dieseldog999:
16 trucks with adblu fiddled…and a slap on the wrist coming…no biggy.
the end justifies the means.
You don’t need to give them a big fine, the bill for putting it right will be damage enough. It could quite easily end up being the equivalent to a years worth of profit from that motor if its just on general haulage.
Winseer:
What happens if you “fail the spot emissions test” by scrimping on the ad-blue?Basically, there’s nothing wrong with the vehicle, but having not bothered filling up the adblue for a few days?..
Well, the lights would work if I could be bothered to replace the fuse, the vehicles basically alright. Well, the vehicles basically alright. When I can be bothered to replace the bald tyres she`ll be fine.
I worked for a company where someone instigated a full delete on a couple of trucks. Perfect reliability, better fuel consumption, more power and no-one suspected a thing during the whole time I drove it. It has to be worth doing.
Chris one of those trucks picked up 1.5mpg from it’s pre deleted average, it also went over the Turner Falls hill in top gear whereas before it needed at least half a gear to get over it.
Prior to the delete it was constantly having check engine lights come on and derating. It never had a power increase, that’s a big reason why a lot of deleted trucks have reliability and fuel economy problems, they turn up the wick and the driver makes the most of the power with inevitable results.
Sent from my SM-G950W using Tapatalk
maurice:
Surprised they released that press release because it clearly states what happens to anyone who is caught with one of those devices. Absolutely [zb] all. Providing it’s rectified within 10 days it won’t cost the haulier a penny, other than a bit of pocket money to lift the prohibition. In typical VOSA/DVSA fashion, they’ve simply taught everyone how to break the law so that even more people will do it. Everyone knows how to fiddle a digi tachograph thanks to VOSA bragging about it when they caught the first one. If they kept quiet about it there’s no way in this world would it be so prolific because it wasn’t well known.In the past DVSA have been telling lies about operators loosing their license because they were caught with a device fitted. You have to read well into their press releases, right at the bottom to see the actual reason the haulier is in bother and it’s never anything to do with emissions. Lying scumbags who have to rely on scaremongering to do their job because they’re always one step behind the law breakers.
Not quite absolutely zb to start with the dvsa come round and go through your books and calculate the cost of add blue you would of used and you pay it to them .
Don’t know about you younger guys who take all this stuff as normal now, but what do you older and experienced drivers think about all this crap?
Is all this emissions thing really that important?
Ok thankfully things have improved vastly since the days you followed an old Gardner powered ERF up a hill and were fighting for breath as the thick pungent reek from it mixed in with the fumes in your own cab, but does the criteria of Euro 4 and all that type ■■■■■■■■ NEED to be so strict, are they not just pandering to the Green lobby,.and at the same time our lovely Government, (true to form) using it as yet another excuse and agenda to raise more revenue, while using buzz phrases to brainwash, such as ‘‘Carbon footprints’’ and ‘Emission zones’’ 
Call me cynical here, but it’s all just another example of the usual 21 Century ■■■■■■■■ imo, and more excuses and opportunities to extort cash, along similar lines as H&S and DCPC.
Euro 4 is easy it’s just a particle exhaust trap nothing to go wrong , it’s 5 & 6 where the trouble starts .
Agree Rob…all those years ago when we all turned up in the yard…started the engine…had a coffee whilst it did…but couldnt see the office for the amount of exhaust fumes and smoke…ha ha …then came the F89s..and it was even worse..till you pushed the little button in..was it called a boom brake or something like that..they sure did smoke..and as you say..the green lobby..hounded the government ..and they listened..we must save the planet ha ha …so the euro 1.2.3.4.5.6. was born…had trouble with my euro 4…and MAN quoted £8 grand for a new exhaust system…ha ha the motor was only £5 grand…it got scrapped…i dont blame the hauliers one bit for turning it off or whatever they do to stop it…more money to run it than for what its worth…and all those crying wolf…for what…the advantage…or do they really care about the planet, global warming or whatever they think of next…for sure as hell i dont.
