waddy640:
We all have a duty to look after ourselves and other roadusers. Some people seem to forget this, like cyclists that refuse to use cycle paths and ride on main roads without lights. Pedestrians that walk on roads after dark wearing dark clothing.
I’m going to turn the above on it’s head a bit…
Professional drivers also know this which is why they should be a lot more aware than the ‘average’ motorist - yes■■?
ROG:
waddy640:
We all have a duty to look after ourselves and other roadusers. Some people seem to forget this, like cyclists that refuse to use cycle paths and ride on main roads without lights. Pedestrians that walk on roads after dark wearing dark clothing.I’m going to turn the above on it’s head a bit…
Professional drivers also know this which is why they should be a lot more aware than the ‘average’ motorist - yes■■?
No, no, and thrice nay !!
The ‘average’ motorist has taken the same test as I have - specific to vehicle type.
I think the lorry driver was mostly at fault in that situation. He either didn’t look or didn’t see you.
Personally I hate cyclists. I had one under the front of the lorry a couple of years ago. He tried to undertake me while I was turning left. And yes I was siganaling and everything, I had three witnesses to prove this. It shook me up badly and I had to have a week off work unpaid. The pious idiot then called my firm and wanted money for a new bike. They told him to not be so stupid. I should have taken him to court but just wanted to forget about it. The problem with you lot Magnatom is you can’t see how vunarable you are and just ride along like you’re in the tour de france. You’re on a public road that you share with us. We have limited visibility and you should take this into account and slow down.
jessicas dad:
firstly i totally agree with magnatom.i know i am and most of us on these forums are fully qualified hgv/lgv drivers. now i was taught during my training beware of cyclists always expect the unexpected. now if i was the tanker driver at no time would i have pulled out on the cyclist dont matter who’s at the line first, always give way to the cyclist, and thats just my attitude to get the {zb’s} away from me.
if magnatom has a camera on his helmet then good for him if it highlights bad driving.
as for joeg or whatever his name is, the only time i see you post is when a cyclist is mentioned and suddenly you as always jump on your high horse, dont start having a go at magnatom on this forum bringing over your crap from other boards.
thank you magnatom on coming on here to give your side.
Thanks JD for the welcome, although I’d rather wish I was visiting under better circumstances!
I try to be fair with my videoing. If you have the time to look (and it would need to be a fair amount of time!) you will see that I post my own mistakes as well. I think it would be very hypocritical of me if I didn’t. However, what this tanker driver did was far beyond a simple mistake and had my braking been a little less efficient… 
. I’m glad I upgraded my brake pads the week before!
Who knows I might even be back on here asking for a favour. Myself and a few other cyclists have an idea for a film about cyclist/HGV interactions, especially the situation where a cyclists filters up the left, or a HGV comes up on the right at a junction with a left turn (left hook). It would be aimed at both cyclists and HGV drivers, so any advice etc would be helpful, and if it could be made as a collaboration between us, even better. Watch this space…
(p.s this was being planned long before my incident)
john_london:
I think the lorry driver was mostly at fault in that situation. He either didn’t look or didn’t see you.Personally I hate cyclists. I had one under the front of the lorry a couple of years ago. He tried to undertake me while I was turning left. And yes I was siganaling and everything, I had three witnesses to prove this. It shook me up badly and I had to have a week off work unpaid. The pious idiot then called my firm and wanted money for a new bike. They told him to not be so stupid. I should have taken him to court but just wanted to forget about it. The problem with you lot Magnatom is you can’t see how vunarable you are and just ride along like you’re in the tour de france. You’re on a public road that you share with us. We have limited visibility and you should take this into account and slow down.
Personally I hate HGV drivers. One nearly killed me the other day. They are all idiots…blah, blah, blah.
Of course this isn’t true. The HGV driver in the video is not representative of HGV drivers, in exactly the same way the cyclist you had your incident is in no way representative of cyclists. So there is no, ‘you lot’. There are some excellent cyclists, and there are some right numpties. Just the same is true for every group of road users. When it comes to different groups of road users there shouldn’t be an us and them, we are all road users and all deserve respect.
I do take visibility into account with HGV and I NEVER filter down the left of HGVs (except on dual carrigaways when the HGV is in te outside lane and both lanes are stationary, and my view ahead is good). Have a look at my videos i’m sure I have one where I comment on a cyclist undertaking an HGV.
So please don’t hate cyclists. There are good as well as bad. Hate bad road users.
