tachograph:
shep532:
I habitually speed as soon as I get on my bike and so far have never been caught - doesn’t make it right though eh?The fact that you speed doesn’t make it right, it’s the fact that you don’t get caught that makes it right
+1 
Those of us that ride bikes all know there is a specific exemption from most speed limits - it’s the law don’t ya know 
shep532:
Those of us that ride bikes all know there is a specific exemption from most speed limits - it’s the law don’t ya know
I can preach chapter and verse on 561/2006 and WTD. But give me a motorcycle and the law books get thrown away
Tony4562:
Hands up !!! Im incorrect on a couple of posts I have made regarding Breaks/Rest (my apologies Shep (I withdraw my statement about Training 500+) I myself have proved a point that my knowledge should be better and my understanding of the definition of a break and rest was wrong. I have made a case for further training and as such destroyed the very basis to abolish/scrap the cpc, due to my not quoting Tacho regs correctly. I therefore cannot ask for support for the e-petition submitted in my name, when I have openly on a forum discredited myself. My apologies to everyone that signed it, but I cannot be the named proposer of this e-petition due to my own ignorance/mistake. Therefore I will request the e-petition to be removed, as I am the proposer.I publically apologise to all.
Re: my above post, the e-petition has now been rejected by HM Government due to the reasons stated above. So No further signing of the petition can be made. The petition also has had a write up in this weeks Commercial Motor Magazine (I had tried to inform them that I was withdrawing the e-petition and reasons why, but the magazine had already gone to press, at the time I informed them.)
I believe that a better worded petition submitted by someone other than me, requesting that the cpc scheme be changed, may be a better option. (which I would fully support)
I have accepted that I am just a driver and I can not quote everything by the book (lesson learnt & acted on), but like most drivers we do the job to the best of our ability, working long hours for not that great a wage. To have our wages depleted with the introduction of more and more legislation is wrong. Time will tell what effect this will have on recruitment/retention of drivers and the Industry.
cpc legislation, is it about money, drivers or the industry. (I wonder which comes first)
Oh well back to work for me on Monday, after a lovely week of work (holiday entitlement) Should’nt of mentioned that should I (We could all do our 35hrs training during one of our weeks holiday entitlement)
Tony4562:
cpc legislation, is it about money, drivers or the industry. (I wonder which comes first)
For me that’s an easy one, the Driver CPC regulations are set-up in a way that people will make money.
Road safety, raising the skill level of the driver or encouraging young people to make a career in road transport as drivers probably was never even thought of, if either of those things were a consideration then the people who came up with the regulations must have been complete idiots to think that what we now have could meat the requirement.
On a more personal level, I’m sorry things didn’t work out for on this issue you but stick around TN anyway
Tony4562:
‘…cpc legislation, is it about money, drivers or the industry…’ ?
It’s about the expansion of the European Union with neither Britain’s best interest at heart nor the democratic agreement of us, the people paying for it at £45 million per day from our taxes.
Hi Tony,
I had an appointment with a potential customer today. He has 12 drivers and wanted to put all 12 through the full 35 hours before the end of this year. I merrily went to the meeting thinking I had this in the bag.
10 minutes into my well prepared speech he threw a magazine across the desk and said “Have you read this?” I quickly scanned the pages all about some e-petition that was going to get the DCPC scrapped. 
“You think I’m going to waste my time and money putting my drivers through training with you when the whole thing is going to get scrapped? Think again Pete. We won’t be arranging any training”
Within 5 minutes I was back in my car with my notebook shoved up me arse.
So - your e-petition did achieve something … I lost some good paying work and 12 drivers won’t be getting their DCPC for free 
I’m sure I will pull it back round though. 
Funny how one magazine article suggesting scrapping the scheme can cause someone to believe it will happen.
Your suggestion of another e-petition with sensible suggestions to modify the DCPC scheme is to be honest a great idea. The problem will be coming up with a sensible set of suggestions that can be justified and verified as improving the scheme.
shep532:
So - your e-petition did achieve something … I lost some good paying work and 12 drivers won’t be getting their DCPC for free
Sorry but it’s nonsense to suggest that the e-petition was responsible for courses being cancelled or not being booked in the first place.
