The next stage will be making London wagons entirely out of feather pillows and marshmallows
It is undeniable that legislation and awareness/training needs to be applied with equal vigour towards the cycling community. These ongoing tragedies involve TWO parties, so it’s hardly taxing to work out that a two-pronged solution is the only way to start tackling it more effectively. A workmate of mine very nearly popped a cyclist a few evenings back on an unlit country road. He said to me “I just couldn’t see him.”
Then he described the old fella he nearly nailed. Black bike, black jacket, black trousers, black boots, black helmet. Why oh why isn’t hi vis wear - even just a sash - COMPULSORY wear for ALL cyclists? Oh, and make the wearing of earphones illegal while cycling on a public road as well. Two very simple acts of legislation which could be fast-tracked and make a very real difference. As said, congenital stupidity is a much trickier issue to address.
The problem is that whatever legislation you wish to put in place things will go wrong and end badly. While I would agree entirely with having to wear something that lets you be seen its not in itself a great solution, it’s not as if it’s a guarantee of safety, and plenty highly visible cyclists get clipped.
Same thing with the headphone thing, it’s an easy thing to pick up on when looking at cyclists. Should we then say that vehicles should have their music players removed? It’s as if, when I have earphones in a cannot hear anything whereas the driver passing me,with ACDC playing so loud I can hear it even with my earphones in, is perfectly ok to drive.
It’s like saying that, if you took away all the cyclists then there would be no accidents or road fatalities. Seeing as how everyone left will have been trained, some to a higher standard than others, we should then be able to avoid each other. We know that is rubbish but why.
Legislation is always against the driver of vehicles because, as a trained driver!, you are held to a higher standard of road use. You are in charge of a lethal weapon and as such have to take more responsibility. The cyclist is looked at as the vulnerable road user because they are, when was the last time a cyclist came out on top when up against a motor vehicle?
To me as both cyclist & lorry driver it shows that, when out on the road you have to give 100% concentration 100% of the time because even a slight lapse can have huge consequences.
Blimey Billy - I have to agree with most of your comments (what’s happened there?). 
Agreed that lgv drivers are expected to use all their “specialist” training and increased awareness skills (allegedly), but cyclists are largely exonerated of any contributory blame in accident situations, and this HAS to change. Unfortunately, crap truck drivers and arrogant or carefree cyclists are a devastating, lethal combination. All very of bonkers Boris to pursue trucks in the capital, but surely there should be some no-cycling zones in notorious black spots?
newmercman:
I used to run along the gutter in traffic to stop the suicidal self propelled gang from putting themselves into danger, it used to ■■■■ them off, but ■■■■■■ off is better than squashed I reckon.
this is called DEFENSIVE driving 
well done 
this is exactly what I do in the smoke!
Coming out of Croydon one day purley way near the aeroplane and a traffic light turned to red! Two lanes with a car turning right and a pair of cyclists one split left UP ONTO THE PAVEMENT AND IN FRONT OF ME THE OTHER STRAIGHT UP MY OFFSIDE AND JUMPED IN FRONT OF ME AFTER I HAD STRUGGLED TO OVERTAKE THE NEAR MAKRO! 
there’s thick and there’s stupid then I had to overtake them all again fully loaded at 44 tonne 
Given the populations current obsession with trying eat itself into an early grave I cannot think of any politicians that would openly endorse more trucks & less cyclists in & around cities. The trouble comes when councils try to change layouts of roads, the majority of them not being cyclists & in some cases not even drivers. It’s all done by computer models & looked at from a money point of view & not safety. This needs to change.
BillyHunt:
As soon as you answer the question, asked again, why should the cyclist getting to the lights first, then wait for the tipper to turn? Again you’re makng things up, I’ve never said the cyclist has the right of way, and you’re assumptions would be, as usual, incorrect.
Can I assume that, given the fact you’ve never even driven an HGV for the majority of this century, you have no real idea what today’s drivers are trained in and, as usual, you making things up as you go.
