ‘cleared the junction’ and/or supposedly aren’t undertaking the truck.
The whole basis of your typically thick cyclist thinking is all about outrunning and undertaking a truck from a green light or even through a junction on the premise that it is all a race in which you want to bet with your life that you’ll win it.Then when the idea inevitably goes pear shaped you want to blame the latest mug driving the truck who just happened to be looking ahead,or in the offside mirrors and/or factoring in possible mirror blindspots,during a left hand turn as the latest cyclist tried to get ahead by undertaking along the nearside and yet again failed.Instead of waiting safely at the stop line or holding back until the truck had cleared the junction.
Yeah right the cyclist will always win.In ( what the cyclist obviously views as ) being all about a race with a truck while undertaking it through a junction.In the guaranteed knowledge that the unfortunate truck driver has/should have telepathic powers when the cyclist inevitably finds out that they were wrong when the truck turns left.So tell that to the latest victim of your zb’d up thinking.
If you can’t work out how it’s done them I glad your not behind the wheel anymore. I’m finished wasting my time on your moronic, one eyed views on how cyclists & drivers should behave on today’s roads when it’s clear you haven’t got the first clue about the topic.
I think you’ve missed the bit that it isn’t me who ever ran over any cyclists with a truck because I treated them all as the thick stupid suicidal morons they mostly are and it isn’t me who’ll ever get run over while undertaking any truck through a junction on a bicycle.Although having said that the issue of numbers together with mirror blindspots probably even reduces the effectiveness of that life saving idea and approach which I always took in approaching and driving through a left hand turn on the nearside mirrors and letting whatever is ahead or to the right look after itself.
Although it’s no surprise that you can’t answer the question,as to how a cyclist who supposedly outran a truck from a green light and cleared the junction,got under the nearside wheels of a left turning truck in the middle of its turn in the middle of the junction.
While a lycra clad road warrior might out run a truck from a standing start,this latest incident concerned a mature woman and not an athlete.We need some way of persuading people not to get up the near side of trucks at junctions.
alamcculloch:
While a lycra clad road warrior might out run a truck from a standing start,this latest incident concerned a mature woman and not an athlete.We need some way of persuading people not to get up the near side of trucks at junctions.
alamcculloch:
While a lycra clad road warrior might out run a truck from a standing start,this latest incident concerned a mature woman and not an athlete.We need some way of persuading people not to get up the near side of trucks at junctions.
0
So far that seems to be the best answer.
Instead of which the plan seems to be that it is all about using guards along the side to supposedly protect cyclists who are in the wrong place from getting in the way of the wheels.Under the obvious delusion that the cyclists aren’t knocked to the ground by the side of the vehicle first then run over by the wheels.
As opposed to using the stop sign idea to stop them getting in the wrong place.
The stop sign idea actually solves all the problems.
Firstly and most importantly, it’s conspicuous visibilty shows the public at large that our saviours in government are doing something about the situation.
Secondly it adds little complication to the lorries, rather than ridiculous side guards and barriers that impede access and add to unladen weight without actually solving the problem.
Thirdly, when the inevitable happens and a self propelled suicide merchant does end up getting a massage from a set of 295/80s, it will totally remove any blame from the lorry driver once it’s proven that the sign was deployed.