You’re obviously not concerned about all the kiddies an kittens that are getting harmed then ■■ …
Its the main polluters of the atmosphere which should be taken to task ie airlines. Removing emission eqpt from trucks is pretty insignificant re nox levels compared to very dirty jet engines.
Edit-spelling…
AndrewG:
Its the main polluters of the atmosphere which should be taken to task ie airlines. Removing emission eqpt from trucks is pretty insignificant re nox levels compared to very dirty jet engines.Edit-spelling…
But it’s not really, is it? Accurate numbers are hard to come by, but there are (very) roughly 30,000 commercial airliners currently in use around the world, as compared with (very) roughly 330,000,000 commercial vehicles (and 900,000,000+ passenger cars). OK, typical journey lengths are much, much longer - but the airliners typically travel a few miles above the populace, rather than just a few yards away, and that proximity to people is what causes the damage to health.
Roymondo:
AndrewG:
Its the main polluters of the atmosphere which should be taken to task ie airlines. Removing emission eqpt from trucks is pretty insignificant re nox levels compared to very dirty jet engines.Edit-spelling…
But it’s not really, is it? Accurate numbers are hard to come by, but there are (very) roughly 30,000 commercial airliners currently in use around the world, as compared with (very) roughly 330,000,000 commercial vehicles (and 900,000,000+ passenger cars). OK, typical journey lengths are much, much longer - but the airliners typically travel a few miles above the populace, rather than just a few yards away, and that proximity to people is what causes the damage to health.
I hear cows arses have their share of blame too 
Roymondo:
AndrewG:
Its the main polluters of the atmosphere which should be taken to task ie airlines. Removing emission eqpt from trucks is pretty insignificant re nox levels compared to very dirty jet engines.Edit-spelling…
But it’s not really, is it? Accurate numbers are hard to come by, but there are (very) roughly 30,000 commercial airliners currently in use around the world, as compared with (very) roughly 330,000,000 commercial vehicles (and 900,000,000+ passenger cars). OK, typical journey lengths are much, much longer - but the airliners typically travel a few miles above the populace, rather than just a few yards away, and that proximity to people is what causes the damage to health.
And there’s me thinking its the climate change not your health I must have got it wrong
robroy:
Don’t know about you younger guys who take all this stuff as normal now, but what do you older and experienced drivers think about all this crap?
Is all this emissions thing really that important?.
Yes, we’re definitely bolloxing up the planet with the CO2 released from burning fossil fuels, and we’re definitely causing no end of health problems to people in cities with NOx from diesel engines. Its happening.
It would be nice to think that the inevitability of us destroying the planet could be avoided by a few countries trying to do the right thing, but the problem is so massive it is unresolvable, think about it - less than a billion of us has created the current mess and there are another 6 billion who want to adopt our life styles. Its futile trying, there’s just too many people and they all want to live like us, it’s all going to go pear shape sooner or later.
I think the sad thing about the new regulations will be the demise of the small haulier. I was an owner driver, have been self employed nearly all my life; you can carve a niche out for yourself, run older trucks maintain them yourself, undercut the big boys and do OK. The recent changes to high tech wagons with all the electronics, emissions and maintenance problems and the need for specialised workshops to maintain them is just playing into the hands of the giant companies who can run new fleets and undercut by scale of size. The days for the small independent haulier are numbered, and that is sad.
Pollution by aircraft vs pollution by motor vehicles.
CO2 pollution is caused by all burners of fuels. A fully loaded aircraft will produce about as much CO2 per passenger kilometre as a car with a single occupant. So taking a car with 4 people on holiday is about a quarter as polluting as flying.
We have all heard that “the polluter should pay” but aircraft fuel on international trips isn`t taxed is it? So we have the crazy situation that the most polluting method of going on holiday is the cheapest! Insanity.
The NOx emissions by some aircraft is apparently a disproportionate contributor to greenhouse gases because it is emitted higher up.
