Abolish/Scrap the CPC Legislation

UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUMS THE UK PROFESSIONAL DRIVERS FORUM (INTERACTIVE)
61

damoq:

Own Account Driver:

Pansie Division:

damoq:

dessy:

damoq:
My take on the DCPC is that it could be better, but its a good idea. For example, why can we sit the same course 5 times and still complete our required amount of training. It should be a different course every session IMO. But I think that drivers/companies who value the haulage industry will do their 35 hours of training before 2014, and the others who don’t value it and think its a complete waste of time probably won’t do it. Come 2014 when all training has to be completed I reckon there could be a shortage of qualified drivers. Then those of us who have completed our training will be sought after and may be able to demand better wages and conditions. Thats just my take on it and I hope I’m right about the wages thing!!! :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:
So for that reason, I won’t be signing it. Sorry.

We already have a so called driver shortage mate! Don’t see a rise in wages anywhere! Don’t fool yourself thinking what the wages will increase because they won’t and to top that your gonna have to keep doing your 35 hours with whatever they want to charge you and your gonna have to ■■■■ it up!! :laughing:

Perhaps, but with alot of drivers threatening not to complete their DCPC, they will be unable to drive. End of story. Thas alot of trucks with no drivers from Sept 2014. I reckon its our best chance yet!

The people who are threatening not to do the cpc are blowing smoke up their own arses, 9 times out of 10 they won’t have any other way to make a wage so they are going to have to do it to keep living.

It’s not 100% yet as it does need changing but we all have to do it so might as well crack on and get the hours in. Whining isn’t going to do anything.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Depends if transport managers turn a blind eye to a drivers who haven’t.

I don’t know if insurers will withdraw cover on drivers who haven’t which will be the deciding factor.

Not sure, but if all your courses have to be uploaded to the DVLA, surely if you dont do your training your licence will be revoked. This would mean driving without a proper, which in turn means no insurance.

This is what I did think but, as far as I know, licence holders who are exempt as driving isn’t their main activity don’t have to make any special application to DVLA and will still have a valid licence for insurers point of view.

62

ibson:
If you get it paid for you who gives a [zb] if it’s the same course over and over! It’s making the job more of a profession, improving standards and you’re getting paid for it! FFS people.

If you have to pay for it your self then don’t sit the same one over and over, do something worth while, I’m sure if you pay attention you will learn something and all the while it’s improving the driving standards.

And if you still want it abolished and aren’t willing to co-operate then get the [zb] out of the industry.

I have seen some retarded posts on here, I’m a driver and a transport manager and I can see the benefits for drivers, although courses need improving, any training provider can get a course approved and over time they will get better.

I really hope this dcpc weans out the [zb] idiots out of the industry!

how does disagreeing with it make you retarded? what positives does it bring? yes drivers hours is something all drivers should be kept up to date with but some or most of the other options are retarded. and why roll out something that as you admit isn’ t great?
the courses should be useful now not a case of ‘oh well we will make x amount of millions for the next few years until we get it right’ and any decent company should provide training for drivers on legislation as a matter of professionalism not because they have been forced to :open_mouth:
if you cant fail the sodding module what is the point all your going to have is the same drivers who didnt know x,y,z who sit for 7 hours a year and get the dcpc ‘qualification’ the whole thing is a joke!

63

Heres my view for what its worth.
Personally Im against it as an owner driver as it is more expense I could do without. Ive owned trucks since i was 19 (now 46) and still have a clean licence, no operating infringements for over 15 years or any other motoring convictions. As for knowing the law how can I know it all when the enforcement officers can’t even agree on it. 2 weeks ago I got stopped on the M20 and was told I should leave a disc in at weekends. 1 disc for a 48 hour period ! I use 2 discs a day, one to record my working day and one to record my break and have never had a problem with this here or abroad. I do this so I don’t have to get up to change the disc after 24 hrs but kent polices commercial vehicle expert tells me I can let the disc run over 24hrs, but try explaining it to vosa or a french control. He also told me i was infringing the law by having attestations for the weekend breaks at home.
There are many drivers who since passing their tests have only driven for supermarkets etc so will have very limited experience of truck driving in general but with time they will get that experience the way we did, by doing it. But as has been said I believe its here to stay so hopefuly I will have paid the bank off enough before it comes in force to call it a day.