Well being as I’m a bit lazy I didn’t read through all this thread, but I will give my feelings on the video, first of all, there is no doubt in my mind that it was entirely the Tanker driver who was in the wrong, no matter what the bike rider did, or didn’t do, if the truck had given way as it was meant to the situation wouldn’t have arisen.
However, there is a problem on our roads with motor vehicle drivers failing to notice motor cycles and push bikes, and unfortunately the results often involve trauma of some kind.
So, what is the solution? Compulsory yellow vests? air horns fitted to bikes? no overtaking or undertaking allowed by bikes? or just get them away from the roads? I would have said educate drivers, but we all know that doesn’t work as there have been campaigns since the 60’s at least and it hasn’t improved,
The fact is roads today are very dangerous places and bikes are never going to be safe on them, so the realistic answer is to get bikes off the roads, or live with the fact that bike riders are going to keep getting injured or killed. It doesn’t matter that the driver will be at fault, it is the bike rider who pays the price, you buy a bike you make the choice.
This is a really important point for those of us who don’t want to kill/be killed.
The only completely foolproof solution to the “motor vehicle versus pushbike” question would be total segregation, but as motor vehicles will not be leaving the roads even after oil runs out, this ain’t gonna happen (bikes came first, although horses and carts beat them, not that that’s relevant). The next best, IMO, is the previously-touted education or experience of the other side’s issues for those who have e.g. never been in a big lorry or ridden a motorbike, if only this experience were remembered at all times instead of being forgotten at times of stress, fatigue, hurry etc. - we are only human. We have to try to allow for other’s mistakes.
I wish drivers would indicate (properly) on roundabouts - too lazy, literally, to raise a finger, but they would do if you annoyed them! But it’s when others do something apparently willfully really stupid and then not care which really gets my goat.
Yes there is a danger out on the roads for all of us, some forms of transport more than others, some forms of people more than others, traffic accidents being the major cause of death for people between the ages of 4 and 40 AFAIK and it would be rash to use a bike in certain situations but does anyone think there aren’t enough cars on the road? Building new, better roads only encourages more traffic and does not solve the problem. Risky as it sometimes is, I think cycling should be encouraged to reduce congestion/pollution etc. but people are never going to leave their cars.
jimti:
Well being as I’m a bit lazy I didn’t read through all this thread, but I will give my feelings on the video, first of all, there is no doubt in my mind that it was entirely the Tanker driver who was in the wrong, no matter what the bike rider did, or didn’t do, if the truck had given way as it was meant to the situation wouldn’t have arisen.However, there is a problem on our roads with motor vehicle drivers failing to notice motor cycles and push bikes, and unfortunately the results often involve trauma of some kind.
So, what is the solution? Compulsory yellow vests? air horns fitted to bikes? no overtaking or undertaking allowed by bikes? or just get them away from the roads? I would have said educate drivers, but we all know that doesn’t work as there have been campaigns since the 60’s at least and it hasn’t improved,
The fact is roads today are very dangerous places and bikes are never going to be safe on them, so the realistic answer is to get bikes off the roads, or live with the fact that bike riders are going to keep getting injured or killed. It doesn’t matter that the driver will be at fault, it is the bike rider who pays the price, you buy a bike you make the choice.
Funnily enough, the answer is not to reduce the amount of cyclists on the roads. Quite the oppposite. There has been a research done that suggests that the roads get safer, for everyone, not just cyclists, if there are more cyclists on the roads. If you think about this it makes sense. The more cyclists on the roads, the more that drivers are looking out for them, and the more used to them drivers become. As well as that maximum speeds on certain routes drop due to the presence of cyclists (although, interestingly average speeds don’t change significantly), and thus general accident rates reduce. I don’t have the references for this at the moment, but the CTC, the cyclists represetative group, are running a campaign based on this idea.
It should also be pointed out that despite accidents etc, on average cyclists live 2 years longer and apparently look 10 years younger! 
Looking at accident stats cycling is actually safer per unit distance covered than walking.
So I completely disagree that there should be fewer cyclists on the road, there should be more. Yes I made a choice to buy and use a bike. As a result I am fitter, healthier and despite the odd set back, much happier. I get to work refreshed, and stress free. I hate the days I have to drive.
