Aye just a bit. 
Trying to sell faith to someone with none - is like trying to flog a sports car to someone who canât drive.
Maybe a person with more money than sense - might consider buying something theyâll never use - but the rest of us fall outside that group, so will go with what impacts us most in their daily lives.
Putting my neutral hat on for a mo, it is easy to see why people have âno faithâ or âbelieve in Evilâ - since they see bad people getting away with stuff day and night, whilst those who have âno faithâ only seem to very ocassionally fall foul to just plain bad luck, as âfatal outcomeâ might be perceived by onlookers generally.
My brother, who calls himself an Atheist - even admits heâd convert as quick as a shot - if there was any open in-your-face proof that God actually existedâŚ
After all, Abraham himself was an Atheist surely, right upto the moment he got called away from the Chaldees eh?
Yes,you are right there,if someone doesnt believe,its not right to push it on them.
But if he wants proof,ask him what he would exoect the proof to look like.
Its like this mystery of the human concsience.They want proof but it canât be determined what the proof would look like,never mind finding the proof
Sploom:
Yes,you are right there,if someone doesnt believe,its not right to push it on them.
But if he wants proof,ask him what he would exoect the proof to look like.
Its like this mystery of the human concsience.They want proof but it canât be determined what the proof would look like,never mind finding the proof
These days âProofâ and âBeliefâ are the same thing:
You cannot prove something to someone who doesnât believe in anything, and you cannot disprove anything before such people neither, as you cannot prove a negative.
Beats me what the point of âCourts of Lawâ now isâŚ?
Everyone and anyone convicted of a serious crime - is now likely to claim the âJury was Rigged against meâ - and it would be impossible to prove them wrong.
Thereâs no peace without Justice - But how can there ever be Justice when the system is rigged in favour of Big Money Players these days?
When was the last time a major politician got sentenced to a whole-of-life tariff?
âŚOr a Blue-Chip so-called âCaptain of Industryâ?
Maybe weâve now entered a âPost Truth Timeâ where the only way to bring so-called justice to such people - is to have them taken out by a political enemy instead?
With âSecurityâ in the hands of the big money players however - all they need to do to stay in the game - is stay ALIVE.
âŚAnd have a loyal enough security detail - thatâll put themselves in harmâs way to protect their employerâŚ
THAT kind of loyalty - is hard-to-come-by.
If you HAVE such though? - oneâs enemies will STILL call such a âFollowingâ a CULT - will they not?
What we, as Christians should do - is keep our heads down, lest we become next weekâs scapegoats by sitting on the fence for too long, refusing to pick the side of Righteousness over Evil.
As a Liberal Conservative myself, I realize full-well that I cannot be a âCenteristâ a moment longer in this wicked world.
There is nothing worth achieving that is on the Leftâs agenda - that is worth anything to people of the Right.
Vice-Versa though?
What does one actually GET by supporting the Left these daysâ â ?
âGetting rid of the Toriesâ - isnât an argument here.
One for TNâs Oly Trinerty of Sploomish, CF & Winseer - although I doubt their Religiousity extends to anything transcendental.
robroy:
Carryfast:
whisperingsmith:
The King James version of the New Testament was completed in 1611 by 8 members of the Church of England.There were (and still are) no original texts to translate. The oldest manuscripts we have were written down hundreds of years after the last apostle died. There are over 8,000 of these old manuscripts, with no two alike.
The King James translators used none of these, anyway. Instead, they edited previous translations to create a version their king and Parliament would approve.
So, 21st Century Christians believe the âWord of Godâ is a book edited in the 17th Century from 16th Century translations of 8,000 contradictory copies of 4th Century scrolls that claim to be copies of lost letters written in the 1st Century.
Thatâs not faith. Thatâs insanity.
Itâs actually written to suit the word of an adulterous murderer.Who set himself up as the head of his own church to suit his ideas regarding marriage vows and âcaringâ for a âwifeâ.When not murdering any opposition from the clergy as was the usual MO of the invading Franco Norman regime since at least Thomas Beckett.
Your point being what bearing in mind you obviously have no issues with the âissuesâ of Islam.My bet is that you didnât say the same thing to your Islamic mates.Carryfast,.why do you see everything as an either or scenario, not only are you creating an Islam v Christian argument,.you are now going down a a Protestant v Catholicism route.
You chucked the same argument at me, âŚwith no grounds whatsoever.
