stevieboy308:
But the new ones have a option that records the topography, so it knows it’s going to crest the hill without dropping the gears and they share info with other trucks with the feature, so a truck can have the data without driving it first.
how does the iShift share this data, does Volvo have its own internet connection, do Volvo continuously monitor all aspects of your vehicles performance ?
Bluey Circles:
stevieboy308:
But the new ones have a option that records the topography, so it knows it’s going to crest the hill without dropping the gears and they share info with other trucks with the feature, so a truck can have the data without driving it first.how does the iShift share this data, does Volvo have its own internet connection, do Volvo continuously monitor all aspects of your vehicles performance ?
Dynafleet. The trucks are connected to Volvo (and owner) via that for both to monitor should they wish too
newmercman:
So that kind of puts the kybosh on your arguments Carryfast. I’ve been there and done it in both, I also pay the bills and ishift is the best lorry transmission ever made.Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk
Oh NMN, you of all people know this isn’t how Carryfast operates! Who cares that he’s probably never even sat in stationary Volvo with iShift let alone driven one…CARRYFAST ONOWD BEST!
Sent from my Morphy Richards TeasMade 2000(z)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrRMBkh_-pg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FtGOw_K_Tkg
The topography data is downloaded to the trucks, all Scrapias have the same data, all DAF’s have the same data, all Volvo’s have the same data. There is no “Unique” data anymore, that was the older gen that did not download it. It makes sense to download the data as it doesn’t change.
The PCC is a joke as I pointed out previously, the last thing Mr Tipper 10 meters behind you is expecting, is for you to slow down 10km/h on a flat road to roll down a hill 500 yards away. The DAF will only let you reduce the speed to -5km/h, but still it is enough to cause a problem with the vehicle behind going for the overtake then you doing them on the inside.
ACC, the thing this thread is on about, is truly amazing as demonstrated here.
For some reason people seem to get the two mixed up.
SEDriver “The PCC is a joke as I pointed out previously, the last thing Mr Tipper 10 meters behind you is expecting, is for you to slow down 10km/h on a flat road to roll down a hill 500 yards away. The DAF will only let you reduce the speed to -5km/h, but still it is enough to cause a problem with the vehicle behind going for the overtake then you doing them on the inside.”
Agreed. Absolutely.
And check several previous posts from various others about how they creep up on another vehicle and then “realise” they`ve slowed down. I wonder how many of these will be aware of the potential overtaker behind then?
switchlogic:
Automatics have to be learnt too you know, to get the best from them. The best choice is employ a driver who is up to speed with and a fan of modern technology, he’s the man (or woman) who’ll get the best from your truck.
This is what I’ve been saying for ages. People hear the word automatic and assume it needs zero input. This isn’t the case if you want to get the best out of the box. Sure, iShift, Powershift and even ■■■-Chronic can be driven with zero input other than slamming your right boot to the floor but that’s not going to give the best results.
Autos have to be learned just the same as the old manuals and it really does seem that a lot of the so called old school drivers who act like gods coz they use to drive Eatons are not up to the job. If they were we wouldn’t be having this conversation. As annoying as some autos can be in certain situations I’d take them over any manual any day of the week.
Franglais:
SEDriver “The PCC is a joke as I pointed out previously, the last thing Mr Tipper 10 meters behind you is expecting, is for you to slow down 10km/h on a flat road to roll down a hill 500 yards away. The DAF will only let you reduce the speed to -5km/h, but still it is enough to cause a problem with the vehicle behind going for the overtake then you doing them on the inside.”
Agreed. Absolutely.
And check several previous posts from various others about how they creep up on another vehicle and then “realise” they`ve slowed down. I wonder how many of these will be aware of the potential overtaker behind then?
You wouldn’t call PCC a joke if you were paying the fuel bill on the truck. Screw Mr Tipper behind, if he’s tailgating me that’s his problem. I’ve been driving an MP4 with PCC (called PPC on Merc) for 2 years now with zero problems to report. Yes, it can back off and lose you 3-5km/h just before the crest of a hill or the start of a downward slope but I’ve not even had a following driver so much as flash or pip me, never mind nearly run into the back of me.
