This is the very issue faced by All scientists.They cant search for evidence for human conscience because they dont what the evidence would look like if they saw it,because it is an impossibility to explain this using conventional means.I know they attempted to try and explain it using quantam mechanics and all that but it doesnt work.The human mind,soul is a miracle and needs something that goes above science to create it
Non-Believer Scientists - can’t even explain where the electrical charge in the human body goes after death…
How is a Non-Scientist AND Non Believer (i.e. “Most People”) ever going to understand therefore - that very thing that makes good losers of us all?
Sploom:
This is the very issue faced by All scientists.They cant search for evidence for human conscience because they dont what the evidence would look like if they saw it,because it is an impossibility to explain this using conventional means.I know they attempted to try and explain it using quantam mechanics and all that but it doesnt work.The human mind,soul is a miracle and needs something that goes above science to create it
You (sensibly) admit to a lack of knowledge about science, yet you still continue to knock it based on this self-confessed lack of knowledge, coupled with your belief in Fairy Tales: You have no idea how irrational that appears, to say nothing of your comment which suggests you pretend to understand Quantum Mechanics 
I bet you’ve never looked at the link I sent you previously, regarding Anil Seth, who is a top scientist in the field of research into human consciousness
anilseth.com/
The human mind is complex, quite arguably the most complex object in the known universe; it is not one of your fictitious “miracles”, if for no other reason than your fictitious “miracles” must by definition be rare, yet there are approximately 8,100,000,000 human minds currently in existence.
A “soul” is just another product of your Fairy Tales.
Zac_A:
You have no idea how irrational that appears, to say nothing of your comment which suggests you pretend to understand Quantum Mechanics
Nice.
For those who may know even less of this subject than others of us, Prof Brian Cox and Prof Richard Feynman:
youtu.be/fcfQkxwz4Oo?si=1KQC0H1LYyKg1I11
youtu.be/w3ZRLllWgHI?si=TLdUroXNarlRUOW6
An explanation of it, but to understand it ?
After all we can use i (sq root of -1) to get real world results, but it still remains an imaginary number.
I think it’s safe to say that no one on TN is remotely capable of understanding Quantum Mechanics, but no need to take my word for it, here’s a selection of quotes on the subject from a university physics course:
If you are not completely confused by quantum mechanics, you do not understand it. John Wheeler.
If [quantum theory] is correct, it signifies the end of physics as a science. Albert Einstein.
I do not like [quantum mechanics], and I am sorry I ever had anything to do with it. Erwin Schrödinger.
Quantum mechanics makes absolutely no sense. Prof Sir Roger Penrose.
And, as already supplied by Franglais: It is safe to say that nobody understands quantum mechanics. Richard Feynman.
But for any of the religio-triumverate who want to pretend they do…
physicscourses.colorado.edu/phy … uotes.html
Sure,I will look at the link.At the end of the day,you have cause and effect,in which case ,without a soul,we are all robots,every thing in the past and future is pre determined and inevitable,or,OK,quantam mechanics or some other theory maybe can produce random events,but these are the only two systems that can exist in your beliefs.Emotions or blame,you cant blame a criminal for commiting a crime,for example because you dont allow him any freedom of will.He is completly autonomous.You cant get away from these two things,its cause and effect or it is random,how can there be a 3rd way.Anyway,I will have a look at the link
Sploom:
Sure,I will look at the link.At the end of the day,you have cause and effect,in which case ,without a soul,we are all robots,every thing in the past and future is pre determined and inevitable,or,OK,quantam mechanics or some other theory maybe can produce random events,but these are the only two systems that can exist in your beliefs.Emotions or blame,you cant blame a criminal for commiting a crime,for example because you dont allow him any freedom of will.He is completly autonomous.You cant get away from these two things,its cause and effect or it is random,how can there be a 3rd way.Anyway,I will have a look at the link
Good work.
A post as self contradictory and open to interpretation as the bible itself.