Put it down to idiotic management if you like, you can’t blame the e-petition for a manager/boss being as thick as two short planks
If I believed everything written in a magazine, I would be Pro EU, anti EU, think Man Utd are the best, but Real Madrid are better, believe that diana is alive with Elvis, and that she was killed by the queen. I would eat potaotes, not eat potatoes, i would buy a BMW, would’nt buy a BMW but a merc instead. I would drive a scania, and drive a DAF, i wouldn’t listen to CD’s only vinyl, or I would listen to CD’s and sell my record deck. I would watch only BBC, or watch only ITV…well i think by now you get the picture. so, anyone who bases such an important decision about the training of his workforce on ONE magazine article, quite frankly is amark one Prat!
tachograph:
shep532:
So - your e-petition did achieve something … I lost some good paying work and 12 drivers won’t be getting their DCPC for freeSorry but it’s nonsense to suggest that the e-petition was responsible for courses being cancelled or not being booked in the first place.
Put it down to idiotic management if you like, you can’t blame the e-petition for a manager/boss being as thick as two short planks
I’m not blaming anybody or the e-petition. i just stated the e-petition did achieve something. i can’t believe somebody makes a decision based on one article in a magazine but it was that magazine that was thrown across the desk at me. I was already a few weeks into this deal. Dates were set, I’d gone out of my way to sort it - including some evening classes with 3 1/2 hours day 1 and 3 1/2 hours day 2. it was a done deal then … well you know what happened 
Like i said - I’ll pull it back round. I have his MDs mobile number
As a footnote to all this DCPC rubbish the UK is facing a looming driver shortage for Large Goods Vehicles.
A new report identifies a sub-optimal uptake of driver CPC periodic training with a predicted shortfall of 1.7 million training hours or nearly 250,000 seven-hour courses by 2014.
Currently only 8.2 per cent of drivers have received their DQC as a result of completing 35 hours worth of training required for a CPC.
Full article HERE
moomooland:
As a footnote to all this DCPC rubbish the UK is facing a looming driver shortage for Large Goods Vehicles.
A new report identifies a sub-optimal uptake of driver CPC periodic training with a predicted shortfall of 1.7 million training hours or nearly 250,000 seven-hour courses by 2014.
Currently only 8.2 per cent of drivers have received their DQC as a result of completing 35 hours worth of training required for a CPC.
Full article HERE
To be fair that report was written by Skills for Logistics who have their own agenda, by creating the idea that there is or will be a serious driver shortage they can not only ensure further government funding but also ensure support for their own existence.
This dcpc thing remindes me of the fuss about that BS 5750 thing about 15 years ago,my local tyre supplier had just aquired it and was chuffed to bits,and i was speaking to a local haulier with about 20 wagons who also got it ,He said it cost him about 10k,he told me that they even offered it to the owner driver at a price,i didnt bother .I think it was superceded by other BS numbers .then forgotten about when there was no more money to be made…
shep532:
Hi Tony,I had an appointment with a potential customer today. He has 12 drivers and wanted to put all 12 through the full 35 hours before the end of this year. I merrily went to the meeting thinking I had this in the bag.
10 minutes into my well prepared speech he threw a magazine across the desk and said “Have you read this?” I quickly scanned the pages all about some e-petition that was going to get the DCPC scrapped.
“You think I’m going to waste my time and money putting my drivers through training with you when the whole thing is going to get scrapped? Think again Pete. We won’t be arranging any training”
Within 5 minutes I was back in my car with my notebook shoved up me arse.
So - your e-petition did achieve something … I lost some good paying work and 12 drivers won’t be getting their DCPC for free
Thousands of drivers are loosing money as a result of this legislation as well !
FREE course ? there is no such thing.