If Mr Tipper wants to overtake he should learn how to drive properly and pull out in good time.
Terry T:
switchlogic:
Automatics have to be learnt too you know, to get the best from them. The best choice is employ a driver who is up to speed with and a fan of modern technology, he’s the man (or woman) who’ll get the best from your truck.This is what I’ve been saying for ages. People hear the word automatic and assume it needs zero input. This isn’t the case if you want to get the best out of the box. Sure, iShift, Powershift and even ■■■-Chronic can be driven with zero input other than slamming your right boot to the floor but that’s not going to give the best results.
Autos have to be learned just the same as the old manuals and it really does seem that a lot of the so called old school drivers who act like gods coz they use to drive Eatons are not up to the job. If they were we wouldn’t be having this conversation. As annoying as some autos can be in certain situations I’d take them over any manual any day of the week.
Blimey make your minds up.
NMM says that the things can drive themselves with just a trained monkey to steer the wagon.
The type of driver who can tell it what to do,if that’s what it needs,will be exactly the type of driver who can drive a fuller box properly because that’s just a case of matching the right gear and road speed and engine speed correctly and accurately to the conditions.Bearing in mind the driver has eyes and the auto box is blind.
While the idea that someone who can drive a Fuller correctly,or more like 12 ZF constant mesh 
,isn’t suited to the job of telling an auto box what to do is a contradiction because synchro boxes,let alone autos,are designed for exactly the type of driver who is ‘challenged’ in terms of driving ability.In which case putting that type of driver in charge of telling an auto what to do is about as much use as a 6x2 Scania with Robson drive stuck in a snow drift in Canada or deep sand in the Arabian desert. 
As for wiring the thing up to all the GPS/interweb/sky net/Artificial Intelligence electro bollox to make up for it’s lack of eyes 
how much is all this techno bs costing to buy.Let alone maintain when it all goes wrong out of warranty.In which case resale value of I shift with I see v 13 speed Fuller is a no brainer. 
Which then just leaves the question of actually employing a driver who can actually drive.Which contrary to all the general consensus is actually a good thing.
Terry T:
Franglais:
SEDriver “The PCC is a joke as I pointed out previously, the last thing Mr Tipper 10 meters behind you is expecting, is for you to slow down 10km/h on a flat road to roll down a hill 500 yards away. The DAF will only let you reduce the speed to -5km/h, but still it is enough to cause a problem with the vehicle behind going for the overtake then you doing them on the inside.”
Agreed. Absolutely.
And check several previous posts from various others about how they creep up on another vehicle and then “realise” they`ve slowed down. I wonder how many of these will be aware of the potential overtaker behind then?You wouldn’t call PCC a joke if you were paying the fuel bill on the truck. Screw Mr Tipper behind, if he’s tailgating me that’s his problem. I’ve been driving an MP4 with PCC (called PPC on Merc) for 2 years now with zero problems to report. Yes, it can back off and lose you 3-5km/h just before the crest of a hill or the start of a downward slope but I’ve not even had a following driver so much as flash or pip me, never mind nearly run into the back of me.
If Mr Tipper wants to overtake he should learn how to drive properly and pull out in good time.
Were suggesting that unaware drivers will simply allow their vehicle to slow, allow someone (your Mr Tipper) to pull out for an overtake, and then accelerate leaving him in the outside lane. Id suggest that is, at the least, inconsiderate. Learning to drive includes not accelerating when being overtaken.
And do you have any figures about how much fuel PCC will save? OK, that`s a “length of a piece of string” question, but any figures would be good. (Well apart from unsupported sales brochures that say “up to X%” that is)
Carryfast:
Terry T:
switchlogic:
Automatics have to be learnt too you know, to get the best from them. The best choice is employ a driver who is up to speed with and a fan of modern technology, he’s the man (or woman) who’ll get the best from your truck.This is what I’ve been saying for ages. People hear the word automatic and assume it needs zero input. This isn’t the case if you want to get the best out of the box. Sure, iShift, Powershift and even ■■■-Chronic can be driven with zero input other than slamming your right boot to the floor but that’s not going to give the best results.
