A religion question for Robroy,but will he give me a straigh

[carryfast]

switchlogic:

Carryfast:

switchlogic:
[ Some of us are just here to have a good life and enjoy our time in the sun. What happens after we’re gone is irrelevant and not our concern.

That idea isn’t mutually exclusive with belief in God.In fact more like the opposite.God is totally in control of our destiny after life at least whatever that destiny may or may not be.While can only hope that the clauses forgive us our tresspasses, lead us not into temptation, deliver us from evil, meant and mean what they said literally and will be taken into account and we measure up on arrival.
While if it all turns out to be misplaced belief then obviously nothing lost either way because in that case we’ll obviously know nothing about it.
Ego is totally irrelevant by that logic.

Didn’t say it was, was merely answering a question as an atheist

If believers are wrong in our belief in God and the after life that just obviously means reversion to atheism by default not by choice when the time comes and in which case we won’t know anything about that reversion taking place at that point anyway.
Which really makes the idea of atheism moot and irrelevant.When the mortal existence is the same for both.
Bearing in mind that as a believer I don’t believe that I, as a mortal being, have any say or influence in God’s will and judgement of my soul when the time comes, other than to hope and pray that I measure up.While if my belief in God and the afterlife turns out to have been misplaced then I won’t know anything about it anyway.
What’s the point of atheism in that case ?.

[robroy]

Carryfast:

Sploom:
This life is so short and temporary,why not make a plan for the next life…

Ironically some don’t believe that there is a next life.
.

Why ‘ironically’■■
I wrote Sploom off weeks ago a religious brain washed nut job, he’s a lost cause, adequately and well illustrated by his religious sermon style rants on here… which is why I dumped this thread…I could not be arsed with it anymore, and especially when he was backed up by the forum lunatic who will remain nameless.

…
But as for you CF, despite your persona on here you come across as a rational intelligent bloke.

So explain to me, (this is not a pop or an attempt to ridicule you either btw) but how can anybody with a modicum of rationality, in this modern age still believe in all this primitive ■■■■ that was made up in the days when people pointed at fire with amazement and barked at the moon.

When you die you ■■■■ die end of!

All the different versions of the preposterous notion that you go and live in another world was made up by primitive tribes that both feared and did not relish or accept the notion of death,.so they made all this stuff up with zero substance, to act as a cushion, a reassurance, and even in some cases in more modern times where the more radical nut jobs blow themselves up…an incentive.

And you and people like you who live in a modern world in 2023 still actually believe it??

How does intelligence, realism and rationality bear any correlation to this ridiculous belief, that when you die you transfer yourself to another life.
I just don’t get it.

Do you fear death CF?
Presumably not because you believe (kid yourself/hope) in this after life clap trap…
So…if it was 100% proven without a shadow of a doubt that there was zero chance of your afterlife, how would you feel then about dying?
You presumably will not admit it to me,.but I would hazard a guess you would have an element of fear…which kinda proves my point.

Me?
I ain’t afraid as such,.I obviously do not want to take that path anytime soon, but the realist in me knows that when the time comes, I’m going nowhere.

[switchlogic]

Sploom:
switchlogic
It’s irrelevant whether I think it’s childish or not.It is what it is.
If you believe a perfect God created everything,then it must follow that He has to punish sinners.And here is the problem.That’s us! Every one of us has sinned in many ways,whether it’s lying,■■■■,anger,cheating,gossip,the list goes on.If you havent done any of these,you will get to Heaven but if you have,then there is a price to be paid.Imagine a judge in a court of law.He has to serve justice.He cant just overlook everything and dismiss the case.
Jesus came to save sinners from the wrath of God but it is a free choice whether to accept the free gift of salvation or meet God on judgement day when ALL our deeds will be laid bare.Nobody will be able to blag their way out of it.God has to punish sinners,otherwise He wouldn’t be a holy and good God

It’s partly why I don’t believe, because the whole of religion is so obviously man made it’s comical, or would be were it not so destructive. I’ll say one thing for it, it’s the most impressive form of control humanity has ever invented, nothing else comes close. (I’m not singling out any one religio, they are all as made up as each other)

[switchlogic]

robroy:
So explain to me, (this is not a pop or an attempt to ridicule you either btw) but how can anybody with a modicum of rationality, in this modern age still believe in all this primitive [zb] that was made up in the days when people pointed at fire with amazement and barked at the moon.