But we need only look to a true priest to seek the answers.
youtu.be/2TQuacxEjAU?si=QjHe_0FgXJRq6DIE
Sploom:
.At the end of the day,you have cause and effect,in which case ,without a soul,we are all robots,every thing in the past and future is pre determined and inevitable,or,OK,quantam mechanics or some other theory maybe can produce random events,but these are the only two systems that can exist in your beliefs.Emotions or blame,you cant blame a criminal for commiting a crime,for example because you dont allow him any freedom of will.He is completly autonomous.You cant get away from these two things,its cause and effect or it is random,how can there be a 3rd way.Anyway,I will have a look at the link
As so frequently seen, that is just confused and woolly thinking, but that’s what religious indoctrination gets you, because it closes you off from proper thought.
Once again, a “Soul” is fiction, but clearly you cannot conceive that humans can have independent thought without invoking this totally unnecessary Fairy Tale component.
I don’t believe in pre-determination, but that’s because I lack religious indoctrination. Criminals are responsible for their actions, because they have a “mind”, they have “choice”, they can “learn” - these are the elements which confer the status of “free will”, not some fictional “soul”.
I doubt very much you can accept any of what follows, but it is all scientifically verifiable: learning and choice (and therefore hypothetically “mind”, I could conjecture) are not exclusively human characteristics; other mammal and many bird species too frequently display learning and choice based on experience.
I’m not talking about simple Skinner/Pavlov type conditioning done in a laboratory, I’m talking about real learning and memory in the natural environment - The Orca (a big dolphin) and the Dunnock (a small brown bird) both live in complex societies where learning and memory, including the transmission of memory to other members of the group, are key to their survival.
Even insects: the honey bee can communicate complex information on the location of food sources by a complex “dance” which references directions based on measuring the angle of the sun in the sky. The commonplace squirrel, magpie or pigeon have also been shown to learn and remember. Religionists wouldn’t credit animals other than humans with “a soul”, but as can be clearly seen, they are not the “robots” you are envisaging for organisms lacking your fantasy component.
Other creatures have independently developed that ability we thought for so long was exclusively Human - the manufacture and use of tools (chimps and birds particularly).
To say nothing of the other abilities possessed by a wide range of creatures: Various marine worms can monitor the height of tides and the phases of the moon with an accuracy that most humans would need a computer to perform; the Monarch butterfly can navigate from Central Mexico to Western California and back again, without the help of a fictional “soul” or a “God”, sharks can detect bio-electric signatures of prey animals, even when the prey is buried in sand; pit vipers have a natural thermal imaging system so they can find mammalian prey even in total darkness.The list is endless.
The natural world, if you could but see it, is far more wonderful and “miraculous” than any of your Fairy Tales, but you deny it all because of religious indoctrination based on the ramblings of some deluded men long ago in the middle-east.
It is easier to suggest of the unqualified majority that they are “not a priest” rather than “Not a Scientist”.
As for myself, I’m no priest, nor have any qualifications in priestly subjects like Theology or Divinity.
I do however hold the classic “poor man’s degree” (ONC/HNC) in Physical Sciences, which by having “Sciences” as one of the words - might indeed actually make me some kind of authority on the subjects, even if not to the high degree of standards clearly expected of “Experts” which are supposedly all things to all people… I act as “Layman” in such discussions where I feel more than qualified to debate on science subjects, including my being Anti-Gaian.
“You can’t call yourself a Scientist - unless you are a Doctor or Professor!”
Yeh right.
None of us hold any kind of paper degree in “Driving” either - do we?
Zac_A:
The natural world, if you could but see it, is far more wonderful and “miraculous” than any of your Fairy Tales, but you deny it all because of religious indoctrination
Amen.