Autos have to be learned just the same as the old manuals and it really does seem that a lot of the so called old school drivers who act like gods coz they use to drive Eatons are not up to the job. If they were we wouldn’t be having this conversation. As annoying as some autos can be in certain situations I’d take them over any manual any day of the week.
Blimey make your minds up.
NMM says that the things can drive themselves with just a trained monkey to steer the wagon.
The type of driver who can tell it what to do,if that’s what it needs,will be exactly the type of driver who can drive a fuller box properly because that’s just a case of matching the right gear and road speed and engine speed correctly and accurately to the conditions.Bearing in mind the driver has eyes and the auto box is blind.
While the idea that someone who can drive a Fuller correctly,or more like 12 ZF constant mesh
As for wiring the thing up to all the GPS/interweb/sky net/Artificial Intelligence electro bollox to make up for it’s lack of eyes
Which then just leaves the question of actually employing a driver who can actually drive.Which contrary to all the general consensus is actually a good thing.
Good one CF, excellent post.
Volvo it must be said are streets ahead of the competition, can’t remember having to intervene with the thing when i had one full time, even the first one i drove circa 92 Geartronic in an FL10 did exactly what it was supposed to…so how come Arsetronic and Merc’s equivalent joke transmissions are still so utterly useless for normal progress 24 years later is a lesson in non progress…in more ways than one.
Luckily the move to electronics isn’t going to worry me past 2021, i could carry on where i am indefinately assuming i keep me health and me licence, but to be quite honest the job holds little interest any more with it increasingly becoming a spectator occupation as the lorry takes to driving itself, there is little pleasure or pride in being a paid passenger behind a wheel in a shiny ‘‘big truck’’ full of electronic carp doing the driving, what a boring future prospect for those who have 3 or 4 decades to go, hmm could be 5 decades of attending a steering wheel and pressing D when the retirement reaches 70 or beyond.
Oh and Franglais, you asked about fuel improvements… …well me old mate we’ve gone from manuals on this job right round to euro 6 arsetronic and other boxed artics of several makes, guess what the fuel difference is between those good old simple euro 3/4’s and the 6’s…well if anything they’re a bloody sight worse than the old ones, at best about the same…they might be all right fannying about with 3or 12 ton of parcels or breakfast cereals on the back, but at max weight, nope…despite all the promises and pretty graphs and figures they brandish about…one of our euro 6 Dafs is the heaviest fuel user on the fleet and won’t pull you out of bed like its sisters, its bloody hilarious like a carry on film with good old Sid James hamming it up.
Juddian, I`m amazed that you believe what you see with your own eyes, when the snake-oil-city- slickers (a.k.a. truck salesmen) tell you different, about how much better these thing are.
A driver that thinks for itself? What are trucks computers gonna do??
Franglais:
Juddian, I`m amazed that you believe what you see with your own eyes, when the snake-oil-city- slickers (a.k.a. truck salesmen) tell you different, about how much better these thing are.
A driver that thinks for itself? What are trucks computers gonna do??
I wouldn’t mind but the simple 460 manual CF’s we had before went like buggery, were always in the right gear, and just as good on fuel as anything else.
Somehow we managed to control 'em in roadworks too, staggering innit…
We’ve got auto-park cars, it isn’t going to be long where trucks will back themselves onto bays at rdc’s and such like.
Give it time.
Sent from my knackered HP Pavilion.
Carryfast you know what I meant, you were talking about being in the wrong gear at roundabouts etc. That’s when ishift always picks the right gear, when cresting a hill it may change down unnecessarily, as you rightly point out, it cannot see, but a simple pull back into manual sorts that out.
What far too many drivers fail to grasp is that they are not automatic, but automated. There is a big difference between the two.
That is why drivers get frustrated with them, they expect the box to automatically know what to do, which in some instances, accelerating up to speed or resuming speed, they will as the programmes in the electronic brain will do that perfectly. However there isn’t a computer chip in the world able to have a programme for every scenario a typical lorry faces in a day’s work and this is where the automated part enters the equation, you use your eyes, judge which gear to be in and push a little button and as if by magic the automated manual transmission selects the gear of your choice and away you trundle without any drama or fuss.
Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk
Franglais:
Were suggesting that unaware drivers will simply allow their vehicle to slow, allow someone (your Mr Tipper) to pull out for an overtake, and then accelerate leaving him in the outside lane. Id suggest that is, at the least, inconsiderate. Learning to drive includes not accelerating when being overtaken.
And do you have any figures about how much fuel PCC will save? OK, that`s a “length of a piece of string” question, but any figures would be good. (Well apart from unsupported sales brochures that say “up to X%” that is)
No, I don’t have figures. But seeing as PCC costs (on Merc at least, not sure on others) around £1300 I’m assuming fleet owners are seeing some kind of return on such an expensive add on.
If someone is about to overtake you just before you slow down then they’re obviously faster than you. How else would they have crept up on you. By slowing down before the crest of a hill you’re actually helping them overtake you quicker coz you’re gonna pick up speed going down the hill anyway. My engine brake is set to kick in at 90km/h and I’ll get to 90 far quicker if I have PCC turned off.
Never known this to cause any problem whatsoever either when I’ve gained speed while being overtaken or when someone I’m overtaking has gained speed themselves. Hills don’t last forever. So an overtake lasts a minute instead of 20 seconds. Hardly stop the press news is it really. Happens on every hill of every motorway every day I would imagine.
However there isn’t a computer chip in the world able to have a programme for every scenario a typical lorry faces in a day’s work and this is where the automated part enters the equation, you use your eyes, judge which gear to be in and push a little button and as if by magic the automated manual transmission selects the gear of your choice and away you trundle without any drama or fuss.
Not rocket science is it.
Merc’s equivalent joke transmissions are still so utterly useless for normal progress
I drive one every day and make perfectly good progress with it with minimal interaction. I can’t understand how anyone would find making progress so difficult.
Juddian:
Carryfast:
Terry T:
switchlogic:
Automatics have to be learnt too you know, to get the best from them. The best choice is employ a driver who is up to speed with and a fan of modern technology, he’s the man (or woman) who’ll get the best from your truck.This is what I’ve been saying for ages. People hear the word automatic and assume it needs zero input. This isn’t the case if you want to get the best out of the box. Sure, iShift, Powershift and even ■■■-Chronic can be driven with zero input other than slamming your right boot to the floor but that’s not going to give the best results.
Autos have to be learned just the same as the old manuals and it really does seem that a lot of the so called old school drivers who act like gods coz they use to drive Eatons are not up to the job. If they were we wouldn’t be having this conversation. As annoying as some autos can be in certain situations I’d take them over any manual any day of the week.
Blimey make your minds up.
NMM says that the things can drive themselves with just a trained monkey to steer the wagon.
The type of driver who can tell it what to do,if that’s what it needs,will be exactly the type of driver who can drive a fuller box properly because that’s just a case of matching the right gear and road speed and engine speed correctly and accurately to the conditions.Bearing in mind the driver has eyes and the auto box is blind.
While the idea that someone who can drive a Fuller correctly,or more like 12 ZF constant mesh
As for wiring the thing up to all the GPS/interweb/sky net/Artificial Intelligence electro bollox to make up for it’s lack of eyes
Which then just leaves the question of actually employing a driver who can actually drive.Which contrary to all the general consensus is actually a good thing.
Good one CF, excellent post.
Volvo it must be said are streets ahead of the competition, can’t remember having to intervene with the thing when i had one full time, even the first one i drove circa 92 Geartronic in an FL10 did exactly what it was supposed to…so how come Arsetronic and Merc’s equivalent joke transmissions are still so utterly useless for normal progress 24 years later is a lesson in non progress…in more ways than one.
Luckily the move to electronics isn’t going to worry me past 2021, i could carry on where i am indefinately assuming i keep me health and me licence, but to be quite honest the job holds little interest any more with it increasingly becoming a spectator occupation as the lorry takes to driving itself, there is little pleasure or pride in being a paid passenger behind a wheel in a shiny ‘‘big truck’’ full of electronic carp doing the driving, what a boring future prospect for those who have 3 or 4 decades to go, hmm could be 5 decades of attending a steering wheel and pressing D when the retirement reaches 70 or beyond.
