2 Stupid drivers, 1 good one

albion1971:
Dear me what is wrong with some people?
Silly question really because it’s all about attitude and understanding.

Car drivers are taught how to drive the same as LGV drivers are taught.
The problem is they do not always do what they are taught.

Car drivers hog lanes. Lorries hog lanes.
Cars tailgate. Lorries tailgate.
And on it goes.
They are as bad as each other.

What some cannot seem to grasp is we are meant to be professionals. No stupid excuses for not being one.
We are meant to be better than the average car driver both in driving and attitude.
I sometimes think the so called professional drivers are the worst offenders and it saddens me to say that.

But a lot of us are not paid accordingly . or are regarded as such by the public,and media unless one of us make a mistake heaven forbid then they are all too quick at calling us professional drivers ?
The car driver should be trained as that seems to be the current buzz word these days , regarding the blind spots and space needed by lorries as well as the fact that they zb hurt if you get too close , or ■■■■ block them

Sounds like an excuse to me. Just because you do not think you earn enough should not affect the way you drive.
All drivers pass a very basic test including LGV’s and after passing a test it is up to a driver to keep learning but most do not bother as shows by the poor standards on our roads.
Blaming other drivers is a poor excuse for not driving as a professional driver and until drivers change their attitudes nothing will improve.

albion1971:
Sounds like an excuse to me. Just because you do not think you earn enough should not affect the way you drive.
All drivers pass a very basic test including LGV’s and after passing a test it is up to a driver to keep learning but most do not bother as shows by the poor standards on our roads.
Blaming other drivers is a poor excuse for not driving as a professional driver and until drivers change their attitudes nothing will improve.

i did not say it was an excuse for not driving as a pro, as such, but respect works in more than one direction stop excusing the moron lemmings, they need educating BEFORE the get a FULL driving licence with any luck that extra training/cost may reduce their numbers

I’m with albion on this one. ■■■■ in truck should have known the car on his left was there. He shouldn’t have been tailgating the car in the middle lane, and why was he in that lane in the first place if he wanted the n/side lane anyway ? If the limit is 50 and the car in the n/s lane was doing just under, he’s doing nothing wrong. If the car in the middle lane is under the limit, he’s probably committing an offence, but not as bad as the ■■■■ in the truck that’s tailgating.

So to summarise:

■■■■ in truck tailgating, trying to bully car driver to go faster.

■■■■ in truck knows the car is beside him and just says f**k it and barges across.

■■■■ in truck doesn’t know the car is beside him, so is seriously lacking in spatial awareness.

No matter what, it’s down to ■■■■ in truck.

Car driver in n/s lane could have been an inexperienced driver, taking it steady and not even realising the danger he/she was in, but should have been safe.

As for not acting in a professional way because of not getting paid enough, well f**k me. I’ve heard some bollix in my time, but I think that takes the cake.

albion1971:
Dear me what is wrong with some people?
Silly question really because it’s all about attitude and understanding.

Car drivers are taught how to drive the same as LGV drivers are taught.
The problem is they do not always do what they are taught.

Car drivers hog lanes. Lorries hog lanes.
Cars tailgate. Lorries tailgate.
And on it goes.
They are as bad as each other.

What some cannot seem to grasp is we are meant to be professionals. No stupid excuses for not being one.
We are meant to be better than the average car driver both in driving and attitude.
I sometimes think the so called professional drivers are the worst offenders and it saddens me to say that.

Someone is not exempt from blame just because they don’t happen to drive for a living.

It’s easy to see what happened here and all parties contributed to the outcome.

peterm:
I’m with albion on this one. ■■■■ in truck should have known the car on his left was there. He shouldn’t have been tailgating the car in the middle lane, and why was he in that lane in the first place if he wanted the n/side lane anyway ? If the limit is 50 and the car in the n/s lane was doing just under, he’s doing nothing wrong. If the car in the middle lane is under the limit, he’s probably committing an offence, but not as bad as the ■■■■ in the truck that’s tailgating.

So to summarise:

■■■■ in truck tailgating, trying to bully car driver to go faster.

■■■■ in truck knows the car is beside him and just says f**k it and barges across.

■■■■ in truck doesn’t know the car is beside him, so is seriously lacking in spatial awareness.

No matter what, it’s down to ■■■■ in truck.

Car driver in n/s lane could have been an inexperienced driver, taking it steady and not even realising the danger he/she was in, but should have been safe.

As for not acting in a professional way because of not getting paid enough, well f**k me. I’ve heard some bollix in my time, but I think that takes the cake.

Always knew you were one of the good guys.

In your country at the moment having a ball.
Been to NZ for the first time and now in Sydney.

ajt:

albion1971:
Dear me what is wrong with some people?
Silly question really because it’s all about attitude and understanding.

Car drivers are taught how to drive the same as LGV drivers are taught.
The problem is they do not always do what they are taught.

Car drivers hog lanes. Lorries hog lanes.
Cars tailgate. Lorries tailgate.
And on it goes.
They are as bad as each other.

What some cannot seem to grasp is we are meant to be professionals. No stupid excuses for not being one.
We are meant to be better than the average car driver both in driving and attitude.
I sometimes think the so called professional drivers are the worst offenders and it saddens me to say that.