64

Firstly it was nice to read that a few drivers have seen the benefit of DCPC training.

In my experience when I get to my class first thing their is normally a gobby one who has been doing it longer than I have had a hole in my backside and is happy to tell all what a waste of time the training is.

As the course goes on 9/10 times gobby is the one struggling to understand or gets the questions wrong. It is all bravado and I honestly think for some it is a fear of the classroom that is the issue.

It is a shame the op has started this pettition but I can not see it getting anywhere. What I do think is people like him will make it worse as the more drivers moan about lack of testing the more chance they will introduce it. like Shep said this will be excellent for me but the drivers who struggle to read and write will be spending more like 45hrs in the classroom.

65

shep532:

wildfire:
i have signed it because as the cpc stands at the moment its pretty worthless, having no pass or fail and being able to do the same coarse 5 times just is a waste of time, it needs to be totally re-thought :unamused: :unamused: :unamused: :unamused: :unamused: :unamused:

Having a pass or fail would be the worse thing you could do to some drivers. Example was yesterday - 8 drivers in a DCPC session. At lunch I gave them a written test - multi choice. 3 of them would have failed had it been a real test. They knew the answrs - just didn’t read the question. Exams and tests are also about knowing how to read the questions and understanding how certain techniques for exam passing. Most of these lads haven’t been in a classroom for many years.

As soon as we wnet through the answrs they realised what they had done wrong. A simple example. UTC time - in summnertime is -1 hour from local time - they missed the question said ‘in summer time’.

So a simple test and 3 ‘failed’ Had this been real they would now be off work until a resit could be arranged. As it was I know they knew the answers, just the fear of a test meant they weren’t thinking straight and almost panicked.

What about those with learning difficulties, reading/writing issues etc etc. A pass fail would just be a huge problem. i think they got the attendance only bit right.

As for doing the same course 5 times … why would you book the same course 5 times? Although I have met some that needed to do this as they had trouble learning.

Having a pass or fail would be a good thing.
To have any credibility it needs to be able to be failed. You can’t drive if you fail your medical, why should the dcpc be any different. You are either fit (or competent ) to drive or you are not. “Simples” I have signed as the dcpc is a waste of time.

66

turbot:
the dcpc is a waste of time.

Correct and the only people that think its worthwhile are the instructors, who are making a mint, and drivers who get it all paid for along with a day off on full pay.

67

Let’s simplify the rules then.

In every 24 hours you must take 11 hours unbroken rest, you may only drive for 9 hours per day which must be split with a 45 minute break.

Every weekend you must have at least 45 hours unbroken rest.

You must not drive more than 56 hours in any one week. No body would want to drive this much every week, so if we say a maximum of 90 hours per fortnight, it makes the job fair on the other lads.

There are a couple of exceptions if it helps operational procedure. The driver may extend his driving hours a couple of times a week, and he can have a two or three shorter rest periods as long as it is more than 9 hours.

Occasionally, the driver may need to take a short weekend rest, this is fine as long as he pays back what he borrowed within the next month.

