90 hours rule is stupid

Harry Monk:

TheUncaringCowboy:
I win because I’m not a complete [zb] like you who can’t hold down a permanent job. Remind us all again how smart you are with a ‘red brick degree’ yet are only capable of being a temporary lorry driver.

Doing agency work doesn’t mean you can’t hold down a permanent job. I do agency work because I only work between September and March each year- in the Summer I go away travelling- and even in that time I need the freedom to be able to say “I’m available on Monday, Tuesday and Friday next week”. That wouldn’t work in a permanent job.

Of course, I don’t earn as much as a permanent employee- over the last three years I’ve averaged around £15,000 a year- but then again if you don’t have a mortgage or other heavy outgoings then you don’t need to max your earnings.

So you don’t “win”, you just have different needs and priorities.

You’d be keeping most all of that 15k of earnings though, - especially if you spend 183 days abroad on your travels each year… :wink:

Besides, there’s a school of thought that the driver who chooses to be agency over full time - “doesn’t want to be working during the long nights and lousy weather of the winter” - for the same money…

Winseer:
especially if you spend 183 days abroad on your travels each year…

I think you`ll find that the IR205 rules changed before Noah got his first pair of long trousers.

ETS:
Soon I will be as broke as robroy and will have to apply for council housing when my landlord kicks me out :grimacing: .

Whooaah! Just let’s rewind a bit here now :open_mouth:
After all the gobbing off about me from the resident trucknet smartarse looking down his bugle at me …you’ re telling me you are a tenant yourself?? :open_mouth: …ffs! :unamused: :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:
You’re the worst type of snob there is mate, ie… working class looking down on working class…tut tut.

I don’t t want to drop down to your level, (but if you would indulge me for a minute anyhow:D ) …I would bet that the house I live in, and the area it is situated in is far superior to your dodgy gaff me old mate, I thought at least you would have been the owner of a new build at least after all the verbal diarhea you’ve blown out your arse. :laughing:
Your insults are even more derisory now you have come clean, :smiley: …keep them up, you’re comedy gold mate. :laughing:

Sorry to everybody reading this, but I just had to pick him up on that gem. :sunglasses:

Meanwhile back to the 90 hours . :smiley:

Franglais:

Conor:
The average working week in the UK is 42hrs suggesting the majority of the population are doing less than that.

But of a leap of logic/mathematical propriety there?
So you have information, or are you making assumptions you aren’t sharing with us?

The 42hr figure is from ONS statistics. If you’re doing 12hr shifts in a factory you’re working 4/5 days a week so doing 48 or 60hrs. For the UK average to be 42hrs then there have to be a lot more people working under 48hrs than above.

TheUncaringCowboy:
I win because I’m not a complete [zb] like you who can’t hold down a permanent job. Remind us all again how smart you are with a ‘red brick degree’ yet are only capable of being a temporary lorry driver.

As you take such an interest in my life if you recall I left lorry driving in December 2017 to go work for a tech company after being offered the job in the interview in a role that involved putting systems together, designing components of that system, working with Windows and Linux installing and configuring bespoke software, writing and updating manuals for their systems, installing networking, working with SQL databases, doing on site installations of the systems and dealing with repairs including fault finding to component level. You’ll also recall the reasons why I went back to driving lorries after being there 10 months despite being given a 10% wage rise 6 months after starting.

You’ll recall that when I was forced to stop driving because of my disability in 2008 how I set up a business repairing and refurbishing ex-corporate/ex-govt high end laptops, selling throughout the entire EU, my business became a Microsoft Registered Refurbisher and I did that successfully for half a decade before deciding to go back to driving lorries.

I drive lorries because I choose to, not because I have to.

I don’t work full time because I choose not to. When I want to I do full weeks, when I don’t want to I don’t. If I don’t want to work at all in any given week I’m free to choose to not do it. I’m debt free and don’t need to earn loads of money and would rather work just what I have to to cover my bills and chuck another £4k or £5k a year into my savings/pension whilst maximising my leisure time. I don’t want to get to the weekend knackered from a 60+hr week and thinking I’ve got just 48hrs when I’m feeling too knackered to do anything to try to enjoy the money I’ve earned before I go back to the slog. Because the days I’m at work I’m there because I want to be, not because like you I have to be, every day for me at work is a happy day. I’m not sat there like you miserable as hell think you’ve got another 4 days to go before the weekend. If I get up on Tuesday and decide I don’t want to work on Wednesday I just send the agency a text saying I’m not available.

