Carryfast:
newmercman:
Carryfast you know what I meant, you were talking about being in the wrong gear at roundabouts etc. That’s when ishift always picks the right gear, when cresting a hill it may change down unnecessarily, as you rightly point out, it cannot see, but a simple pull back into manual sorts that out.
What far too many drivers fail to grasp is that they are not automatic, but automated. There is a big difference between the two.
To be fair the approach to an empty roundabout on a level gradient is going to require a different downshift regime than the approach to a roundabout with loads of traffic on it on an uphill gradient for just one example.Or how does it know the difference between approaching a T junction with a stop sign v just having to slow down for someone turning off ahead for two examples.
In which case the advantage of a pair of eyes attached to a human brain,which directly controls the clutch,braking,and engine speed matching all for free through the biological marvel of the human nervous system and limbs,as part of the driver’s wages.All connected to the cost saving device known as the good old fashioned constant mesh transmission,is surely a massive leap forward in technology from the point of view of lifetime operating costs. 
Or have I missed something.
In practice CF the Volvo box stands head and shoulders above the others for these scenarios, where the other buggers need help and coaxing at junctions (and most of the time if truth be known), the Volvo with only rare exceptions needs any driver input, its there straight away and in only the rarest of circs in the wrong gear, but i think the engine programming helps no end with this, Volvos still have low engine speed lugging ability, the same cannot be said for others which will stall out when severe gradients tight turns and failed starts happen.
Example steep gradients fully loaded a Scania box will not downshift quickly enough nor power re-engage fast enough to cope, similar arsetronic will ■■■■ about long enough at moving junctions and invariably when it does select one it will be too high necessitating another almost immediate upshift, both those boxes require human input at times to maintain satisfying progress.
Juddian:
just don’t be surprised if the new electronic utopia is a bit of cheap disappointment when you arrive.
There’s obviously going to at least be a foreseeable incentive,to recover the extra expense involved in buying and maintaining the technology,from the wage bill.
Carryfast:
To be fair the approach to an empty roundabout on a level gradient is going to require a different downshift regime than the approach to a roundabout with loads of traffic on it on an uphill gradient for just one example.Or how does it know the difference between approaching a T junction with a stop sign v just having to slow down for someone turning off ahead for two examples.
In which case the advantage of a pair of eyes attached to a human brain,which directly controls the clutch,braking,and engine speed matching all for free through the biological marvel of the human nervous system and limbs,as part of the driver’s wages.All connected to the cost saving device known as the good old fashioned constant mesh transmission,is surely a massive leap forward in technology from the point of view of lifetime operating costs. Or have I missed something.
The technology is in its infancy, GPS and mapping will continue to integrate with engine/gearbox management. And the next great leap forward will be vehicles communicating with each other, who takes priority at junctions and roundabouts will have been decided between the vehicles before you have even seen the sign post.
Yes the human brain is a biological marvel, but it is unreliable at repetitive mundane tasks and sooner or later starts to make mistakes, hence so many accidents. On the other hand computers don’t make mistakes, if the software can be good enough accidents will be a thing of the past. I really do believe by the end of this century humans will be barred from being fully in control of any road going vehicle.
Carryfast:
Juddian:
just don’t be surprised if the new electronic utopia is a bit of cheap disappointment when you arrive.
There’s obviously going to at least be a foreseeable incentive,to recover the extra expense involved in buying and maintaining the technology,from the wage bill.
How much a year does it cost you to maintain the PC or other technological device you are using to access trucknet?
Bluey Circles:
Carryfast:
To be fair the approach to an empty roundabout on a level gradient is going to require a different downshift regime than the approach to a roundabout with loads of traffic on it on an uphill gradient for just one example.Or how does it know the difference between approaching a T junction with a stop sign v just having to slow down for someone turning off ahead for two examples.
In which case the advantage of a pair of eyes attached to a human brain,which directly controls the clutch,braking,and engine speed matching all for free through the biological marvel of the human nervous system and limbs,as part of the driver’s wages.All connected to the cost saving device known as the good old fashioned constant mesh transmission,is surely a massive leap forward in technology from the point of view of lifetime operating costs. Or have I missed something.