I dont think that is beyond most of us! :stuck_out_tongue:

68

Long distance clara:
‘…As the course goes on 9/10 times gobby is the one struggling to understand or gets the questions wrong…’

Surely the …‘gobby one…’ 'gets the answers wrong :question: Unless it’s the questioner not posing his patronising ‘course material’ (which is too often dross or hiccupped from somewhere obscure that’s been hitherto and disgracefully ‘overlooked’ by our UK authorities) clearly enough :exclamation:

Long distance clara:
‘…Firstly it was nice to read that a few drivers have seen the benefit of DCPC training…’

I note that advocate’s of the DCPC often appear against a democratic discussion yet are unable to identify how it wholly or specifically suits UK transport or safety needs. We’re not all sheep, mates, so please credit the rest of us with having an objective approach rather than blindly absorbing the foreign intrusion that this ill considered penalty is foisting upon all of us (at our expense as tax-payers) :exclamation:

Long distance clara:
‘…What I do think is people like him will make it worse as the more drivers moan about lack of testing the more chance they will introduce it…’

Then you’ve begun to appreciate the nasty, bullying, undemocratic & vindictive characteristic within the EU federation in order to force their agenda upon formerly successful countries such as ours :neutral_face:

69

i also get sick of the ‘drivers who struggle to read and write’ pile of crap drivers nowadays have more paper work to fill in than ever before. and if you want to improve standards then make part of the options for the dcpc a literacy course if there are that many out there! the dcpc is never going to improve the working conditions of drivers unless it is possible to fail or you have to apply yourself to pass it. i agree that for new drivers it is a good thing as it will stop simple accidents and infringements, but experienced drivers should if they want to be classed as professional make it their own duty to know the basics at the very least :smiley: .

70

ive signed the petition. all i want to do is drive my truck ,do the delivery and go home,all this dcpc crap gets on my ■■■■ so anything that helps to get it abolished im all for it

71

signed :smiley:

72

I found this little snippet on an international DQC question

The German Government are giving funding to the employers to pay the trainers.

73

Wheel Nut:
I found this little snippet on an international DQC question

The German Government are giving funding to the employers to pay the trainers.

Problem is, the german government has money to give, we don’t. Even if we did, I can’t see any of our lords and masters handing out free cash to help a common working man. If the training companies are run by the Brother in law, or pal from the same lodge as an MP, then possibly they might fund the training, but not for you or me.
as you know Malc, i agree with what you say about the DCPC, and it is so worthless. Simplify drivers hours, scrap the RTD, no more confused drivers, no need for a DCPC. What else is there to be taught in a classroom?
I kick tyres, some may think i am crazy, but there is a certain feel and sound to a correctly inflated trailer tyre that can’t be taught in a classroom. Same as I “feel” the truck, the way is performs, the way it rolls and moves, and I can tell how stable and heavy my load is from this, so i adjust my driving accordingly, can you teach that to someone? No, it comes from experience.

74

I am in favour but to be credible it must evolve. Phase 1, as is with the exception that you must do 5 different modules. Phase 2 attendance + test , candidates may be coached to pass but this must not take the form of blatantly giving answers. Phase 3 test only if you are confident or test + refresher training if you are less able. This is how it works for Gas Operatives. Because I work hands on at a high level I only need to undertake a quick refresher and then do the exam. Someone who only does a small amount of work or works in a limited area will do more training to get up to speed with the areas they do not come into regular contact with.

Truck and Coach drivers are equal to plumbers, most went into the trade because they are practical not academic. With a good trainer the ones that fail are the ones who want to do things their way instead of the way they are taught, not because they can’t complete a test.

It’s not unreasonable to expect a reasonable literacy standard, even the most basic pictograms warnings will have qualifying text, and if the purpose of the sign is to protect me is it unreasonable of me to expect you to be able to read it.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

75

To clarify the situation regarding “Wheel Nut” Post and the concerns it will go straight in the bin. I have contacted HM Government by email and received a reply. (Both the sent message and reply are listed below the copy of “Wheel Nut” Post.) Hopefully this clarifies the situation. 16/05/2013 the e-petition closes. Approx 280 Signatures required per day.