Yes it seems that CF is religious and one thing about that makes me laugh……how he believes almost every aspect of our lives is one big conspiracy………but not religion, the one thing that so obviously is

[robroy]

switchlogic:

Sploom:
switchlogic
It’s irrelevant whether I think it’s childish or not.It is what it is.
If you believe a perfect God created everything,then it must follow that He has to punish sinners.And here is the problem.That’s us! Every one of us has sinned in many ways,whether it’s lying,■■■■,anger,cheating,gossip,the list goes on.If you havent done any of these,you will get to Heaven but if you have,then there is a price to be paid.Imagine a judge in a court of law.He has to serve justice.He cant just overlook everything and dismiss the case.
Jesus came to save sinners from the wrath of God but it is a free choice whether to accept the free gift of salvation or meet God on judgement day when ALL our deeds will be laid bare.Nobody will be able to blag their way out of it.God has to punish sinners,otherwise He wouldn’t be a holy and good God

It’s partly why I don’t believe, because the whole of religion is so obviously man made it’s comical, or would be were it not so destructive. I’ll say one thing for it, it’s the most impressive form of control humanity has ever invented, nothing else comes close. (I’m not singling out any one religio, they are all as made up as each other)

I know you’ve had a pop at me in the past about ‘Don’t mention the war’ , but what you have just described was what went on in 30s and 40s Germany.
Naziism…The same principle, and same techniques and methods used as any religion,… playing on peoples fears and insecurities, promises, giving them hope,.(usually false) radicalisation, instilling preposterous notions and theories into people by brainwash, (or in their case expert propaganda) and before you know it the knock on effect is people actually go on to repeat it all however ridiculous, but completely believing it all…Exactly the same concept , and utterly dangerous to society.

[carryfast]

switchlogic:

Sploom:
Carryfast.
Just for the record,I am far from perfect and I would go so far as to say,there are better people than me in hell now.
But the Bible is pretty clear on this subject.There is no repentance after death.You only have this one short life to accept or reject Jesus’s sacrifice on the cross as full payment for your sins.You only get one crack at this.You have to get it right the first time.If you get it wrong,there is no turning back

Do you never stop and think what a load of old nonsense that it all is though? Read back what you’ve written……would the god you supposedly believe in really be that petty and childish?

It’s more like logistics.Its generally accepted that we hope and pray for all the best in the after life while we physically can in this one.
However Sploom seems be confusing asking/hoping for the best outcome with actually trying to physically influence it by whatever means.God is the judge and jury the soul can’t physically speak and the mortal body makes so many mistakes through this life that we often don’t even realise it at the time, or can’t count em, or even remember em all and if we do they only become apparent with hindsight.God knows that he made us fallible in that regard and that’s as much as and all we can hope for at the final judgement.Its not in our control.
Pettyness obviously isn’t even in such a being’s vocabulary.
While Sploom seems to be contradicting himself by suggesting that he knows how high the bar is set.
Then rightly saying that it could actually be set at any arbitrary point.Assuming the latter then we obviously ain’t got a clue and it’s not our call or worry as to the final verdict because nothing we do or say in this life or the next can change it or influence it.
For us it’s all a matter of hope and pray and that’s it as far as it goes.
I’d like to think that God has a sense of humour in that regard like Dave Allen.

[star_down_under]

Sploom:
switchlogic
It’s irrelevant whether I think it’s childish or not.It is what it is.
If you believe a perfect God created everything,then it must follow that He has to punish sinners.And here is the problem.That’s us! Every one of us has sinned in many ways,whether it’s lying,■■■■,anger,cheating,gossip,the list goes on.If you havent done any of these,you will get to Heaven but if you have,then there is a price to be paid.Imagine a judge in a court of law.He has to serve justice.He cant just overlook everything and dismiss the case.
Jesus came to save sinners from the wrath of God but it is a free choice whether to accept the free gift of salvation or meet God on judgement day when ALL our deeds will be laid bare.Nobody will be able to blag their way out of it.God has to punish sinners,otherwise He wouldn’t be a holy and good God

That’s exactly what you are doing, ignoring the intelligent, logical science whilst embracing contradictory, magical fairy tales.

[star_down_under]

switchlogic:

robroy:
So explain to me, (this is not a pop or an attempt to ridicule you either btw) but how can anybody with a modicum of rationality, in this modern age still believe in all this primitive [zb] that was made up in the days when people pointed at fire with amazement and barked at the moon.

Yes it seems that CF is religious and one thing about that makes me laugh……how he believes almost every aspect of our lives is one big conspiracy………but not religion, the one thing that so obviously is

That point didn’t go unnoticed by me.