Someone is not exempt from blame just because they don’t happen to drive for a living.

It’s easy to see what happened here and all parties contributed to the outcome.

Seems you have a lot to learn a bit like Tommy T.
Or is it your biased attitude that’s the problem?

Bluey Circles:
anyone got an exact location on this (in googlemaps) I would be interested to put a speed on the vehicles

answering my own posts now. If the slippy road sign at the very begining of the vid is in the same place as the one in the video
streetview link
then that would give a distance to the bridge of 307m which was covered in 16.1 seconds which would suggest a speed of 42.9mph (obviously a few errors and discrepancies could be in that calculations) but it does seem quiet slow to be hogging the middle lane at.
Of course non of that can be any excuse for the truck driver.
and I still could have sympathise with the middle lane hogger if she was unaware the hard shoulder was in use, these av camera zones can be stressfull

albion1971:

ajt:

albion1971:
Dear me what is wrong with some people?
Silly question really because it’s all about attitude and understanding.

Car drivers are taught how to drive the same as LGV drivers are taught.
The problem is they do not always do what they are taught.

Car drivers hog lanes. Lorries hog lanes.
Cars tailgate. Lorries tailgate.
And on it goes.
They are as bad as each other.

What some cannot seem to grasp is we are meant to be professionals. No stupid excuses for not being one.
We are meant to be better than the average car driver both in driving and attitude.
I sometimes think the so called professional drivers are the worst offenders and it saddens me to say that.

Someone is not exempt from blame just because they don’t happen to drive for a living.

It’s easy to see what happened here and all parties contributed to the outcome.

Seems you have a lot to learn a bit like Tommy T.
Or is it your biased attitude that’s the problem?

I would love to learn from you Albion but just wouldn’t know where to start of pulling your head from out of your arse

I doubt you could learn from me even if you wanted.
I met plenty similar to you when I was training.
Beyond help.

HGV’s should be banned from overtaking in roadworks, because theres to many of us that cant cope with condensed traffic and dont have the mental capacity to cope with speeds below the set target (or limit if you will).

Slowing down, easing off, leaving a safe distance, not being on the limiter is such a foreign concept to many that accidents like this are a regular occurence.

Regardless of the actions of other road users its a basic concept that our job involves not hitting them (with the possible exception of crazy brake testers).

The rigid driver in this video will be lucky not to lose his HGV entitlement and rightly so. His total cockery will have delayed 100’s if not 1000’s of motorists stuck in the congestion whilst the damaged car is removed. Driving at a standard below what is expected of a professional driver should carry a points penalty.

Although actions of other road users can be frustrating its our job to set the standard, holiday season is coming and god help any nervous motorists if faced with a professional driver with no understanding that its a battlefield out there, but we are all on the same bloody side.

Well said Dipper.

Yes Dipper nice to see some of us know the score.
Hopefully others will learn from your wise words.

I disagree with a quite a lot that has been said on this. Particularly I feel emotion is prevalent in some of the views. A lot of lessons can be missed. To take an un emotional view these are my personal feelings.

The lorry driver in question is an entirely one kettle of fish. I quite rightly feel he deserves the law and recompense. What he did was inexcusable, and no actions by others within the clip warrant or justify his course of action.

However. Do you think this is it for further study of this incident? Surprising. Bare in mind if an airliner crashes the mental state and work pattern of even the innocent chap that cleaned the windshield that blew out is studied.

I do not agree with the sentiment that as professional drivers you are there to set an example. This is emotional and detracting. You are required to drive within the law applicable to your class of vehicle. Any role setting is a nice human aside, but detracts from study. You are required to drive within the law and the law includes appropriate behaviour. That’s it.

A car driver has his or her own separate merry cart of apples to deal with. People who drive by law, are not children in the truer sense or infirm. At least they shouldn’t be. They hold a licence as a gifted entitlement that can be revoked. A road user has a responsibility every time they take to the roads, no matter in what vehicle or what capacity, regardless of licence held.

They are well trained as proved by test. That’s the way the law sees it. Not half trained. Not only trained depending on the circumstances. Not trained with a get out clause to act the blush eyed innocent bamby. In the eyes of the law, you are either a licence holder to drive within the law for your class of vehicle or your are not. You obey and act according to the laws that apply to your class of vehicle within the wider road traffic act. That includes the Highway Code recommendation of defensive driving, which applies, to all.

For instance, is a car driver who runs over a pedestrian less culpable than a person on a motorcycle? An innocent, A-B, infantile car driver in this angry lorry video becomes all to easily the “reckless, entitlement abusing trained driver” who should be accountable on the next pedestrian squishing video. Human emotion and relative perception again.

My original statement came about because of this, I maybe mistaken but if I didn’t know better I do think there was a little of the red eyed devil going on with the car on the left. The lorry sped up, the car sped up. It was most likely playing the old “you won’t get in here” game. It’s innocent enough.