I did answer the question.If we’re agreed that the cyclist doesn’t have so called ‘right of way’ then why are you so keen on the idea of the cyclist going ‘first’,together with a possibly left turning truck,that’s driver might not know is even there,from a green light wether the cyclist was there waiting,at the line on red,first or not.
While as we all know there are ( many ) more idiotic cyclists who try to ‘filter’ along the nearside of trucks in such a situation than truck drivers who’d be stupid enough to go alongside a cyclist at a left turn point.Only the most biased pro cycling lot being in denial about that fact.
As for training on the approach to junctions and when moving off and during turns maybe any of the ‘training’ type posters like dave or ROG can tell us what has changed in the case of ‘all round observation’ being official practice in that case.As opposed to ‘my own’ rules which I ‘made up’ by experience,even with a lot less suicidal cyclists ( and a few pedestrians ) on the roads,of concentrate ‘all’ your attention on the nearside mirrors at least on the approach to and all the way through a left hand turn.Even at the obviously resulting more risk regards what is possibly taking place ahead and/or on the offside like tail sweep conflict although at least tail sweep obviously being less of an issue in the case of tippers.While being totally blind in the mirrors along both sides of the trailer in the case of an artic ‘during the turn’,once the unit is significantly past the straight ahead position relative to the trailer anyway.
newmercman:
I used to run along the gutter in traffic to stop the suicidal self propelled gang from putting themselves into danger, it used to ■■■■ them off, but ■■■■■■ off is better than squashed I reckon.
The problem being that obviously isn’t an option in the case of the approach to a left hand turn. 
BillyHunt:
Given the populations current obsession with trying eat itself into an early grave I cannot think of any politicians that would openly endorse more trucks & less cyclists in & around cities. The trouble comes when councils try to change layouts of roads, the majority of them not being cyclists & in some cases not even drivers. It’s all done by computer models & looked at from a money point of view & not safety. This needs to change.
Thats not strictly true I have been involved in Highway Authority schemes in a past life and in almost all cases schemes undergo a rigorous safety audit and are not open to traffic until the audit requirements are satisfied.Highway safety is a high priority with all highway authorities, admittedly in these austere times they have had to cut their cloth accordingly regarding maintenance and we experience on a daily basis what central government decree as acceptable because after all it is they that are restricting the money. But to suggest that committed professional people in highway authorities up and down the country implement new schemes without giving due consideration to safety is well wide of the mark in my view.
Yeah that could squash a bit more than a cyclist or two.
I haven’t driven in London for the past seven years, but I’ve seen enough dash cam videos of lorries that are there now and I’m shocked, it really is mental the way the bikes are tear arseing around lorries, obviously the videos are where there has been a near miss (that’s why they were posted) and I have to say I couldn’t see what the lorry driver could’ve done to prevent the incidents I’ve seen.
The only thing I can suggest, and it is ridiculous that such a thing is warranted, are stop signs that swing out from the left rear corner of lorries when the left indicator is applied. North American school buses use a similar system when stopping to let kids on or off.
Anyone passing a lorry deploying this sign would automatically assume blame for any resulting collision.
Easiest solution, Ban filtering asap
Newmercman your right they seem ridculous but need something that will get them to take notice.
Mullens:
Newmercman your right they seem ridculous but need something that will get them to take notice.
I can hear all the protests by the pro cyclist cause now.Why should they have to stop ‘filtering’/undertaking just because a 32t tipper might turn left while they are trying to pass it,when they obviously have the priority as the most vulnerable road user. 
Carryfast:
BillyHunt:
As soon as you answer the question, asked again, why should the cyclist getting to the lights first, then wait for the tipper to turn? Again you’re makng things up, I’ve never said the cyclist has the right of way, and you’re assumptions would be, as usual, incorrect.