The technology is in its infancy, GPS and mapping will continue to integrate with engine/gearbox management. And the next great leap forward will be vehicles communicating with each other, who takes priority at junctions and roundabouts will have been decided between the vehicles before you have even seen the sign post.
Yes the human brain is a biological marvel, but it is unreliable at repetitive mundane tasks and sooner or later starts to make mistakes, hence so many accidents. On the other hand computers don’t make mistakes, if the software can be good enough accidents will be a thing of the past. I really do believe by the end of this century humans will be barred from being fully in control of any road going vehicle.
Maybe the first flaw in that argument is that driving is a mundane task.Which possibly explains the poor driving standards that you’re basing the rest on.All of which sounds like a Terminator movie type nightmare to me.Or at least one in which we’ve replaced the majority of the employment sector with technology to the point where the whole economic and societal system breaks down.Among other issues like the boredom of a world in which driving a decent car on a good run is no longer possible either. 
Lucky for me I’ll be long gone by your time scale.
muckles:
Carryfast:
Juddian:
just don’t be surprised if the new electronic utopia is a bit of cheap disappointment when you arrive.
There’s obviously going to at least be a foreseeable incentive,to recover the extra expense involved in buying and maintaining the technology,from the wage bill.
How much a year does it cost you to maintain the PC or other technological device you are using to access trucknet?
It’s more a case of run it and throw it away and buy a new one when it stops working.While an I shift and I see transmission package isn’t exactly a case of spending £300 at PC world to buy or replace it with new when it stops working.
IE there’s a ‘bit’ more technology and therefore cost involved in it both electronic and mechanical,v an ordinary Fuller box,than the cost of a cheap PC laptop.
Carryfast:
muckles:
Carryfast:
Juddian:
just don’t be surprised if the new electronic utopia is a bit of cheap disappointment when you arrive.
There’s obviously going to at least be a foreseeable incentive,to recover the extra expense involved in buying and maintaining the technology,from the wage bill.
How much a year does it cost you to maintain the PC or other technological device you are using to access trucknet?
It’s more a case of run it and throw it away and buy a new one when it stops working.While an I shift and I see transmission package isn’t exactly a case of spending £300 at PC world to buy or replace it with new when it stops working.
IE there’s a ‘bit’ more technology and therefore cost involved in it both electronic and mechanical,v an ordinary Fuller box,than the cost of a cheap PC laptop.
Drove and was responsible for the maintenance and checking the bills for an FH with Ishift for 5 years the truck when I left at the start of the year, the truck was 9 years old and had just short of 800,000kms. In that time we didn’t have problems with the electronics of the gear box. And I beleive that the mechanical side of the gearbox is a contant mesh box and normal clutch mechanism.
And I’ve also driven trucks with Fuller and Eaton boxes amougst many others, I like many were cynical about auto boxes, but that soon dissappeared once I’d started driving an FH with Ishift, especially coupled with the Volvo Engine Brake.
muckles:
Drove and was responsible for the maintenance and checking the bills for an FH with Ishift for 5 years the truck when I left at the start of the year, the truck was 9 years old and had just short of 800,000kms. In that time we didn’t have problems with the electronics of the gear box. And I beleive that the mechanical side of the gearbox is a contant mesh box and normal clutch mechanism.
And I’ve also driven trucks with Fuller and Eaton boxes amougst many others, I like many were cynical about auto boxes, but that soon dissappeared once I’d started driving an FH with Ishift, especially coupled with the Volvo Engine Brake.
nexttruckonline.com/search?c … type=truck
nexttruckonline.com/search?c … id=4208690
Carryfast:
Bluey Circles:
The technology is in its infancy, GPS and mapping will continue to integrate with engine/gearbox management. And the next great leap forward will be vehicles communicating with each other, who takes priority at junctions and roundabouts will have been decided between the vehicles before you have even seen the sign post.
