Good Morning All, my first attempt at a post on this site, I am seeking some feedback on how other haulage companies have applied the changes to night out allowance brought in by HMRC and how this has impacted on the drivers. I am one of 2 Shop Stewards representing the Drivers at the company I work for, we have been given 3 options on how the allowance is paid going forward. These are:
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Current allowance of £23.06 is paid into wage and tax deducted at source
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Drivers can receipt for actual expenses incurred on an overnight stay, up to permitted maximum meal allowances published by HMRC
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Drivers can continue to receive the current rate of £23.06 as expenses, broken down into £18.06 subsistence and £5 incidental overnight expenses. Receipts need to be produced for the £18.06 component, and if the value of the receipts is consistently less than £18.06 per night the company will review the amount paid and may reduce it.
This is where I think they may be trying to mug us off; even HMRC concedes that not all expenses incurred on a night out are receiptable, eg cost of purchasing and washing bedding, and does not expect the full amount to be receipted. While I understand and support the company’s obligation to be tax compliant, I can’t help thinking this could be used further down the line to reduce our subsistence payments under the guise of legal compliance. An added complication is that our nights out do not usually conform to the conventional definition as due to the specifics of the job we are usually accommodated in rudimentary accommodation on the sites we deliver to - this also places us out of the loop somewhat in how these changes have been dealt with in the rest of the industry. The drivers now have until 10 April to vote on whichever of the 3 options. Any information you can offer would be most welcome, thanks guys.
S
Looks like your being mugged off mate…The overnight allowance shouldnt be added to your wage…thats their first mistake, even more so if they then tax the lot. Night out allowance is not taxable up to a certain amount i think its £32 might be wrong on that…and HMRC only want proof of a night away from base to warrant payment ( can always find a used receipt nearby ) and no need to show you have spent the whole amount. I would be asking for the whole amount in cash or via my wages but non taxable.
I would not be doing nights out with your firm.
May well stand being corrected, but I’m sure the maximum allwance without incurring tax is £26.20 if sleeping in the cab. Not sure if that still applies if you’re in a bunkhouse or whatever they use on your job.
Sidevalve:
May well stand being corrected, but I’m sure the maximum allwance without incurring tax is £26.20 if sleeping in the cab. Not sure if that still applies if you’re in a bunkhouse or whatever they use on your job.
The higher figure is for being in a day cab irrc .
It is on the hmrc site .
This guys “Union guy” firm is penny pinching .The kind of firm who will keep taking and taking and expecting 100 % for paying 35% .
We now pay a taxable amount of £30 ish, now called an Inconvenience Payment, instead of night out. We don’t do a lot of night outs though.
Our finance manager basically said he CBA wading through a load of fiddly bits of paper .
albion:
We now pay a taxable amount of £30 ish, now called an Inconvenience Payment, instead of night out. We don’t do a lot of night outs though.
Our finance manager basically said he CBA wading through a load of fiddly bits of paper .
Apparently if your vehicles are fitted with a tracker system, you don’t need receipts; presumably because it can be proven that the vehicle is away from base.
Sidevalve:
albion:
We now pay a taxable amount of £30 ish, now called an Inconvenience Payment, instead of night out. We don’t do a lot of night outs though.
Our finance manager basically said he CBA wading through a load of fiddly bits of paper .
Apparently if your vehicles are fitted with a tracker system, you don’t need receipts; presumably because it can be proven that the vehicle is away from base.
I didn’t know that one. It’s logical. Cheers.
We did get it all tax free, without having to submit any receipts, then it all changed and we had to pay tax on the lot until our company sorted an agreement out with HMRC. This lasted for a few months until it changed to what it currently is.
It’s now £23.80 per night out, paid tax free if we submit a receipt showing expenditure of at least £1. The receipt can be from the day either side of the night, but not from your weekly shop when you get all the supplies in.
I tend to buy 2 pints (of milk) on my first day then cups of tea for the other days. It doesn’t have to be food.