[carryfast]

robroy:

Carryfast:

Sploom:
This life is so short and temporary,why not make a plan for the next life…

Ironically some don’t believe that there is a next life.
.

Why ‘ironically’■■
I wrote Sploom off weeks ago a religious brain washed nut job, he’s a lost cause, adequately and well illustrated by his religious sermon style rants on here… which is why I dumped this thread…I could not be arsed with it anymore, and especially when he was backed up by the forum lunatic who will remain nameless.

…
But as for you CF, despite your persona on here you come across as a rational intelligent bloke.

So explain to me, (this is not a pop or an attempt to ridicule you either btw) but how can anybody with a modicum of rationality, in this modern age still believe in all this primitive [zb] that was made up in the days when people pointed at fire with amazement and barked at the moon.

When you die you [zb] die end of!

All the different versions of the preposterous notion that you go and live in another world was made up by primitive tribes that both feared and did not relish or accept the notion of death,.so they made all this stuff up with zero substance, to act as a cushion, a reassurance, and even in some cases in more modern times where the more radical nut jobs blow themselves up…an incentive.

And you and people like you who live in a modern world in 2023 still actually believe it??

How does intelligence, realism and rationality bear any correlation to this ridiculous belief, that when you die you transfer yourself to another life.
I just don’t get it.

Do you fear death CF?
Presumably not because you believe (kid yourself/hope) in this after life clap trap…
So…if it was 100% proven without a shadow of a doubt that there was zero chance of your afterlife, how would you feel then about dying?
You presumably will not admit it to me,.but I would hazard a guess you would have an element of fear…which kinda proves my point.

Me?
I ain’t afraid as such,.I obviously do not want to take that path anytime soon, but the realist in me knows that when the time comes, I’m going nowhere.

Conflating the fear of death thing with belief in the after life is an oxymoron.
Fear of death is all about our sane mortal survival instinct which is the same for believers or atheists and any potential afterlife won’t be anything like our mortal existence and senses so unfortunately there’ll be no driving fast cars and beer there which is a downside.
In my case at least I went from agnostic to believer for a number of reasons mostly based on the idea that science can’t explain the origin and purpose of life on balance it takes miraculous divine intervention.
The idea of an after life, at least for something as complex as human beings, is a logical addition to that.
I haven’t got a clue what that afterlife might be because only God knows that and unlike Sploom I believe my admittance to it and what form it might take is totally at God’s discretion and call there’s nothing I can do about it and think it’s possibly counter productive in that to think otherwise.
While as stated ‘if’ I’m wrong in that belief by default then it’ll just be the same end as that of any atheist and by definition I won’t know anything about it.
So obviously not based on fear of death because this life as we know it ends either way.

[carryfast]

robroy:
what you have just described was what went on in 30s and 40s Germany.
Naziism…The same principle, and same techniques and methods used as any religion,… playing on peoples fears and insecurities, promises, giving them hope,.(usually false) radicalisation, instilling preposterous notions and theories into people by brainwash, (or in their case expert propaganda) and before you know it the knock on effect is people actually go on to repeat it all however ridiculous, but completely believing it all…Exactly the same concept , and utterly dangerous to society.

So you’re saying that North Korea’s atheist based constitution, like Marxist ideology in general, is and has historically been a force for good in the world ?.
Relatively better than that of Christian based Brit and US ideology in defending the interests of the free world against that atheist based aggression ?.
Also Hitler never went to war in the name of Christianity.Just like his ideologically atheist Soviet allies in the invasion of Poland.

[sploom]

switchlogic.You told us why you dont believe but you didnt say anything about the reasons I think atheism fails…

[sploom]

Robroy.
Same again,you ignored my valid points and critisized me,same old thing.
I cant even imagine this mindset where you think that death is the end of everything.God has created us as eternal beings with a soul(cant be recreated on a computer)
Ever looked at that website,the death clock?
You put your year of birth in,weight,whether you smoke and so on.Then it tells you how long you’ve got left.And then I thoight ,what was in the music charts that same many years ago and I thought,is that it!

JAMES 4:14
KJ21
whereas ye know not what shall be on the morrow. For what is your life? It is even a vapor that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away.

