Abolish/Scrap the CPC Legislation

[shep532]

Tony1234 - I did not attempt to cause any embarrasment to anyone and certainly not you. I come across this negative attitude towards DCPC almost every week and I get mildly annoyed about it when so often that person does need pointing in the right direction

trust me when I say I am used to the “you don’t even drive what do you know” and “I’ve been doing this job since before you could drive” routine. probably heard it all

In 99% of cases I refer the driver to the VOSA GV262 and we read out what we find. I get the driver to read the appropriate section to everyone else - it soon dawns on the driver/s concerned that what they were saying is not in that book. often they will then insist the book is out of date or even wrong. What this does in reinforce to the others that are present that sometimes listening to another driver doesn’t always reveal the right information.

I will freely admit there are trainers who are completely wrong and misguided - just as there are drivers and managers in the same boat. This will always happen and eventually through audits, inspections and customer complaints they will slowly go out of business but probably to be replaced by the next person jumping on the DCPC bandwagon.

I like to think there are more offering quality (or at least correct) training than offering below standard. perhaps I am wrong.

Either way - apologies accepted.

Now why doesn’t someone start a sensible e-petition to have the scheme changed and sort out some of the current downfalls?

1. Shorter courses (allowing 3 1/2 hour courses to count)
2. Maybe a test/exam (not to sure about that)
3. Unable to repeat courses in the same year (no harm in a rules & regs refresher each year)
4. More checks on course content by the authorities.
5. Smaller classes - 20 in a room is just too much in my mind
6. Place the responsibility on the employer - not the driver.

Pete

[truckerjon]

So there you are then, some drivers can’t quote the law chapter and verse, so as a result we all must take 35 hours training during 5 years. Question for all the trainers on here, how long does it take to teach drivers hours,RTD and tachograph use? 35 hours? In the above scenario if the driver was unsure wether he was legal or not all he needed to do was endorse the back of his chart with the reason for delay,then take another 45 at the earliest opportunity. That’s covered him both ways. Leaving an analogue disc on rest is no different to leaving it on other work or POA, it’s just as easy to forget to change it when you are doing other work, and in that case you could be in bigger trouble.:
As an instructor for the past 15 years, I can quote 100’s of examples of mimisinformed drivers, but not one warranted more than a 10 minute chat to set them straight.

[war1974]

mind you shep its not a bad living for standing in a classroom is it 500x 70 say as a min = 35k per year.

here is a training course found for the pricely sum of 95

Course objectives:
To provide drivers with sufficient knowledge and understanding of the potential drivers’ health and safety hazards and related risks.
COURSE SYLLABUS

-Driver’s legal obligations
-HASW Act
-Manual handling (MH)
-Workplace safety
-Working at height

-Human anatomy
-Types of (MH) injuries
-Safe working on vehicles
-Slips & trips
-Use of PPE

so please tell me what about that is useful to anyone? why does a driver need human anatomy? i have a degree in sport science which is mainly ‘the body’ its never been a use to me as a driver! slips and trips again so open to the type of driving work you do! ppe again i have worked for companies that as a minimum want hiviz jacket class 3 trousers goggles and hard hat yet others will take a class 2 hi viz i really cant be arsed to get into a debate about the rest as this is my beef with the dcpc people are taking others hard earned to deliver drivel (unless it the hours rules and regs which i do think a 7 hours refresher every 2 years would be useful but should not cost that much).

sorry you can use any arguement about the drivers who were wrong but i bet most have never had an endorsement for breaking the law and the owner driver who you quoted should give up driving if he ‘really’ needed to ring you to ask that

[happy_keith]

truckerjon:

Wheel Nut:

‘…The German Government are giving funding to the employers to pay the trainers…’

‘…Problem is, the German government has money to give, we don’t … Even if we did, I can’t see any of our lords and masters handing out free cash to help a common working man. If the training companies are run by the Brother in law, or pal from the same lodge as an MP, then possibly they might fund the training, but not for you or me…’

Off post perhaps, but don’t get drawn into misconceptions from TJ’s potentially scurrilous insinuation. That said, I understand his passion albeit possibly made from an innocently common but inaccurate misconception.

Firstly, please understand that Lodges that Freemasons use are not places where any money is spent, given or otherwise donated to projects/needs in which the Government has even the tiniest influence.

That is because politics (along with the significant other of religion) is a forbidden arena of business or discussion - although ‘…lodges…’ of other fraternities may differ This is because Freemasons Lodges are places of harmony and thus openly avoid the pitfalls often associated with such topics.

Secondly, members Freemason’s Lodges do not consider themselves to be in places of either ‘…Lords…’ or ‘…masters…’

Finally - and much to their credit, Freemasons Lodges are full of ‘…common working m[e]n…’: They accept, encourage, need and warmly embrace lorry drivers -and none of that is secret

[shep532]

war1974:
mind you shep its not a bad living for standing in a classroom is it 500x 70 say as a min = 35k per year.

Here we go again How many times do I have to tell you drivers - that Range Rover Sport isn’t cheap to run - and the wifes Audi? Geez I thought a 4.2 V8 diesel would do more to the gallon than that!