Can I assume that, given the fact you’ve never even driven an HGV for the majority of this century, you have no real idea what today’s drivers are trained in and, as usual, you making things up as you go.I did answer the question.If we’re agreed that the cyclist doesn’t have so called ‘right of way’ then why are you so keen on the idea of the cyclist going ‘first’,together with a possibly left turning truck,that’s driver might not know is even there,from a green light wether the cyclist was there waiting,at the line on red,first or not.
so what you appear to be saying here is that, even though the cyclist gets to the junction first the lorry should go first as the driver might not have seen the cyclist, why, in this case would he not see the cyclist, given your all round observation as you approach the light/ junction in the first place.
While as we all know there are ( many ) more idiotic cyclists who try to ‘filter’ along the nearside of trucks in such a situation than truck drivers who’d be stupid enough to go alongside a cyclist at a left turn point.Only the most biased pro cycling lot being in denial about that fact.
You of course are not biased towards lorries & drivers at all though.
As for training on the approach to junctions and when moving off and during turns maybe any of the ‘training’ type posters like dave or ROG can tell us what has changed in the case of ‘all round observation’ being official practice in that case.As opposed to ‘my own’ rules which I ‘made up’ by experience,even with a lot less suicidal cyclists ( and a few pedestrians ) on the roads,of concentrate ‘all’ your attention on the nearside mirrors at least on the approach to and all the way through a left hand turn.Even at the obviously resulting more risk regards what is possibly taking place ahead and/or on the offside like tail sweep conflict although at least tail sweep obviously being less of an issue in the case of tippers.While being totally blind in the mirrors along both sides of the trailer in the case of an artic ‘during the turn’,once the unit is significantly past the straight ahead position relative to the trailer anyway.
BillyHunt:
I did answer the question.If we’re agreed that the cyclist doesn’t have so called ‘right of way’ then why are you so keen on the idea of the cyclist going ‘first’,together with a possibly left turning truck,that’s driver might not know is even there,from a green light wether the cyclist was there waiting,at the line on red,first or not.
so what you appear to be saying here is that, even though the cyclist gets to the junction first the lorry should go first as the driver might not have seen the cyclist, why, in this case would he not see the cyclist, given your all round observation as you approach the light/ junction in the first place.
While as we all know there are ( many ) more idiotic cyclists who try to ‘filter’ along the nearside of trucks in such a situation than truck drivers who’d be stupid enough to go alongside a cyclist at a left turn point.Only the most biased pro cycling lot being in denial about that fact.
You of course are not biased towards lorries & drivers at all though.
As for training on the approach to junctions and when moving off and during turns maybe any of the ‘training’ type posters like dave or ROG can tell us what has changed in the case of ‘all round observation’ being official practice in that case.As opposed to ‘my own’ rules which I ‘made up’ by experience,even with a lot less suicidal cyclists ( and a few pedestrians ) on the roads,of concentrate ‘all’ your attention on the nearside mirrors at least on the approach to and all the way through a left hand turn.Even at the obviously resulting more risk regards what is possibly taking place ahead and/or on the offside like tail sweep conflict although at least tail sweep obviously being less of an issue in the case of tippers.While being totally blind in the mirrors along both sides of the trailer in the case of an artic ‘during the turn’,once the unit is significantly past the straight ahead position relative to the trailer anyway.
Assuming the type of driver who’d go alongside a cyclist who is already at the line at a red light when that driver intends to turn left it is a reasonable bet that the driver in question will ‘also’ ‘expect’ that cyclist to wait and let the truck go and clear the junction when the light goes green.IE it isn’t a case of right or wrong or ‘priorities’ it is a case of common sense.IE from the cyclists point of view it is essential that they really need to stay where the zb they are on the line and let the truck get on with it.