I would like to recommend riding a bike to work. I realize that this is not possible for everyone but if you live a few miles from your yard then give it a go in the better weather. You may enjoy it and it wont take much longer than driving also its a lot cheaper.
magnatom:
jimti:
Well being as I’m a bit lazy I didn’t read through all this thread, but I will give my feelings on the video, first of all, there is no doubt in my mind that it was entirely the Tanker driver who was in the wrong, no matter what the bike rider did, or didn’t do, if the truck had given way as it was meant to the situation wouldn’t have arisen.However, there is a problem on our roads with motor vehicle drivers failing to notice motor cycles and push bikes, and unfortunately the results often involve trauma of some kind.
So, what is the solution? Compulsory yellow vests? air horns fitted to bikes? no overtaking or undertaking allowed by bikes? or just get them away from the roads? I would have said educate drivers, but we all know that doesn’t work as there have been campaigns since the 60’s at least and it hasn’t improved,
The fact is roads today are very dangerous places and bikes are never going to be safe on them, so the realistic answer is to get bikes off the roads, or live with the fact that bike riders are going to keep getting injured or killed. It doesn’t matter that the driver will be at fault, it is the bike rider who pays the price, you buy a bike you make the choice.Safety in numbers.
I must admit that when riding a bike it is the muppets in cars that cause most problems.
Funnily enough, the answer is not to reduce the amount of cyclists on the roads. Quite the oppposite. There has been a research done that suggests that the roads get safer, for everyone, not just cyclists, if there are more cyclists on the roads. If you think about this it makes sense. The more cyclists on the roads, the more that drivers are looking out for them, and the more used to them drivers become. As well as that maximum speeds on certain routes drop due to the presence of cyclists (although, interestingly average speeds don’t change significantly), and thus general accident rates reduce. I don’t have the references for this at the moment, but the CTC, the cyclists represetative group, are running a campaign based on this idea.
It should also be pointed out that despite accidents etc, on average cyclists live 2 years longer and apparently look 10 years younger!
So I completely disagree that there should be fewer cyclists on the road, there should be more. Yes I made a choice to buy and use a bike. As a result I am fitter, healthier and despite the odd set back, much happier. I get to work refreshed, and stress free. I hate the days I have to drive.
DAF95XF:
magnatom:
As for getting a driver sacked. You are, as always completely misinformed. I have never had a driver sacked. This was a lie that was spread by a bus driver who took a particular dislike to cyclists and myself in particular. I confirmed that no driver was sacked by contacting the company in question (First Buses). First actually were pleased that I pointed out some bad driving by one of their drivers (who had a warning only) and as a result the company took part in a ‘Give Cylists Room’ campaign with me.And I remember the crap you caused on THAT bus drivers forum
Hi Magnatom and welcome to trucknet.
I also remember all the crap going on on THAT bus drivers forum and must admit that there was a lot of crap going on…and yes you did get a bit of the rough end of the stick there…
However, you did tend to be a tad overzealous at times.
Yes there are some bad drivers out there but also please remember that we drivers may sometimes “make a mistake” Please consider this before you go running off to our employers bleating about dangerous driving.
Perhaps someone can arrange a wee trip in an artic for you and point out some of the blind spots (Daf 95 mirrors for example that can easily “lose” a small car, let alone a cyclist)
all I’m saying is please don’ jump in with both feet straight away then we can all get on fine
Being very bored I’ve just sat and trawled through the whole thread, and come up with a couple of thoughts.
Hi-viz clothing should be compulsory for cyclists, although even if it was I wouldn’t hold my breath waiting for the police to be able to enforce it.
Traffic on a roundabout has right of way, not traffic approaching the roundabout at speed that will have right of way when it gets there. That’s not a criticism of the cyclist in this video, just an observation of people’s approach speeds in general.
Just as a HGV driver will give a cyclist room on the basis of “the crazy ■■■■ might do anything” so the cyclist in this instance should have been thinking “has that ■■■■ seen me?” defensive cycling and all that. The right of way is no good to you if you’re dead.
The majority of car drivers cannot manage to maintain lane discipline on roundabouts so I don’t know why we expect cyclists to.
JoeG, I also only ever see him on these threads, although I don’t claim to read every single thread on TNUK. I’m assuming you are a HGV driver as well Joe? And out of interest how well does your bike stop from 48mph? what sort of braking system does it have? cable discs? hydraulics?
Semtex:
Hi Magnatom and welcome to trucknet.I also remember all the crap going on on THAT bus drivers forum and must admit that there was a lot of crap going on…and yes you did get a bit of the rough end of the stick there…
However, you did tend to be a tad overzealous at times.
Yes there are some bad drivers out there but also please remember that we drivers may sometimes “make a mistake” Please consider this before you go running off to our employers bleating about dangerous driving.