When you hand your £2.50 over for a pint at the pub do you honestly think the full £2.50 is theirs? Or do you appreciate they have certain costs to cover to enable them to stand there and serve the pint?

I charge ANY trucknet member £25.00 per 7 hour course. there are members on here can confirm that. Of that I pay £8.75 to the DSA and £4.16 is vat leaving me the extortinate rate of £12.09 per person. If you aren’t a trucknet member then it’s £50 + vat

I have to pay rent, business rates, electric, water, tea, coffee, insurances, printing of hand outs, supply of the required certificate, supply of various bits of equipment and teaching aids. I have to either pay someone to clean up after some of the lovely lads have ■■■■■■ all over the toilet floor (and some don’t know what that brush in the corner is for either), spilt coffee on my carpet and generally made a mess (that 5th wheel grease still won’t come out of the carpet), or spend an hour or two doing it myself. I’ve even had to spend 2 hours getting writing off a desk - and yes I had supplied some paper but … well you know how it is when you feel compelled to tell everyone ‘I waz ere’ and ‘Scania rules’.

Of course there is the time to administer the course and various JAUPT requirements. I had to spend the time putting the course together, obtaining materials and teaching aids etc, jumping through the JAUPT hoops to get approval

Then I have to actually spend time running my business. VAT to account for, PAYE, accounts to maintain (oh and an accountants bill to pay) and then after all this … there just might be something left at the end called profit.

Unfortunately I then have to let Mr HMRC know about that bit and give them a few quid of it just to keep them at bay.

Yes I make money from poor unfortunate drivers that have had this legislation thrown at them - that’s called business. Luckily I have other income streams as I certainly don’t make enough from DCPC. I would prefer that all of my work came from businesses rather than individuals but some companies just aren’t going to pay for the DCPC

Anyway - back to your original point - spread those 500+ over the last 2 1/2 years since the DCPC began and well … not a bad living at all

Now where’s that Bently catalogue gone? This Range Rover’s getting on my ■■■■ …

[wheel_nut]

shep532:
I’ve even had to spend 2 hours getting writing off a desk - and yes I had supplied some paper but … well you know how it is when you feel compelled to tell everyone ‘I waz ere’ and ‘Scania rules’.

Now where’s that Bently catalogue gone? This Range Rover’s getting on my ■■■■ …

NOTE to Self!
Must make content more interesting

I am sorry for you Shep, there are some dirty pigs out there, fifth wheel grease on a day off?

[conor]

Banquo:
The point about the cpc is that it does not improve driving standards in it’s present form.

1. Driving standards in the uk are among the highest in the world
2. If you pass your hgv licence you have proved yourself to be a professional advanced driver.

I heard another driver say to a trainer “what on earth are you going to talk about in class room for 7 hours”

The current HGV driving test does not teach:

Drivers Hours
How to use a digital tachograph
How to use ratchet straps
How to open curtains
How to distribute a load
or a whole raft of other things you need to know to do the job.

The current HGV driving test teaches you how to drive the wagon safely, how to do daily checks and how to couple a trailer. Nothing more, nothing less. Passing the test does not prove you are a professional driver. It proves that you know the basics to move the vehicle forward, change gear, turn corners and reverse in a S pattern. As far as I am aware, you still take the test in an empty vehicle which gives you absolutely sod all idea of how said vehicle responds on cornering and braking when it weighs an additional 28 tonnes. There’s a world of difference between how a 16 tonne tractor trailer combo handles and the same vehicle fully loaded at 44 tonnes.

[dessy]

This thread is going to run for a very very very very long time!!

Trainers love it but are not coining it yet!
Drivers at companies who pay for theirs and wages are happy! I wonder later when they get no extra pay though?
Drivers who have to pay for their own obviously are not happy as most are earning not a lot as it is! And work for companies who probably should have been taking the burden of training costs over the years but chose to let the big companies do it for them! Should have ZERO drivers come 2014!

After all! All these companies will not negotiate your pay requirements at interview stage!

Everyone should get a gig at Stobarts,DHL etc and get it all free!

[shep532]

Wheel Nut:
NOTE to Self!
Must make content more interesting

Yeah I walked into that one didn’t I?

Wheel Nut:
I am sorry for you Shep, there are some dirty pigs out there, fifth wheel grease on a day off?

He didn’t wear his day off clothes … many don’t.

[war1974]

haha ok shep fair enough but you maybe in the minority for your charges like i say i agree that 1, newbies should have to do it as it will save a lot of hassle and looking stupid at a transport desk. 2. all drivers should be required to do a hours rules and regs every 2 years!

as for the graffiti and lack of aim it just makes you wonder how they live

anyway being a mere driver not a jaupt trainer am off to get into my 996cc micra p reg

[shep532]

war1974:
anyway being a mere driver not a jaupt trainer am off to get into my 996cc micra p reg

My bike has a bigger engine

[war1974]

i dont know range rover and a bike you must have some 2nd job

[shep532]

war1974:
i dont know range rover and a bike you must have some 2nd job

OK - there’s no Range Rover it’s actually a Honda Accord and the wife drives a Fiat 500. The bike does have a bigger engine than your car though

[war1974]

yeah but i get 50mpg and i dont get wet when it rains, plus i dont look good in leather

[happy_keith]

Conor:
‘…The current HGV driving test teaches you how to drive the wagon safely, how to do daily checks and how to couple a trailer. Nothing more, nothing less…’

Incorrect.