Nothing is for FREE, to be able to offer a driver FREE CPC training, JAUPT training providers have the facility to claim those funds back from the Learning and Skills Council (LSC) that money comes from the tax payer. I have been reliably informed by a NVQ/CPC training provider (so I understand these figures to be correct), that training providers can claim back approx £1800-00 per person (So 12 drivers x £1800-00 per person = £21,600-00 for CPC training plus the NVQ qualification. Not a bad income to provide training for 12 drivers to obtain a NVQ certificate and CPC training). In order to be able to offer this FREE ? training. Training providers have to have drivers sign up for NVQ training in order to offer the CPC for FREE (otherwise training providers will charge drivers approx £350-00 for the CPC training without the NVQ) This explains the basics of the funding - asot.org.uk/nvq-funding.html
The fight against this legislation will continue, until drivers are treated fairly.
think you may have acted a bit rash just because you cant quote the tacho regs off by heart
let face it the tacho regs as discussed on here are so unneccessarily complicated when coupled with wtd. i do think it needs to be scrapped maybe yes some form of peridodic training needs to be done but not 35 hours on how to secure a load, the drivers day, healthy eating while living in a tin can etc etc etc, new drivers yes as it could be done right a good thing for them, experienced drivers maybe a half day tacho training.
jackslad:
This dcpc thing remindes me of the fuss about that BS 5750 thing about 15 years ago
BS 5750 became the international standard ISO 9000. In the UK, as it’s also a British Standard and European Norm, it’s BS EN ISO 9000.
The actual certificates are issued against BS EN ISO 9001.
jackslad:
This dcpc thing remindes me of the fuss about that BS 5750 thing about 15 years ago,my local tyre supplier had just aquired it and was chuffed to bits,and i was speaking to a local haulier with about 20 wagons who also got it ,He said it cost him about 10k,he told me that they even offered it to the owner driver at a price,i didnt bother .I think it was superceded by other BS numbers .then forgotten about when there was no more money to be made…
^^ +1
Tony4562:
Thousands of drivers are loosing money as a result of this legislation as well !FREE course ? there is no such thing.
Nothing is for FREE, to be able to offer a driver FREE CPC training, JAUPT training providers have the facility to claim those funds back from the Learning and Skills Council (LSC) that money comes from the tax payer. I have been reliably informed by a NVQ/CPC training provider (so I understand these figures to be correct), that training providers can claim back approx £1800-00 per person (So 12 drivers x £1800-00 per person = £21,600-00 for CPC training plus the NVQ qualification. Not a bad income to provide training for 12 drivers to obtain a NVQ certificate and CPC training). In order to be able to offer this FREE ? training. Training providers have to have drivers sign up for NVQ training in order to offer the CPC for FREE (otherwise training providers will charge drivers approx £350-00 for the CPC training without the NVQ) This explains the basics of the funding - asot.org.uk/nvq-funding.html
The fight against this legislation will continue, until drivers are treated fairly.
Tony - have you read the document you have linked to? it doesn’t say what you have said. It confirms funding DCPC from NVQ money is not allowed. The sums you have mentioned are for an NVQ course. This is a long course spread over a year with regular on the job assessments etc. they can’t stick 12 people in a classroom for NVQ.
The £1800 is to fund the NVQ. it is an extortinate amount of public money. The less scrupulous training providers then syphon some of that money off to cover their costs for providing a DCPC session - probably only 7 hours. This is effectively spending public funding on something it isn’t intended for. the reason they do this is beacause they struggle to sell NVQ - the offer of free DCPC is what attracts a company.
They probably won’t deliver the free DCPC until the end of the NVQ when they have secured all their funding - simply because if a driver drops out of the NVQ part way through - the trainer loses the funding.
Some training providers found they had funding withdrawn when it was proven what they were doing.
Also - as confirmed in the document you have linked to. Once a driver has achieved his NVQ he cannot gain funding again. The NVQ will take about 12 months and quite a bit of the drivers and companies time for regular assessments, record keeping etc
These ‘training providers’ have been getting £1800 per NVQ sold for many many years - it is not related or connected to DCPC.
I wouldn’t have thought most on here would want to get involved in an NVQ for Goods vehicle Driving … just doing the straight forward 7 hour DCPC is much easier.