Noticing that aircraft dont have large exhausts and particulate filters itll be no surprise that they emit a hell of a lot more fine particulates than a Euro 6 diesel! And since they give off most pollution at full power (take off at crowded airports) again it`s not a pretty picture.
Using aircraft to fly in out of season fruit, veg, and flowers, is yet another sign of the insane world we live in.
Bluey Circles:
robroy:
Don’t know about you younger guys who take all this stuff as normal now, but what do you older and experienced drivers think about all this crap?
Is all this emissions thing really that important?.Yes, we’re definitely bolloxing up the planet with the CO2 released from burning fossil fuels, and we’re definitely causing no end of health problems to people in cities with NOx from diesel engines. Its happening.
It would be nice to think that the inevitability of us destroying the planet could be avoided by a few countries trying to do the right thing, but the problem is so massive it is unresolvable, think about it - less than a billion of us has created the current mess and there are another 6 billion who want to adopt our life styles. Its futile trying, there’s just too many people and they all want to live like us, it’s all going to go pear shape sooner or later.
I think the sad thing about the new regulations will be the demise of the small haulier. I was an owner driver, have been self employed nearly all my life; you can carve a niche out for yourself, run older trucks maintain them yourself, undercut the big boys and do OK. The recent changes to high tech wagons with all the electronics, emissions and maintenance problems and the need for specialised workshops to maintain them is just playing into the hands of the giant companies who can run new fleets and undercut by scale of size. The days for the small independent haulier are numbered, and that is sad.
I understand there is a large element of importance in not ‘Bolloxing up the planet’ (to use your tech term )
My point was, that in the department that affects our industry ie cutting down smoke emissions and dangerous gases/fumes from HGVs, has the grass not been cut short enough?
Like my example a 70s ERF, and thousands of those types of trucks on the M6 in those days, compared with vastly cleaner vehicles today on the same M6, are one hell of a vast mega improvement, in terms of achieving much cleaner air, …but they are STILL moving the goalposts with stricter regs, Euro 5 or whatever tf stage we are at now, …
Is it not time to say ‘‘Job done in that department, now we’ll concentrate on another culprit industry’’.
That was part of my point, how much ■■■■ shorter do they want the grass cut, and is it truly necessary in reality? 
robroy:
Bluey Circles:
robroy:
Don’t know about you younger guys who take all this stuff as normal now, but what do you older and experienced drivers think about all this crap?
Is all this emissions thing really that important?.Yes, we’re definitely bolloxing up the planet with the CO2 released from burning fossil fuels, and we’re definitely causing no end of health problems to people in cities with NOx from diesel engines. Its happening.
It would be nice to think that the inevitability of us destroying the planet could be avoided by a few countries trying to do the right thing, but the problem is so massive it is unresolvable, think about it - less than a billion of us has created the current mess and there are another 6 billion who want to adopt our life styles. Its futile trying, there’s just too many people and they all want to live like us, it’s all going to go pear shape sooner or later.
I think the sad thing about the new regulations will be the demise of the small haulier. I was an owner driver, have been self employed nearly all my life; you can carve a niche out for yourself, run older trucks maintain them yourself, undercut the big boys and do OK. The recent changes to high tech wagons with all the electronics, emissions and maintenance problems and the need for specialised workshops to maintain them is just playing into the hands of the giant companies who can run new fleets and undercut by scale of size. The days for the small independent haulier are numbered, and that is sad.
I understand there is a large element of importance in not ‘Bolloxing up the planet’ (to use your tech term
My point was, that in the department that affects our industry ie cutting down smoke emissions and dangerous gases/fumes from HGVs, has the grass not been cut short enough?Like my example a 70s ERF, and thousands of those types of trucks on the M6 in those days, compared with vastly cleaner vehicles today on the same M6, are one hell of a vast mega improvement, in terms of achieving much cleaner air, …but they are STILL moving the goalposts with stricter regs, Euro 5 or whatever tf stage we are at now, …
Is it not time to say ‘‘Job done in that department, now we’ll concentrate on another culprit industry’’.
