A religion question for Robroy,but will he give me a straigh

[zac_a]

Sploom:
Basically,do you think its possible to understand fully how the brain works.Only in theory.
I dont think its possible.

Define “fully”? And define on what time scale?
You may as well ask “What is the meaning of Life, the Universe and Everything?” It’s definitely not 42
This is the downside of always needing “certainty”, there are no “pat” answers that can be 100% accurate, there are faaaaaaaaaarrrrrr too many things to consider to give a neat little answer

In my lifetime we’ve come a long way, and we have a pretty decent understanding of how the brain works, so on one hand I will say: “Yes”

However, the search for newer depths is ongoing, and will continue to be ongoing for as long as their are humans investigating science, there will always be new avenues of knowledge to investigate, even if understanding that new avenue doesn’t really appear to impact significantly on the overall picture.

The voyage for knowledge is without end, so the “understanding” will never be “full” by a scientist’s definition, Their answer will not be a straight “No”, it will be the standard response of “more research is needed”.

[zac_a]

Let me try to give you an idea of how much work is needed to “fully” understand that thing we call our “brain”, even trying to answering your question is going to truly boggle your mind, but here goes anyway:

Our body is made up of many different cell types, current estimates are around 200 different types. A discovery of something in one cell type will probably be investigated in all cell types

Each cell contains lipids, nucleic acids (the various DNAs and RNAs) and proteins - let’s just focus on proteins for now.

A “typical” cell (if there is such a thing) is calculated to contain the genetic material (genes) for about 200 different proteins, but each one of these genes could produce as many as 100 different actual functioning proteins, so potentially 20,000 proteins. Too much I know, lets try to keep it simple.

Focussing just on what we know about the brain: There are 13 distinct areas of our brain, each with a different composition, scientists have determined that there are 15,331 genes in our brain tissues which code for protein manufacture, even if each of those 15,331 proteins did not exist in 100 different variations of each protein, we’ve got enough to go on there.

Brains contain basically neurones (brain cells) and non-neurone cells (mostly glia, the support network for the neurones). Lets make it easy and just focus on the calculated 86 billion neurones in the brain (there about as many non-neuronal cells)

Here comes the maths…
the 86 billion neurones (8,600,000,000) can each connect with every other neurone, giving potentially (lets round it up for ease of maths) about 100 trillion neuronal connections at the bare minimum (100,000,000,000,000)

Now change just one of those proteins into one of it’s potential 100 variants, that’s 100 trillion connections that might be changed so would need to be investigated again - just for that one neurone with one changed protein connecting 100 trillion times to every other neurone

Now repeat ad infinitum for every protein variant for every neurone with every connection to every other neurone

Then… factor in single variant neurone + non-variant neurone and do it all again, and so on and so on

Quantum computing will allow massive advances in calculations such as this, but that is still something being developed. When I was at Uni in the early 1990’s, we were told “there are more potential connections in the human brain than there are particles in the known Universe”, so that is the level of knowledge we would need to fully understand the human brain.

[star_down_under]

Sploom:
Wrong again,Robroy.A true Christian doesnt kill or fight.
Matthew 5:38-48

Eye for Eye
38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’[a] 39 But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. 40 And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. 41 If anyone forces

Well surprise, surprise, that makes it easy for the head kahuna to relieve the gullible of their hard earned and control the plebs.
The heads of all these tax exempt enterprises all live the life of Riley, with no shortage of funds. They’re like snake oil salesmen, only the product differs.

[rog]

We all know that getting pregnant needs input from a male and a female so perhaps someone can explain in scientific terms how an immaculate conception is possible

[robroy]

Sploom:
Wrong again,Robroy.A true Christian doesnt kill or fight.
Matthew 5:38-48

Eye for Eye
38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’[a] 39 But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. 40 And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. 41 If anyone forces

Nah it’s more like 'Absolutely right Robroy ’
I’m talking REAL life stuff, not written down bullcrap,nonsense and ■■■■■■■■.

[sploom]

Zac_A.
I have to get back to you once I read all that.

[sploom]

ROG:
We all know that getting pregnant needs input from a male and a female so perhaps someone can explain in scientific terms how an immaculate conception is possible

It can’t be explained in scientific terms.God isnt subject to science.If He was,He wouldn’t be God.
He would just be a mere mortal like the rest of us.

[sploom]

Star down under.:

Sploom:
Wrong again,Robroy.A true Christian doesnt kill or fight.
Matthew 5:38-48

Eye for Eye
38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’[a] 39 But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also. 40 And if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, hand over your coat as well. 41 If anyone forces

Well surprise, surprise, that makes it easy for the head kahuna to relieve the gullible of their hard earned and control the plebs.
The heads of all these tax exempt enterprises all live the life of Riley, with no shortage of funds. They’re like snake oil salesmen, only the product differs.

Yes,a lot of what you say is true.But there will be a day of reckoning for those who have abused their power

[sploom]

Robroy.Yes,it is the real world but your photo implies that those of us following true Christianty are involved in violence,so totally untrue

[whisperingsmith]

[the_maoster]

I think that the elders have more to worry about than some errant truck drivers….