Conor:

TheUncaringCowboy:
I win because I’m not a complete [zb] like you who can’t hold down a permanent job. Remind us all again how smart you are with a ‘red brick degree’ yet are only capable of being a temporary lorry driver.

As you take such an interest in my life if you recall I left lorry driving in December 2017 to go work for a tech company after being offered the job in the interview in a role that involved putting systems together, designing components of that system, working with Windows and Linux installing and configuring bespoke software, writing and updating manuals for their systems, installing networking, working with SQL databases, doing on site installations of the systems and dealing with repairs including fault finding to component level. You’ll also recall the reasons why I went back to driving lorries after being there 10 months despite being given a 10% wage rise 6 months after starting.

You’ll recall that when I was forced to stop driving because of my disability in 2008 how I set up a business repairing and refurbishing ex-corporate/ex-govt high end laptops, selling throughout the entire EU, my business became a Microsoft Registered Refurbisher and I did that successfully for half a decade before deciding to go back to driving lorries.

I drive lorries because I choose to, not because I have to.

I don’t work full time because I choose not to. When I want to I do full weeks, when I don’t want to I don’t. If I don’t want to work at all in any given week I’m free to choose to not do it. I’m debt free and don’t need to earn loads of money and would rather work just what I have to to cover my bills and chuck another £4k or £5k a year into my savings/pension whilst maximising my leisure time. I don’t want to get to the weekend knackered from a 60+hr week and thinking I’ve got just 48hrs when I’m feeling too knackered to do anything to try to enjoy the money I’ve earned before I go back to the slog. Because the days I’m at work I’m there because I want to be, not because like you I have to be, every day for me at work is a happy day. I’m not sat there like you miserable as hell think you’ve got another 4 days to go before the weekend. If I get up on Tuesday and decide I don’t want to work on Wednesday I just send the agency a text saying I’m not available.

So with your super degree you deleted ■■■■ off of folks laptops then when you couldn’t cut it at that you went back to being unable to gain full time employment driving lorries.
I know guys with the ink still wet on their licences who’s boots you couldn’t lace. :laughing:

Coming on here telling everyone how amazing you are and how they are all stupid really shows that everyday is a happy day for you :laughing:

But if that’s what helps you sleep at night, crack on princess.

Conor:

Franglais:

Conor:
The average working week in the UK is 42hrs suggesting the majority of the population are doing less than that.

But of a leap of logic/mathematical propriety there?
So you have information, or are you making assumptions you aren’t sharing with us?

The 42hr figure is from ONS statistics. If you’re doing 12hr shifts in a factory you’re working 4/5 days a week so doing 48 or 60hrs. For the UK average to be 42hrs then there have to be a lot more people working under 48hrs than above.

The 42hr ONS figure I find easy to accept.
I dont think the same of the "12hr shifts 4/5 days a week". I can see you appear to be responding to "idrive"s post, but it isnt reasonable to equate the accuracy of his figures with those of the ONS is it? (No offence to idrives honesty) Nor is it correct to manipulate two different data sets together. "ONS UK employment survey" vs "people idrive talks to", doesnt cut it for me.

Franglais:

Conor:

Franglais:

Conor:
The average working week in the UK is 42hrs suggesting the majority of the population are doing less than that.

But of a leap of logic/mathematical propriety there?
So you have information, or are you making assumptions you aren’t sharing with us?

The 42hr figure is from ONS statistics. If you’re doing 12hr shifts in a factory you’re working 4/5 days a week so doing 48 or 60hrs. For the UK average to be 42hrs then there have to be a lot more people working under 48hrs than above.

The 42hr ONS figure I find easy to accept.
I dont think the same of the "12hr shifts 4/5 days a week". I can see you appear to be responding to "idrive"s post, but it isnt reasonable to equate the accuracy of his figures with those of the ONS is it? (No offence to idrives honesty) Nor is it correct to manipulate two different data sets together. "ONS UK employment survey" vs "people idrive talks to", doesnt cut it for me.

The original point was that many people in jobs other than trucking, work just as long shifts, in less attractive jobs, for less money (per hour and take-home), and many of them actually are envious (rightly or wrongly) that that we get the opportunity to work longer hours and take home more money.

Conor is oblivious to actual facts like these and prefers to parrot the same word-salad, again and again, about his life experience which appears to consist of being able to install windows on a laptop, once spending a night in a premier Inn, and 25 years on agency.