Why do you see all this as a competion, a bit like a Utd v City argument between 2 groups of football fans?Do you not get it?..
Ok Iâll reiterate what most lateral thinking non fantasist realist people, ie non believers, atheists⌠(or âinfidelsâ if you want to keep referring to Islam) thnk about ALL religions and their beliefs.ALL religion is pure preposterous and ridiculous fantasy ,.with some good stories chucked inâŚ(a bit like Rupert Bear in fact.
A concept that has no place in a modern society,.where otherwise rational people are level headed,.cynical and educatedâŚespecially when 99% of the ridiculous theories that go with it can be dispelled with science, which is suitably ignored by the more outlandish amongst you all.Whether you support one or the other, or cherry pick a different one, is totally irrelevant.
We seem to have gone back to page 1 of the argument btw, but there ya go.
The issue is clearly all about which team we support and identify with.
On that note Atheism has more holes than the idea of the creation and by definition a constructive creator with good motives.
While if youâre going to believe in a force for good that obviously means following a team that recognises and calls out evil and which doesnât mind dissent or disbelief.
On that note Iâm not aware of any conditions or questions being applied for entry to Catholic or CofE churches.You can choose to believe or selectively believe or be agnostic or even be Atheist or Muslim etc.
Obviously itâs Atheism and Islam and those professing too much to be supposed Christians like Sploom that have the issues here.
whisperingsmith:
One for TNâs Oly Trinerty of Sploomish, CF & Winseer - although I doubt their Religiousity extends to anything transcendental.0
Actually, thatâs not as silly a concept as it sounds:
My Mum had an âOOBEâ giving birth to my kid brotherâŚ
The biggest thing she remembers from it is ânot being in any painâ and looking down on herself in a hospital bed, but with the sound muted, so she couldnât tell what medical staff were talking about, merely who was coming and going⌠During this period, someone who wasnât recognized as a member of hospital staff apparently walked in, but had the wrong room and left - whom my Mum described in great detail, and took some time to be later identified as a porter posted to a different ward of the same hospital - on their first day there.
You can believe in more than one thing then.
With God and Satan - you cannot have one - without the other.
Satanists therefore - are almost 100% âbelieversâ, rather than âSoul Neglectorsâ which is how Liberal Atheists like to depict themselves, and Iâve met plenty of those other the years, who âdonât have any faithâ, but go along with the faith rituals of others when required to âfit inââŚ
To be a proper Satanist - you need to, as a Kid - to have had at least this reaction to âOrganized ReligionââŚ
Ah,the omen,Iâd forgotten all about that film.
But,really I think the worst kind of deception is where there is a whole lot of truth mixed with a small amount of lies so it makes it easier to swallow than the whole pack.
This is how the devil operates.He tells a lot of truth but with lies mixed in.He doesnt appear as a monster with a pitchfork.
2 CORINTHIANS 11:14
KJ21
And no marvel, for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
Isnât that the very definition of âPoliticsâ - the âEternal SeaââŚ?
Thereâs plenty of people in the field for âpossibly being the AntiChristââŚ
My suggestion is that it will be someone the actual religious faithfull are tricked into following, rather than some âSecularâ leader that gets the backing of the worldâs non-believersâŚ
What do you think would happen if so-called âElectric Jesusâ - Elon Musk suddenly developed a technology that can save millions - or can kill billions if used unwisely..?
Nothing kills people in Hospitals like a prolonged Power Cut for example, not even IDF air strikes except when they CAUSE that power cut of course!
I could even suspect thisâŚ
âNumber of people in hospitals worldwide combined being killed in airstrikes or hostile enemy actionâ <1%
âNumber of people in hospitals worldwide combined being killed daily by staff errors, neglect, and deliberate acts of evilâ >50%
Prove me wrong!
Sploom:
Ah,the omen,Iâd forgotten all about that film.
But,really I think the worst kind of deception is where there is a whole lot of truth mixed with a small amount of lies so it makes it easier to swallow than the whole pack.
This is how the devil operates.He tells a lot of truth but with lies mixed in.He doesnt appear as a monster with a pitchfork.2 CORINTHIANS 11:14
KJ21
And no marvel, for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
I bet the Lefties would worship some charismatic politician who either put Trump in jail, or bumped him off entirelyâŚ
âThere is a god!â theyâd collectively say, not caring that thereâs no capital âGâ thereâŚ
Then thereâs Satan himself - who started OUT as an âAngel of Lightâ - Lucifer Morningstar, no lessâŚ
People have made God in their own image, rather than knuckle under to the Supreme Being as any lesser creature shouldâŚ
Oh the Hubris!