As for the more common type of case of suicidal cyclists filtering along the nearside of stationary,or possibly even moving,trucks,then nmm’s stop sign applies.But do we really need to go to all the aggro of fitting them instead of cyclists just changing their behaviour.
amamdada:
BillyHunt:
Given the populations current obsession with trying eat itself into an early grave I cannot think of any politicians that would openly endorse more trucks & less cyclists in & around cities. The trouble comes when councils try to change layouts of roads, the majority of them not being cyclists & in some cases not even drivers. It’s all done by computer models & looked at from a money point of view & not safety. This needs to change.Thats not strictly true I have been involved in Highway Authority schemes in a past life and in almost all cases schemes undergo a rigorous safety audit and are not open to traffic until the audit requirements are satisfied.Highway safety is a high priority with all highway authorities, admittedly in these austere times they have had to cut their cloth accordingly regarding maintenance and we experience on a daily basis what central government decree as acceptable because after all it is they that are restricting the money. But to suggest that committed professional people in highway authorities up and down the country implement new schemes without giving due consideration to safety is well wide of the mark in my view.
Obviously you can only speak about what you were involved in. But I’m afraid it happens all too frequently. Take the new roundabout works in both Bournemouth & Basingstoke. One has a cycle lane, trouble is the turn so tight that 18 wheelers have to take up all the cycle lane when turning! The other is costing £10million and has no provision for cyclists at all. Due consideration to safety, I think not.
Carryfast:
BillyHunt:
I did answer the question.If we’re agreed that the cyclist doesn’t have so called ‘right of way’ then why are you so keen on the idea of the cyclist going ‘first’,together with a possibly left turning truck,that’s driver might not know is even there,from a green light wether the cyclist was there waiting,at the line on red,first or not.
so what you appear to be saying here is that, even though the cyclist gets to the junction first the lorry should go first as the driver might not have seen the cyclist, why, in this case would he not see the cyclist, given your all round observation as you approach the light/ junction in the first place.
While as we all know there are ( many ) more idiotic cyclists who try to ‘filter’ along the nearside of trucks in such a situation than truck drivers who’d be stupid enough to go alongside a cyclist at a left turn point.Only the most biased pro cycling lot being in denial about that fact.
You of course are not biased towards lorries & drivers at all though.
As for training on the approach to junctions and when moving off and during turns maybe any of the ‘training’ type posters like dave or ROG can tell us what has changed in the case of ‘all round observation’ being official practice in that case.As opposed to ‘my own’ rules which I ‘made up’ by experience,even with a lot less suicidal cyclists ( and a few pedestrians ) on the roads,of concentrate ‘all’ your attention on the nearside mirrors at least on the approach to and all the way through a left hand turn.Even at the obviously resulting more risk regards what is possibly taking place ahead and/or on the offside like tail sweep conflict although at least tail sweep obviously being less of an issue in the case of tippers.While being totally blind in the mirrors along both sides of the trailer in the case of an artic ‘during the turn’,once the unit is significantly past the straight ahead position relative to the trailer anyway.Assuming the type of driver who’d go alongside a cyclist who is already at the line at a red light when that driver intends to turn left it is a reasonable bet that the driver in question will ‘also’ ‘expect’ that cyclist to wait and let the truck go and clear the junction when the light goes green.IE it isn’t a case of right or wrong or ‘priorities’ it is a case of common sense.IE from the cyclists point of view it is essential that they really need to stay where the zb they are on the line and let the truck get on with it.
As for the more common type of case of suicidal cyclists filtering along the nearside of stationary,or possibly even moving,trucks,then nmm’s stop sign applies.But do we really need to go to all the aggro of fitting them instead of cyclists just changing their behaviour.
I would have thought it was common sense to get out of the way of a truck that pulls along side you as soon as possible, rather that sit waiting for the truck to start turning leaving you nowhere to go other than the morgue. You can tell you haven’t been in a truck for a while, most cyclists can leave them standing at lights these days.
