Roymondo:
In other words, if you’re not sure, why not just assume the lower limit until you ARE sure? Adds seconds to your journey time…
That obviously means 20 mph everywhere unless an NSL sign and repeaters say otherwise.They obviously aren’t keen on advertising any specific limit with precisely that intention to grind the road system to a halt.
Or look down a side road? For instance if you’re on a 30mph road but aren’t sure, have a look at a side road. If there’s no signs there’s no speed limit change therefore you know you’re in a 30 as a side road is only ever going to stay at 30 or more than likely nowadays drop to 20, in which case there will be a sign that says 20 to inform of the change in limit.
Isnt this like basic knowledge?
How does a side road marked as NSL or not marked at all tell you whether you’re in a 40 or a 30 or even an NSL.
Roymondo:
I really do sometimes wonder if some of the participants here actually have driving licences (and if they do, how they got them).
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From memory, the look at a side road and if there’s no sign it obviously means no change from the same limit which you’re not sure about on the road you’re on, is an advanced’ police driver method of confirming the limit which you don’t know because there’s no sign.So a bit like brakes to slow gears to go.
So is the A25 example there 30 mph, 40 mph or NSL ? by the no sign and no street lighting rule.
Roadcraft indeed.
Have to assume any speed limits if they were posted on lamp posts would I.
Stop bailing out a sinking ship or tell me why the signs were taken down?
Even CF has got the point.
Lamp posts don’t denote the speed limit.They just light the street or motorway or dual carriageway with limits varying from 20mph to NSL.Signage denotes the speed limit obviously including motorway variable limits.
Insufficient signage is/should be fair grounds for mitigation and defence.
“National speed limits
A speed limit of 30 miles per hour (48km/h) applies to all single and dual carriageways with street lights, unless there are signs showing otherwise.” gov.uk/speed-limits#:~:text … 0otherwise.
Have to assume any speed limits if they were posted on lamp posts would I.
Stop bailing out a sinking ship or tell me why the signs were taken down?
Even CF has got the point.
Lamp posts don’t denote the speed limit.They just light the street or motorway or dual carriageway with limits varying from 20mph to NSL.Signage denotes the speed limit obviously including motorway variable limits.
Insufficient signage is/should be fair grounds for mitigation and defence.
“National speed limits
A speed limit of 30 miles per hour (48km/h) applies to all single and dual carriageways with street lights, unless there are signs showing otherwise.” gov.uk/speed-limits#:~:text … 0otherwise.
We’re clearly discussing roads with or without streetlights which could be confused as having a higher limit without having clear 30mph signage.Some of those roads having been reduced to 30mph from 40 or even NSL.
Lack of limit repeater signage also being an issue on unlit roads.
The street light rule is an archaic obsolete irrelevance in this draconian and continuously varying and often innappropriate and counter intuitive speed regime.
The only reason to avoid the use of clear limit repeaters is to deliberately criminalise drivers.
Just like traffic light cameras rather than using the technology to hold the light at green.
Especially if it’s supposedly all about safety not nicking people.
Roymondo:
I really do sometimes wonder if some of the participants here actually have driving licences (and if they do, how they got them).
Sent from my VOG-L09 using Tapatalk
From memory, the look at a side road and if there’s no sign it obviously means no change from the same limit which you’re not sure about on the road you’re on, is an advanced’ police driver method of confirming the limit which you don’t know because there’s no sign.So a bit like brakes to slow gears to go.
So is the A25 example there 30 mph, 40 mph or NSL ? by the no sign and no street lighting rule.
Roadcraft indeed.
There’s repeater signs on the A25 either side of the junction (albeit some way from the junction) you posted telling you it’s a 40mph limit on that stretch.
Roymondo:
I really do sometimes wonder if some of the participants here actually have driving licences (and if they do, how they got them).
Sent from my VOG-L09 using Tapatalk
From memory, the look at a side road and if there’s no sign it obviously means no change from the same limit which you’re not sure about on the road you’re on, is an advanced’ police driver method of confirming the limit which you don’t know because there’s no sign.So a bit like brakes to slow gears to go.
So is the A25 example there 30 mph, 40 mph or NSL ? by the no sign and no street lighting rule.
Roadcraft indeed.
There’s repeater signs on the A25 either side of the junction (albeit some way from the junction) you posted telling you it’s a 40mph limit on that stretch.
Calling insufficient speed limit signage obviously isn’t the same thing as saying there is none at all.Surrey being better than many other areas which combine deliberately vague non existent signage with strategically placed cameras to entrap motorists.The point is all with inappropriate counter intuitive limits which needs equally counter intuitive heavily repeating limit information.
toonsy:
It’s been done to reduce cluttering, ordered by the DfT a couple of year ago.
Thank you…
For the link. It is a million pages so I fell asleep after page 11.
I agree, decluttering road signs is a good idea. Nothing more confusing than a plethora of road signs jostling for your attention at a busy junction. But, small repeater signs, nah.
toonsy:
It’s been done to reduce cluttering, ordered by the DfT a couple of year ago.
Thank you…
For the link. It is a million pages so I fell asleep after page 11.
I agree, decluttering road signs is a good idea. Nothing more confusing than a plethora of road signs jostling for your attention at a busy junction. But, small repeater signs, nah.
If it’s supposedly all about road safety then surely they’d want to make 30 or 20 mph or anything less than NSL sections of road clear on a continuous rolling basis.Also why do some speed cameras have clear limit confirmation stuck on the back of them but others don’t.
