OK,but you were brought up in a Christian home so you must have believed at some point but then you got to a point where you rejected it.But lets compare it to believing in Father Christmas.You believed in him until you got to a certain age and realised that he wasnt real.Was this a dissapointment?
But when you decided God wasnt real,part of you might have been glad because you didnt want any restriction on the pleasures this world offers.
So maybe its not a question of belief but the fact that if you believe He exists and admit that,then that means you have to obey Him…
But the difference with you and other people I spoke to,you do have the will to keep talking about it whereas other people people I spoke to just cut me short as soon I mention it.Its complelty off limits,but this gives me hope you might one day be a believer.I mentioned the tribulation which I am studying at the moment and its inttesting in that there might be proof one day,although I wasnt able to establish what you would consider as sufficient proof…
Sploom:
OK,but you were brought up in a Christian home so you must have believed at some point but then you got to a point where you rejected it.But lets compare it to believing in Father Christmas.You believed in him until you got to a certain age and realised that he wasnt real.Was this a dissapointment?
But when you decided God wasnt real,part of you might have been glad because you didnt want any restriction on the pleasures this world offers.
So maybe its not a question of belief but the fact that if you believe He exists and admit that,then that means you have to obey Him…
Bloody hell mate Mr Persistant or what?
It’s interesting that YOU use the belief in Father Christmas as an analogy, being that in reality it is NOT an analogy, but one and the same thing…both pure fantasy.
I was a child,.children trust adults, in the context of ‘it must be true a grown up told me’…the whole basis for any type of child abuse. 
I grew up,.I saw things as they actually were as opposed to what I was told.
I thought as I got a little older, how can a man with super powers fly all around the world to every child in the world and deliver toys,.and on such a small vehicle/How can a man with super powers create a a world and everything in it…Can you see where I’m going here?
I grew up K was no longer easily convinced,.I was no longer gullible, but it seems some never grow up.eh?
I see forcing beliefs on your children,.especially illogical untrue preposterous beliefs as a form of child abuse.
In my case very mild and unintentional abuse, albeit with good intentions
.
In your case instilling supernatural primitive ,.beliefs on your children to the absolute n.th degree , bordering on evil, for your own well being.thus leading them into a unhappy and very restrictive existence that belongs I the age of when witchcraft was prevalent.
Do you STILL.think you can convert me,? 
I hate ANY type of religion mate, it is by far the main reason for most conflicts and troubles in the world, and the same world would be a far better place without it, and without the type of people who perpetuate it.
robroy:
I hate ANY type of religion mate, it is by far the main reason for most conflicts and troubles in the world, and the same world would be a far better place without it, and without the type of people who perpetuate it.
Are you seriously trying to make the case that the ringing church bells and the motivation of the congregation seen for example in any Italian village on any Sunday morning is based on inherent group collective evil ?.
The truth is most of most serious conflict in the world has been the result of regimes that at best downplay or at worse vilify or subvert Christian faith and values.
The result being the atrocities of Socialist/Marxist and the ■■■■ regimes.Both of which unsurprisingly united Protestants and Catholics and Muslims in a rampage of crimes against humanity.
Christianity ain’t the inherent problem and atheism ain’t the unquestionable solution here.
Mmm.I have a friend who believes the moon landings were fake.Any time I see him,if the subject comes up,he would insist it is true and even show me what looks like convincing evidence but I dont believe it was faked.There would have to be too many people involved in the conspiracy for it to hold true,in my opinion.But then,Im not infallible on this,so it could,in theory at least,all be faked.
Now,who is enforcing their beliefs here?
Is it me? Or my friend?
How do you determine which one of us is enforcing his belief on the other?
Sploom:
Hutpik.
We believe scripture is the word of God.
We pray to God.But scripture is God’s word for us
Even though Whispering Smith told you plainly your ESV is just a modern, 20-ish year old, American creation? Even after all that you think it mirrors accurately what was written on old parchments thousands of years ago? 