BillyHunt:
Carryfast:
BillyHunt:
I did answer the question.If we’re agreed that the cyclist doesn’t have so called ‘right of way’ then why are you so keen on the idea of the cyclist going ‘first’,together with a possibly left turning truck,that’s driver might not know is even there,from a green light wether the cyclist was there waiting,at the line on red,first or not.
so what you appear to be saying here is that, even though the cyclist gets to the junction first the lorry should go first as the driver might not have seen the cyclist, why, in this case would he not see the cyclist, given your all round observation as you approach the light/ junction in the first place.
While as we all know there are ( many ) more idiotic cyclists who try to ‘filter’ along the nearside of trucks in such a situation than truck drivers who’d be stupid enough to go alongside a cyclist at a left turn point.Only the most biased pro cycling lot being in denial about that fact.
You of course are not biased towards lorries & drivers at all though.
As for training on the approach to junctions and when moving off and during turns maybe any of the ‘training’ type posters like dave or ROG can tell us what has changed in the case of ‘all round observation’ being official practice in that case.As opposed to ‘my own’ rules which I ‘made up’ by experience,even with a lot less suicidal cyclists ( and a few pedestrians ) on the roads,of concentrate ‘all’ your attention on the nearside mirrors at least on the approach to and all the way through a left hand turn.Even at the obviously resulting more risk regards what is possibly taking place ahead and/or on the offside like tail sweep conflict although at least tail sweep obviously being less of an issue in the case of tippers.While being totally blind in the mirrors along both sides of the trailer in the case of an artic ‘during the turn’,once the unit is significantly past the straight ahead position relative to the trailer anyway.Assuming the type of driver who’d go alongside a cyclist who is already at the line at a red light when that driver intends to turn left it is a reasonable bet that the driver in question will ‘also’ ‘expect’ that cyclist to wait and let the truck go and clear the junction when the light goes green.IE it isn’t a case of right or wrong or ‘priorities’ it is a case of common sense.IE from the cyclists point of view it is essential that they really need to stay where the zb they are on the line and let the truck get on with it.
As for the more common type of case of suicidal cyclists filtering along the nearside of stationary,or possibly even moving,trucks,then nmm’s stop sign applies.But do we really need to go to all the aggro of fitting them instead of cyclists just changing their behaviour.
I would have thought it was common sense to get out of the way of a truck that pulls along side you as soon as possible, rather that sit waiting for the truck to start turning leaving you nowhere to go other than the morgue. You can tell you haven’t been in a truck for a while, most cyclists can leave them standing at lights these days.
Firstly I don’t need to have driven a truck for over a decade to still know how to drive one.
While if you’re right and based on typical obvious cyclist logic there obviously isn’t a problem with turning trucks running over cyclists while turning left from stationary at a green light or while moving.Because the cyclists will all be able to out drag or out run the truck from the lights anyway before the truck in question can turn left across them.
However feel free to explain how being alongside a truck in the middle of the junction where it will be turning,is supposedly safer in cyclist logic,than staying on the line where the truck can do nothing except go straight ahead when it moves off before entering the junction and ‘then’ turning.
Perhaps there should be a mandatory test for cyclists using the public road.
Consider a lorry driver and a cyclist involved in an accident. The lorry driver had to pass his car test, then one or two HGV tests just to be behind the wheel. The cyclist can buy a bike in Tesco, hop onto it and join London traffic.
foresttrucker:
Perhaps there should be a mandatory test for cyclists using the public road.Consider a lorry driver and a cyclist involved in an accident. The lorry driver had to pass his car test, then one or two HGV tests just to be behind the wheel. The cyclist can buy a bike in Tesco, hop onto it and join London traffic.
It probably isn’t as simple as that.It is often a grey area of common sense and choices.IE we’ve got the combination of driver training which says look all around and in the offside mirrors when a cyclist is inevitably likely to be running along the nearside.Together with an obvious cyclist logic whereby they think that they are safer filtering and entering a junction on the nearside amongst possibly left turning trucks,than waiting and not entering the junction until the truck/s in question have cleared the junction.Being just two examples.