Street lights supposedly denoting 30 limits is as stupid as the idea of no street lights means NSL unless signed otherwise.
Carryfast:
If it’s supposedly all about road safety then surely they’d want to make 30 or 20 mph or anything less than NSL sections of road clear on a continuous rolling basis.Also why do some speed cameras have clear limit confirmation stuck on the back of them but others don’t.
Street lights supposedly denoting 30 limits is as stupid as the idea of no street lights means NSL unless signed otherwise.
I’m going to regret this, contradicting Currywurst, but stuff it.
Street lights, ie in Britain, lampposts, have long been a guide to the speed limit on a stretch of road, in a built-up area.
If the lampposts are more than a certain distance apart, the speed limit for that stretch of road is 40 or 50.
If the lampposts are less than a certain distance apart, the speed limit for that stretch of road is 30.
Now that 20 is a thing in residential areas, the lampposts will still be the same distance apart as in a 30 zone.
I can’t remember what that certain distance is and I’m not going to hazard a guess. If you want to know so you are certain, look it up.
The difference is obvious. In a 40 zone, there are darker areas between lampposts. Not pitch black, but not brightly lit.
In a 30 (or 20) zone, the lit areas overlap so there are no dark areas.
The street lights DO NOTdenote the speed limit and never have, they are a guide to a driver who missed the actual speed limit sign for whatever reason. In a 40 or 50 zone, there will be the small reminder signs mounted on lampposts at regular intervals, the signs may be widely spaced but they will be there.
Just to remind you. The NSL in a built-up area is 30, unless signed otherwise. There should be no need to keep on reminding you, if you are in a built-up area the limit is 30**.**
They do you the courtesy of reminding you of a higher limit in a built-up area.
For those who only venture north of the border occasionally, be aware Scottish police do not offer speed awareness courses - ever, and their single carriageway limit is still 40mph.
Zac_A:
For those who only venture north of the border occasionally, be aware Scottish police do not offer speed awareness courses - ever, and their single carriageway limit is still 40mph.
I get it. Certain roads , certain distances , certain speeds yadder yadder yadder. It’s the same as the instructors on the course.
But, it’s hard not to agree with soccermum94 and others, if the limit is clearly posted there’s no confusion at all.
Great debate about the village signs (30 limits), perhaps more relevant about 35 in a 30.
Remember the recent new law about causing serious injury by careless yrs prison.
35 in a 30 is enough, when they want to, is proof of careless driving.
yourhavingalarf:
Some lamp posts placed at a certain distance apart with small speed limit signs the size of a dinner plate informing drivers of the speed limit?
Which is what they do, in a raised limit of 40 or 50.
If you’re in a built-up area, the limit is 30. No need to post reminder signs. No reminder signs = 30.
In Germany they don’t even bother posting the 30* limit.
You drive past a yellow rectangular sign with the town/village name on it. You have entered a built-up area, therefore the limit is 30*.
Leaving a built-up area is denoted by the same yellow sign with a red diagonal bar through it.
( * Well it’s actually 50kmh, but I didn’t want to confuse the issue, numbers appear to be a problem).
Carryfast:
If it’s supposedly all about road safety then surely they’d want to make 30 or 20 mph or anything less than NSL sections of road clear on a continuous rolling basis.Also why do some speed cameras have clear limit confirmation stuck on the back of them but others don’t.
Street lights supposedly denoting 30 limits is as stupid as the idea of no street lights means NSL unless signed otherwise.
I’m going to regret this, contradicting Currywurst, but stuff it.
Street lights, ie in Britain, lampposts, have long been a guide to the speed limit on a stretch of road, in a built-up area.
If the lampposts are more than a certain distance apart, the speed limit for that stretch of road is 40 or 50.
If the lampposts are less than a certain distance apart, the speed limit for that stretch of road is 30.
Now that 20 is a thing in residential areas, the lampposts will still be the same distance apart as in a 30 zone.
I can’t remember what that certain distance is and I’m not going to hazard a guess. If you want to know so you are certain, look it up.
The difference is obvious. In a 40 zone, there are darker areas between lampposts. Not pitch black, but not brightly lit.
In a 30 (or 20) zone, the lit areas overlap so there are no dark areas.
The street lights DO NOTdenote the speed limit and never have, they are a guide to a driver who missed the actual speed limit sign for whatever reason. In a 40 or 50 zone, there will be the small reminder signs mounted on lampposts at regular intervals, the signs may be widely spaced but they will be there.
Just to remind you. The NSL in a built-up area is 30, unless signed otherwise. There should be no need to keep on reminding you, if you are in a built-up area the limit is 30**.**
They do you the courtesy of reminding you of a higher limit in a built-up area.
Your lampost theory doesn’t seem work so well on a bright sunny day.
While the idea that the speed limit posted on a side road tells you the exact limit of the road you’re actually on makes as much sense as stopping to measure the distance between lamposts to determine whether it’s 30 mph or which could still be anything between 20 mph or NSL which of course requires …signs to know for sure.Bearing in mind that even NSL roads can be reduced to 30mph virtually one day to the next.
What’s the big problem with placing plenty of small cheap repeaters in that regard.
Unless, like traffic light cameras, the plan is to entrap drivers for the resulting fine revenues and to reduce traffic by removing licences by stealth.