Zac_A:
Sploom:
.At the end of the day,you have cause and effect,in which case ,without a soul,we are all robots,every thing in the past and future is pre determined and inevitable,or,OK,quantam mechanics or some other theory maybe can produce random events,but these are the only two systems that can exist in your beliefs.Emotions or blame,you cant blame a criminal for commiting a crime,for example because you dont allow him any freedom of will.He is completly autonomous.You cant get away from these two things,its cause and effect or it is random,how can there be a 3rd way.Anyway,I will have a look at the linkAs so frequently seen, that is just confused and woolly thinking, but that’s what religious indoctrination gets you, because it closes you off from proper thought.
Once again, a “Soul” is fiction, but clearly you cannot conceive that humans can have independent thought without invoking this totally unnecessary Fairy Tale component.
I don’t believe in pre-determination, but that’s because I lack religious indoctrination. Criminals are responsible for their actions, because they have a “mind”, they have “choice”, they can “learn” - these are the elements which confer the status of “free will”, not some fictional “soul”.
I doubt very much you can accept any of what follows, but it is all scientifically verifiable: learning and choice (and therefore hypothetically “mind”, I could conjecture) are not exclusively human characteristics; other mammal and many bird species too frequently display learning and choice based on experience.
I’m not talking about simple Skinner/Pavlov type conditioning done in a laboratory, I’m talking about real learning and memory in the natural environment - The Orca (a big dolphin) and the Dunnock (a small brown bird) both live in complex societies where learning and memory, including the transmission of memory to other members of the group, are key to their survival.
Even insects: the honey bee can communicate complex information on the location of food sources by a complex “dance” which references directions based on measuring the angle of the sun in the sky. The commonplace squirrel, magpie or pigeon have also been shown to learn and remember. Religionists wouldn’t credit animals other than humans with “a soul”, but as can be clearly seen, they are not the “robots” you are envisaging for organisms lacking your fantasy component.
Other mammals and some birds have independently developed that ability we thought for so long was exclusively Human - the manufacture and use of tools (chimps and birds particularly).
To say nothing of the other abilities possessed by a wide range of creatures: Various marine worms can monitor the height of tides and the phases of the moon with an accuracy that most humans would need a computer to perform; the Monarch butterfly can navigate from Central Mexico to Western California and back again, without the help of a fictional “soul” or a “God”, sharks can detect bio-electric signatures of prey animals, even when the prey is buried in sand; pit vipers have a natural thermal imaging system so they can find mammalian prey even in total darkness.The list is endless.
The natural world, if you could but see it, is far more wonderful and “miraculous” than any of your Fairy Tales, but you deny it all because of religious indoctrination based on the ramblings of some deluded men long ago in the middle-east.
There are certain things that no one chooses or can accidentally be railroaded into…
Believers would call such actions “Evil”, and Non-believers have a bit of a problem here:
They really believe that anyone can be radicalized into doing atrocities such as beheading babies in particular.
Nope. Don’t believe that you can be.
Evil is Evil. You are either an Evil person, or a Good person who sometimes accidentally commits the more minor evils, such as “Getting Drunk and hitting someone” or say, tripping over, and stoving someone’s skull in. I don’t know anyone who can be talked into murdering a Baby, except my Ex Girlfriend perhaps, who placed employment by Lufthansa above Life and Death I might argue…
The most troubling aspect of Evil to most people - is that if you don’t realize you’ve commited it, and thus need to atone for it - you’ll have that millstone of damnation around your proverbial neck forever.
I see the task of Satan in the world as “attempting to mitigate the sins of mortals” without the need of Christ to redeem one.
this might get you say, as a ■■■■ to live to a ripe old age of 96, but you just ain’t getting to heaven…
Your purpose to Satan is to “put as many people off worshiping God as possible”. Nothing more. You are a Devil’s Pawn.
Then there’s the “Taught to be Evil” - possible of any random non-believer who gets routinely told that “Killing your baby is OK - because it is legal, and we don’t believe you’ll be punished by God for acting thus”.
Believe THAT at your soul’s Peril - but hey! - You don’t believe you HAVE a soul, so any amount of evil is yours to choose to commit, with no “payback” due later neither, as you don’t believe in the immortal soul either.