I really do admire people like Conor that truly do think they’re something else. I wish I had the confidence to tell everybody how brilliant I am but I just don’t have it. I’m just an average joe that drives a truck. I wish I was a computer mastermind that could command a 6 figure salary. I would never set foot inside a truck cab again but sadly I’m not so truck driving for a 5 figure salary it is.

nomiS36:
I really do admire people like Conor that truly do think they’re something else. I wish I had the confidence to tell everybody how brilliant I am but I just don’t have it.
.

I have…I’m brilliant. :sunglasses: :laughing:

Good for you [emoji23]

robroy:

nomiS36:
I really do admire people like Conor that truly do think they’re something else. I wish I had the confidence to tell everybody how brilliant I am but I just don’t have it.
.

I have…I’m brilliant. :sunglasses: :laughing:

…at keeping my wallet closed " :laughing:

nomiS36:
I really do admire people like Conor that truly do think they’re something else.

I’m just an average joe that drives a truck. I wish I was a computer mastermind that could command a 6 figure salary. I would never set foot inside a truck cab again but sadly I’m not so truck driving for a 5 figure salary it is.

I didn’t think I was anything special, I just have the attitude that with enough time and effort there’s very little people can’t achieve. I assumed that most lorry drivers could do more than one thing especially as a lot of agency drivers I speak to where I work had non-HGV driving careers in the past. In addition to the obligatory firefighters doing lorry driving on agency on their downtime I’ve also met quite a few teachers who do lorry driving in the holidays for a bit of extra cash and there’s several on here who have also gone to university.

Maybe I was wrong, maybe I was massively underestimating the number of lorry drivers who are truly one trick ponies and that truly believe lorry driving really is the limit of their abilities. It’s a bit of a sad state of affairs if that is the case. But if that’s how you think of yourself and want to stick with the easy option then that’s fine but don’t have a go at me just because I’m willing to learn new things and take a chance on doing something.

Conor:

nomiS36:
I really do admire people like Conor that truly do think they’re something else.

I’m just an average joe that drives a truck. I wish I was a computer mastermind that could command a 6 figure salary. I would never set foot inside a truck cab again but sadly I’m not so truck driving for a 5 figure salary it is.

I didn’t think I was anything special, I just have the attitude that with enough time and effort there’s very little people can’t achieve. I assumed that most lorry drivers could do more than one thing especially as a lot of agency drivers I speak to where I work had non-HGV driving careers in the past. In addition to the obligatory firefighters doing lorry driving on agency on their downtime I’ve also met quite a few teachers who do lorry driving in the holidays for a bit of extra cash and there’s several on here who have also gone to university.

Maybe I was wrong, maybe I was massively underestimating the number of lorry drivers who are truly one trick ponies and that truly believe lorry driving really is the limit of their abilities. It’s a bit of a sad state of affairs if that is the case. But if that’s how you think of yourself and want to stick with the easy option then that’s fine but don’t have a go at me just because I’m willing to learn new things and take a chance on doing something.

It just goes to show you the state of the country if you have teachers and firemen working on the side driving trucks to earn extra money
I dread to think what they earn in their full time job
Now it could be just hungry people who never have enough, and I’m sure there are many many people driving trucks who have a trade or lots of experience in other fields
A fridge engineer comes to mind

nightline:
It just goes to show you the state of the country if you have teachers and firemen working on the side driving trucks to earn extra money
I dread to think what they earn in their full time job

And you have truck drives who work as uber drivers and amazon flex delivery drivers on the weekends to make ends meet. Not me of course - no no no, others do.

ETS:

nightline:
It just goes to show you the state of the country if you have teachers and firemen working on the side driving trucks to earn extra money
I dread to think what they earn in their full time job

And you have truck drives who work as uber drivers and amazon flex delivery drivers on the weekends to make ends meet. Not me of course - no no no, others do.

Do you still support more working hours rather than higher hourly rates, though?

We’ve reached this point because every time the bosses bend us over on hourly rates, some seem to respond by demanding more hours of being bent over, rather than the dignity of standing up straight with an adequate hourly rate.

Rjan:
Do you still support more working hours rather than higher hourly rates, though?

We’ve reached this point because every time the bosses bend us over on hourly rates, some seem to respond by demanding more hours of being bent over, rather than the dignity of standing up straight with an adequate hourly rate.

I never said I support more hours, regarding this very topic I was lamenting the fact that you can’t extend your weekly driving hours one week at the expense of the next one like reducing your weekly rest one week doesn’t mean you’ll do more hours/shifts overall, only that you’ll have to do less hours/shifts the week after.