Wheel Nut:
The Government will probably throw this straight in the bin

Responsible department: Office of the Leader of the House of Commons

European Legislation - EU Directive 2003/59 is soon to be enforced in September 2014, IN THE UK which may have a severe impact on employable drivers. (Those not trained, will have their licences revoked). Not True. Licences will not be revoked. They are valid until the expiry date regardless of having a DQC

Thousands of Training providers have seen this legislation as a profitable venture, receiving approx £1800-00 per person for NVQ/CPC training from government funds JAUNT.

Drivers may also be required to pay themselves ! This is Not Fair on Drivers, the Industry, or the Tax Payer.

A drivers competence is assessed when a driver passes his/her driving test.There is no driving in the CPC. It is classroom based. The DSA Driving Test doesn’t assess anything else but driving

This is the email I sent

It is requested that the CPC Legislation be Abolished/Scrapped, before September 2014.
Response required: YES

I have recently requested the above listed e-petition which has been approved. However I have been informed that if it is not correctly worded or there is a spelling error ie “JAUNT” should be “JAUPT” which is a public body to what this e-petition relates. The e-petition will be dismissed (Below are errors highlighted, that I have been informed will prevent this e-petition from being valid) even if it reaches 100,000 signatures. So my question is does a e-petition have to be worded in such a manner that it has to be perfect in its submission in everyway for it to be a valid e-petion.

Responsible department: Office of the Leader of the House of Commons

European Legislation - EU Directive 2003/59 is soon to be enforced in September 2014, IN THE UK which may have a severe impact on employable drivers. (Those not trained, will have their licences revoked). Not True. Licences will not be revoked. They are valid until the expiry date regardless of having a DQC

Thousands of Training providers have seen this legislation as a profitable venture, receiving approx £1800-00 per person for NVQ/CPC training from government funds JAUNT.

Drivers may also be required to pay themselves ! This is Not Fair on Drivers, the Industry, or the Tax Payer.

A drivers competence is assessed when a driver passes his/her driving test.There is no driving in the CPC. It is classroom based. The DSA Driving Test doesn’t assess anything else but driving

Thank you.

Tony

The email reply from HM Government was

Dear Mr Thompson,

Thank you for your message.

I can assure you that any spelling errors or other minor issues will not make a petition invalid. Indeed, many of the e-petitions that have passed 100 000 signatures and have been debated have continued spelling errors which have in no way affected the petition.

Yours sincerely

Ben Sneddon
Assistant Private Secretary (Parliamentary Reform) to the Leader of the House of Commons

76

robinhood_1984:

Conor:
Won’t get my vote. One only has to look at the countless number of incorrect posts in this very forum about basic tacho regs by people who have been driving for years to see that the DCPC is more than needed.

Its got my vote. The sheer amount of people I now talk to who are misinformed about tacho rules because they’re quoting their DCPC ‘teacher’ and his or her errors is beyond a joke.

One driver I personally know was told by his ‘teacher’ that the rumour about VOSA and the whole “£30 fine for each turn of the trailer landing leg handle” was true and the law…

Another driver was told by his ‘teacher’ that the 3+9hr split shift was illegal and abolished years ago and that wer’e now on a rolling 24 hour clock so if you take a reduced 9hr break, you’ll have to stop half way through the next day as you’ll have exceeded 9/10 hours drive in a rolling 24 hour window. His ‘teacher’ didn’t know that driving times are RESET after each rest period, wether 9 or 11. Its not drivers who need to be taught how to ■■■■ on eggs, its the idiots who are forcing this farce on to us.

Who is making sure that the DCPC teachers actually know more than your average confused driver?!?! From what I’ve seen so far it just seems like its the blind leading the blind.

A very good point.

There is no real criteria the instructor needs adhere to!

To many who think they now all about it

77

Not signing.

I love CPC classes. I am doing my ADR + tanks this week and I’m having a good time. Great lunch served at 12 every day, and I’m home by 17:00. It’s all paid for by the boss and I get full pay for it.

Feels like I’m on holiday!