Oh and Franglais, you asked about fuel improvements…
You two are so funny. A man with rose tinted spectacles so thick they’re like milk bottle bottoms conversing with a man who’s not driven a lorry in nearly 20 years about all that’s wrong with modern lorries. Excuse me if I take it with a bucket of salt.
Though I do like the prospect of having an ‘electronic carp’ to do the driving.
newmercman:
Carryfast you know what I meant, you were talking about being in the wrong gear at roundabouts etc. That’s when ishift always picks the right gear, when cresting a hill it may change down unnecessarily, as you rightly point out, it cannot see, but a simple pull back into manual sorts that out.What far too many drivers fail to grasp is that they are not automatic, but automated. There is a big difference between the two.
To be fair the approach to an empty roundabout on a level gradient is going to require a different downshift regime than the approach to a roundabout with loads of traffic on it on an uphill gradient for just one example.Or how does it know the difference between approaching a T junction with a stop sign v just having to slow down for someone turning off ahead for two examples.
In which case the advantage of a pair of eyes attached to a human brain,which directly controls the clutch,braking,and engine speed matching all for free through the biological marvel of the human nervous system and limbs,as part of the driver’s wages.All connected to the cost saving device known as the good old fashioned constant mesh transmission,is surely a massive leap forward in technology from the point of view of lifetime operating costs. 
Or have I missed something.
Edit to add have you got any figures for residual values of I shift v standard 13/18 speed Fuller ?.Because if it was me in the out of warranty market sector I wouldn’t touch the former just through probably reasonable scepticism of all the added techno complication and resulting expensive maintenance back up requirement.
switchlogic:
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[/quote]
You two are so funny. A man with rose tinted spectacles so thick they’re like milk bottle bottoms conversing with a man who’s not driven a lorry in nearly 20 years about all that’s wrong with modern lorries. Excuse me if I take it with a bucket of salt.
[/quote]
Why make fun personally out of any people making points you disagree with…instead of making a constructive argument about their argument, you have done this before and one could ask why you need to do so.
Last time i looked it was an open forum, now as such i’ve got my opinions about the long term results of drivers encouraging and welcoming things that will eventually lead to the loss of their jobs, if you disagree with my views then thats great i’ll be happy to discuss them, and hear the alternative views that you have to offer, i’ll give those views respect and won’t poke personal jibes at you.
Maybe CF has outdated views but thats in your opinion, but unless you were there at the time yourself and have hands on experience of those designs of 20 to 40 years ago, you can’t justifiably ridicule the view of the person who was there, CF in this case…
If you’re still doing the job in 20 years time you might find your views, whilst perfectly valid, being ignored and ridiculed because you don’t fit in with the hipsters of the day who ridicule you not put an argument against them instead of the person, its unpleasant and unecessary.
Feel free to tip as many buckets of salt as you wish, as i said before i’m not trying to convince anyone, if people wish to welcome things that will eventually see their jobs cheapened, deskilled and gradually eroded then feel free to do so.
I just think people should look a little further than next months or next years easily earned but increasingly smaller in real terms wage packet as the job gets opened up to more and more people who wouldn’t have wanted to, nor maybe have been capable of doing it when it was harder and dirtier.
Yes maybe the way forward is to employ people who are good with computer games to sit behind the wheel of lorries, no doubt whilst everythings ticking over nicely in the electronics they’ll do a sterling job of allowing the computer to drive, however in the real world those old school drivers, whom you and some others find so amusing, are the ones having no trouble getting the last of the well paying well termed jobs going…i have no doubt this will change, just don’t be surprised if the new electronic utopia is a bit of cheap disappointment when you arrive.
switchlogic:
You two are so funny. A man with rose tinted spectacles so thick they’re like milk bottle bottoms conversing with a man who’s not driven a lorry in nearly 20 years about all that’s wrong with modern lorries.
To be fair.The anomaly in which going from a truck with a mimimal expense transmission,controlled by the human brain and its eyes,to a massively complicated and resultingly expensive,but blind one.Or an even more complicated/expensive,but still ( very ) compromised eye sight one,to reduce the input of the driver,who you’re still paying for,all being considered as ‘progress’,isn’t really our fault.