[sploom]

Zac_A
I looked at the information you wrote and the numbers are mind boggling indeed ,if that’s how many neurones we have in our brains,did you say 86 billion?
But here’s the thing,if you keep doubling a given number many times,it doesnt take long to reach these astronomical figures.So ,the first computer I had was the commodore 64.How many times do you need to double the processing power of that to reach the computers we use today.Maybe,what,30 times or 50?
I dont know,Im just guessing,but my question is,no matter where you are on the cycle,at what point does the computer make the jump from autonomy to having a mind of it’s own? It never happens

[sploom]

So,if you have two bananas,and you keep doubling them,you only have to double them 38 times before you have 38 billion bananas.That’s all it is.OK,you have 38 billion bananas .It’s impressive.But they wont be any more intelligent than the first two bananas you started off with.
Where do you make the jump into higher level Intelligence?

[sploom]

Zac_A.
I read all what wrote about the brain,the neurone connections and so on.I undetstood half of it but without knowing the technical words.But I think you said we are talking 1*10^17 connections which sounds good but again,from my calculations,you only have to multiply 2 by 2 50 odd times to get to these figures.If we have a system of say ,4 neurones,supposing it was created in a lab,that “brain” would be no more than a calculator,perhaps,it would have no knowledge or conscience.So if you keep doubling the neurones,you get something twice or some power more until you get a brain.Each step can only double the processing power of the previous step.I still cant see how you can make the jump from a calculator to a brain that has a concsience and feelings and is aware of itself.It is not enough to just double,or multiply by another number from the previous step because all this does is give you a bigger version of what came before

[zac_a]

Sploom:
Yes,a lot of what you say is true.But there will be a day of reckoning for those who have abused their power

Only in Fairy Tale land; in the real world mass murderers often live out their lives quite normally without any retribution, eg Pohl Pot, killed millions, died under house arrest

[winseer]

Looks like some of you are attempting to answer my earlier question “What happens to the charge upon death” etc.

Thing is, WE don’t know - do we?
It is another great mystery to be solved.

“Authority” - Christians are expected to live under authority rule, rather than “Rebel” against it.

The reason that Christ was a “disappointment” to Jews - was that he represented no kind of military leader figure, set to head a rebellion designed to bring down the Roman Empire.
As such, “Messiah” - was a bit of a misnomer.

Christians are expected to “live peacefully” under Authoritarian Rule then.

ANYONE claiming to be “Of Peace” - should expect to behave the same in whatever other faith they might have as well.

Atheists are quick to sit in judgement of all those constantly rising up to some kind of Rebellion enough as it is, after all…

[cooper1203]

Zac_A:

Sploom:
Yes,a lot of what you say is true.But there will be a day of reckoning for those who have abused their power

Only in Fairy Tale land; in the real world mass murderers often live out their lives quite normally without any retribution, eg Pohl Pot, killed millions, died under house arrest

Yet the only survivor of s21 and the fields feels he was adequately punished

[zac_a]

Sploom:
But here’s the thing,if you keep doubling a given number many times,it doesnt take long to reach these astronomical figures.So ,the first computer I had was the commodore 64.How many times do you need to double the processing power of that to reach the computers we use today.Maybe,what,30 times or 50?
I dont know,Im just guessing,but my question is,no matter where you are on the cycle,at what point does the computer make the jump from autonomy to having a mind of it’s own? It never happens

So just because you personally can’t imagine that consciousness might simply be a product of ever increasing complexity, you believe it cannot be true, therefore your notion of a Sky Pixie must be true?

Personal incredulity is no basis for any system of thought, it is one of many “logical fallacies” beloved of the insufficiently educated.
logicalfallacies.org/

[winseer]

That’s like saying "If you’re not a microbiologist - you are not qualified enough to be an Atheist since you have yet to prove that God doesn’t exist, even within your own “Science Belief System”.

Oh the Hubris!

[zac_a]

Sploom:
So,if you have two bananas,and you keep doubling them,you only have to double them 38 times before you have 38 billion bananas.That’s all it is.OK,you have 38 billion bananas .It’s impressive.But they wont be any more intelligent than the first two bananas you started off with.
Where do you make the jump into higher level Intelligence?

Bananas… How apt

I know you’re anti-science to the core, but take it from me that our neurones are a tad more complex than your bananas (pun intended) which you have failed to appreciate do not make connections with each other.

And a neurone is alive and active, both molecularly and physiologically, whereas your bananas (whoops I did it again) are not.

A shop-bought banana is basically a foodstore for a seed - which it doesn’t even contain, due to selective breeding. You may as well compare your bananas (■■■■! I just can’t stop ) to a bag of sugar.

The bananas aren’t “alive” any more than a bag of nuts would be (no, I’m not going to go down that route).

If you were genuinely interested in becoming more rational and less superstitious, BBC Bitesize has introductory lessons (aimed at 11-16 year olds) on many scientific topics, including neurobiology.
bbc.co.uk/bitesize/topics/zkjkbdm