This is because the tests referred to are administered tests of an individual’s ability to meet - or fail to meet - a specific standard of a given curriculum over a given timespan with specified equipment and within certain conditions as assessed by a Government employee.

With that understanding we may appreciate that encouragement, coercion, lessons, teaching, mentoring, guidance, structured advice & counselling ‘teach’ and tests are there to ‘test’ their effectiveness.

Thus, there is sufficient scope for our (albeit witless & spineless) British Government not to go to the EU’s OTT DCPC hypnotism much beloved by the (anti UK?) pro-DCPCfraternity.

As professional drivers, our focus ought to be asking why the Lib/Lab/Cons choose for Brussels to beat us with the DCPC stick on their behalf in which case I put it to you that they are inept at leading us

[happydaze]

shep532:

tachograph:

shep532:
Today i got a call from an owner operator who has been in the job 20+ years. “I’m stuck there’s been an accident and my 4 1/2 hours drive is almost up. What do i do?” He went on to explain he had been sitting in the cab for 4 1/2 hours - but hadn’t moved for the last 50 minutes and was now panicking about getting his break. he had no idea that legally - he had just had his break sitting in the jam.

Not unless he’d put his tachograph onto break he hadn’t

Being a highly skilled and extremely experienced driver he always drives with his analogue tacho “On break so I don’t forget”

I’ve seen his charts - he has one of those special shifts where all he ever does is drive - break - drive - break.
Lucky git eh?

Ah, the rest of the tale. Now I believe you.
What’s wrong with leaving it on break? I did it for, ooh eight years maybe? I’ve handed cards to officials in every country in Europe and never been advised not to do it until you said so.

So what’s the problem?

[wheel_nut]

I just spent a sunny afternoon reading the SFL report on the DCPC.

In my special Michael Caine Voice.

Did You Know?

That there are 645,323 vocational C+E licence holders in the UK.

There is a need for about 300,000 drivers in total from a pool of over 900,000 (all Classes)

That the average take home wage for these employed drivers is £435 for 42 hours as opposed to £485 for 37.5 hours for the rest of the employed workers.

That 1% of the workforce is a lorry driver, and of that 1% only 1% is a Lady.

It makes us quite a small part of the food chain when it is put like that, like the amoeba on the sea bed.

Not a lot of people knew that.

Figures lifted from the Office of National Statistics (ONS)

[shep532]

Happydaze:
Ah, the rest of the tale. Now I believe you.
What’s wrong with leaving it on break? I did it for, ooh eight years maybe? I’ve handed cards to officials in every country in Europe and never been advised not to do it until you said so.

So what’s the problem?

As far as I can see it is almost impossible to have a working day that consists of only drive and breaks.
Arriving at a delivery point and booking in = work.
Opening curtains = work.
Walk round checks = work.
Securing your load = work.

If the mode is left on break - at some point you will have worked whilst recoding break.

Most tacho analysis would pick up a chart with only drive - break - drive for ‘possible’ miss-use of mode switch.

But as you say - you did it for 8 years and no problem. I know plenty of others who have and still do. I know some who out of desperation I have advised (off the record) to do so because they forgot to record break so many times every flamin day!

I habitually speed as soon as I get on my bike and so far have never been caught - doesn’t make it right though eh?

[happydaze]

shep532:

Happydaze:
Ah, the rest of the tale. Now I believe you.
What’s wrong with leaving it on break? I did it for, ooh eight years maybe? I’ve handed cards to officials in every country in Europe and never been advised not to do it until you said so.

So what’s the problem?

As far as I can see it is almost impossible to have a working day that consists of only drive and breaks.
Arriving at a delivery point and booking in = work.
Opening curtains = work.
Walk round checks = work.
Securing your load = work.

If the mode is left on break - at some point you will have worked whilst recoding break.

Most tacho analysis would pick up a chart with only drive - break - drive for ‘possible’ miss-use of mode switch.

But as you say - you did it for 8 years and no problem. I know plenty of others who have and still do. I know some who out of desperation I have advised (off the record) to do so because they forgot to record break so many times every flamin day!

I habitually speed as soon as I get on my bike and so far have never been caught - doesn’t make it right though eh?

No, but it’s just ant-shagging really. Obviously, if I was doing 40 or 50 drops around London I’d leave it on other work. I think kow-towing to analysts or authorities too much is unhealthy for them and the people actually doing the job out in real-world-land.

Which is why I do the same as you, on my bike!

[tachograph]

shep532:
I habitually speed as soon as I get on my bike and so far have never been caught - doesn’t make it right though eh?

The fact that you speed doesn’t make it right, it’s the fact that you don’t get caught that makes it right