Yes the human brain is a biological marvel, but it is unreliable at repetitive mundane tasks and sooner or later starts to make mistakes, hence so many accidents. On the other hand computers don’t make mistakes, if the software can be good enough accidents will be a thing of the past. I really do believe by the end of this century humans will be barred from being fully in control of any road going vehicle.
Maybe the first flaw in that argument is that driving is a mundane task.Which possibly explains the poor driving standards that you’re basing the rest on.All of which sounds like a Terminator movie type nightmare to me.Or at least one in which we’ve replaced the majority of the employment sector with technology to the point where the whole economic and societal system breaks down.Among other issues like the boredom of a world in which driving a decent car on a good run is no longer possible either. Lucky for me I’ll be long gone by your time scale.
hopefully I will be gone by then too. … I’m not wishing what I suggested, but I do believe the future will head in that direction. Heading off on the road for a week was once a big adventure, technology is destroying that
muckles:
So 
Relative used values of comparative trucks 18 speed v I shift.Or at least if I was buying one of them.Let’s just say that I’d rather pay $75,000 for the 18 speed than offer even $60,000 for the I shift.
Carryfast:
muckles:
http://www.nexttruckonline.com/search?category_level1=Sleeper+Trucks&make=VOLVO&model=VNL64T-780&state=Texas&year=2014&listing_id=4189945&s-type=truck
http://www.nexttruckonline.com/search?category_level1=Sleeper+Trucks&make=VOLVO&model=VNL64T-780&state=Oklahoma&year=2014&listing_id=3896431&s-type=truck
That’s fair enough at face value.But still leaves the question as to whether it will be the 18 speed which sells at closer to its asking price,than the I shifts all else being comparable.
And you and I don’t know the answer to that, but the man on here, who runs and owns both versions would prefer to drive the Ishift option as would it appears would his employee.
And you’re basing your opinion having never driven or operated a Volvo, US or European spec, with an Ishift box.
See here’s the thing, the ishift makes changes so smooth that they’re almost imperceptible, if the soundproofing of the engine was better you would have no idea a shift has taken place. The twin clutch system will be even better still, now I’m pretty handy with a Fuller box, I’ve driven well over a million miles stirring a Fuller box in heavy traffic and up and down mountains in good and bad weather and my skills are no match for ishift. This means that no matter how good you are, whether you float the gears or double declutch, the little box of gizmos that does the work in the ishift is better at changing gear than a mere mortal.
You can come up with all the ‘obvious’ questions and ramble on for 100 pages if you like, but the fact remains, no driver can do the job of changing gears as well as ishift can, you could equal it, but you’ll never beat it.
Add adaptive cruise and the GPS terrain recognition stuff to the superior changes off ishift and you have a tool for the job that will be operating at maximum efficiency at all times.
If you want a metaphor to describe somebody who despite all the evidence to the contrary still lives in a Walter Mitty world of supertruckers dressed in cowboy outfits jamming gears instead of sitting back and enjoying the ride, then it’s like turning down a session between the sheets with a bit of top totty to go home and rub one out over the underwear section of a Grattan catalogue…
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Juddian:
Why make fun personally out of any people making points you disagree with…instead of making a constructive argument about their argument, you have done this before and one could ask why you need to do so.
Last time i looked it was an open forum, now as such i’ve got my opinions about the long term results of drivers encouraging and welcoming things that will eventually lead to the loss of their jobs, if you disagree with my views then thats great i’ll be happy to discuss them, and hear the alternative views that you have to offer, i’ll give those views respect and won’t poke personal jibes at you.
Maybe CF has outdated views but thats in your opinion, but unless you were there at the time yourself and have hands on experience of those designs of 20 to 40 years ago, you can’t justifiably ridicule the view of the person who was there, CF in this case…
If you’re still doing the job in 20 years time you might find your views, whilst perfectly valid, being ignored and ridiculed because you don’t fit in with the hipsters of the day who ridicule you not put an argument against them instead of the person, its unpleasant and unecessary.
Feel free to tip as many buckets of salt as you wish, as i said before i’m not trying to convince anyone, if people wish to welcome things that will eventually see their jobs cheapened, deskilled and gradually eroded then feel free to do so.