There are different kinds of âNon-Believerâ;
(1) âThe Lazyâ - were once of a faith, but couldnât be arsed to keep up with it.
(2) âThe Blasphemerâ - Are so set in their position of authority and power - that they wonât give it up, even when their boss actually looks them in the face, que Kaiaphas with Christ before him⌠Kaiaphas knew perfectly well who was there before him - but decided to be a useful idiot for the Devil instead.
(3) âThe Doubterâ - Would be of stronger faith if they had more proof - but get so much stick in the meantime, that they eventually just give up on it.
(4) âThe Jadedâ - Well-versed in whatever faith they grew up in, but eventually âGrow out of itâ as if beliving in Christ were like a kid believing in Father ChristmasâŚ
(5) âThe Turnedâ - âDrop your faith, or weâll do something nasty to you and your familyâ. You might also call this group âHard-of-Martyrdomâ⌠
(6) âThe Learnedâ - think that âGodâ is imaginary, but fail to realise the paradox that they might not actually be standing there right now, having accepted their entire life is a dream in reality, like the MatrixâŚ
(7) âThe Meekâ - might be set to inherit the Earth, but first - they have to survive that long. The meek will go along with whomever is in charge, good or bad.
Theyâll "Give unto Caesar what is Caesarâs"every day, but only âGive unto God what is Godâsâ when God personally asks them, which for most - isnât happening anytime soon.
A lot of people who are âNon-Believersâ actually donât have much strength in their lack-of convictionâŚ
Otherwise, all Non-Believers would be powerful evil people, beloved of SatanâŚ
Question for all:
What do you think was going through the minds of the average Aregentinian in electing an even more extreme eccentric than Trump yesterday?
It is odd indeed that people somehow âdonât believe they are going to die one day, and face judgementâ despite the fact that the Death Rate has been a constant 100% since the dawn of time.
TO an Atheist - you die, and go to nothingness - or you got it all wrong, and you burn in hell instead.
To a believer - you die and get resurrected, with Christ as a get-out-of hell Free card.
âNo one gets to the Father except by Meâ - says Christ.
Pity those then who followed some other belief system, like Communism - where âyouâre gone foreverâ once your superiors do away with you, and expend you like firewood for their cause, rather than yoursâŚ
The battle lines are clearly drawn.
I donât think we have much longer to wait for the âoutcomeâ.
The game-changer though is that âEast vs Westâ is no longer âCommunism vs Christianityâ.
Itâs entirely FLIPPED.
Nowadays we associate Christianity with âRight-Wingnessâ and âAutocratsâ.
It is only the othe side that call that axis âEvilâ rather than âGoodâ when the very definition of Evil surely cannot include anything âOf Godâ one would have thought?
I wonder how many formerly âdevoutâ believers - are going to be conned into thinking that âLiberal Leftismâ is âGoodâ rather than the evil it so obviously is to those who do NOT oppose âAutocracyâ or âRight WingnessââŚ?
Carryfast:
robroy:
Carryfast:
whisperingsmith:
The King James version of the New Testament was completed in 1611 by 8 members of the Church of England.There were (and still are) no original texts to translate. The oldest manuscripts we have were written down hundreds of years after the last apostle died. There are over 8,000 of these old manuscripts, with no two alike.
The King James translators used none of these, anyway. Instead, they edited previous translations to create a version their king and Parliament would approve.
So, 21st Century Christians believe the âWord of Godâ is a book edited in the 17th Century from 16th Century translations of 8,000 contradictory copies of 4th Century scrolls that claim to be copies of lost letters written in the 1st Century.
Thatâs not faith. Thatâs insanity.
Itâs actually written to suit the word of an adulterous murderer.Who set himself up as the head of his own church to suit his ideas regarding marriage vows and âcaringâ for a âwifeâ.When not murdering any opposition from the clergy as was the usual MO of the invading Franco Norman regime since at least Thomas Beckett.
Your point being what bearing in mind you obviously have no issues with the âissuesâ of Islam.My bet is that you didnât say the same thing to your Islamic mates.Carryfast,.why do you see everything as an either or scenario, not only are you creating an Islam v Christian argument,.you are now going down a a Protestant v Catholicism route.