BBOFT is my abbreviation for your Bible, I’ve only been using it all throughout this thread 
:
Big Book Of Fairy Tales
Sploom:
But the difference with you and other people I spoke to,you do have the will to keep talking about it whereas other people people I spoke to just cut me short as soon I mention it.Its complelty off limits,but this gives me hope you might one day be a believer.I mentioned the tribulation which I am studying at the moment and its inttesting in that there might be proof one day,although I wasnt able to establish what you would consider as sufficient proof…
It’s not “will”, it’s a lack of empathy, you (deliberately or otherwise) fail to see when people are not interested in fairy tales.
Just because someone indulges your insanity does not mean they are open to being sucked into that fantasy word - or as you call it, being “converted”.
I’m deeply concerned by your thought processes; believing that in this modern scientific era there could be a way to “prove” the existence of anyone’s “God”. If you’re going to “study” something, why not try something grounded in reality instead of more fairy tale nonsense?
Sploom:
Mmm.I have a friend who believes the moon landings were fake.Any time I see him,if the subject comes up,he would insist it is true and even show me what looks like convincing evidence but I dont believe it was faked.There would have to be too many people involved in the conspiracy for it to hold true,in my opinion.But then,Im not infallible on this,so it could,in theory at least,all be faked.
Now,who is enforcing their beliefs here?
Is it me? Or my friend?
How do you determine which one of us is enforcing his belief on the other?
If I can believe you are happy to accept that the moon landings were real, then Bravo! I have found a redeeming feature in you. Perhaps there could be hope that one day you will snap out of your belief in fairy tales? (That was a rhetorical question).
Here is why the moon landings were not faked: The Soviet Union were scrutinizing EVERYTHING the US did, all of the US telemetry could have been picked up by the soviet tracking stations, even amateur radio hams in the US were picking up Apollo radio signals, none of this was “encrypted”. If there had been even a sliver of evidence it was faked, the Russians would have announced it to the world because it would have meant they hadn’t lost The Space Race.
I think I have mentioned him before on this subject, but the most erudite spokesperson for the Semitic religions: Judaism/Christianity/Islam - Otherwise known as ‘The People Of The Book’, was a man I got to know in Saudi who did the God Slot on Saudi TV every night at about 17:30.
He fell foul of King Saud - not a very likable ruler - as a young man and escaped on foot across the Southern Desert to Yemen & eventually ended up studying in the Cairo Islamic University.
After the fall of Saud and the reign of Faisal, he returned & by the time I knew him he was the Public face of Islam on Saudi TV.
The way he described Christianity & Islam was much more in the vein of those such as Tony Benn rather than Donald Trump or the Southern Baptists.
He was clear that the ancient texts related to the situation as pertained at that time in history and should be seen as such, that the teachings of Mr. JH Christ & Mohammed were nothing to do with any Fictitious God Creature, but to do with social issues such as health and the common good.
I asked him once: “You have so many people listening to what you say, why don’t you tell them the truth” his reply was “If I did that how long do you think I would Last?? I do my best to educate them slowly, bit by bit for as long as I can”
Such a pity that the Southern USA Baptists & other Christian Cults still propagate their falsehoods that only serve to maintain the control of the Billionaire minorites who are sucking ever more wealth & health from the people of Planet Earth - where we all live.
Shame on you Sploom for not only falling for it - but trying to sell it to others.
You don’t have to wait for Judgement Day - you have been Judged & found Guilty of crimes against Humanity.
Fortunately for you, most of us don’t follow your Toxic system, so the worst punishment you will get is people telling you to p1ss off
ery child in quote.Robroy
I see forcing beliefs on your children,.especially illogical untrue preposterous beliefs as a form of child abuse.
In my case very mild and unintentional abuse, albeit with good intentions
.
Blimey,that was a carefully worded paragragh!