You’ll never have adequate hourly rates as long as drivers’ time is wasted waiting in a queue to be loaded/unloaded or walking around searching for that vague address 20 times a day. Look at some of the posts here, people complaining about 12/15 hour shifts while they can’t even come close to 45 hours driven in a week. Low productivity = low wages. You can’t spend 50% of your time doing nothing and demand £20 per hour none the less. Well you can but not as a driver

One way is to create artificial shortage by racking up training costs / increase medical criteria / add some other arbitrary requirements, other than that it’s a dying profession and if rates were to go higher this would only serve as a further incentive to speed up the implementation of autonomous trucks

Low pay rates and down time have been mentioned…
There has always been a lot of time wasted in this job since time immemorial, queuing, waiting to get tipped/loaded, and incompetent planning just goes on to exacerbate this. It as always been the nature of the job and always will be.

Time was when firms factored this into their rates that THEY put in, where as nowadays 9 times out of 10 those rates are given to hauliers by their customers on a take it or leave it basis, then competition goes on to cut it to the bone even further, by firms all fighting for the same work.
I’m fully aware that is how competition in business works, but the method of rate shortfall absorption always seems to be achieved by keeping drivers wages to a lower rate than what they should be, while all the money wasted on the management side of things, such as the creation of ’ non jobs’, renewal of over specced co cars, and inflated management wages are all conveniently ignored.

How many times do you hear the words '‘The price of xxxxx will go up if drivers wages increase’…so tough ■■■■, why should I and the rest of us have to subsidise high prices etc.

So basically the whole cluster ■■■■ of all that combined with drivers fighting for more hours to compensate for their low hourly rate just goes on to maintain the whole crock of ■■■■ that is the transport/haulage industry that has evolved to date over the years.

the only part of this thread that i dont believe is how people can be knakkered after working for 60 hours a week doing lorry driving when a large part of it will be sitting around tipping/loading/waiting on ferries or in a queue somewhere.
it might be great to finish your working week for a few days off,but unless your handballing trailers day in and out,then bored senseless mabey,but not exactly knakkered compared to manual labour jobs.
if your in a job that you dont get paid overtime for actually doing overtime,then more fool you.

ETS:

Rjan:
Do you still support more working hours rather than higher hourly rates, though?

We’ve reached this point because every time the bosses bend us over on hourly rates, some seem to respond by demanding more hours of being bent over, rather than the dignity of standing up straight with an adequate hourly rate.

I never said I support more hours, regarding this very topic I was lamenting the fact that you can’t extend your weekly driving hours one week at the expense of the next one like reducing your weekly rest one week doesn’t mean you’ll do more hours/shifts overall, only that you’ll have to do less hours/shifts the week after.

Agreed on that point.

You’ll never have adequate hourly rates as long as drivers’ time is wasted waiting in a queue to be loaded/unloaded or walking around searching for that vague address 20 times a day. Look at some of the posts here, people complaining about 12/15 hour shifts while they can’t even come close to 45 hours driven in a week. Low productivity = low wages. You can’t spend 50% of your time doing nothing and demand £20 per hour none the less. Well you can but not as a driver

But part of the reason why the bosses will waste your time in queues, is because you will tolerate long hours and low rates whilst doing it.

When waiting causes howls of anguish in the payroll department, suddenly there is impetus to invest in better (or more) equipment and staff, to eliminate unreasonable waits and get work done like clockwork. We then suddenly acquire the productivity which justifies the levels to which our wages have been forced.

One way is to create artificial shortage by racking up training costs / increase medical criteria / add some other arbitrary requirements, other than that it’s a dying profession and if rates were to go higher this would only serve as a further incentive to speed up the implementation of autonomous trucks

That’s great. Once we have re-secured redundancy terms and pensions in our work, that means a large payout or early retirement.

The reality, as I’ve talked about on other occasions, is that autonomy on British roads is some way off.

But do you really want to spend your days down in the dirt, buying your way into a job that doesn’t really need doing? If the bosses can automate your job, they’ll generally treat you like dirt and drive your pay to nothing anyway, and they’ll often automate anyway in the end, because you’re doing nothing more than an inanimate machine can do.

When machines can do almost everything, then workers will either have to move to doing what machines can’t do (such as designing themselves, maintaining themselves, and applying themselves to a human purpose), or ensure that they have access to the fruits of the machine which it produces for free.

This is why the Labour party is talking about forcing up wages whilst forcing down working hours, and investigating a universal basic income, to ensure that any mechanisation and automation which does occur is captured as a benefit to workers, rather than being captured by bosses as super-profits and causing higher unemployment and competition for fewer jobs with unnecessarily long hours.