You chucked the same argument at me, âŚwith no grounds whatsoever.
Why do you see all this as a competion, a bit like a Utd v City argument between 2 groups of football fans?Do you not get it?..
Ok Iâll reiterate what most lateral thinking non fantasist realist people, ie non believers, atheists⌠(or âinfidelsâ if you want to keep referring to Islam) thnk about ALL religions and their beliefs.ALL religion is pure preposterous and ridiculous fantasy ,.with some good stories chucked inâŚ(a bit like Rupert Bear in fact.
A concept that has no place in a modern society,.where otherwise rational people are level headed,.cynical and educatedâŚespecially when 99% of the ridiculous theories that go with it can be dispelled with science, which is suitably ignored by the more outlandish amongst you all.Whether you support one or the other, or cherry pick a different one, is totally irrelevant.
We seem to have gone back to page 1 of the argument btw, but there ya go.
The issue is clearly all about which team we support and identify with.
On that note Atheism has more holes than the idea of the creation and by definition a constructive creator with good motives.
While if youâre going to believe in a force for good that obviously means following a team that recognises and calls out evil and which doesnât mind dissent or disbelief.
On that note Iâm not aware of any conditions or questions being applied for entry to Catholic or CofE churches.You can choose to believe or selectively believe or be agnostic or even be Atheist or Muslim etc.
Obviously itâs Atheism and Islam and those professing too much to be supposed Christians like Sploom that have the issues here.
Weâre through the looking glass now people. Strap yourselves in
Winseer:
It is odd indeed that people somehow âdonât believe they are going to die one day, and face judgementâ despite the fact that the Death Rate has been a constant 100% since the dawn of time.TO an Atheist - you die, and go to nothingness - or you got it all wrong, and you burn in hell instead.
To a believer - you die and get resurrected, with Christ as a get-out-of hell Free card.
âNo one gets to the Father except by Meâ - says Christ.
Pity those then who followed some other belief system, like Communism - where âyouâre gone foreverâ once your superiors do away with you, and expend you like firewood for their cause, rather than yoursâŚ
Do you never stop and realise how utterly childish that sounds?
^^^^^^^
Yep, exactly.
Itâs views like that,.and people like Winseer and the casual way they express those type views with an air of ââYou are wrong, I am undoubtedly rightââ, no matter how preposterous and ridiculous those views areâŚ, which are one of the MANY reasons I avoid religion as much as I avoid Herpes and ballet dancing.
The god they believe in is clearly an incredibly petty, childish control freak to say the least.
Petulant, Childish or whatever - weâre all Children of God regardless of it being recognized by the same errant âChildrenâ who are as petulant for trying to rebel against âControl Freakeryâ as they are naive thinking that any cause is worth perishing forever forâŚ
How can it be?
âHey, I got this great Atheist ideal: Iâll get myself killed whilst harming others to aid those both richer than me and those Iâll never meet have a better life instead.â (I wonât be damned, as I donât believe in such a conceptâŚ)
Let that be repeated over oneâs smouldering bones, justifiably taken out (for example) by an IDF airstrike that follows the ancient wisdom of âLet the seed of thine enemy - be no moreâ.
âEvilâ is about STARTING the violence, rather than âGoodâ which has a habit of ending it, and putting it âbeyond reachâ by the simple caveat of "Thereâs no enemy left to attack us, as weâve taken the whole lot of 'em out!".
âŚOf COURSE it is for Hamas and their godless supporters to âDemandâ a ceasefire that wonât be coming anytime soon.
What else do they have but hollow arguments as to why they should survive with their women and kids over the women and kids theyâve already slaughtered up-close and personal of their enemies theyâve made?
compared to
âHey, Iâd lay down my life to save those I love and my neighbor into the bargain, knowing that even if I die - Iâll get somehow brought back one day in a way I have yet to understand howâ.
Easy: We all have a chance to immortalize ourselves through our offspring/descendents.
Give that up though?
It has always been odd to me why Rich people seem to shun having the larger families these days (achieved by polyamory) whereas âFeckless Fathersâ seem to find no bounds as to how many kids they can have via women already living off the state as benefit scroungersâŚ
Your brain really is a raging skip fire of absolute nonsense isnât it.