78

Tony. My “going straight in the bin” message was for this forum and for me. I simply would not sign a petition that had crucial errors.

I also believe the horse already bolted in 2007 when the consultation document was sent out to the following bodies. Someone has agreed to it. The full list of questions and answers from the consultants replies are also available!

A number of City and County Councils
A number of Police Forces
A number of Fire Services
Aberdeen & District Driving Schools
Assoc.
Aberdeenshire Council
ABL (Holding) Ltd
ACE
Active Risk Management
ADI Federation
ADI Training Services
Admiral Insurance
Admiral Training Ltd
Adventure Activities Industry Advisory
Committee
AEA Technology PLC
Aeon Risk Services
AGBIS
All Party Parliamentary Group
Allerton Road Safety Education Ltd
Allianz Cornhill plc
Allied Driver Training Centre
Ambulance Services Association
Anglesey County Council
Anglia Industrial Training Ltd
Angus Council
A-Plant
Argyll and Bute Council
Arriva London South Ltd
Arriva Southern Counties
ASDA Stores Ltd
Association of British Drivers
Association of British Insurers
Association of Chief Police Officers
Association of Chief Police Officers Scotland
Association of Colleges
Association of Driving Instructors of West London
Association of Heads of Outdoor
Education Centres
British Chamber of Commerce
British Epilepsy Association
British Fire Service Association
British Horse Society
British Independent Motor Trade Association
British Industrial Truck Association
British School of Motoring Ltd
British Telecom
British Transport Police
British Vehicle Rental and Leasing Association
Business Link Nottinghamshire
Cabinet Office
Centre for Economic and Social Inclusion
Chartered Institute of Logistics and Transport (UK)
Chartered Institute of Transport
Cheshire County Council
Chief and Assistant Chief Fire Officers Association
Child Accident Prevention Trust
City and Guilds Institute
Civil Service Motoring Association
Coach Operators Federation
Commercial Motor
Commission for Racial Equality (England,
Scotland and Wales)
Community Transport Association
Countryside Agency
Confederation of British Industry
(including Scotland and Wales)
Confederation of Passenger Transport
Consortium of LEAs Provision of Science Services
Convention of Scottish Local Authorities
Conwy County Council
Co-operative Food and General
Distribution Ltd
Cranfield University
Daimler Chrysler UK Ltd
Association of Industrial Road Safety Officers
Association of London Government
Association of Magisterial Officers
Association of Professional Driving Instructors (S.W.)
Association of Road Transport Lawyers
Association of Scottish Police Superintendents
Association of South Eastern Driving Instructors
Association of Transport Co-ordinating Officers
Association of United Driving Instructors
ATC
ATL
Auto-Cycle Union
Automobile Association
Automotive Distribution Federation
AVRO Ltd
AXA Insurance UK Plc
Barnsley Met BC
Blackpool Transport
Boots Company PLC
BP Amoco PLC
Brake
British Association of Removers
Ferguson’s Transport
First Manchester
First Bristol Bus
Foden Trucks
Ford Motor Co Ltd
Forum of Private Business
Forum of Private Business in Scotland
Freight Transport Association
Get Trucking
GoSkills
Government of Gibraltar
Health and Safety Executive
Heavy Transport Association
Historic Commercial Vehicle Society
Home Office
House of Commons Library
IAM Motoring Trust
Institute of Directors
Institute of Road Safety Officers
Isle of Man Government
Iveco Ford Truck Ltd
Ifor Williams Trailers Ltd
Dairy Industry Federation
Defence Logistics Organisation
Defence School of Transport
Department for Constitutional Affairs
Dept of Environment, Food and Rural Affairs
Dept of Environment Northern Ireland
Dept of Health
Department of Health
Dept of Trade and Industry
Dept of Transport — Mobility and Inclusion Unit