That was part of my point, how much [zb] shorter do they want the grass cut, and is it truly necessary in reality?
No. It will keep people in jobs analysing the results and writing new rules.
It keeps the engine manufacturer in grants/tax write offs as new engines are developed.
It will make the truck sellers in profit as people upgrade to the latest model.
As said before its all a waste of time as agriculture is a huge part but unless we all go vegetarian that wont change. Then you have the developing world who want to grow but we say can’t so will just ignore us.
The planet’s screwed, (technical term) just a matter of when
robroy:
Bluey Circles:
robroy:
Don’t know about you younger guys who take all this stuff as normal now, but what do you older and experienced drivers think about all this crap?
Is all this emissions thing really that important?.Yes, we’re definitely bolloxing up the planet with the CO2 released from burning fossil fuels, and we’re definitely causing no end of health problems to people in cities with NOx from diesel engines. Its happening.
It would be nice to think that the inevitability of us destroying the planet could be avoided by a few countries trying to do the right thing, but the problem is so massive it is unresolvable, think about it - less than a billion of us has created the current mess and there are another 6 billion who want to adopt our life styles. Its futile trying, there’s just too many people and they all want to live like us, it’s all going to go pear shape sooner or later.
I think the sad thing about the new regulations will be the demise of the small haulier. I was an owner driver, have been self employed nearly all my life; you can carve a niche out for yourself, run older trucks maintain them yourself, undercut the big boys and do OK. The recent changes to high tech wagons with all the electronics, emissions and maintenance problems and the need for specialised workshops to maintain them is just playing into the hands of the giant companies who can run new fleets and undercut by scale of size. The days for the small independent haulier are numbered, and that is sad.
I understand there is a large element of importance in not ‘Bolloxing up the planet’ (to use your tech term
My point was, that in the department that affects our industry ie cutting down smoke emissions and dangerous gases/fumes from HGVs, has the grass not been cut short enough?Like my example a 70s ERF, and thousands of those types of trucks on the M6 in those days, compared with vastly cleaner vehicles today on the same M6, are one hell of a vast mega improvement, in terms of achieving much cleaner air, …but they are STILL moving the goalposts with stricter regs, Euro 5 or whatever tf stage we are at now, …
Is it not time to say ‘‘Job done in that department, now we’ll concentrate on another culprit industry’’.
That was part of my point, how much [zb] shorter do they want the grass cut, and is it truly necessary in reality?
Aircraft are disproportionately “bolloxing up the planet”. See my post above.
But taxing them and their fuel would be political suicide for any party.
Put tax on fuel on freight UK aircraft today and Heathrow would shrink as Schiphol expands. London and the UK poorer and no difference in pollution.
Put tax on fuel for passenger flights and who would vote for the party that quadrupled or more the cost of a weekend in Vienna or a rave in Ibiza, or a fortnight`s holiday in Florida?
It aint about to happen anytime soon. And for our children and grand-children thats a real problem.
Punchy Dan:
Euro 4 is easy it’s just a particle exhaust trap nothing to go wrong , it’s 5 & 6 where the trouble starts .
E4 (2006) is just an SCR cat early ones only had one nox sensor, later they went to two nox sensors.
E5 (2008) was pretty much the same as E4 still with just the SCR cat but also added two temperature sensors.
E6 (2014) is where the DOC SCR DPF EGR and Ammonia car come into play, very very clever very complicated to fix and the main delaers still ahvent got their heads around them yet.
The DPF aka particulate trap is whats causing many of the issuss as they do go worng a lot and have a limited lifespan, our Scanias have just started to go wrong at 300k, the Dafs are still good at 600k so far!
How does removing adblue from the equasion improve mileage?
Understandably bypassing the Egr does loads, as the engine is breathing oxygen instead of its own exhaust, but isn’t adblue injected into the exhaust?