But. When dealing with accident investigation ALL mitigating human factors and behaviours have to be evaluated, without predjudice or emotion. Bare in mind, all road users, all adults, all accountable. No one is in kindergarten in this incident. If an accident is to be truly studied, all factors must be assessed if anything complete is to be learned. It’s not about blame. The pitch fork team looking for blame can miss out on further lessons once you think you’ve found the culprit.

I’ve been tally to an investigation or two in my time. In air incident investigation. Take a case of gross misconduct in performance. It’s incredibly rare in aviation but the formula stands. You simply, will not find the attitude that along the following path:-

The culprit is supposed to be highly professional and due gross misconduct upon their part, no other human factors within the case are worthy of further behavioural study, or judicial review as nothing is to be learned.

The air investigation culture has spent decades destroying and overcoming just the very attitudes that tempt people down this path that some show on here. A person or entity overwhelmingly seems responsible for an act. They’re highly trained, those around them less so. So that relative step in “perceived” accountability shifts the focus exactly upon the former. So many lessons missed. To truly study incidents you have to divorce yourself and separate all the factors. There normally isn’t just one lesson to be learned.

It’s not about blame, it’s about understanding the reasons why everyone Involved did what they did so lessons can be learned. That’s the way

Well said FD, but it still doesn’t explain why or excuse the ■■■■ in the lorry being in the lane he was in, or not indicating and slowing down to tuck in behind the car.

From the OP link, camera man “I had cruise control set to 50mph so the truck was doing at least that when it hit her."

Negates a few of the comments above.

Freightdog, I read your post with interest about the link to aviation and human errors and misjudgement .
I refer to the global shake up on how airlines had to change their training of air crew.
The two aircraft that collided in heavy fog, a 747 from KLM and another aircraft .
The 747 Captain was the poster boy image of the airline, from cockpit recording, it transpired the First Officer was intimidated by his Captain and he made the decision to take off .The Captain decided to take off despite doubts from his First Officer .
Cockpit resource management is now in place worldwide .
Another crash was due to the lack of command of the English language by a Columbian Captain who was told to circle when he knew he was on low fuel.
Like lorry driving, pilots under pressure make mistakes and errors .
The Washington DC crash, delayed on the terminal due to ice on the wings and heavy snow .
The crew used reverse thrust to move their 737.
This resulted in FOD in the engines intake causing a severe catastrophic breakdown after V 2, ditching in to a frozen river .
A jet engine works on ■■■■, squeeze, bang and blow for forward propulsion .
Survivors being airlifted out of the river but blinded by jet fuel floating on the water .

I do not agree with the sentiment that as professional drivers you are there to set an example.

I’m sure in this case a few Traffic Commisioners may disagree with you!

MickM

MTM12:
I do not agree with the sentiment that as professional drivers you are there to set an example.

I’m sure in this case a few Traffic Commisioners may disagree with you!

MickM

Maybe not to set an example as such, granted, but a degree of professionalism should be displayed without you trying, or being aware you are doing so, and the fact that you are a professional, it should just come natural…
A better standard of driving by a professional over a guy who uses his car to go to work, should be taken for granted, unfortunately in a lot of cases it isn’t, that is why we are unpopular with a lot of other road users.

Freight Dog:
My original statement came about because of this, I maybe mistaken but if I didn’t know better I do think there was a little of the red eyed devil going on with the car on the left. The lorry sped up, the car sped up. It was most likely playing the old “you won’t get in here” game. It’s innocent enough.

The air investigation culture has spent decades destroying and overcoming just the very attitudes that tempt people down this path that some show on here. A person or entity overwhelmingly seems responsible for an act. They’re highly trained, those around them less so. So that relative step in “perceived” accountability shifts the focus exactly upon the former. So many lessons missed. To truly study incidents you have to divorce yourself and separate all the factors. There normally isn’t just one lesson to be learned.

It’s not about blame, it’s about understanding the reasons why everyone Involved did what they did so lessons can be learned. That’s the way

+1

Assuming that there’s any truth in that view of the car driver’s possible motives that would be anything but ‘innocent’ as one of the contributing causes.

The next question would relate to the thought process going on with the camera vehicle driver.In that firstly the overtaking truck had signalled an intent to return to the live hard shoulder lane behind the car long before the collision.However the camera vehicle’s seperation distance was too close to the car at that point not only in that respect but in all respects.In which case the question is why didn’t the camera vehicle driver back off to not only to create a decent seperation distance to the car but also the required seperation distance needed for the truck to return to ‘lane 1’ bearing in mind the driver’s signal of intent.

As for the truck driver who hit the car I’d call it something which you’re probably familiar with regards aircraft investigations.Being a disproportionate all consuming fixation on something that didn’t actually matter in returning to ‘lane 1’.When the priority was to stay in ‘lane 2’ and back off from the car ahead and just ignore the traffic situation in ‘lane 1’ bearing in mind that the car and truck in that lane had effectively blocked any possible lane change to that lane.It’s my guess that the two muppets in ‘lane 1’ in the form of the car and camera vehicle would have then shown their true colours by undertaking.The reference to the camera vehicle in ‘lane 1’,seeming to be running at 50 mph using the cruise control ? :open_mouth: :unamused: in that situation, just adding to that view.