Road safety and Vehicle Standards Division
Despatch Association
DfES Pupil Safety & School Security
Disabled Driver s Association
Disabled Persons Transport Advisory
Committee
Driving Instructors Association
Driver Vehicle and Licensing Agency
Driver and Vehicle Testing Agency
Eddie Stobart Ltd
Environmental Transport Association
EXEL
Farmers Union of England
Farmers Union of Scotland
Farmers Union of Wales
Federation of Public Passenger
Transport Employers
Federation of Small Businesses
Office of the Deputy Prime Minister
Office of the Traffic Commissioner
Oxford Cambridge and RSA Examinations
Office of the Deputy Prime Minister
Office of the Traffic Commissioner
Oxford Cambridge and RSA Examinations Parliamentary Advisory Council on Transport Safety
P&O Ferrymasters Ltd
PCM LGV Driver Training
Police Federation of England and Wales
Public and Commercial Services Union
Public Carriage Office
Qualifications and Curriculum Authority
Qualifications, Curriculum and Assessment
RAC (motoring services)
J Coates (HGV Services Ltd)
Joint Committee on Mobility for the Disabled
Justice Clerks Society
Judith Hearn Agency Ltd
LDV Ltd
Learn and Live
Lex Vehicle Leasing
Leyland Trucks Ltd
LGV Ltd
Local Authority Road Safety Officers Association
Local Government Association
Logistical Support Services
London United Busways Ltd
Lothian Buses Plc
Magistrates’ Association
MAN ERF Ltd
MAN ERF UK Ltd
Mercedes Benz UK Ltd
Mersey Travel
Metropolitan Police
Military Vehicle Trust
Minimise Your Risk
Ministry Of Defence
Mobility Advice and Vehicle Information Services
Motability
Motor Schools Association of GB Ltd
National Assembly of Wales
National Association of Citizens Advice Bureaux
National Association of Local Councils
National Council on Inland Transport
National Council on Voluntary Organisations
National Express Group PLC
National Farmers Union
National Federation of Self Employed & Small Businesses
National Federation of Bus Users
National Freight Consortium PLC
National Farmers Union (Scotland)
National Private Hire Association
National Union of Rail ,Maritime and
Transport Workers
National Union of Road Transport
Operators National
National Union of Teachers
RAC Motoring Services
RAC Foundation
Authority for Wales
Recruitment and Employment
Confederation
Red Rose Training (BOLTON) Ltd
Renault Business Links
Renault Trucks UK Ltd
Ritchie’s Training Centre
Road Haulage Association
Road Operators Safety Council
Roadpeace
Royal Mail Southeast
RTITB Ltd
Royal Association for Disability and
Rehabilitation
Scania Great Britain Ltd
Scottish Qualifications Authority
Scottish Executive
Skills for Logistics
Small Business Service
Social Exclusion Unit
Stagecoach
States of Jersey Driver and Vehicle
Standards
Steel Horse Transport Services
Steve Robertson Transport
TNT UK Ltd
Tangerine Training Solutions
Trades Union Congress
Transport and General Workers Union
Unison
Volvo Truck and Bus
VOSA
VT plc (Vosper Thorneycroft)
Wallace School of Transport
Welsh Assembly
Wincanton
Wm Morrison Plc
Women’s National Commission
Yellow Buses
Zurich Insurance
958 Trainers on the DSA Voluntary
Register of LGV Trainers
266 Delegated Examiners
150 Road Safety Officers
87 Government Departments and Agencies
39 Theory Test Translators

79

Not surprising the voice of owner drivers and small operators (restricted&standard) was going to get drowned out with that stupid great list.

I was half expecting to find Jedward under the Js.

Brake?? they might as well have started a thread on Mumsnet as well.

80

Own Account Driver:
Not surprising the voice of owner drivers and small operators (restricted&standard) was going to get drowned out with that stupid great list.

I was half expecting to find Jedward under the Js.

Brake?? they might as well have started a thread on Mumsnet as well.

How very true.