[robroy]

Sploom:
Robroy.
Same again,you ignored my valid points and critisized me,same old thing.
I cant even imagine this mindset where you think that death is the end of everything.God has created us as eternal beings with a soul(cant be recreated on a computer)
Ever looked at that website,the death clock?
You put your year of birth in,weight,whether you smoke and so on.Then it tells you how long you’ve got left.And then I thoight ,what was in the music charts that same many years ago and I thought,is that it!

JAMES 4:14
KJ21
whereas ye know not what shall be on the morrow. For what is your life? It is even a vapor that appeareth for a little time, and then vanisheth away.

Can’t believe you’ve drawn me into another argument, but I’ll indulge you until I get bored again.

I ignore your points because 99% of them aint actually valid, but are based on your religious prepostourous fantasy.
You spout endless points of fantasy as if they are fact.
You say you can’t believe there is nothing after death…seriously mate believe it, you are gonna get a big shock at the end of your life…or rather YOU WON’T

I criticise you mainly because you ask for it,.again with the clap trap you spout as if is actual fact…
So unless you can PROVE it IS actual fact, and not something you have read in an ancient manuscript that you use as a guide to life, I will keep on criticising you.
Hope that explains (at long last )

I looked at your ‘death clock’ website with trepidation expecting yet another link to some religious b/s …but I was wrong, this is what came up.

No not a religious site,.but as it says ‘Tongue in cheek’,
So again you (true to form) have read something, believed it,.and went on to promote it…classic Sploom eh?.

And just to repeat…,do not quote crap to me with words ending with ‘eth’ and which are embellished with a few 'Thous, thees,.and ye’s…I dont live in the 16th Century and I dont react to religious dog sh.
Cheers.

[the_nodding_donkey]

Sploom,

I won’t bother arguing any of your points, as you have obviously given up replying to me. Wether that is fear, or boredom, only you know.
But rest assured. If you are right after all, we will meet on the day of reckoning. And I’m looking forward to it. For I choose the path of self responsibility and fairness, not submission and fear.

_\m/.

[switchlogic]

Sploom:
switchlogic.You told us why you dont believe but you didnt say anything about the reasons I think atheism fails…

It fails because of unanswered questions? Sort of shoot down your own beliefs with that comment, proving that religion is just a convenient answer for people terrified of the unknown. Compared to what the universe actually is, all the amazing things we find out all the time I find the idea of one being creating everything rather dull in comparison. The universe is full of amazing wonders that we know about that make the Bible look as dull as dishwater in comparison, so just imagine how exciting the incredible stuff we are yet to discover. I find it all super exciting. Life is absolutely f******* incredible, I’m loving every minute of being alive, partly because it’s finite

[sploom]

Robroy.

Its hard to see how I can take things any further with you because you already said that even if Jesus appeared to you for real ,you would still reject Him.I asked one of the elders about this and they said even when Jesus was performing miracles in front of their eyes,there were those who rejected Him

[sploom]

Carryfast.
I am not a catholic.I see this as a false belief system but I do believe in the trinity.
You said that Jesus doesnt absolve you from your responability for your actions?
Have you kept all the commandements?
Thou shalt not lie.Thou shalt not steal.Jesus said even looking at a woman with ■■■■ counts as adultery…
Not asking you for a reply.I mean it as a rhetorical question.God’s justice demands punishment for sin.You want to pay the punishment or your sins yourself?It will take you eternity.There is no small sin because there is no small god to sin against
Maybe you only sinned once.Will God overlook that one sin? Err,no He wont
JAMES 2:10
KJ21
For whosoever shall keep the whole law and yet offend on one point, he is guilty of all.
ASV

Colossians 1:14

God’s Son, Jesus, paid the price for our sins and made us free. Yes, God has forgiven us.

[switchlogic]

Carryfast:

robroy:
what you have just described was what went on in 30s and 40s Germany.
Naziism…The same principle, and same techniques and methods used as any religion,… playing on peoples fears and insecurities, promises, giving them hope,.(usually false) radicalisation, instilling preposterous notions and theories into people by brainwash, (or in their case expert propaganda) and before you know it the knock on effect is people actually go on to repeat it all however ridiculous, but completely believing it all…Exactly the same concept , and utterly dangerous to society.

So you’re saying that North Korea’s atheist based constitution, like Marxist ideology in general, is and has historically been a force for good in the world ?.
Relatively better than that of Christian based Brit and US ideology in defending the interests of the free world against that atheist based aggression ?.
Also Hitler never went to war in the name of Christianity.Just like his ideologically atheist Soviet allies in the invasion of Poland.

Good old CF, making up peoples opinions as he goes. So very predictable

[robroy]

Sploom:
Robroy.