I’ll give you a free DCPC session if that’s what you want. You gotta be nice to me though and I won’t make you go through a 12 month NVQ waste of time either
Having just spent the last hour watching Pink Floyd, it proves that the old ■■■■■ can teach the youngsters a thing or two
They could even teach the perverts how to get away with getting clean underwear
Arnold Layne and A Nice Pair 
shep532:
Tony4562:
Thousands of drivers are loosing money as a result of this legislation as well !FREE course ? there is no such thing.
Nothing is for FREE, to be able to offer a driver FREE CPC training, JAUPT training providers have the facility to claim those funds back from the Learning and Skills Council (LSC) that money comes from the tax payer. I have been reliably informed by a NVQ/CPC training provider (so I understand these figures to be correct), that training providers can claim back approx £1800-00 per person (So 12 drivers x £1800-00 per person = £21,600-00 for CPC training plus the NVQ qualification. Not a bad income to provide training for 12 drivers to obtain a NVQ certificate and CPC training). In order to be able to offer this FREE ? training. Training providers have to have drivers sign up for NVQ training in order to offer the CPC for FREE (otherwise training providers will charge drivers approx £350-00 for the CPC training without the NVQ) This explains the basics of the funding - asot.org.uk/nvq-funding.html
The fight against this legislation will continue, until drivers are treated fairly.
Tony - have you read the document you have linked to? it doesn’t say what you have said. It confirms funding DCPC from NVQ money is not allowed. The sums you have mentioned are for an NVQ course. This is a long course spread over a year with regular on the job assessments etc. they can’t stick 12 people in a classroom for NVQ.
The £1800 is to fund the NVQ. it is an extortinate amount of public money. The less scrupulous training providers then syphon some of that money off to cover their costs for providing a DCPC session - probably only 7 hours. This is effectively spending public funding on something it isn’t intended for. the reason they do this is beacause they struggle to sell NVQ - the offer of free DCPC is what attracts a company.
They probably won’t deliver the free DCPC until the end of the NVQ when they have secured all their funding - simply because if a driver drops out of the NVQ part way through - the trainer loses the funding.
Some training providers found they had funding withdrawn when it was proven what they were doing.
Also - as confirmed in the document you have linked to. Once a driver has achieved his NVQ he cannot gain funding again. The NVQ will take about 12 months and quite a bit of the drivers and companies time for regular assessments, record keeping etc
These ‘training providers’ have been getting £1800 per NVQ sold for many many years - it is not related or connected to DCPC.
I wouldn’t have thought most on here would want to get involved in an NVQ for Goods vehicle Driving … just doing the straight forward 7 hour DCPC is much easier.
I’ll give you a free DCPC session if that’s what you want. You gotta be nice to me though and I won’t make you go through a 12 month NVQ waste of time either
Yes I have read the document and it does state :-
Some training providers are advertising courses that are funded. How can this be the case if Periodic Training does not qualify for funding?
Operators should be wary of Periodic Training courses that are advertised as being fully funded. Periodic Training is excluded from public funding.
Then it states :-
Providers may be delivering Periodic Training within a broader NVQ programme. In this instance, the funding is attached to the achievement of the NVQ. Operators and drivers will need to commit to the larger NVQ programme in order to access the funding.
Then it states :-
The NVQ is a broad qualification. There are many different ways in which Periodic Training courses could be combined with the NVQ training. This means that the content and length of approved Periodic Training courses that are being delivered under the NVQ umbrella can vary quite dramatically. Operators are advised to ask GoSkills/CPT July 2008 the provider to clarify how many hours of approved Periodic Training are being delivered via the NVQ programme and to seek written confirmation that the training has been approved by the JAUPT.
Some training providers are still able to access further funding and are offering periodic training, even after a driver completes Level 2 of the NVQ qualification. Put the driver thru Level 3 NVQ qualification.
Anyway I think its time now for us to stop the squabbling, be realistic, and to achieve something constructive regarding changing this legislation. Decent training providers should be working, with drivers, to achieve a workable and sensible request for changes to this legislation, that the government would have to listen to.
To much money in its infrastructure has been invested for it to be abolished/scrapped (although thats what I would have liked) So we have to be realistic and propose a fairer system regarding this legislation together.
P.S. I will only accept your offer for FREE training if you can offer the same to every other driver in the UK, that would be impossible, but thank you for the offer, but I decline.