I thought I’d better check this before I get all arsey with payroll.
I’m an agency driver on PAYE not an umbrella scheme. I have been getting night out payment (£23) listed as expenses on my payslip for the last 6 months. Last week it was shown as basic pay and taxed. I have queried this and got this response:
“With regards to the N/O they are meant to be taxed and have been for the last few years after HMRC changed the legislation.”
Have I missed something? Or can I put my arsey pants on?
grumpybum:
I thought I’d better check this before I get all arsey with payroll.I’m an agency driver on PAYE not an umbrella scheme. I have been getting night out payment (£23) listed as expenses on my payslip for the last 6 months. Last week it was shown as basic pay and taxed. I have queried this and got this response:
“With regards to the N/O they are meant to be taxed and have been for the last few years after HMRC changed the legislation.”
Have I missed something? Or can I put my arsey pants on?
Depends…
Night -out payments are tax-free, up to an amount (£26) if you can prove you were indeed away from base, or if the company has an agreement with HMRC, such that they are confident N/O money is not a disguised payment.
Try this:
gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manual … l/eim66205
“2. Agreed industry scale rate –lorry drivers’ overnight subsistence allowance
You can apply to HMRC for an approval notice to use the agreed haulage industry scale rate for overnight stays away from home. This is currently £34.90, or 75% of this figure (£26.20) where the driver uses a sleeper cab, and incurs subsistence expenses after starting their journey. These are the maximum amounts that can be paid free of Income Tax and NICs under the agreed industry scale rate.
You will also need to have a checking system in place to ensure periodic checks are carried out on a sample of employees. This is to ensure employees are incurring expenses for meals and other subsistence costs while travelling, and that the payment remains a reasonable estimate of the costs usually incurred. A meal is a combination of food and drink in accordance with a normal dictionary meaning of the word.”
Thank you for that Franglais. Turns out they don’t have an agreement with HMRC so nights out are taxed 
.
grumpybum:
Thank you for that Franglais. Turns out they don’t have an agreement with HMRC so nights out are taxed
Then doesn’t point 1 of Franglais’ link apply “benchmark scale rate”? £25 no agreement required.
This is what payroll copied and pasted into their reply to me:
“Is HGV night out money taxable?
Yes. Payments for nights away can still be made to your drivers and these payments can still be made free of income tax and National Insurance if you have an agreement in place that has been approved by HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC).”
I don’t think I’m going to get anywhere with them
grumpybum:
This is what payroll copied and pasted into their reply to me:“Is HGV night out money taxable?
Yes. Payments for nights away can still be made to your drivers and these payments can still be made free of income tax and National Insurance if you have an agreement in place that has been approved by HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC).”I don’t think I’m going to get anywhere with them
Well, seeing as you’re paying tax on it anyway, put your ‘arsey pants’ on and demand a higher rate of night out money. So that after tax, you get £26 per night out.
I didn’t know that there had to be an agreement with HMRC, for the basic n/o money to be untaxed.
Simon:
I didn’t know that there had to be an agreement with HMRC, for the basic n/o money to be untaxed.
No, me either. But found this on gov.uk:
“2. Agreed industry scale rate –lorry drivers’ overnight subsistence allowance
You can apply to HMRC for an approval notice to use the agreed haulage industry scale rate for overnight stays away from home. This is currently £34.90, or 75% of this figure (£26.20) where the driver uses a sleeper cab, and incurs subsistence expenses after starting their journey. These are the maximum amounts that can be paid free of Income Tax and NICs under the agreed industry scale rate.“
Not too worried now anyway as the company I’ve been working for asked me yesterday to go full time with them 
Washed and ironed my arsey pants ready for next time…
grumpybum:
Simon:
I didn’t know that there had to be an agreement with HMRC, for the basic n/o money to be untaxed.No, me either. But found this on gov.uk:
“2. Agreed industry scale rate –lorry drivers’ overnight subsistence allowance
You can apply to HMRC for an approval notice to use the agreed haulage industry scale rate for overnight stays away from home. This is currently £34.90, or 75% of this figure (£26.20) where the driver uses a sleeper cab, and incurs subsistence expenses after starting their journey. These are the maximum amounts that can be paid free of Income Tax and NICs under the agreed industry scale rate.“Not too worried now anyway as the company I’ve been working for asked me yesterday to go full time with them
Washed and ironed my arsey pants ready for next time…
Nice one
grumpybum:
Simon:
I didn’t know that there had to be an agreement with HMRC, for the basic n/o money to be untaxed.No, me either. But found this on gov.uk:
“2. Agreed industry scale rate –lorry drivers’ overnight subsistence allowance
You can apply to HMRC for an approval notice to use the agreed haulage industry scale rate for overnight stays away from home. This is currently £34.90, or 75% of this figure (£26.20) where the driver uses a sleeper cab, and incurs subsistence expenses after starting their journey. These are the maximum amounts that can be paid free of Income Tax and NICs under the agreed industry scale rate.“Not too worried now anyway as the company I’ve been working for asked me yesterday to go full time with them
Washed and ironed my arsey pants ready for next time…
If a company can`t be arsed to apply to pay tax free N/O money, can they be surprised if you get arsey with them?
If they want to save the expense (?) of applying for said status, can they then complain if you demand a larger amount?
Simon:
Well, seeing as you’re paying tax on it anyway, put your ‘arsey pants’ on and demand a higher rate of night out money. So that after tax, you get £26 per night out.
Anyway, seems to be working out OK for you, but could still be of help to others.
Any tips of suppliers of arsey pants?
Franglais:
Any tips of suppliers of arsey pants?
My mum knitted mine for me and sewed my name into the back 