Looks like you dug a hole for yourself there 
Sploom:
ery child in quote.RobroyI see forcing beliefs on your children,.especially illogical untrue preposterous beliefs as a form of child abuse.
In my case very mild and unintentional abuse, albeit with good intentions
.
Blimey,that was a carefully worded paragragh!
Looks like you dug a hole for yourself there
Not sure what you mean… but I will try and explain my point .
The way this stuff was put to me as a kid, was non aggressive non forceful and certainly not as a priority over everything else.
In fact if I had been a strong willed child who had been against it,.I know my family well enough to know they would no longer push it.
Although it could be construed as a form of abuse…,.on a scale of 1 to 10, it is a decimal fraction less than one.
Where as in comparison to your case the way you have predictably brought your kids up.amongst all this stuff, and your attitude on it…, it hits about 11…imo.
Does that clarify.
So no hole dug after all eh?
Agree with you Rob.
In my case, it was definitely Child Abuse, not physical but I had almost no escape from it, all my parents friends, the church etc. And not allowed to do normal things like Saturday Kids cinema or anything ‘Normal’ kids did.
It even extended to my Grammar School where I was thrown out of every RE class - the teacher said “you come from a good Christian Home, why are you so disruptive”: Cos it was my only opportunity to fight back against the brainwashing & Christian abuse.
I never told my children that Father Christmas was real but the fact that others did.Im not suggesting this was abuse.You know,lets call a spade a spade.If you prepared to call the national childline about something,then ok,there is abuse going.Youre nit going to report someone for bringing their kids to Sunday school!
In that case I would have to accuse everyone of different faiths of abusing their children becayse they are teaching them something different to what I believe.
“The strongest words are always saved for the weakest arguments” so the saying goes so from now on can we stop using these dramatic words inappropriatley?
whisperingsmith:
Agree with you Rob.In my case, it was definitely Child Abuse, not physical but I had almost no escape from it, all my parents friends, the church etc. And not allowed to do normal things like Saturday Kids cinema or anything ‘Normal’ kids did.
It even extended to my Grammar School where I was thrown out of every RE class - the teacher said “you come from a good Christian Home, why are you so disruptive”: Cos it was my only opportunity to fight back against the brainwashing & Christian abuse.
Your parents probably didnt want hollywood having a say in how you were brought up.Lets face it,there are unsuitable things and ,dare I say it,brainwashing going on in even childrens movies.
whisperingsmith:
Agree with you Rob.
It even extended to my Grammar School where I was thrown out of every RE class - the teacher said “you come from a good Christian Home, why are you so disruptive”: Cos it was my only opportunity to fight back against the brainwashing & Christian abuse.
Similar thing happened to me - even in primary school, I was told to “be quiet” after asking such questions as “where did God get all the stuff to make the universe, and where was his workshop?” One that I remember getting detention for at Grammar School was “If God made man in his own image, what colour was he - and since it was supposed to be so long ago, was he a Neanderthal? And has the biology teacher been lying when he taught us about evolution and the origin of species?” After that, and other uncomfortable questions, I was also excluded from those lessons.
I still haven’t had any better explanation than the old stand-by “it is God working in mysterious ways…”
…because there isn’t one.
Sploom:
I never told my children that Father Christmas was real but the fact that others did.Im not suggesting this was abuse.You know,lets call a spade a spade.If you prepared to call the national childline about something,then ok,there is abuse going.Youre nit going to report someone for bringing their kids to Sunday school!
In that case I would have to accuse everyone of different faiths of abusing their children becayse they are teaching them something different to what I believe.
“The strongest words are always saved for the weakest arguments” so the saying goes so from now on can we stop using these dramatic words inappropriatley?
On the contrary I find those words wholly appropriate.
Telling your children a lot of untrue fantasy based cack to the level you do is literal abuse, of the psychological variety.