“Why bother with even the smallest pretence of being Good” is a big question that has always puzzled me…
If the Legal System says it’s OK - then why are there some people who’ll commit legalized evil, and others who’ll still hold out the pretence of being “Good” - among non-believers I mean here…?
Winseer:
There are certain things that no one chooses or can accidentally be railroaded into…
Believers would call such actions “Evil”, and Non-believers have a bit of a problem here:
They really believe that anyone can be radicalized into doing atrocities such as beheading babies in particular.
Nope. Don’t believe that you can be.
Evil is Evil. You are either an Evil person, or a Good person who sometimes accidentally commits the more minor evils, such as “Getting Drunk and hitting someone” or say, tripping over, and stoving someone’s skull in. I don’t know anyone who can be talked into murdering a Baby, except my Ex Girlfriend perhaps, who placed employment by Lufthansa above Life and Death I might argue…The most troubling aspect of Evil to most people - is that if you don’t realize you’ve commited it, and thus need to atone for it - you’ll have that millstone of damnation around your proverbial neck forever.
I see the task of Satan in the world as “attempting to mitigate the sins of mortals” without the need of Christ to redeem one.
this might get you say, as a ■■■■ to live to a ripe old age of 96, but you just ain’t getting to heaven…
Your purpose to Satan is to “put as many people off worshiping God as possible”. Nothing more. You are a Devil’s Pawn.Then there’s the “Taught to be Evil” - possible of any random non-believer who gets routinely told that “Killing your baby is OK - because it is legal, and we don’t believe you’ll be punished by God for acting thus”.
Believe THAT at your soul’s Peril - but hey! - You don’t believe you HAVE a soul, so any amount of evil is yours to choose to commit, with no “payback” due later neither, as you don’t believe in the immortal soul either.
“Why bother with even the smallest pretence of being Good” is a big question that has always puzzled me…
If the Legal System says it’s OK - then why are there some people who’ll commit legalized evil, and others who’ll still hold out the pretence of being “Good” - among non-believers I mean here…?
Any of you who are conversant in Winseer-ese, please translate that into English for me.
Zac_A:
Any of you who are conversant in Winseer-es.
Best of luck with that one.
It’s an exclusive language…(exclusive to Winseer that is. )
Zac_A:
Any of you who are conversant in Winseer-ese, please translate that into English for me.
Its all a storybook, it’s your brain telling you after reading it, don’t it say you have a soul well the soul is in the brain, easily influenced and led
When you die you rot, your not going anywhere else mate, its all a fairy story for adults, kids believe in their fairy stories you believe in yours
Nothing wrong with that if it gets you through the day
Even preaching your beliefs is fine we all have our realitys and some people go through their whole life and quietly keep it to themselves
I suppose the good thing is your not on your own and all of you praying for whatever reason and people getting killed by the thousands and thousands for no reason and not a miracle in sight
Jesus robroy answer his first question
Franglais:
Zac_A:
Any of you who are conversant in Winseer-ese, please translate that into English for me.
Dont know about you, but even HE makes more sense to me than Winseer ever does. 
robroy:
Franglais:
Zac_A:
Any of you who are conversant in Winseer-ese, please translate that into English for me.Dont know about you, but even HE makes more sense to me than Winseer ever does.
Oh yes, agreed.
But that does make me make me worry that my own sanity must be in doubt!
I mean understanding Prof Unwin, not agreeing with summat you said…
…
…HANG ON
If you’re listening to Radio 1, you won’t understand any of the arguments being discussed on Radio 4.
Simple fact of life.
“Wavelengths, dear boy…”
Winseer:
If you’re listening to Radio 1, you won’t understand any of the arguments being discussed on Radio 4.
Simple fact of life.“Wavelengths, dear boy…”
Nah…more like if you live on planet Earth, (us) you won’t understand any of the arguments coming from Planet Zogg. (you)
Simple fact of life.
We’re on different planets…
(dear boy)