Perhaps someone can arrange a wee trip in an artic for you and point out some of the blind spots (Daf 95 mirrors for example that can easily “lose” a small car, let alone a cyclist)
all I’m saying is please don’ jump in with both feet straight away then we can all get on fine
I think there is a misconception about me constantly reporting drivers to employers. In fact I have only done this on a few occasions. In total over 4.5 years I have reported 2 bus drivers (which actually led the bus company to run a ‘Give Cyclists Room Campaign’) one van driver, who just because I was in the way threatened to punch my face in (he certainly could have tried…), and one taxi driver for passing so close I could touch his car with the whole palm of my hand).
In 4.5 years I’ve seen a lot more driving that I certainly could have reported, but I don’t, because a) I have better things to do with my time, b) it only rarely makes a difference, and c) you have to accept to some extent that bad driving happens.
I am more than happy to admit that people make mistakes, I certainly do and I post videos of it! This one for example (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAxsyAQ3fTA)!But often I am endangered not by mistakes, but by aggressive driving, and the bldy cyclist attitude type of driving. That I don’t accept. All of the incidents I reported were of the aggressive driving/bldy cyclist type. Honest mistakes happen, and an apology is always appreciated (from me as well!)
As for being in an artic, I’d love to. Of course the driver would have to be willing to come on a cycle commute with me as well! 
tofer:
Being very bored I’ve just sat and trawled through the whole thread, and come up with a couple of thoughts.Hi-viz clothing should be compulsory for cyclists, although even if it was I wouldn’t hold my breath waiting for the police to be able to enforce it.
Traffic on a roundabout has right of way, not traffic approaching the roundabout at speed that will have right of way when it gets there. That’s not a criticism of the cyclist in this video, just an observation of people’s approach speeds in general.
Just as a HGV driver will give a cyclist room on the basis of “the crazy [zb] might do anything” so the cyclist in this instance should have been thinking “has that [zb] seen me?” defensive cycling and all that. The right of way is no good to you if you’re dead.
The majority of car drivers cannot manage to maintain lane discipline on roundabouts so I don’t know why we expect cyclists to.
JoeG, I also only ever see him on these threads, although I don’t claim to read every single thread on TNUK. I’m assuming you are a HGV driver as well Joe? And out of interest how well does your bike stop from 48mph? what sort of braking system does it have? cable discs? hydraulics?
More important than hi-viz is good lighting. It is amazing how bright LED lights are now. The two lights I have on the front of my bike are 200 lumens each (and were on at the time of the incident!). The problem with hi-viz is, that if a driver doesn’t look at you, it doesn’t matter how much hi-viz you have on!!
I don’t think there is such a thing as right of way in the UK, just priority as far as I am aware. I certainly had priority here. However, the fact that I managed to stop in time indicates that I was keeping an eye on the HGV and that I was still anticipating the worst. However, I can’t cycle around thinking that HGVs are always going to pull out on me. Otherwise I would have to stop at each junction I pass! It’s all about reducing risk, and keeping it to a minimum. I tried my best here and it actually paid off, I’m still here. Yes it was close, but then I think I did not bad, considering how bad his driving was.
As for JoeG, he’s just a young lad who likes to stir things up. I’m pretty sure he was banned from CycleChat for doing just that. I would think it is safe to say that he has never driven an HGV before.
magnatom:
More important than hi-viz is good lighting. It is amazing how bright LED lights are now. The two lights I have on the front of my bike are 200 lumens each (and were on at the time of the incident!). The problem with hi-viz is, that if a driver doesn’t look at you, it doesn’t matter how much hi-viz you have on!!
This is true but in daylight the visibilty of cyclists in the mirrors of a truck is massively increased when they are wearing a hi-viz jacket or even just something bright coloured. And please tell me that you don’t have your LED lights on “flash” mode at night, I’m sure that it is illegal, and if it isn’t it should be, it’s highly distracting and very annoying.
Oh and I still want to know the stopping distance of a bike from 48mph, or even from 30mph come to think of it.
tofer:
Being very bored I’ve just sat and trawled through the whole thread, and come up with a couple of thoughts.Hi-viz clothing should be compulsory for cyclists, although even if it was I wouldn’t hold my breath waiting for the police to be able to enforce it.
Traffic on a roundabout has right of way, not traffic approaching the roundabout at speed that will have right of way when it gets there. That’s not a criticism of the cyclist in this video, just an observation of people’s approach speeds in general.