I find it astounding that you have thought nothing of constantly filling your poor kid’s heads with dangerous and corruptive crap,.thus setting them on their way to a miserable and restricted life compared to other kids, but that you found it wrong to tell them about something completely harmless and what would have brought them a lot of joy like…Santa Claus.
Absolutely un be ■■■■ liveable.
whisperingsmith:
Agree with you Rob.In my case, it was definitely Child Abuse, not physical but I had almost no escape from it, all my parents friends, the church etc. And not allowed to do normal things like Saturday Kids cinema or anything ‘Normal’ kids did.
It even extended to my Grammar School where I was thrown out of every RE class - the teacher said “you come from a good Christian Home, why are you so disruptive”: Cos it was my only opportunity to fight back against the brainwashing & Christian abuse.
I was brought up in a ‘normal’ type protestant family, nothing to the level of strict religious instruction that you apparentlly were.
It was not forced on me, more fed to me, I went to Sunday School from the age of 5, right up to early teens Bible classes,.confirmation classes,.and then confirmed…I have never taken communion as I had came to my senses by then, and did things my own way.
I did get married in church, but only to ‘please’ my Mam I suppose.
Like I said nothing was forced upon me,.I did have a good childhood and a good family.
Lucky you Rob.
But maybe you never experienced that incredible euphoria of being released from the Christian ■■■■■■■■■ And Abuse - Hell for Short.
At just 17 I was flown to Malta to join my first Ship as an officer cadet, although I was fairly well trained & accomplished with basic seafaring skills it was still a big step into the unknown.
Lucky for me, it was the newest & largest ship in the company and the Captain - A Galway Man - was also Commodore of the fleet.
Anyway, after breakfast on the first morning, I was wandering around the deck taking everything in when the Captain saw me and made his presence known.
He was what you would describe as an Irish Gentleman, portly, well groomed, master/god of his realm.
So here he comes towards me in his Tropical Uniform and confronts me with the words “Boy, we’ll have to teach you to Shagg1ng Well Drink”
not at all like the 4king Church - FREEDOM at last.
Whilst he did teach me to drink, so that I learnt to function efficiently regardless of any recreational influences - a great teacher, he taught me many other things that helped me, not only in my professional life at sea but also as a human being.
That first trip was 10 months, and not a bible or Christian to be seen - I had escaped from Hell to Heaven.
You keep your Hell Sploom - the rest of us will stay in Heaven.
You have it back to front Sploom your way is Hell and you know it - you have just been brainwashed into thinking it will be lovely when you die.
Wakey Wakey
Sploom:
Mmm.I have a friend who believes the moon landings were fake.Any time I see him,if the subject comes up,he would insist it is true and even show me what looks like convincing evidence but I dont believe it was faked.There would have to be too many people involved in the conspiracy for it to hold true,in my opinion.But then,Im not infallible on this,so it could,in theory at least,all be faked.
Now,who is enforcing their beliefs here?
Is it me? Or my friend?
How do you determine which one of us is enforcing his belief on the other?
Ironically I was never coerced into sending a letter of well wishes to NASA as a 10 year old child before the Moon mission.In fact my parents never even knew until receiving the reply in its official NASA envelope containing official souvenir photos and signed thanks from the previous Apollo 8 mission and crew.
I also don’t see any inconsistenc in that and then becoming sceptical about the whole thing as I got older and all the evidence against it grew over the years.On balance I think it was all probably faked for good motives of national defence.Whether questionable dodgy photography or the documented impossible Solar and Cosmic radiation hazards at that distance from Earth or the ability of a thin fabric suit to provide the required protection from the deep vacuum of space.
I’ve never faced any coercion regarding that change in view just like choosing or not choosing to believe in Christianity.
My friend believes the moonlandings were fake and sends me a video on whatapp,very convincing too.
I believe the moon landings were real so I send him a video back debunking,I think the word is.
Now,simple question!
Who is brainwashing who?
Me?
Or my friend?