Its hard to see how I can take things any further with you because you already said that even if Jesus appeared to you for real ,you would still reject Him.I asked one of the elders about this and they said even when Jesus was performing miracles in front of their eyes,there were those who rejected Him

There you go again just nonchalantly and casually saying stuff that in your eyes we should just take for granted is fact…confusing fantasy with fact.
I do not doubt for one minute that a bloke called Jesus lived in the Middle East over 2000.years ago as a religious prophet, he is an historical figure.
He was executed by the Roman authorities, for being an activist and looked upon as a threat…that is recorded history.ie FACT.

The notion that he was the son of a god,.and that he came back to life after the execution is made up by gullible people like yourself who WANT to believe it, hence the use of the word ‘FAITH’.

Undoubtedly his followers with an aim to perpetuate his brand of religion amongst all the other religions at that time, were the instigator of that theory.

Another possibility is that it has been recorded that people have survived attempts to execute them, hanging for instance.
Maybe he survived it, was cared for by his friends, associates,.disciples or Mary Magdalene who was essentially his partner…(.being that it was recorded that she was the only ‘‘follower’’ that he kissed on the mouth.)
You do not need to be Sherlock to figure out that they were actually a couple.

So bearing those historical facts and possibilities,.I am confident that a bloke who lived 2000 years ago is not going to quote; ‘‘Appear to me for real’’ anytime soon.
So tell your ‘‘elders’’ , to put that in their collective metaphorical pipes,.and smoke it.
I can not see any way this conversation is going to progress, so tell ya what…
Leave me to ■■■■ alone with all this.

[robroy]

Carryfast:

robroy:

Carryfast:

Sploom:
This life is so short and temporary,why not make a plan for the next life…

Ironically some don’t believe that there is a next life.
.

Why ‘ironically’■■
I wrote Sploom off weeks ago a religious brain washed nut job, he’s a lost cause, adequately and well illustrated by his religious sermon style rants on here… which is why I dumped this thread…I could not be arsed with it anymore, and especially when he was backed up by the forum lunatic who will remain nameless.

…
But as for you CF, despite your persona on here you come across as a rational intelligent bloke.

So explain to me, (this is not a pop or an attempt to ridicule you either btw) but how can anybody with a modicum of rationality, in this modern age still believe in all this primitive [zb] that was made up in the days when people pointed at fire with amazement and barked at the moon.

When you die you [zb] die end of!

All the different versions of the preposterous notion that you go and live in another world was made up by primitive tribes that both feared and did not relish or accept the notion of death,.so they made all this stuff up with zero substance, to act as a cushion, a reassurance, and even in some cases in more modern times where the more radical nut jobs blow themselves up…an incentive.

And you and people like you who live in a modern world in 2023 still actually believe it??

How does intelligence, realism and rationality bear any correlation to this ridiculous belief, that when you die you transfer yourself to another life.
I just don’t get it.

Do you fear death CF?
Presumably not because you believe (kid yourself/hope) in this after life clap trap…
So…if it was 100% proven without a shadow of a doubt that there was zero chance of your afterlife, how would you feel then about dying?
You presumably will not admit it to me,.but I would hazard a guess you would have an element of fear…which kinda proves my point.

Me?
I ain’t afraid as such,.I obviously do not want to take that path anytime soon, but the realist in me knows that when the time comes, I’m going nowhere.

Conflating the fear of death thing with belief in the after life is an oxymoron.
Fear of death is all about our sane mortal survival instinct which is the same for believers or atheists and any potential afterlife won’t be anything like our mortal existence and senses so unfortunately there’ll be no driving fast cars and beer there which is a downside.
In my case at least I went from agnostic to believer for a number of reasons mostly based on the idea that science can’t explain the origin and purpose of life on balance it takes miraculous divine intervention.
The idea of an after life, at least for something as complex as human beings, is a logical addition to that.
I haven’t got a clue what that afterlife might be because only God knows that and unlike Sploom I believe my admittance to it and what form it might take is totally at God’s discretion and call there’s nothing I can do about it and think it’s possibly counter productive in that to think otherwise.
While as stated ‘if’ I’m wrong in that belief by default then it’ll just be the same end as that of any atheist and by definition I won’t know anything about it.
So obviously not based on fear of death because this life as we know it ends either way.

Ok I get it, you’ve been conned,.and swallowed it all hook line and sinker.
So no further questions as it would be a complete waste of your (and mine) time pursuing it.
Cheers.