Just as a HGV driver will give a cyclist room on the basis of “the crazy [zb] might do anything” so the cyclist in this instance should have been thinking “has that [zb] seen me?” defensive cycling and all that. The right of way is no good to you if you’re dead.
The majority of car drivers cannot manage to maintain lane discipline on roundabouts so I don’t know why we expect cyclists to.
JoeG, I also only ever see him on these threads, although I don’t claim to read every single thread on TNUK. I’m assuming you are a HGV driver as well Joe? And out of interest how well does your bike stop from 48mph? what sort of braking system does it have? cable discs? hydraulics?
As for me, no i have never driven a lorry before, but have been a passenger many times, and hopefully in a few years will have my licences.
My bike stops quite well coming down from 48mph. Although about 35-40mph is all i get up to now, and that is only when i have a clear road, i ride fixed for if theres twists i cant normally get up to a high speed due to lacking the ability to stopping peddling on courners where i need to lean over.But a bike will stop quite fast, about at the same rate as what a car will, if not faster i have found(normally when a car has had to stop fast and ive also had to stop fast)
Oh, and Magnatom, you are wrong. I wasnt really banned from cyclechat. What happened was i asked for one account to be deleted because i had had enough. I then asked for it to be set back on. The admin went in a huff wanting for me to beg to have my account restarted. I told him to stick it and left it at that.
He banned for for a year just before that, then lied saying he had only banned me for a week when people had asked for me to let back on.
But, just shows how much you know on it all Magnatom, but then it was all pretty much kept quiet.
Oh, and a few people i was talking to at the time know the full story, which you dont.
And finally, i dont just post in cycling threads. If you want to look through my posts you will see alot of recent posts made in cycling threads, but others in other places. There was even abit of a laugh with Globby at one stage, its just i blend in more when i post out of cycling threads. 
It has been legal to have flashing lights on pushbikes since October 2005:- (the following is some boring legalese)
opsi.gov.uk/si/si2005/20052559.htm. They have been legal to attach to one’s clothing for much longer (e.g. joggers, horse riders).
Hi viz equipment seems to be quite popular amongst many cyclists, so much so that those without may be opening themselves to lesser compensation if they are knocked off (this already has a precedent if not wearing a helmet I believe).
I think it was mentioned earlier in the thread (certainly on another recent one) but you shouldn’t enter a roundabout if your action causes someone approaching but not on it to have to brake hard (if they are within the speed limit they would have to be pretty close to being on the roundabout in most such circumstances anyway) although we have presumably all been caught out by someone approaching unexpectedly fast as was possibly at least part of the case in this thread’s topic. If this (causing another vehicle to slow) were done on an actual test it’s a fail isn’t it? That is a question, not a statement. I think if you do something in your day-to-day driving that would fail a test, then that is not good driving and should obviously be avoided, but imagine most of us do something like that most days. 
tofer:
And please tell me that you don’t have your LED lights on “flash” mode at night, I’m sure that it is illegal, and if it isn’t it should be, it’s highly distracting and very annoying.
I find them in day or night time an excellent safety feature - I can see it’s a bicycle and not anything else, because nothing else seems to have them, far in the distance with those great Hi density flashing LED lights on it - they should make them a legal requirement on all bicycles.
tofer:
Being very bored I’ve just sat and trawled through the whole thread, and come up with a couple of thoughts.Hi-viz clothing should be compulsory for cyclists, although even if it was I wouldn’t hold my breath waiting for the police to be able to enforce it.
Traffic on a roundabout has right of way, not traffic approaching the roundabout at speed that will have right of way when it gets there. That’s not a criticism of the cyclist in this video, just an observation of people’s approach speeds in general.
Just as a HGV driver will give a cyclist room on the basis of “the crazy [zb] might do anything” so the cyclist in this instance should have been thinking “has that [zb] seen me?” defensive cycling and all that. The right of way is no good to you if you’re dead.
The majority of car drivers cannot manage to maintain lane discipline on roundabouts so I don’t know why we expect cyclists to.
JoeG, I also only ever see him on these threads, although I don’t claim to read every single thread on TNUK. I’m assuming you are a HGV driver as well Joe? And out of interest how well does your bike stop from 48mph? what sort of braking system does it have? cable discs? hydraulics?
Its just a shame after being bored and trawling through the whole thread you never had a chance to actually watch the video.
Come on mate, cut the bollox, its obvious who was at fault. Mistake by the tanker driver, yeah we all make them, his fault ? of course it was…
LOL @ 48 on a bike too 