If minesweeping for receipts, it may be worth looking if they are for cash. If they are paid by card they will show the card number (albeit with some starred out). If you get audited, can you prove that the items were paid for with your own card, bearing in mind that you’ll probably have 4 receipts showing 4 different card numbers?
Sidevalve:
Apparently if your vehicles are fitted with a tracker system, you don’t need receipts; presumably because it can be proven that the vehicle is away from base.
Don’t suppose you could perchance find an official link to that could you please Sidevalve? I only ask as sometimes it’s a PITA getting receipts.
Say it again.
Date-place- name-£25-signiture.
1/4/18. Colsterworth-j.smith-£25- &&&&&&
In a book, all driver’s fill it out, if you’ve paid for parking or other legitimate expenses, and recipits are provided it’s all paid, HMRC then have a full and clear record of who,what,when,were, and what for, all traceable.
I know for large faceless corporation, it’s too easy to implement,as it would need to go thro, 2 mangers,then compliance,then accounts need to deal in cash every week.
the maoster:
Sidevalve:
Apparently if your vehicles are fitted with a tracker system, you don’t need receipts; presumably because it can be proven that the vehicle is away from base.
Don’t suppose you could perchance find an official link to that could you please Sidevalve? I only ask as sometimes it’s a PITA getting receipts.
Depends on how you read this -
gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manual … l/eim66120
It doesn’t mention anything to do with trackers, but “log sheets” and “itinerary records kept by the employer” can be used.
Further info can be found here - gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manual … l/eim66130
Rich262:
the maoster:
Sidevalve:
Apparently if your vehicles are fitted with a tracker system, you don’t need receipts; presumably because it can be proven that the vehicle is away from base.
Don’t suppose you could perchance find an official link to that could you please Sidevalve? I only ask as sometimes it’s a PITA getting receipts.
Depends on how you read this -
gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manual … l/eim66120
It doesn’t mention anything to do with trackers, but “log sheets” and “itinerary records kept by the employer” can be used.
Further info can be found here - gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manual … l/eim66130
Id suggest that an electronic record of a tracker would count as an "itinerary record"? At our place we havent been asked for receipts at all. Our “Night Out” money has been the same for several years and is never marked as being taxed. We do mark any “night outs” we`re claiming for on a run sheet with locations on it, and all our vehicles are tracked.
Franglais:
Rich262:
the maoster:
Sidevalve:
Apparently if your vehicles are fitted with a tracker system, you don’t need receipts; presumably because it can be proven that the vehicle is away from base.
Don’t suppose you could perchance find an official link to that could you please Sidevalve? I only ask as sometimes it’s a PITA getting receipts.
Depends on how you read this -
gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manual … l/eim66120
It doesn’t mention anything to do with trackers, but “log sheets” and “itinerary records kept by the employer” can be used.
Further info can be found here - gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manual … l/eim66130
**Id suggest that an electronic record of a tracker would count as an "itinerary record"?** At our place we havent been asked for receipts at all. Our “Night Out” money has been the same for several years and is never marked as being taxed. We do mark any “night outs” we`re claiming for on a run sheet with locations on it, and all our vehicles are tracked.
Yes it does count as itinery.
These regs changed last year, so firms are finally dealing with it now means two things to me…
1, they don’t know the regs. A simple call to the tax office explained it to me (it really isn’t hard…)
2, the asking of receipts (no need for this), from drivers is simply trying to stop drivers claiming for nights out they haven’t took, instead of facing up to them. Lazy management if you ask me…
My mob have done away with N/O money & meal allowances completely. We’ve had our wages upped to compensate. I’ve been monitoring it over the last two months & we haven’t lost out so far. It’s costing our guy more obviously but he says the hassle & cost of administration of the new regulations balance out
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Hello again guys and many thanks for all the replies, I will use this information to good effect in consulting with the workforce, cheers
S
Sidevalve:
May well stand being corrected, but I’m sure the maximum allwance without incurring tax is £26.20 if sleeping in the cab. Not sure if that still applies if you’re in a bunkhouse or whatever they use on your job.
We get exactly this amount but nobody has ever told me the reason why it’s that amount so you could well be right and we get the full tax free amount.