I just think people should look a little further than next months or next years easily earned but increasingly smaller in real terms wage packet as the job gets opened up to more and more people who wouldn’t have wanted to, nor maybe have been capable of doing it when it was harder and dirtier.
Yes maybe the way forward is to employ people who are good with computer games to sit behind the wheel of lorries, no doubt whilst everythings ticking over nicely in the electronics they’ll do a sterling job of allowing the computer to drive, however in the real world those old school drivers, whom you and some others find so amusing, are the ones having no trouble getting the last of the well paying well termed jobs going…i have no doubt this will change, just don’t be surprised if the new electronic utopia is a bit of cheap disappointment when you arrive.
If everyone was as relentlessly serious as you it would make for a dull forum. It needs idiots like me sometimes. i made plenty of serious points on this thread, maybe you didn’t read them…
Oh and also my driving career started just under 20 years ago, driving buses, the oldest in the fleet at that time getting on for 30 years old, a couple with crash boxes, so I think I’m perfectly entitled to question Carryfasts views But hey, you wouldn’t be the first person to underestimate my level of experience. Probably because of my beautiful youthful hipster looks 
Carryfast:
muckles:
Carryfast:
Juddian:
just don’t be surprised if the new electronic utopia is a bit of cheap disappointment when you arrive.
There’s obviously going to at least be a foreseeable incentive,to recover the extra expense involved in buying and maintaining the technology,from the wage bill.
How much a year does it cost you to maintain the PC or other technological device you are using to access trucknet?
It’s more a case of run it and throw it away and buy a new one when it stops working.While an I shift and I see transmission package isn’t exactly a case of spending £300 at PC world to buy or replace it with new when it stops working.
IE there’s a ‘bit’ more technology and therefore cost involved in it both electronic and mechanical,v an ordinary Fuller box,than the cost of a cheap PC laptop.
This more expensive and more to go wrong arguments re technology are such outdated arguments. 1. Speccing a manual in a new truck would make it more expensive. Autos are standard equipment. 2. They rarely go wrong and finally 3. Very few companies buy new trucks outright. Most come with total maintenence packages with fixed costs over a set period. Anything going wrong, which on modern trucks is becoming rarer, is under warranty and therefore no extra costs are incurred. Even beyond warranty they’re fine. We have 10 year old double shifted iShifts that have never let us down. And that’s common.
switchlogic:
This more expensive and more to go wrong arguments re technology are such outdated arguments. 1. Speccing a manual in a new truck would make it more expensive. Autos are standard equipment. 2. They rarely go wrong and finally 3. Very few companies buy new trucks outright. Most come with total maintenence packages with fixed costs over a set period. Anything going wrong, which on modern trucks is becoming rarer, is under warranty and therefore no extra costs are incurred. Even beyond warranty they’re fine. We have 10 year old double shifted iShifts that have never let us down. And that’s common.
As I said the residual value is dependent on the ‘potential’ maintenance costs out of warranty and lease costs are based on depreciation not purchase price.The added complication of an automated manual realistically means higher ‘potential’ maintenance costs as opposed to an ordinary manual Fuller.IE your whole case is dependent on how others in the used market view your arguments not how you see it in which case as I’ve said if it was me buying a wagon for myself I wouldn’t be interested. .Although admittedly the EU won’t let us have the manual version because ze Germans can’t drive.
Having said all that other information also suggests that the I shift is based on a single countershaft box,as opposed to twin countershaft ? so yet more ‘progress’.
A manual in the secondhand market in the UK certainly wouldn’t attract a premium over an auto these days. Almost no one wants manuals now, that’s the long and the short of it Carryfast old bean
switchlogic:
A manual in the secondhand market in the UK certainly wouldn’t attract a premium over an auto these days. Almost no one wants manuals now, that’s the long and the short of it Carryfast old bean
Just to clarify that Luke, a manual Volvo FH or Renault Premium.
Not sure where this idea that manuals have been banned has come from, you can spec a manual, when I’ve looked around for secondhand trucks you do find quite a few manual Daf’s around, but very rarely see a late used manual FH.